Map of J2b and it's two major clades

Explain why there is no history of shipping from albanian people in the ancient times........I will tell you, because the "albanian" people are land-locked , more centred in kosovo than albania. One could say the true, pure Albanians are kosovo people[/Q
No shipping from Albania? The reason that Roman attaked Illyria were Illyrian pirates. Were they swimming? Get your life together dude!!!!
 
as per the most recent book
The Castriotas were first mentioned in sources in 1394 and 1410 when John, Scanderbeg’s father, notified the Republic of Venice of his decision to send his son over to the Turks as hostage.17 According to the Turkish sources, the Castriota family originated from the village of Kastrat in northeastern Albania. Unlike the Thopias and the Comnenis, the Castriotas did not have a long history as members of the aristocracy. In fact, their elevation of status began with Scanderbeg’s grandfather, Paul Castriota, who initially owned two villages named Sinja and Lower Gardi.

Paul Castriota line
Pal Kastrioti was a noble man in Albania of the 14th century. Around 1383 he is attested as the ruler of two villages (Sina and Lower Gardi). His father was a kephale of Kanina which belonged to the Principality of Valona.[dubiousdiscuss] According to Gjon Muzaka Pal had three sons: Konstantin, Alexius and Gjon Kastrioti who was Skanderbeg's father.


From the above..what is a Kephale
Another bit of compelling evidence is found in the Septuagint, the 2BC translation of the Hebrew Old Testament into Greek. When the Hebrew word for “head” (rosh) meant a literal head, the translators translated rosh into kephalē.
http://www.searchingtogether.org/kephale.htm

Sometimes used as a church leader..........

On the difference between castrioti and kastrioti....the true word is Kastrioti, because the italian alphabet does not have K, a C was used which in the end, the surname became divided by different historians in history
 
I don't understand this hobby of trölling Albanians in forums.
Shqiptars or Modern Albanians have nothing to do with Georgia Kastriot or the flag he used. Georgia Kastriot is from the mijak tribe = Macedonian. He did not fight for Albania only for christianity. Language he spoke is the same as todays ethnic macedonians (he did not speak albanian or shqip at all). Modern Albanians are using the wrong flag that have nothing in common with them. Just a borrowed or stolen flag, because they got no history in balkans. Shqiptars (Modern Albanians) are partially from ottoman admixture with local inhabitants (many turks are albanians today in the balkans).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mijaks

Skanderbeg relationship with religion it's actually quite complicated as a lot of Christians he tried to persuade made it clear that they preferred an Ottoman rule than a Christian rebellion despite the support from the Pope, despite the title "Athleta Christi" etc meaning it wasn't a Christian vs. Non-Christian war, although this is how you could describe them. Also, he was a polyglot.

...There are so many ironic statements in your post.

I think except Kastrioti, you must also search the family tree of Aryanit, he was a slav from Fyrom.
Nobles.

Weren't the Toshk Albanians an armeniid race of J2 men similar to Tuscans/Etruscans? Where they in link to the 20% of Albanians that are J2 or is that false?
According to old time books Tosks are Alpine. Alpines tend to be Pan-Europeans. Armenid is the Caucaus region, Anatolia, Iran.

get over it? ...listen retard, I asked you to confirm your thoughts, that's all, don't go insulting me, propio un mona!.

IF the Romans found any albanians, they would have noted this in there books, but they did not, they only noted for the area, epirotes, macedonians and dardanians . They searched under every rock in the balkans looking for minerals to mine they found and noted all the tribes and peoples.

Albanian is a Roman term, it means white. They didn't met any Albanians, because the name is new. Most likely derived from Albanoi Ptolemy mentioned, the one every (non Albanian) scholar has mentioned, but you don't believe it exists. Albanoi though, it's only one what might have given the name. In what today are habitated by Albanains, there were many minor groups. Dardasi, for example, were mentioned by John Musachi as being Albanians, part of a coalition with the Musachi (who also saw themselves as Albanian). He mentioned in the beginning they were 60, although didn't mention everyone's names.

Explain why there is no history of shipping from albanian people in the ancient times........I will tell you, because the "albanian" people are land-locked , more centred in kosovo than albania. One could say the true, pure Albanians are kosovo people

Too many inner migrations to point a finger at anyone.

From the above..what is a Kephale
Another bit of compelling evidence is found in the Septuagint, the 2BC translation of the Hebrew Old Testament into Greek. When the Hebrew word for “head” (rosh) meant a literal head, the translators translated rosh into kephalē.
http://www.searchingtogether.org/kephale.htm

Sometimes used as a church leader..........

On the difference between castrioti and kastrioti....the true word is Kastrioti, because the italian alphabet does not have K, a C was used which in the end, the surname became divided by different historians in history

It's says the term it's very widespread in the Balkans used in the Byzantine Period meaning you're going in a dead end on whatever you're trying to find. Kastrioti with a K it's more recent as this is the Albanian standardization.
 
I don't understand this hobby of trölling Albanians in forums.


Skanderbeg relationship with religion it's actually quite complicated as a lot of Christians he tried to persuade made it clear that they preferred an Ottoman rule than a Christian rebellion despite the support from the Pope, despite the title "Athleta Christi" etc meaning it wasn't a Christian vs. Non-Christian war, although this is how you could describe them. Also, he was a polyglot.

...There are so many ironic statements in your post.


Nobles.


According to old time books Tosks are Alpine. Alpines tend to be Pan-Europeans. Armenid is the Caucaus region, Anatolia, Iran.



Albanian is a Roman term, it means white. They didn't met any Albanians, because the name is new. Most likely derived from Albanoi Ptolemy mentioned, the one every (non Albanian) scholar has mentioned, but you don't believe it exists. Albanoi though, it's only one what might have given the name. In what today are habitated by Albanains, there were many minor groups. Dardasi, for example, were mentioned by John Musachi as being Albanians, part of a coalition with the Musachi (who also saw themselves as Albanian). He mentioned in the beginning they were 60, although didn't mention everyone's names.



Too many inner migrations to point a finger at anyone.



It's says the term it's very widespread in the Balkans used in the Byzantine Period meaning you're going in a dead end on whatever you're trying to find. Kastrioti with a K it's more recent as this is the Albanian standardization.


you seem like a clever man, educate your fellow people that they cannot be Illyrians,

from roman historians

propriedicti Illyrii finds a parallel in the
Chorographia
of Pomponius Mela, written between 43–44 AD.Mela (2.55–56) writes that
hoc mare
[the Adriatic],
magno recessu litorum acceptum et vaste quidem inlatitudinem patens, qua penetrat tamen vastius, Il-lyricis usque Tergestum, cetera Gallicis Itali<ci>sque gentibus cingitur. Partheni et Dassaretae prima eiustenent, sequentia Taulantii, Encheleae
[corr. Olivar-ius : encele V]
, Phaeaces. Dein sunt quos proprieIllyrios vocant, tum Piraei et Liburni et Histria
.
20
(“
This sea
[the Adriatic], situated in a large recess of the coast and widely open in its width, in the place where it penetrates for an extensive stretch,is surrounded until Tergeste by Illyrians and on the remaining sides by Italians and Gauls. Partheni and Dasareti hold its first part, then follow Taulantii, Enchelei, and Phaeaces; thereafter come the properly named Illyrians, the Piraei, Liburni and Histria
”).

naming was from south to north.

And OK on your K for the name reasons
 
educate your fellow people that they cannot be Illyrians,
so that's what is bothering you...Albanians being Illyrians. Since you also pick up fights with Serbs here, I get the impression you want to be ancient in the area but don't want to be associated with Albanians. That sounds like a Croatian or Slovenian, in denial of his identity.
 
so that's what is bothering you...Albanians being Illyrians. Since you also pick up fights with Serbs here, I get the impression you want to be ancient in the area but don't want to be associated with Albanians. That sounds like a Croatian or Slovenian, in denial of his identity.

bullshit claims by albanians saying they are illyrians
bullshit claims by slavs saying they are illyrians, slavs saying they are thracians, germans claiming goths and prussians, swedes claiming goths and prussians, franks ( who are germans ) claiming gallic people etc etc is all wrong and all bullshit, the paranoia of trying to claim one ancient group to claim some kind of futuristic lands is unbelievable. it leads to stupid disputes over bullshit.

The point is , all nations are mongrel nations, mutations of many ancient tribes, they have no claim on any ancient race.

as for your albanians, ...lets see the truth, you have some epirote, some greek, some illyrian, some thracian, some italian, some goth, some vandal, some sarmatian, some egyptian, some jew, some anatolian I can go on and on.........your race is not pure.

Explain why you want to claim some ancient people that do not exist now............let me see your reasons.
 
Instead of attacking each other help me guys! What do you think of my origin? Who could be my ancestors? When they became nobles (1593) they had Hungarian sounding name. They also have the red flag with the double-headed eagle in their CoA.

My only match is an Armenian guy, but he claims his paternal ancestors came from Russia and were caviar merchants during the reign of Catherine the Great. They had a Russian sounding name, but maybe changed when moved to Russia and changed back when they went home to Armenia. (Russian name was Gubov and the Armenian is Proshyan, gub=prosh=lip.) (Our match is distant 800-1200 years ago, so propapbly around 800-1100 AD we had our common ancestor. Haplo: J2b* M241-, M205-.)

I know there were Greek and Armenian caviar mechants in Russia that time, maybe the most famous is Ioannis Varvakis. And there were Greeks, Armenians, Byzantines in Hungary since the Arpads. But many refugees came from the Balkans during the Ottoman Wars as well.
 
[video]http://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%99%CF%89%CE%AC%CE%BD%CE%BD%CE%B7%CF%82_%CE%9A% CE%B1%CF%83%CF%84%CF%81%CE%B9%CF%8E%CF%84%CE%B7%CF %82[/video]

Η οικογένεια πήρε το όνομά της από την πόλη της Καστοριάς,[1] απ' όπου καταγόταν, σύμφωνα με τον Πάπα Πίο Β',[2][3]

According Pope Pios 2nd Kastrioti was from Greece Makedonia ruler of Emtheia and Kasturia,
Kasturia was also inhabited by slavs that time, that is why Kastrioti except the connection with Greeks, also had connection with Slavs like his wife who was Serb, and his general aryanit or agianitis who was from today Fyrom.

sources.



  • "Αλβανία", Αχ. Λαζάρου, σελ.86
  • "Αλβανοί, Αρβανίτες, Έλληνες", Σαράντος Καργάκος, Β' Έκδοση, 2000, σελ.106 και παραπομπές - σχολιασμός



  • Πάπυρος Λαρούς Μπριτάνικα, τόμος 32, λήμμα Καστριώτης
  • Πάπυρος Λαρούς Μπριτάνικα, τόμος 6, λήμμα Αλβανία, Ιστορία της Αλβανίας
  • Πάπυρος Λαρούς Μπριτάνικα, τόμος 27, λήμμα Ήπειρος, Ιστορία της Ηπείρου
  • "Αλβανοί, Αρβανίτες, Έλληνες", Σαράντος Καργάκος, Β' Έκδοση, 2000
  • "Ελλήνων Τόποι, 10.000 Χρόνια Ιστορίας", Πατριδογνωσία
  • Britannica Encyclopedia, Skanderbeg, 2007
  • Britannica Encyclopedia, Albania, Medieval Culture, 2007
  • "Dictionarium Latino Epiroticum", Fransiscus Blanchus
  • "Ιστορία του Ελληνικού Έθνους, Τόμος Ε', μέρος Β', Κωνσταντίνος Παπαρρηγόπουλος, σχολιασμός Καρολίδη
  • "Ιστορία του Σουλίου και Πάργας", Χριστόφορος Περραιβός
  • "Αλβανία", Αχ. Λαζάρου, Νέα Εστία, 1994

Barleti
Ursini
Ahmet Muffit
biografers of that era name him and give his origin as Greek


Jakob Philipp Fallmerayer
Karl Hopf

Consider him as Serbian

Κωνσταντίνος Παπαρρηγόπουλος
considers him as Slav from Slav origin same nationality of Arianit (Fyrom-SlavMakedonian)
 
Seeing those maps, it seems that J2b could have been one of the Indo-European haplogroups alongside R1b, R1a and G2a3b1. That would explain the presence of J2b in the Northwest Caucasus (Maykop region), the Volga region, the Balkans, Central Asia, the Hindu Kush, the Indian subcontinent and Iran.

Another possibility (my original assumption) is that J2b spread in the Neolithic around the Middle East, to Danubian Europe, Iran and Central Asia, then was picked up by the Indo-Europeans in Central Asia (Andronovo and BMAC complex) before they continued their migration to the Indian subcontinent. The presence of J2b around the Volga would be a back migration from Central Asia or Iran during the Scythian period.

It's too early to determine which hypothesis is the correct one.
 
The Greeks spread J2b I believe to northern India under Alexander the Great.
 
The Greeks spread J2b I believe to northern India under Alexander the Great.
yes, but Alexander the Great and his army were Thraco-Illyrian, that's why J2b is mainly Albanian and not Greek.
 
yes, but Alexander the Great and his army were Thraco-Illyrian, that's why J2b is mainly Albanian and not Greek.



No Alexander and his army were South-Slavs,
his name was Alexei
I wonder what else we will hear in the forum, :useless:

by following your other posts, yes Alexander was Etruscan from Albanian origin and spoke Pelasgian.
his was not Dorian, but Kelt from Pannoni Basin, and his mother was Albanian from Serb origin,
what else?
oh I forgot,
his army were Viking-Gothic people, who spoke Illyrian-Aromani,
right?

Oh I forgot, also Skudra in his country was a satrapy of Skonder people,
right?

and about Genetics,

E-V13 is a parthenogenesis in Neolithic Balkans in Kossovo,
J2b is Pelasgian so its Albanian also
I2a and I2b and I1 is Illyrian,
and R1b has its origin in North Albania
while R1a has its origin in South Albania.

about mothers,

mtDNA
H has its origin in Kossovo,
X has its origin in North Albania
and J is the trade mark of Illyrian matriarchical ancestry right.
while U mtDNA is characteristic of Pelasgian/etruscan/Illyrian/Albanian (did I forgot something)
 
one day you will accept the truth Yetos. But anyways, you're way offtopic.
 
Barleti
Ursini
Ahmet Muffit
biografers of that era name him and give his origin as Greek

STOP! They give his origin as Epirotean not as Greek. At that time Epirotean referred almost exclusively to Albanians. The Albanian language at that time was known as Epirotean as well. I'll let you search this dictionary to verify:
frang-bardhi.png


The exclusivity of relating Albanians with Epiroteans persisted for a long time, hence why ethnic maps like these were common:
images

Balkans-ethnic_(1861).jpg


In reality there were Greek and Albanian of Epirus region just like today, but at that time they were only counted as Albanians, which is why Albanians look so widepread in the South in those maps. The coastal area is most likely Albanian.
 
STOP! They give his origin as Epirotean not as Greek. At that time Epirotean referred almost exclusively to Albanians. The Albanian language at that time was known as Epirotean as well. I'll let you search this dictionary to verify:
frang-bardhi.png


The exclusivity of relating Albanians with Epiroteans persisted for a long time, hence why ethnic maps like these were common:
images

Balkans-ethnic_(1861).jpg


In reality there were Greek and Albanian of Epirus region just like today, but at that time they were only counted as Albanians, which is why Albanians look so widepread in the South in those maps. The coastal area is most likely Albanian.

Stop?

are giving me orders?

!rst
Ahmet Mufit names him Yunan,

Barletti

Tell me Epirus Despotate what ethnicity was?
Greek or Albanian?

That Time Epirotan were the Epirus Despotate.

Sorry,
 
Stop?

are giving me orders?

!rst
Ahmet Mufit names him Yunan,

Barletti

Tell me Epirus Despotate what ethnicity was?
Greek or Albanian?

That Time Epirotan were the Epirus Despotate.

Sorry,

It wasn't an order, I was telling you you're going in the wrong direction. It's a verbal tic that it didn't translate well when written. I use use to mean 'pause and reflect', but how are you supposed to know.

Epirotean was used for Albanians, that's why those map show Epirus Despotate as majority Albanian. I didn't make them. They were made by foreigners (Russian and French respectively). I can show you tons of others. They apparently just assumed that since it was called Epirus the majority of the population had to be Albanian, because at that time Epiroteans were identified with Albanians. Go on, research the dictionary. Did the Greeks agree with that? I doubt. Just like you now, they probably strongly disagreed. Were they taken into account? No. Just look at those maps.

In Greek made maps, they don't show that region as majority Albanian. They did show mixed populations of Albanians and Greeks in certain regions. I know Greeks differentiated those two. I'm saying that others didn't. Those 'others' include the people you mentioned. That's just how it is.
 
There is another M205-, M241- person who found to be positive for Z574 SNP. He is of Armenian origin (FTDNA ID: 172798.)

Proposed J2b tree:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Isg4fVz1k6-wbMW7mgzT0KG8eKRMJBFeLJeR_2a9J6g/edit

_M12, M102, M221, M314, L282 J2b__ M205 J2b1
__ Z574, Z575
____ M241 J2b2
______ L283
________ Z638
__________ Z1296
____________ Z1297, Z1298
______________ Z631, Z639
________________ Z1043, Z1048




 
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