How did I2a-Din get to the Balkans?

How did I2a-Din get to the Balkans?


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Per YFull there are new sub-branches under Y66192, Y182158 and below that Y182752. Greeks are in every Y18331 sub-branch as well as Y18331*. What is your opinion as to when Y18331 entered Greece, as seen by the samples today? Do you think it was a one-time migration or did it happen in different events?
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I continue to stand by my last hypothesis. Namely, for I-Y3120 to have been pushed into Greece after the destruction of the Celtic settlement of Tylis in 212 BCE. They would have probably re-settled somewhere within Greek Macedonia. After some 100 years we have the creation and TMRCA of Ι-Υ18331 per YFull.

Then again, i don't discard the hypothesis of @Aspurg. It could also be Bastarnae who carried I-Y3120 in Greek Macedonia, at approximately 180-170 BCE. They were also probably a Celtic tribe originally, especially during that early time that concerns us.
 
Per YFull there are new sub-branches under Y66192, Y182158 and below that Y182752. Greeks are in every Y18331 sub-branch as well as Y18331*. What is your opinion as to when Y18331 entered Greece, as seen by the samples today? Do you think it was a one-time migration or did it happen in different events?
View attachment 12055
It turns out my supposition was correct after all, although in part. I am indeed also a member of I-Y18331. Though to my surprise i am not under the same subclade (I-A7134>Y32624) as the sample from Messenia (Antonopoulos - N80837/YF04184), which is where my paternal family originates from, specifically Gargalianoi. I am I-A2512*, namely ancestral for both I-A7134 and I-A10959. Right now there are only two confirmed people with that designation. One is me, and the second is a Greek sample from the island of Thassos (the so-called Kavala sample in YFull) in the north Aegean, namely Oikonomidis (or Economides) - 493284/YF07857. There is a third Greek sample that is included in the chart of the "I2a Y-Haplogroup" project in FTDNA as I-A2512*, namely Flytzanis - 887728 from the island of Fournoi, but he is unconfirmed and could very likely be under I-A10959 (for which he hasn't been tested, only for I-A7134). I personally went with the "I2a-M423 Panel" by YSEQ.

 
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I continue to stand by my last hypothesis. Namely, for I-Y3120 to have been pushed into Greece after the destruction of the Celtic settlement of Tylis in 212 BCE. They would have probably re-settled somewhere within Greek Macedonia. After some 100 years we have the creation and TMRCA of Ι-Υ18331 per YFull.

Then again, i don't discard the hypothesis of @Aspurg. It could also be Bastarnae who carried I-Y3120 in Greek Macedonia, at approximately 180-170 BCE. They were also probably a Celtic tribe originally, especially during that early time that concerns us.

So do you think that I-Y3120 was Celtic, and I-Y18331 was Bastarnae. Then what about I-S17250? They get separated from the Bastarnea, and became membes "local" Celtic tribes in Northern parts (todays Poland and similar areas)?
 
So do you think that I-Y3120 was Celtic, and I-Y18331 was Bastarnae. Then what about I-S17250? They get separated from the Bastarnea, and became membes "local" Celtic tribes in Northern parts (todays Poland and similar areas)?
I am not a proponent of Bastarnae as a proxy of at least I-Y3120 > Y18331. I first read it from @Aspurg, and then i also read it in another thread from another member (can't recall his/her name). I personally have objections with it, specifically for I-Y18331, although i am not sure about I-Y3120's other three major subclades. As for I-Y3120 in general, i do view it as Celtic in origin. I believe it expanded both towards eastern Europe (could be with the Bastarnae) and S-Balkans/Greece (i am a proponent of the Celts of Tylis) during the 3rd-2nd centuries BCE. Its predominantly Slavic subclades, namely I-Z17855, I-Y4460, and I-S17250, formed in eastern Europe and participated in the proto-Slavic ethnogenesis, while an independent migration towards S-Balkans/Greece formed I-Y18331. Here is also a nice Y-Tree i found the other day, to give you a broader perspective of I-P37.

I-P37-Y-Tree.png
 
I am not a proponent of Bastarnae as a proxy of at least I-Y3120 > Y18331. I first read it from @Aspurg, and then i also read it in another thread from another member (can't recall his/her name). I personally have objections with it, specifically for I-Y18331, although i am not sure about I-Y3120's other three major subclades. As for I-Y3120 in general, i do view it as Celtic in origin. I believe it expanded both towards eastern Europe (could be with the Bastarnae) and S-Balkans/Greece (i am a proponent of the Celts of Tylis) during the 3rd-2nd centuries BCE. Its predominantly Slavic subclades, namely I-Z17855, I-Y4460, and I-S17250, formed in eastern Europe and participated in the proto-Slavic ethnogenesis, while an independent migration towards S-Balkans/Greece formed I-Y18331. Here is also a nice Y-Tree i found the other day, to give you a broader perspective of I-P37.

I-P37-Y-Tree.png

Wow, what a fast answer, thank you!

I know this tree, but my pervertion is connect hgs with archeological cultures, and this picture don't mention any of them.
 
So do you think that I-Y3120 was Celtic, and I-Y18331 was Bastarnae. Then what about I-S17250? They get separated from the Bastarnea, and became membes "local" Celtic tribes in Northern parts (todays Poland and similar areas)?



Which Celtic? I guess there would be something of that branch across the British Isles that is, in the areas where Celtic migrated. It is a mutation which is separated from southern Poland I2a I-Y3120 and reached Greece via Ukraine or Carpathian area. In the future it will be known more precisely. What we can say now (without archaeogenetic data) is that source of this mutation is in the area of later White Croatia.
 
It looks like E-V13 was the I2a2-Din of the Bronze Age.
 
Wow, what a fast answer, thank you!

I know this tree, but my pervertion is connect hgs with archeological cultures, and this picture don't mention any of them.
As aforementioned, i view the I-Y18331 formation in association with the Celts of Tylis. Specifically i believe that following the invasion of Celts in Greece, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_settlement_of_Southeast_Europe#Invasions_of_Greece, and namely after the Battle of Lysimachia in 277 BCE, Celts under their leader Comontorius settled in Thrace and established the kingdom of Tylis in what is now western Bulgaria. The kingdom was destroyed by Thracians in 212 BCE, and it is my hypothesis that those Celtic inhabitants took refugee within Greek Macedonia, where some 100 years later (per YFull's Y-Tree) we have the formation of I-Y18331.

1024px-TribesinThrace.jpg


As for I-Z17855, I-Y4460, and I-S17250, which are predominantly Slavic, i believe Bastarnae do seem like a reasonable proxy of I-Y3120. Then again, i also find the Przeworsk culture (olive green) as a reasonable proxy of it (I-Y3120) likewise. More specifically, Przeworsk culture (green) > Zarubintsy culture (red) in the second image below.

Archeological_cultures_in_Northern_and_Central_Europe_at_the_late_pre-Roman_Iron_Age.png


Przeworsk_culture.png


As for I-Y3120, i believe it was formed in the region of southern Poland, which did have a Celtic presence. You can read more of the relative archaeology here,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poland_in_antiquity#Celtic_peoples.

Prior of that, I-CTS10228 and its subclade I-Y3120 seem very rooted to the region of the prior Neolithic "Western Linear Pottery" culture. I am not saying that those clades were specifically associated with it since they arose later, but their I-L621 ancestor seems to have been part of it.

560px-European-middle-neolithic-en.svg.png
 
@Demetrios, amazing, thank you!

EDIT: interestingly, on the Wikipedia article the Przeworsk culture mentioned as local with Celtic elements, but in the Hungarian archeological literature it's mentioned as Germanic / Vandal culture.
 
@Demetrios, amazing, thank you!

EDIT: interestingly, on the Wikipedia article the Przeworsk culture mentioned as local with Celtic elements, but in the Hungarian archeological literature it's mentioned as Germanic / Vandal culture.
Yes, i have also read that it had Celtic elements, and that its also associated with Germanics and proto-Slavs. It seems the Celtic elements originate form the La Tène culture and the Germanic from the Jastorf and Pomeranian cultures. By the way, the Pomeranian culture has also been associated with Bastarnae. Bastarnae did have a Germanic element (along with the Celtic) as well, therefore i wouldn't exclude their association with it, at least in part.
 
Alternatively, I2-L621 lineages could have lived in relative isolation from the mainstream Proto-Indo-European society somewhere around Ukraine, Poland or Belarus, then as the centuries and millennia passed, would have blended with the predominantly R1a populations around them. The resulting amalgam would have become the ancestors of the Proto-Slavs.

There are no haplotypes within Croatian genetics which would showed links with the Celts.

The Proto-Celtic haplogroup R1b-L21 is now known to have arrived in Ireland around 2000 BCE

Therefore if branch I-Y3120 has something to with the Celts that would be evident in the genetic of the Proto-Celts that is, in their descendants(England etc). There is no such evidence. Yfull also does not prove this, nor public autosomal results as far as Croats and Slavic peoples are concerned.

Is there any Proto-Celts, Celts Y dna in Croats probably yes (some R1b branches), but it is a very weak connection.

Therefore, all mutations behind I-Y3120 have connections with southern Poland and southeastern Ukraine ie Proto-Slavs. For concrete confirmation we need archaeogenetics. And when the merger with the R1a Slavs in that area was, we still don't know.
 
There are no haplotypes within Croatian genetics which would showed links with the Celts.

Therefore if branch I-Y3120 has something to with the Celts that would be evident in the genetic of the Proto-Celts that is, in their descendants(England etc). There is no such evidence. Yfull also does not prove this, nor public autosomal results as far as Croats and Slavic peoples are concerned.

Is there any Proto-Celts, Celts Y dna in Croats probably yes (some R1b branches), but it is a very weak connection.

Therefore, all mutations behind I-Y3120 have connections with southern Poland and southeastern Ukraine ie Proto-Slavs. For concrete confirmation we need archaeogenetics. And when the merger with the R1a Slavs in that area was, we still don't know.
We don't need any I-Y3120 in England. We have samples in YFull's Y-Tree from France and Germany belonging to I-Y3120's sister clade, namely I-Y81696, and we also have a I-Y3120* from southern Poland. To be precise, the French sample is from Bas-Rhin (northeastern France), the German sample from Baden-Württemberg (southwestern Germany), and the Polish sample is from Podkarpackie Voivodeship (southeastern Poland). This suggests that I-CST10228 (and its two aforementioned subclades) formed in central Europe between these two regions, and if combined with its TMRCA of 1400 BCE the most probable link between these two regions was the Celtic element, and as aforementioned in a prior comment southern Poland did have a Celtic presence (that can probably be traced back to the Urnfield culture dated 1300-750 BCE). This is also suggested by SNP tracker models shared in the previous two pages, where clades ancestral to I-Y3120 are shown located north of the Alps. You can also see it in the Y-Tree of I-P37 i shared today. Also, you cannot claim that I-Y3120 is purely Slavic, when one of its four subclades, namely I-Y18331, is evidently of southern Balkanic origin (largely Greek and Jewish in members). And judging by the formation and TMRCA of I-Y18331 and its main subclades, it precedes the Slavic migration in the Balkans (South Slavs) by some 600 years, while at the same time it compliments hypotheses that associate its arrival with either the Celtic invasion/migration of the southern Balkans or the Bastarnae. You can only claim proto-Slavic participation of I-Y3120 for its other three subclades, namely I-Z17855, I-Y4460, and I-S17250, and even this probably due to assimilation of I-Y3120. As for the autosomal aspect, you can easily explain absence of Celtic influence if you consider the evolution of I-Y3120 from a founder-effect perspective. Then again, i am not that familiar with the autosomal profiles of Slavs to rule out Celtic influence.
 

We don't need any I-Y3120 in England. We have samples in YFull's Y-Tree from France and Germany belonging to I-Y3120's sister clade, namely I-Y81696

It is not possible that Celts come to Britain and bring only one haplotype from where they coming. They must bring and other haplotypes if this other haplotypes exist among them , but this is not case.

eupedia
The Proto-Celtic haplogroup R1b-L21 is now known to have arrived in Ireland around 2000 BCE

If I-Y3120 mutation was from France or Germany then the Celts must have mutations in that branch, and even if they have that mutations what this have to do with I-Y3120 mutation which they do not have?

and we also have a I-Y3120* from southern Poland

Yes, that's what I'm talking about. if the Celts coming to southern Poland I guess they bring their main R1b genetic. For now, Croats do not have this genetics. As far as I know, Poles also have less of this R1b branches, and if they have, they exist more in the northern parts of Poland.

To be precise, the French sample is from Bas-Rhin (northeastern France), the German sample from Baden-Württemberg (southwestern Germany), and the Polish sample is from Podkarpackie Voivodeship (southeastern Poland). This suggests that I-CST10228 (and its two aforementioned subclades) formed in central Europe between these two regions, and if combined with its TMRCA of 1400 BCE the most probable link between these two regions was the Celtic element, and as aforementioned in a prior comment southern Poland did have a Celtic presence (that can probably be traced back to the Urnfield culture dated 1300-750 BCE).

For now, genetics does not show any connections.

eupedia

Alternatively, I2-L621 lineages could have lived in relative isolation from the mainstream Proto-Indo-European society somewhere around Ukraine, Poland or Belarus, then as the centuries and millennia passed, would have blended with the predominantly R1a populations around them.



This is also suggested by SNP tracker models shared in the previous two pages, where clades ancestral to I-Y3120 are shown located north of the Alps. You can also see it in the Y-Tree of I-P37 i shared today. Also, you cannot claim that I-Y3120 is purely Slavic, when one of its four subclades, namely I-Y18331, is evidently of southern Balkanic origin (largely Greek and Jewish in members).

When we find out in which period R1a exactly occurs in southern Poland then we will be able to say something more about the Greek branch as well, whether it has anything to do with the Slavs, etc.

wiki

The Proto-Slavic
homeland is the area of Slavic settlement in Central and Eastern Europe during the first millennium AD,
For now Greek branch is formed 2100 ybp. That person probably leaves before the arrival of the R1a tribes to that area. However, it is still one of the relatives of Croatian ancestors. Considering that Croatian name is mentioned in the 3th century(Azov), there is a possibility that our common ancestor, 300 or 400 years earlier also called himself a Croat, since there were later White Croats or Croats in that area.

And judging by the formation and TMRCA of I-Y18331 and its main subclades, it precedes the Slavic migration in the Balkans (South Slavs) by some 600 years, while at the same time it compliments hypotheses that associate its arrival with either the Celtic invasion/migration of the southern Balkans or the Bastarnae.

This mutation could come with anyone to Greece and the Balkans but still it has its source in the area where later White Croats ie Croats live. For now, archaeologists or historians do not mention that White Croats would have connection with Celts or Bastarnaes.

You can only claim proto-Slavic participation of I-Y3120 for its other three subclades, namely I-Z17855, I-Y4460, and I-S17250, and even this probably due to assimilation of I-Y3120.


I-S17250 branch is brother mutation of
I-Y18331, since the Croats do not have it apparently that person had moved from one common house, and given that data from YFull show Ukraine and Russia it is probably and possible direction of movement to Greece.
 
Demetrios,

While many scenarios can exist, we have to keep in mind, Y3120, has a TMRCA of 2100ybp.

Alot of people forget that this doesn't mean some Y3120 are more distant than others.

All Y3120 men share the same exact ancestor around 100BC.

While the line could have slipped into different cultures(which I do think is the case with Y18331), there cannot be that many different tribes for Y3120 to descend directly within such a period between the late antiquity and early medieval.

I just dont see how one man around 100BC could possibly give birth to sons that are supposedly descended from ancient Celts, Germans and Slavs.

If Y3120 had a much older TMRCA I could see that being a distinct possibility.

Hopefully an ancient sample comes up with Y18331 around 100BC to get a better idea.

I, similarly belong to a Albanian branch of L1029 not found elsewhere. Though, the branch is suspected between 1100-1200ybp. May go up or down after my 2 distant matches do Dante. Maybe somewhere there's one with a more distant branch.

In all probability it still arrived with Proto Slavs or maybe a assimilated guy into Goths.
 
An advice.. I see around some forums a bunch of people who clearly haven't got a clue about Y-DNA, they discovered the YFull, and voila they are some experts over night... YFull's tree is not the whole picture, it is missing plenty of results... In this instance this I-Y3120* (I-FT76511) Pole has relatives in Serbs. They share 6 SNP's at FTDNA, most likely their distance is migration period. The two Serbs in I-FT256359 share 3 SNP's, while having plenty of private novels so they separated over a 1000 years ago..

FTDNA introduced a charge for downloading the raw BAM file so discrepancy increased, these Serbs refused to upload to YFull, because they didn't see the benefit for extra money..

Y18331 has high basal diversity in Greece, so carrier of Y18331 must have been a Greek, of some foreign origin, probably Bastarnae.

To add, I see another new clade, Lithuanian I-V19, parallel to the others. So that again clearly indicates Northern origins. This Greek clade too has Northern origins but due to TMRCA it can't be Slavic.
 
There are no haplotypes within Croatian genetics which would showed links with the Celts.



Therefore if branch I-Y3120 has something to with the Celts that would be evident in the genetic of the Proto-Celts that is, in their descendants(England etc). There is no such evidence. Yfull also does not prove this, nor public autosomal results as far as Croats and Slavic peoples are concerned.

Is there any Proto-Celts, Celts Y dna in Croats probably yes (some R1b branches), but it is a very weak connection.

Therefore, all mutations behind I-Y3120 have connections with southern Poland and southeastern Ukraine ie Proto-Slavs. For concrete confirmation we need archaeogenetics. And when the merger with the R1a Slavs in that area was, we still don't know.

Proto-Celts were not exclusively R1b or predominately R1b necessarily.
I don't know about specific subclades and I don't care that much but at least there is I2a-P37 in Ireland, for example and it is higher in Southwest, where, for example Ogham inscriptions were also more common.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogham_inscription#/media/File:Ogham_map.png

Strabo makes a distinction between Kelti and the 'people of Britain'. How the 'people of Britain' are described?

"The men of Britain are taller than the Celti, and not so yellow-haired, although their bodies are of looser build. The following is an indication of their size: I myself, in Rome, saw mere lads towering as much as half a foot above the tallest people in the city, although they were bandy-legged and presented no fair lines anywhere else in their figure. Their habits are in part like those of the Celti, but in part more simple and barbaric — so much so that, on account of their inexperience, some of them, although well supplied with milk, make no cheese; and they have no experience in gardening or other agricultural pursuits. And they have powerful chieftains in their country. For the purposes of war they use chariots for the most part, just as some of the Celti do. The forests are their cities; for they fence in a
spacious circular enclosure with trees which they have felled,
and in that enclosure make huts for themselves and also pen up their cattle — not, however, with the purpose of staying a long time.
"​


See below the list of Irish cheeses. How many are from County Cork and how many are from other regions of Ireland?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Irish_cheeses

There may be some archaic elements in Insular Celtic imo but, from a typological standpoint they have many innovations while Slavic languages, for example, seem to be the most conservative typologically all things considered. Is that a coincidence? In the borders of Croatia and Slovenia (?) there are dialects that retain the dual? Also Sorbian does it? Why there is no equally conservative language in the West?

It seems reasonable to think that Insular Celtic was likely transformed by the non-IE (or at least non-Celtic) language spoken by the L21 people.

Are the Kelti of Strabo in any way similar culturally to proto-Slavs? Modern Croats? What would you think?
 

Proto-Celts were not exclusively R1b or predominately R1b necessarily.
I don't know about specific subclades and I don't care that much but at least there is I2a-P37 in Ireland, for example and it is higher in Southwest, where, for example Ogham inscriptions were also more common.

Characteristic of the Celts is R1b, whether they have some other genetics probably yes, but they do not have mutations in I-Y3120 branch which proves that there was no mixing.

Strabo makes a distinction between Kelti and the 'people of Britain'. How the 'people of Britain' are described?

See below the list of Irish cheeses.

There may be some archaic elements in Insular Celtic imo but, from a typological standpoint they have many innovations while Slavic languages

for example, seem to be the most conservative typologically all things considered. Is that a coincidence?

In the borders of Croatia and Slovenia (?) there are dialects that retain the dual? Also Sorbian does it? Why there is no equally conservative language in the West?

This has nothing to do with the Y dna.

It seems reasonable to think that Insular Celtic was likely transformed by the non-IE (or at least non-Celtic) language spoken by the L21 people.

The language has nothing to do with Y dna. If Y dna in this case have something about it, this must be seen in genetics. You can see that in Croat case. I2a non-Indo-European genetics and tribe became a speaker of the Indo-European language (White Croats). And it is visible in R1a genetics. If there was any mixing of I2a I-Y3120 peoples with Celts it must be seen in genetics. Therefore, it is not visible and the case is closed for now.

Are the Kelti of Strabo in any way similar culturally to proto-Slavs? Modern Croats? What would you think?

It is a question which has nothing to do with Y genetics. At this point we need stick to the genetic data that we know and the historical sources which we have. There is also archeology that shows no connection. For now there is simply no such evidence and we must accept that.
 
It is not possible that Celts come to Britain and bring only one haplotype from where they coming. They must bring and other haplotypes if this other haplotypes exist among them , but this is not case.

eupedia

If I-Y3120 mutation was from France or Germany then the Celts must have mutations in that branch, and even if they have that mutations what this have to do with I-Y3120 mutation which they do not have?

Yes, that's what I'm talking about. if the Celts coming to southern Poland I guess they bring their main R1b genetic. For now, Croats do not have this genetics. As far as I know, Poles also have less of this R1b branches, and if they have, they exist more in the northern parts of Poland.

For now, genetics does not show any connections.

eupedia

When we find out in which period R1a exactly occurs in southern Poland then we will be able to say something more about the Greek branch as well, whether it has anything to do with the Slavs, etc.

wiki

For now Greek branch is formed 2100 ybp. That person probably leaves before the arrival of the R1a tribes to that area. However, it is still one of the relatives of Croatian ancestors. Considering that Croatian name is mentioned in the 3th century(Azov), there is a possibility that our common ancestor, 300 or 400 years earlier also called himself a Croat, since there were later White Croats or Croats in that area.

This mutation could come with anyone to Greece and the Balkans but still it has its source in the area where later White Croats ie Croats live. For now, archaeologists or historians do not mention that White Croats would have connection with Celts or Bastarnaes.

I-S17250 branch is brother mutation of
I-Y18331, since the Croats do not have it apparently that person had moved from one common house, and given that data from YFull show Ukraine and Russia it is probably and possible direction of movement to Greece.
It's not a matter of having brought more haplotypes and trying to identify them. I-Y3120 was one that increased considerably in frequency through a founder-effect phenomenon. Now, trying to identify haplogroups that might not have had the same luck is irrelevant to me. We already know there have been historical movements of Celts and Bastarnae both towards eastern Europe and the southern Balkans. It's not something we are trying to prove through haplogroups.

I didn't write that I-Y3120 is from France/Germany. I have written already that i consider it to have formed in southern Poland, based on the available data that i can evaluate.

How do you jump from ancient southern Poland to modern Croats, and assume that the same haplogroups brought there by the Celts or the Bastarnae would also be found in modern Croats in any noticeable frequency if at all? You should view I-Y3120 independently and try to explain it using the available data. The main question is who is the most likely population that could have expanded I-Y3120 to eastern Europe and at the same time have carried it all the way to Greece, during approximately the 3rd-2nd centuries BCE? I still believe Celts and Bastarnae are the most probable original carriers, that were eventually assimilated by the people they travelled to.

That Eupedia quote is from Maciamo. He simply shares suggestions (not just the one you cropped) about the presence of I-L621 during the Neolithic/Chalcolithic. Furthermore, that Wikipedia quote you also cropped and excluded the second part. Here it is whole, "The Proto-Slavic homeland is the area of Slavic settlement in Central and Eastern Europe during the first millennium AD, with its precise location debated by archaeologists, ethnographers and historians.". I agree with that quote, why would i disagree?

This mutation could come with anyone to Greece and the Balkans, yes, and that anyone was probably either the Celts or the Bastarnae, judging from the relevant dates, the current distribution of the samples, and the actual recorded history.

From Wikipedia (citing the Barrington Atlas of the Greek and Roman World), "Bastarnae were settled in a vast arc stretching around the northern and eastern flanks of the Carpathians from south-east Poland to the Danube Delta. The larger group inhabited the northern and eastern slopes of the Carpathians and the region between the Prut and Dnieper rivers (modern-day Moldova/western Ukraine), while a separate group (the Peucini, Sidoni and Atmoni) dwelt in and north of the Danube Delta region.". How do you find it difficult then that it could have been picked up or assimilated by proto-Slavs or White Croats?

Last, concerning the samples of Ukraine and Russia that are shown in YFull, you should know that the Russian sample is not Slavic, but belongs to the ethnic group of Chuvash, a Turkic ethnic group from the Volga region, and of course shares his clade with some other Greek samples. I know the guy and have exchanged a number of emails with him. I also know his autosomal profile, and it shows that he clusters with Chuvash. The clade where that Ukrainian sample belongs to though is the only that it demands some more attention, considering that this clade also has a Russian sample from Siberia that isn't visible in YFull (only in FTDNA), but even here we have Greeks as well (you can read some about it in this following article by the admins of the I-P37 project in FTDNA - http://i2aproject.blogspot.com/2018/11/a-new-russian-and-greek-in-new-branch.html, as well as in YFull). That clade can easily be explained if we go with the Bastarnae hypothesis. For example, Bastarnae carrying I-Y3120 or I-Y18331 could have settled in Greek Macedonia after the Dardanian-Bastarnae War of 179-175 BCE, and a member of that family belonging to the second or third generation could have chosen to move back to his forefather's homeland (between the Carpathian Mountains and the river Dnieper chiefly) alone, while the rest remained in Greece. It seems very reasonable to me.
 
Demetrios,
While many scenarios can exist, we have to keep in mind, Y3120, has a TMRCA of 2100ybp.
Alot of people forget that this doesn't mean some Y3120 are more distant than others.
All Y3120 men share the same exact ancestor around 100BC.
While the line could have slipped into different cultures(which I do think is the case with Y18331), there cannot be that many different tribes for Y3120 to descend directly within such a period between the late antiquity and early medieval.
I just dont see how one man around 100BC could possibly give birth to sons that are supposedly descended from ancient Celts, Germans and Slavs.
If Y3120 had a much older TMRCA I could see that being a distinct possibility.
Hopefully an ancient sample comes up with Y18331 around 100BC to get a better idea.
I, similarly belong to a Albanian branch of L1029 not found elsewhere. Though, the branch is suspected between 1100-1200ybp. May go up or down after my 2 distant matches do Dante. Maybe somewhere there's one with a more distant branch.
In all probability it still arrived with Proto Slavs or maybe a assimilated guy into Goths.
I know that the current TMRCA of I-Y3120 is 2100 ybp mate. But you should take those dates with a grain of salt, they aren't absolute. Hence why we are suggesting models that can be complimented by historical events as well. To be precise, the current TMRCA of YFull for I-Y3120, as established by their mathematical formula, is 2131 ybp, and through the rounding of numbers that they do they list 2100 ybp. Nonetheless you should know that this date has changed over the years. We used to have 2300 ybp as a TMRCA (as is visible here - https://lundiak.wordpress.com/2015/01/09/i2a1b2a1-aka-i-cts10228/ - it shows up at least until 30th July 2017). These dates are simply age estimations and fluid. The mathematical formula YFull uses (it's more than one actually) is based on an assumed mutation rate of 144.41 years, and an assumed age of 60 years for living providers of YFull samples, among other calculations (more about them here - https://www.yfull.com/faq/how-does-yfull-determine-formed-age-tmrca-and-ci/ and here - https://www.yfull.com/faq/what-yfulls-age-estimation-methodology/). I believe it does leave room for assuming earlier dates as well, especially when you consider that those earlier dates were not very long ago also part of their Y-Tree.

But i didn't write that there were many tribes that spread I-Y3120, such as Celts, Germans, and Slavs. It was obviously originally part of one group, during the last three centuries of the 1st millennium BCE. I personally think that it was either the Celts or the Bastarnae (they had both Celtic and Germanic elements themselves). These would have been eventually assimilated by the Slavs (among others), and remain there or expand elsewhere with them.

Last, it couldn't have arrived with proto-Slavs when you consider the scarcity of Slavic samples in that branch. If i count correctly (by considering both YFull and FTDNA) i believe there are only three Slavic samples. One is from North Macedonia and shares the subclade with a number of other Greek samples and a single Albanian as well, therefore i would say that he is assimilated. And the other two are an Ukrainian and a Russian from Siberia, both belonging to I-Y158862/BY182587 along with two other Greek samples. Other than that, Greek samples are to be found in every branch (with the exception of the Jewish ones) of I-Y18331, which shows the greatest variance. And there is also a Greek I-Y18331*.
 
An advice.. I see around some forums a bunch of people who clearly haven't got a clue about Y-DNA, they discovered the YFull, and voila they are some experts over night... YFull's tree is not the whole picture, it is missing plenty of results... In this instance this I-Y3120* (I-FT76511) Pole has relatives in Serbs. They share 6 SNP's at FTDNA, most likely their distance is migration period. The two Serbs in I-FT256359 share 3 SNP's, while having plenty of private novels so they separated over a 1000 years ago..

FTDNA introduced a charge for downloading the raw BAM file so discrepancy increased, these Serbs refused to upload to YFull, because they didn't see the benefit for extra money..

Y18331 has high basal diversity in Greece, so carrier of Y18331 must have been a Greek, of some foreign origin, probably Bastarnae.

To add, I see another new clade, Lithuanian I-V19, parallel to the others. So that again clearly indicates Northern origins. This Greek clade too has Northern origins but due to TMRCA it can't be Slavic.
I agree with what you write, and to tell you the truth i myself begin to incline more towards the Bastarnae hypothesis with this last small exchange i had. As i wrote to @hrvat22, that I-Y158862/BY182587 subclade can easily be explained through the Bastarnae, with them carrying I-Y3120 or I-Y18331 in Greek Macedonia after the Dardanian-Bastarnae War of 179-175 BCE, and a member of the second or third generation choosing to move back to his forefathers' homeland (between the Carpathian Mountains and the river Dnieper chiefly) alone, while the rest remained in Greece. Then again, considering that their TMRCA is 1150 ybp, i wouldn't personally exclude Greek influence. Take note that Ukraine never ceased having a Greek presence, and even today is home to a Greek minority of 91,000 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greeks_in_Ukraine), although they are mostly Pontic Greeks. I would need to establish contact with those individuals and see whether i can extract any meaningful information from them. I haven't even contacted the Greek members of their clade yet.

As for the other clades you mention, namely I-FT76511 and I-V19. So, we are now looking at a total of six I-Y3120 branches? Have i understood correctly?
 

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