News Article on Wang Paper - PIE is Anatolian again?

Certainly, EHG levels in Armenia declined massively over the Kura-Araxes period, only to rebound as it came to an end.
There are signs in autosomal DNA that people with a similar profile moved along or across the Black Sea and admixed with Ukrainian Steppe dwellers during the 4th millennium BC.
What is to say they did not take their language (or features of it) with them as they moved out?
 
That's really a very specific date. I never noticed.

I do think such a delay between Indo-Hittite and LPIE is problematic though, while a general Neolithic timeframe isn't necessairly. Perhaps something like the Ivanov model wherein only Balto-Slavic spreads from the steppe should be reconsidered. That would mean Greek, Germanic etc. from West Asia.


Indeed. Very precise date. And on top of it, the hypothesis of a south Caucasus migration to Steppe by these dates is called the Iain Mathieson 2018 hypothesis, the same Mathieson that, by the few times he himself engage Eurogenes, must have watched me in endless battles in Eurogenes defending my Shulaverian Hypothesis. Really? Iain Mathieson Hypothesis?
And just give it enough months and this crap of Krauser 4900BC is going to show its ugly face. Oh "they knew all along", "look at our slide" ...

Split of indo-hittite by 4800BC? dont think is problematic.
Can you point me to a good Ivanov summary? interesting. Because see my slide 8 (4000bc) at https://shulaverianhypothesis.blogs.sapo.pt/ --- its not news that there was a Gulmenita-Hamangia-pre-cucuteni swift move of people that was not much later seen engaging the western steppes of Ukraine. Several groups were PIE.
 
You're getting me wrong.....just I was thinking of something more detailed or new data, just that.
Yes, that I truly think there is kindof an embargo. Even Wang et al was from 4500BC, weird how Neolithic South Caucasus and extensive 4500BC-3900bC south balkans are being saved for "later" papers. Lets see if it isnt all a scripted narrative.
 
Do you know how much grievances I had to take over the years, and even recently here at Eupedia by some "Linguistics experts" that fall short of call me an idiot because PIE can never be that earlier? --- well MPI in the voice of Gray himself is saying it out loud in the video, isn't he??
Gray himself (et al) has been saying that since 2003. This is a slightly adjusted version of his 2014 scheme. Lots of people disagreed with him then and lots of people still do.
 
you're kidding right?

- At the beginning of this thread you have a Map with dates from Johannes krauser, where he even goes as far as writing 6900 years ago instead of 7000 Years ago. Why?

The why is because Gray published this study with that exact same date in 2003:
cidHbPe.jpg


Was he also copying you back then?
 
—————
double post
 
... and they make fun of me for watching Ancient Aliens, ...
I doubt the Conspiracy Theory.
 
the funny thing is that these scholars are not credible when they root for the Anatolian or South of Caucasus thesis ( personally I do not believe in both by the way ) but they are credible to many "keyboard warrior" when they speak about 90% replacement in britain or the "iberian massacre".....seems that here some kind of a racial bias is involved.......

it's your right to believe what you want, but you don't have the right to call those who think otherwise racists
and please, stick to the subject of this thread
 
The why is because Gray published this study with that exact same date in 2003:
cidHbPe.jpg


Was he also copying you back then?


Fair enough.
However this image does not make 6900 BP any centrality... but it answers the date figure itself and not 5000BC I give you that. its important to note he published 20 dates, as an agriculture PIE origin where divergence occur 8700 year ago for Anatolian, 7900, 7300, 6900, 6500, 6100... What made them choose 4900 now? what made them make 8000BP and 6900BP? I don't think is a coincidence. 2019 papers will show either way. Remember this exchange if there is a paper published specifically for Neolithic south Caucasus that proves me right.
 
this forum is in English and stop labelling others racists

I second that.

This refusal to accept the results of population genetics because they don't fit preconceived myths or agendas is idiotic, as is the idea that all the population geneticists in the world are engaged in some sort of massive conspiracy.
 
Gray himself (et al) has been saying that since 2003. This is a slightly adjusted version of his 2014 scheme. Lots of people disagreed with him then and lots of people still do.

Obviously, he must have seen an internet comment by Olympic Mons proposing that very thing in 2002.

Dienekes clearly got all his ideas from him too.
 
After giving me infractions, one after the other, that even got me banned for weeks here, one as recent as yesterday for manifesting my surprise for the kind of incivility you got way with against a another commenter, the least, the least you can do is not to comment my posts.

I am truly refraining from writing to you what you deserve to read.

Why not just stop acting as if you're some kind of genius prophet for once then - when odds are (over 50%) you're incorrect anyway. Anthony also clearly states Nalchik was completely different to Shulaveri-Shomu, who he sees as proto-Kartvelian; and we know Nalchik or similar cultures (Orlovka etc.) are likely the major source of CHG in Yamnaya (Nalchik = Steppe Eneolithic).

Anybody claiming to have solved the PIE problem doesn't fully know what he's talking about. I've never claimed to have known the answers, and what's more I often change my mind (I don't believe in a Balkan M269 to West Asian L23 to Caucasian Z2103 procession of IE anymore, something I had believed for a while).
 
Why not just stop acting as if you're some kind of genius prophet for once then - when odds are (over 50%) you're incorrect anyway. Anthony also clearly states Nalchik was completely different to Shulaveri-Shomu, who he sees as proto-Kartvelian; and we know Nalchik or similar cultures (Orlovka etc.) are likely the major source of CHG in Yamnaya (Nalchik = Steppe Eneolithic).

Not a good time to play hero and come to the rescue.... Grow up.
 
Angela has minor harsh feelings against Northern types if I'm honest (which isn't so bad), but she obviously isn't a racial supremacist of any form and otw is open-minded. As for the undeserved infractions/censorship argument - I'm sure there's some truth to it given my experience, but I don't really care as it probably isn't the case based on how you speak that you were being controversial yet mostly logical.

You'd get kicked out of a court of law for speaking unintelligible drivel, by the way.
 
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Btw it would be really nice if Dienekes returned to blogging. I wonder what he's thinking about PIE origins now.
 
As autosomal analysis suggests that:
1. All IE-speaking populations best fit predominantly with the East Balkan Chalcolithic,
2. East Balkan Chalcolithic populations were predominantly of Anatolian origin with minority Suvorovo EHG admixture, and
3. Suvorovo were present in the East Balkans/Carpathians, having admixed with EEF for at least several hundred years before moving out,
- it would not be surprising if the ancestors of IE populations had adopted a language principally derived from Anatolia.

Although of course, we are unlikely to find out for sure which languages these people spoke, or indeed whether they were multi-lingual.
 
As autosomal analysis suggests that:
1. All IE-speaking populations best fit predominantly with the East Balkan Chalcolithic,
2. East Balkan Chalcolithic populations were predominantly of Anatolian origin with minority Suvorovo EHG admixture, and
3. Suvorovo were present in the East Balkans/Carpathians, having admixed with EEF for at least several hundred years before moving out,
- it would not be surprising if the ancestors of IE populations had adopted a language principally derived from Anatolia.

Although of course, we are unlikely to find out for sure which languages these people spoke, or indeed whether they were multi-lingual.

Fair enough. But East Balkan Chalcolithic populations were, as you point out, the result of a long period of admixing.

If the populations further west end up looking genetically like them, it means the original influx of steppe genes into western Europe can't have come from those already heavily admixed East Balkan pops. Unetice is much closer to Yamna than, say, Mycenians. So the steppe people who moved into western Europe in Bell Beaker times must have bypassed not only what was left of Maykop, but also those areas where the previous steppe migrations had ended up (Suvorovo, Cernavoda, Ezero, etc) in former Cucuteni territory. In other words, the people who brought western-PIE languages into western Europe left from somewhere near the Volga and made it straight to Hungary, Czechia, Germany in an exceedingly short time. My guess is that they were L51.

As to whether they had initially taken their language from Maykop people - as the article linked in post 1 above suggests - without much demic contact to speak of, well, I find it dubious at best.
 

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