J1 and J2

Spaniard said:
Moreover if we consider that genetics results go constantly and stubbornly against the preconceptions and prejudices of racist people with an agenda trying to always link spaniards to arabs or moors. :LOL:
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Such notions obtain from intellectually and socially challenged (sometimes mentally disturbed) types who, in the end, will be nothing more than part of the garbage heap of history.

Proper, methodologically correct genetic research DOES NOT LIE. False racial / ethnic stereotypes sometimes die hard, but they ALWAYS die in the face of scientific fact.

Again, any methodologically suspect or tendentious genetic data should be removed from this site or any site that holds claim to being a platform for serious discussion.
 
dnabuff said:
Answer to an older post. Email from a friend couple of months ago who did research on Muhammads families. J2

The Arabic speaking people who went to the meditereanean are mostly J2 from eastern mediteranean and some J1 from Yemen area or Ghassanids christians descent.

Many of Prophet Muhammads descendants are J2. The Royal Jordanian family are J2 and so are Rabats King ( Morroco) some families from Yemen who are of Muhammads descendants ( They arrived 400 years ago ) tested and it was J2.



Muhammad cant be J1 because he was never originally from southern Arabian Peninsula he is Arab Mustaribah ( Arabised Arab ) from the north , from Abraham Ur of Chaldea and migrated towards the Hijaz areas.



J1 are mostly found in Yemen 80%, Some bedoins in the north, Ghassanids Christian families of Lebanon , Syria, Palestine and Jordan and Causacus area where its at 75%



Qahtanites and Ghassanids ( Christians Arabs from Marib Yemen now in Lebnan, Syria. Jordan and Falastine ) are mostly J1. Many Christians families in south lebanon tested and got J1 results. Many posted their results on Facebook.



These test are done by real people. Its also possible for Ghassanids to have J2 as some were migrants from north and settled with the Pre Islamic Saba people.



National Geo has more extensive studies
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Could you give me your evidence or any one about this, please?

I am looking for the answer from any one.
 
Could you give me your evidence or any one about this, please?

I am looking for the answer from any one.
 
dnabuff said:
Answer to an older post. Email from a friend couple of months ago who did research on Muhammads families. J2

The Arabic speaking people who went to the meditereanean are mostly J2 from eastern mediteranean and some J1 from Yemen area or Ghassanids christians descent.

Many of Prophet Muhammads descendants are J2. The Royal Jordanian family are J2 and so are Rabats King ( Morroco) some families from Yemen who are of Muhammads descendants ( They arrived 400 years ago ) tested and it was J2.



Muhammad cant be J1 because he was never originally from southern Arabian Peninsula he is Arab Mustaribah ( Arabised Arab ) from the north , from Abraham Ur of Chaldea and migrated towards the Hijaz areas.



J1 are mostly found in Yemen 80%, Some bedoins in the north, Ghassanids Christian families of Lebanon , Syria, Palestine and Jordan and Causacus area where its at 75%



Qahtanites and Ghassanids ( Christians Arabs from Marib Yemen now in Lebnan, Syria. Jordan and Falastine ) are mostly J1. Many Christians families in south lebanon tested and got J1 results. Many posted their results on Facebook.



These test are done by real people. Its also possible for Ghassanids to have J2 as some were migrants from north and settled with the Pre Islamic Saba people.



National Geo has more extensive studies
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Look brother, I believe you and I have an evidence abot your talk. However, I need your evidence or any one need to be fair with himself befor the pople.

My regards to all the honest and respected people
HAppy man.
 
who told you that Muhammeds families, J2?? this is a false statement..


J1 is the correct answer..


Actually J2 are mixed races based on Noah's son (HAM)! So, they're not considered as a Semitic... J1 is the only Semitic HaploG'.


You'd love to read this article:
"Haplogroup J and the Jewish Cohen Modal Haplotype" by Ishaq Al-Sulaimani (Isaac David Solomon)
just google it. and google the writer's name to take a look of his result: "Qaraims" website.


you've stated that:
1-Many of Prophet Muhammads descendants are J2".


-Well, I'm sorry to say that they're feigned from the beginning and they know that and we know it too since along time.




2-The Royal Jordanian family are J2 and so are Rabats King ( Morroco) some families from Yemen who are of Muhammads descendants ( They arrived 400 years ago ) tested and it was J2."


-if so, tell the both of them that I really feel sorry for them.




in fact, we know that a lotta families in Saudi Arabia and other places (including Israel) were shocked because of "J2" result, well, your matching invalidity is not our problem. You have to accept the fact. I really love "DNA" not because of our result "we know who we are without DNA's test", but I love it because it has been "knocked" a heavy burden, if you know what I mean!


if these links weren't enough, then CONTACT ME if you wanna know the real "descendants of Muhammad", (you know who they are) no doubt!! so stop spreading these lies around and get a real!


and by the way "you should stop editing Wikipedia too".


I'm proud of my J1c3d & you should be proud being a "J2" or anything else, just like everybody, all of haplogroups are cool :) & you know that Adam is the father of human.
 
Why does J1 bring out the idiots and bigots?

J1 is my haplogroup. Personally I find everything I read so far to utter crap. Keep your religions in your mesjids, churches, temples and homes. I don't want to know the rantings of uneducated tribal peoples which so people think are holy and God inspired. Honestly, Adam, naturalized Arabs, true Arabs, sons of Israel, Moses, Qahtanites, Abraham....what a load of garbage. If you can't prove the origins of haplogroups, then stop the BS.

The thread was started by one of those mad Spaniards trying to make himself acceptable to Northern Europeans. Those folks have a lot of inferiority. R1b does not make you European or Paleolithic. Aging of haplogroups is impossible at the moment and without actual ancient dna from European humans dated to the Paleolithic to Mesolithic, 40,000 to 10,000 years old showing haplogroup R1b, you are just frothing at the mouth like rabid dogs. Give us the proof or shut up.

You don't need Arabs or Middle Eastern folk to have J1 in Europe. The native peoples of North Africa have had J1 in their populations long before Muhammad or any other man from Arabia was born. Even those Canary Islanders who had no means of leaving the Canary Islands as they destroyed all their seacraft had J1 in their populations. Maybe those reports are false but they haven't been proven so yet. As far as haplogroup studies go, low numbers tested is normal as dna testing is expensive, and consent for collecting dna samples is hard to get. Spain, Portugal, parts of France, Sicily, Sardinia, Crete and parts of mainland Italy were all affected by the North African Muslim push into Europe. Some of them stayed on even after the expulsions and the Inquisitions. Finding J1 in Europe does not need any Yemenis, Saudis, Jordanians or other Arabs to account for it.

Anyhow, what makes J2 so acceptable? Or G2 or E1b1b? They all evolved in the Middle East not Europe. And what makes haplogroup I European when it is so close to haplogroup J? Until those old Europeans from the Paleolithic to current times provide us with datable, verifiable haplogroups, you are just crapping on.
 
Ponto said:
J1 is my haplogroup. Personally I find everything I read so far to utter crap. Keep your religions in your mesjids, churches, temples and homes.
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I've noticed a similar trend. Discussion of J1 always seems to be loaded, I suppose because Jews and Arabs carry it in high frequency. Its current spread is probably largely Neolithic in origin, though, I suspect.

Ponto said:
The thread was started by one of those mad Spaniards trying to make himself acceptable to Northern Europeans. Those folks have a lot of inferiority.
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Please, let's avoid getting into this tired discussion again.

Ponto said:
R1b does not make you European or Paleolithic. Aging of haplogroups is impossible at the moment and without actual ancient dna from European humans dated to the Paleolithic to Mesolithic, 40,000 to 10,000 years old showing haplogroup R1b, you are just frothing at the mouth like rabid dogs. Give us the proof or shut up.
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STR dating is becoming more reliable. And even though it will always have large error bars, the idea that R1b L11+ is Paleolithic is untenable, as such a date for it falls outside even generous error bars.

I still bet that the current distribution of R1b L11+ is entirely due to post-Neolithic (Bronze Age, Iron Age, Classical Age, and so on) expansions.

Ponto said:
And what makes haplogroup I European when it is so close to haplogroup J?
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It has no known subclades datable to 6000 years ago that have their centers of diversity outside of Europe, and in fact has barely any in Eastern Europe or along the Mediterranean. That pins it to Western and Central Europe, dating to the time they split from each other (over 20,000 years ago). Obviously, that isn't the case for its brother clade, J, which it probably split from in Western Asia somewhere.
 
sparkey said:
I've noticed a similar trend. Discussion of J1 always seems to be loaded, I suppose because Jews and Arabs carry it in high frequency. Its current spread is probably largely Neolithic in origin, though, I suspect.
I agree that J1 did most of its moves in Neolithic. When we look at this map below, it shows hot spots on Arabian Peninsula, they are also the diversity centers.

HG_J1_%28ADN-Y%29.PNG


Looking at the strongest locations, in sub Sahara and Arabian Peninsula, it makes me think that maybe their success came at the end of ice age and early Neolithic when these regions where greener and moist, excellent for pastoralists.
The diversity and frequency centers, might tell, us that J1 was most successful when connected to the sea. They could have shifted to sea faring peoples in mid Neolithic. First expended through Red Sea, then spread to Mediterranean.
The biggest density of J1 around Mediterranean match roughly Phoenician colonies. Greek colonies contain less J1. The matches or mismatches are not that precise though, therefor it might mean that main spread of J1 around Mediterranean happened before antiquity.

I don't think J1 was much agricultural, caring first farming into Europe. Actually J1 drops sharply when approaching Fertile Crescent from Arabian Peninsula. Surely it is still strong, but it could have dispersed to the North later. J1 is not continuous, and missing in many fertile places in Europe. If we skip 0.5-1 percentile shade then it exists only by the Mediterranean Sea, except France. It is not a very good candidate for early farmers.
Haplogroup-J1.gif

I don't have a clue what means the big spot in France, Tuscany and Bosnia. Maybe some later movements of J1 with Caucasian tribes, or brought by Gals from Anatolia?

Light shade in Central Europe from Germany to Belarus is a mark of huge Jewish community living there for 1000 years, numbered at around 8 million before WWII.

To my understanding, J1 in Europe is Neolithic sea faring people, some might be Caucasian and Anatolian, and some is surely Jewish.
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Ponto said:
Why does J1 bring out the idiots and bigots?
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-You've said that your HG is J1!! so, you have answered your question yourself..

Ponto said:
J1 is my haplogroup. Personally I find everything I read so far to utter crap. Keep your religions in your mesjids, churches, temples and homes. I don't want to know the rantings of uneducated tribal peoples which so people think are holy and God inspired. Honestly, Adam, naturalized Arabs, true Arabs, sons of Israel, Moses, Qahtanites, Abraham....what a load of garbage. If you can't prove the origins of haplogroups, then stop the BS.
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Nah! You don't have it :useless:!!!! Yup, so obvious, not even close :LOL:...

-Well, you don't have to agree with everythin' you read.... And about the religions, I think that religions are something very special, and your intervention into others believe is disgraceful behavior, and if you're an atheist or somthin' else it is up to you, just please stay away from somebody's privacy!! .. that was a good advice! trust me (y)..... And about uneducated people who think that they are holy,, well, I don't know about Jews,,, but I'd say this is not true if you're talklin' about Muslims, they never think about these kinda thoughts, they don't ever think this way, as well as its a forbidden thing in Islam and there is no difference between mankind, the only difference is the power of faith and piety ... This is the reality .. (i.e) if you're a son of one of the prophets, but you don't pray,, well then this will not save you from the punishment of God, even if you are the prophet's son .. read the story of Prophet Noah,,, God has saved him from the flood, but didn't saved his son because he didn't believed in God,,, he went up to a mountain in order to save his life but God has drowned him... See?? I wish that was clear..

-You have to know that I have been talking in the old post about those people who are trying to change the facts and trying to mislead people through some rumors that the HG of Abraham is not J1... that's all.. And wasn't for any other purpose..


Ponto said:
The thread was started by one of those mad Spaniards trying to make himself acceptable to Northern Europeans. Those folks have a lot of inferiority. R1b does not make you European or Paleolithic. Aging of haplogroups is impossible at the moment and without actual ancient dna from European humans dated to the Paleolithic to Mesolithic, 40,000 to 10,000 years old showing haplogroup R1b, you are just frothing at the mouth like rabid dogs. Give us the proof or shut up.
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- Oops!! too bad to read.. I really don't know about ya thoughts!!! What kinda dichotomy ya sufferin' man?? What kinda hate ya spreadin' around? Who could lives with this kinda human??!! All I can say: "shame on you".... Do you know?? Anyone read these load of **** could understand it in the bad way!! you have just proved that Europeans are racist.. I know they are not,, but you're lack of upscale style of speech was the reason, and that hate inside you also has got you lost!! And you're no longer aware of what you writin' ....... Enough of retard ideas..... People are moving forward while ya returning back to the "rock bottom" !!!


Ponto said:
You don't need Arabs or Middle Eastern folk to have J1 in Europe. The native peoples of North Africa have had J1 in their populations long before Muhammad or any other man from Arabia was born. Even those Canary Islanders who had no means of leaving the Canary Islands as they destroyed all their seacraft had J1 in their populations. Maybe those reports are false but they haven't been proven so yet. As far as haplogroup studies go, low numbers tested is normal as dna testing is expensive, and consent for collecting dna samples is hard to get. Spain, Portugal, parts of France, Sicily, Sardinia, Crete and parts of mainland Italy were all affected by the North African Muslim push into Europe. Some of them stayed on even after the expulsions and the Inquisitions. Finding J1 in Europe does not need any Yemenis, Saudis, Jordanians or other Arabs to account for it.
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-Should I say that Arabs don't need ya either!!??
-Nothin' new or useful of these!! Everybody know that HGs can be found among all of people & everywhere,,, so, I think It's a good opportunity for people to know their veterans relatives,,,, and I really think these is a good idea to spread the love among the people and that would gets them closer to each other instead of the "repulsion". ------> "as ya doing bro"!!! :petrified:


Ponto said:
Anyhow, what makes J2 so acceptable? Or G2 or E1b1b? They all evolved in the Middle East not Europe. And what makes haplogroup I European when it is so close to haplogroup J? Until those old Europeans from the Paleolithic to current times provide us with datable, verifiable haplogroups, you are just crapping on.
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plaplaplap :mad:

-Again you're outta luck.... Simply, all of them are acceptable, especially if you and those guys like you are goin' to stop spreading hate among people against a certain HG!!

Peace out!!
 
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Thanks Mr. LeBrok.. I think that this map has become outdated and need to update... I've found these a map on the genetic atlas's website... Go to -----> the genetic atlas . com/World_Y-DNA . htm​
 
classifying a HG with a religion is 100% wrong oops greater then 100%.............its a waste of time discussing this.

Do you think jews or muslims do genetic tests to determine if you can be a jew or muslim if you are found to be J1 ..............lol...what idiots.
 
Sniper said:
Thanks Mr. LeBrok.. I think that this map has become outdated and need to update... I've found these a map on the genetic atlas's website... Go to -----> the genetic atlas . com/World_Y-DNA . htm​
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what a rubbish site that is ...........yarn plain and inaccurate.
Do you think you can classify genetics by nationality and not by tribal culture ...........thats what that site is a national site on genetics which is purely rubbish
 
zanipolo said:
what a rubbish site that is ...........yarn plain and inaccurate.
Do you think you can classify genetics by nationality and not by tribal culture ...........thats what that site is a national site on genetics which is purely rubbish
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nope.. not classifyin' genetics, who said that?... I just found it in the internet and then share it with ya here!!

Anyway you can take a look on the J1 (Y-DNA) article in Wikipedia,, 46.0% among Cohanim, 72.6% among Yemeni and 40.1% among Saudi according to "Abu Amero et al" & "Cadenas et al (2008)" studies..!!
 
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Sniper said:
nope.. not classifyin' genetics, who said that?... I just found it in the internet and then share it with ya here!!

Anyway you can take a look on the J1 (Y-DNA) article in Wikipedia,, according 46.0% among Cohanim, 72.6% among Yemeni and40.1% among Saudi according to "Abu Amero et al" & "Cadenas et al (2008)" studies..!!
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and I think that percentages were a sufficient... yeah seems a big amount of HG J1 among them... but for sure I'm not talkin' about any kinda genetic's classify..
 
J1's highest diversity is to be found in southeast Anatolia, it thus does not fit with the higest frequencies we report for this haplogroup.

If anything, J1c3d accounts for the majority of all J1 and spread with Semitic languages as suggested by Chiaroni's 2009 paper among others:

"[...] haplogroup J1e data suggest an advance of the Neolithic
period agriculturalists/pastoralists into the arid regions of Arabia from
the Fertile Crescent and support an association with a Semitic
linguistic common denominator."

Remember, other lineages such as J1c3c and J1c2 probably followed J1c3d.
Other papers (Hassan et al, Fregel et al) suggest that J1 could also have been present among early afroasiatic speakers.

The problem is that many people associate J1c3d with J1 as a whole. This is a gross simplification as other clades (such as the new [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]Z1842 clade, a future J1d?)[/FONT] have nothing to do with the spread associated to this clade.
 
Semitic Duwa said:
J1's highest diversity is to be found in southeast Anatolia, it thus does not fit with the higest frequencies we report for this haplogroup.

If anything, J1c3d accounts for the majority of all J1 and spread with Semitic languages as suggested by Chiaroni's 2009 paper among others:

"[...] haplogroup J1e data suggest an advance of the Neolithic
period agriculturalists/pastoralists into the arid regions of Arabia from
the Fertile Crescent and support an association with a Semitic
linguistic common denominator."

Remember, other lineages such as J1c3c and J1c2 probably followed J1c3d.
Other papers (Hassan et al, Fregel et al) suggest that J1 could also have been present among early afroasiatic speakers.

The problem is that many people associate J1c3d with J1 as a whole. This is a gross simplification as other clades (such as the new Z1842 clade, a future J1d?) have nothing to do with the spread associated to this clade.
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Yeah you're right, but I don't see it a big problem at this time because the majority of those people's result has appeared & in most cases, their results were compatible with their surnames, relatives & connections etc, especially the J1c3d.. And I think the other J1 branches still containing a little groups only, which could be defined soon when the new mutations already came out..

You might find many results which containing an important stuff!! If we take this clade (Z1842) as an example, personally I think it could be the Assyrian's exclusive SNP, because it has been found in their results.. You can find it in the (Aramaic DNA Project - Y-DNA SNP), kit#(187962)..

But as you know we can't confirm it as the Assyrian's especial clade at this time,,, only after several positive results...


Glad to know ya Mr. Duwa.. :)
 
Sniper said:
Yeah you're right, but I don't see it a big problem at this time because the majority of those people's result has appeared & in most cases, their results were compatible with their surnames, relatives & connections etc, especially the J1c3d.. And I think the other J1 branches still containing a little groups only, which could be defined soon when the new mutations already came out..

You might find many results which containing an important stuff!! If we take this clade (Z1842) as an example, personally I think it could be the Assyrian's exclusive SNP, because it has been found in their results.. You can find it in the (Aramaic DNA Project - Y-DNA SNP), kit#(187962)..

But as you know we can't confirm it as the Assyrian's especial clade at this time,,, only after several positive results...


Glad to know ya Mr. Duwa.. :)
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Z1842 is common to east anatolians (Assyrians, Kurds, etc) and Nakho-Dagestanian speakers, so it would be best defined as an "Alarodian" clade.
It confirms Caucasian words in non-semitic branches afroasiatic and their attribution to J1 in a sense, even if no paper says so for the moment.

Glad to know you as well Sniper.
 
Semitic Duwa said:
Z1842 is common to east anatolians (Assyrians, Kurds, etc) and Nakho-Dagestanian speakers, so it would be best defined as an "Alarodian" clade.
It confirms Caucasian words in non-semitic branches afroasiatic and their attribution to J1 in a sense, even if no paper says so for the moment.

Glad to know you as well Sniper.
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So, how about (Bnei Yahya project)??? the clade L816 seems bigger than expectations, so that's why they still with no further definition than (J1c3)... I've noticed that the most of recent new clades were close to (L147.1) line, so most of them are useless,,, it has been tested and appeared positive for the most of branches,,, it's really disspointin'....
 
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