E-V13 subclades in Greece

Thanks for asking :)

1. Albanian is not Ilyrian
2. Croatian is not Ilyrian
3. E-V13 is 100 % not Albanian, haplogroups are not held by modern nationalities
4. I2a Din Souht is 100% not Croatian, haplogroups are not held by modern nationalities
5. E-V13 is ancient and uber European
6. I2a Din ( especially North) is really connected with Slavic people
7. Looks have nothing to do with Y Haplogroup, Male line just says where the father of the father of the father of the father etc. maybe kind ,sort of lived
8. Croats and Albanians are not the fathers of Serbs and Bulgarians and Greeks and Vlachs

I could wirte a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot more

:)

except No 7, let me disagree due to endogamous through millenias
where other genes, than Y or mt, are made as primary of sexual selection, make a special characteristic of the Hg (Y or mt) through time

The rest are part of truth.
 
Thanks for asking :)

1. Albanian is not Ilyrian
2. Croatian is not Ilyrian
3. E-V13 is 100 % not Albanian, haplogroups are not held by modern nationalities
4. I2a Din Souht is 100% not Croatian, haplogroups are not held by modern nationalities
5. E-V13 is ancient and uber European
6. I2a Din ( especially North) is really connected with Slavic people
7. Looks have nothing to do with Y Haplogroup, Male line just says where the father of the father of the father of the father etc. maybe kind ,sort of lived
8. Croats and Albanians are not the fathers of Serbs and Bulgarians and Greeks and Vlachs

I could wirte a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot more

:)

Whether Albanian is or is not Illyrian has not even reached a verdict given the lack of evidence for or against. So, your hastiness to declare a lack of a connection is on equally weak legs as those who claim we do. Lets wait for evidence to surface before we make any bold claims, shall we?

Additionally, while haplogroups are of course not tied specifically to any nationalities, there are specific clades of haplogroups that are only found amongst certain nationalities. Whilst all people of a haplogroup are related in the ancient past, certain mutations only found in certain ethnic groups are clearly examples/evidence of coalescence of said lineage among said ethnic group. Otherwise you would not find mutations unique to different ethnic groups if they had not developed among them.

Everyone knows that nationality is a social construct. That does not change the fact that haplogroups develop mutations differently depending on the ethnic group they are present.

Also, E-V13 predates the first classical civilizations in the Balkans to begin with. E-V13 most certainly participated in many Balkan civilizations. I do not see why unique mutations found among ethnic groups are not evidence of that already.

Regardless of whether or not Albanians have anything to do with Illyrians, Albanians possess a branch of J2b2 descended of the line they found in Croatia any ways.

The science is not going to prove any unitary support for any Balkan peoples wet dreams of grandeur.

The truth of the matter is every nation is a mixed back patrilineally speaking.

There are clades of E-V13 that only Albanians belong to. There are clades of E-V13 that slavs belong to. etc. So there clearly are branches of lineages that can be assigned to nationalities given the current data.
 
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Whether Albanian is or is not Illyrian has not even reached a verdict given the lack of evidence for or against. So, your hastiness to declare a lack of a connection is on equally weak legs as those who claim we do. Lets wait for evidence to surface before we make any bold claims, shall we?

Additionally, while haplogroups are of course not tied specifically to any nationalities, there are specific clades of haplogroups that are only found amongst certain nationalities. Whilst all people of a haplogroup are related in the ancient past, certain mutations only found in certain ethnic groups are clearly examples/evidence of coalescence of said lineage among said ethnic group. Otherwise you would not find mutations unique to different ethnic groups if they had not developed among them.

Everyone knows that nationality is a social construct. That does not change the fact that haplogroups develop mutations differently depending on the ethnic group they are present.

Also, E-V13 predates the first classical civilizations in the Balkans to begin with. E-V13 most certainly participated in many Balkan civilizations. I do not see why unique mutations found among ethnic groups are not evidence of that already.

Regardless of whether or not Albanians have anything to do with Illyrians, Albanians possess a branch of J2b2 descended of the line they found in Croatia any ways.

The science is not going to prove any unitary support for any Balkan peoples wet dreams of grandeur.

The truth of the matter is every nation is a mixed back patrilineally speaking.

There are clades of E-V13 that only Albanians belong to. There are clades of E-V13 that slavs belong to. etc. So there clearly are branches of lineages that can be assigned to nationalities given the current data.
Now, now respect to you unlike the Albanian who claims to be Croat you actually have logic and common sense!

Ofc E-V13 is linked to Ancient Balkan Civilisations you are 100% right, but by no means Albanians are the only descendents of them ;)

Ofc Albanians have a lot to do with iliriyans, but Albanians just like Croats or Serbs or Bulgarians or Irish or Chinese are a mixture of a lot of things.

I do things J2b2 have more to do with Ilirians then E-V13, but both are connected ofc so is R1b-L23 etc.etc :)
 
except No 7, let me disagree due to endogamous through millenias
where other genes, than Y or mt, are made as primary of sexual selection, make a special characteristic of the Hg (Y or mt) through time

The rest are part of truth.

Yes ofc :) But I still believe Y haplogroup have nothing to do with looks, I know J2a and E-V13 guys who look Nordic or Slavic and R1a Z280 and I1 guys who look well quite dark and Med to say the least :)
 
Now, now respect to you unlike the Albanian who claims to be Croat you actually have logic and common sense!
Ofc E-V13 is linked to Ancient Balkan Civilisations you are 100% right, but by no means Albanians are the only descendents of them ;)
Ofc Albanians have a lot to do with iliriyans, but Albanians just like Croats or Serbs or Bulgarians or Irish or Chinese are a mixture of a lot of things.
I do things J2b2 have more to do with Ilirians then E-V13, but both are connected ofc so is R1b-L23 etc.etc :)
Thank you. However, logic/common sense and ethnicities do not go hand in hand. This or that person is not illogical because they are Albanian or Greek or Slavic. They are illogical because as all humans tend, they let their desire drive their mental processes.
I never thought it was exclusively Albanian. However it is most dominant in Albanians. Even if the common ancestor of all of them lived 1500 years ago. The lineage dominates them today. I agree though. Saying E-V13 is exclusively Albanian is like saying R1a is exclusively Slavic. There are so many factors that go into it. We have to understand however, most people are laymen. Because of this things are labeled with broad strokes.
Albanians like other ethnic groups are a mix of different things. I don't think anyone with a brain would actually think any ethnic group is pure and unitary in origin.
I actually believe l Albanians(as in Proto-Albanians) are a lot older than(but not unlike)Illyrians. Yet more like the Vlachs; leaving less of an impact in antiquity, with the Middle Ages being our point of expansion. It's actually a standing theory among albanologists in Austria. my belief is R1b-L23 was the chief lineage of Proto Albanians, who upon assimilation and expansion, absorbed Illyrians, Greeks, Romans and Slavs, becoming modern Albanians. I think the founder effect of E-V13 and J2b2 are not necessarily indicative of Proto Albanians, but rather Illyrians, Greeks, Romans and in part Thracians, absorbed by Proto Albanians. As I understand it all E-V13 Albanian men have one common ancestor who lived 1500 years ago. This could indicate the lineage was far less prominent at one point in time. R1b still has a even distribution region to region.
While we know we can't assign tribes to one lineage(as I am sure they had many) I would agree J2b2 would have probably been Illyrian, but given geographic expansion and distribution, Im sure the lineage was shared by many tribes.
As for E-V13 many claim it descends in large part from Slaves of classical civilizations. I cannot confirm or deny this. However, there is a common story among Albanians(at least my father tells me) that wearing the Albanian skull cap is part of a tradition whereby it marks a symbol of our oppression, that it is removed when we are "free". I cannot confirm or deny this. Perhaps some fellow Albanians can chime in.
I find the connection interesting if it's true. Given E-V13 is so dominant. Surely the slaves outnumbered their masters upon collapse of their kingdoms. Culture is fluid. Like everything it's in constant evolution and flux.
I think all the Balkans inherited DNA from classical groups. Some more of one tribe over the other.
Old nations have past. No one is directly related to any of them. We are all merely evolving ethnic groups making ourselves anew generation to generation, due to many different circumstances. Some within our control some outside our control.
 
Hrvat22 waste no time with Garrick....he is a lost case.... first he sad Albanians are from Caucas and came with Turks.... now some other Crap......


Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum

You are in illusion if you think so but you can think what want, who cares.

Because Caucasus or any other region is mentioned in particular context for very old Proto populations, where any haplogroup could have origin and it is not wrong with that.

I never said that Albanians came with Turks and you can read all my posts you will never find this.

It is not correct but again who cares, but you will be surprised if I say to you that any Albanians give me support, and appreciate my efforts.

If you want be serious, and really want to know it is better to read next.
 
@Dibran

Albanians are just a mix of people residing in the Balkans that after the Slavs were pushed from all sides and were roughly concentrated where you find today Albanian speakers. Nothing older about it.

All in all, E-V13 and J2b2 could be called "more Illyrian" in the stricter sense as they're mostly found among mountain clans, while in the same time those mountain clans are "more typically Albanian" than the more evenly spread R1b. Obviously this is all crap and I don't believe in it so don't quote me on that.

I'd be interested to know the highland/lowland distribution of E-V13 in Albania and Greece specifically, but also Bulgaria, Macedonia, Serbia, etc. as we more or less have some info on Montenegro.

As for the hat and slaves story, sorry but that is crap even as an option to simply consider. Remember there's Albanians like myself that come from Montenegro and Herzegovina and brought a separate Albanian dialect (and mostly replaced the previous ones), so there's no chance we came as E-V13 or J2b2 Illyrians and got Albanised by a bunch of local shepherds. If anything what constitutes today of Albania was full of Vlachs/Romanised locals before.

I hope to see more Greeks and Albanians testing for deeper subclades and solve part of the puzzle concerning this haplogroup as the tables are turning and it's becoming more likely to have been a Northern intruder rather than Southern (Thessaly, Peloponnesus, u name it).

It even makes sense to me that if true, at least the Dorians were an ethnos created North of Greece, therefore culturally and genetically similar to the "barbaric" Illyro-Thracians and got civilized rather than created a Hellenic civilization (Mycenaeans included) in Greece.
 
hrvat22 (or Albanian from Croatia but it doesn't matter)

Now first context. Without context someone know nothing. For example somoene who would study haplogroups todays inhabitants of todays Hungary or Turkey and don’t know context, he or she would be mislead and have drawn entirely wrong conclusions. Without a context someone would be in his fantasies, which is not even amateurish or childish.

Based on the contemporary scientific papers (no Serbian, I very rarely use Serbian sources); only facts

Albanians (Shqiptarët) speakers of Albanian language (Gjuha Shqipe) came to the areas of present day Albania in 6-8 century.

Contemporary science solved almost all enigmas of Albanian (Shqiptarët) homeland, there are only two regions (areas) from which the Albanians (Shqiptarët) could came to the areas of present day Albania in 6th-8th century.

It means Albanians (Shqiptarët) when arrived to Albania are not descendants of Illyrians.

When arrived to areas of present-day Albania in 6-8 century Albanians (Shqiptarët) could found local inhabitants:

Greeks

Romanized Illyrians

Descedents of Romans and other people (from the areas of present day Italy)

It is possible some Aromanians, Slavs, if they arrived in that time, some little ethnic groups etc.

It means that Albanians (Shqiptarët) assimilated local Romanized Iliryans.

As is Serbs, Croats, Slovenes, Bosnians assimilated Romanized Illirians.

Answer for you, Croats have no Albanian blood, Illyrians which Croats assimilated (for example in Dalmatia) have nothing with Albanians (Shqiptarët) who came to Albania in 6th-8th century.

Every nation assimilated Romanized Illyrians how many of them found when this nation came.

Why Romanized? Because Illyrans adopted Latin language till 3rd century, they ceased to exist as political entity.
...

In genetic terms contemporary Albanians have genetics of

Shqiptarët who came in the areas of present day Albania in 6-8 century and

all of above mentioned local people who they found and assimilated.

It is same for every nation who arrive and settle any territory and assimilate locals.

The dilemma of science has remained which area is right homeland of Shqiptarët of these two above mentioned areas. How we are interested in genetics everything will be more precisely known when genetic studies will be made for period 2-6 century in only two possible regions which Albanians (Shqiptarët) settled then and from which they left and after that came to areas of present day Albania.

...
Now when we know context we will understand much easier what genetic genealogy says, about possible movement of haplogroup CTS5856 or any other (too much to insert now).
 
@Garrick

Are you a bot?

I said earlier that my family just like many came from Herzegovina and brought a distinct Albanian dialect with them. How did those mysterious Albanians of yours manage to assimilate us so far up North while we're sorrounded by Vlachs and Slavs?

Balkan population movements happened mostly from North to South in that era, so we pushed each other South from Bosnia and Herzegovina down to Peloponnesus, as you can see in the mutations of many many Greeks belonging to V13 or even J2b2 for that matter. Not to mention that Albanian has a layer of Latin words since BC while you're stuck with 8th century AD and Free Carpi/Bastarnae or whatever you came up with recently.

Im surprised Sile hasn't showed up yet. And of course dear Angela to delete my posts and issue some infractions for derailing the topic.
 
It is a very basic concept. If EV13 was found in the balkans that is 7400 years old, this means it is indigenous and predates ANY SLAV migration/invasion into the balkans.

It is 100% clear that it is not a slav haplogroup, thats for sure at least.

Derite
But what this E-V13 (which subclade) has with what you write.

For example Proto-Illyrians came to the Balkans 2000 BC via Bosphorus, they didn't have this haplogroup in their homeland (it is possible western Iran, eastern Anatolia or surrounding).

E-V13 had completely different movements than people assumed until recently.

If you want such logic I2a is much older in Balkans than E-V13.
 
@Garrick

Are you a bot?

I said earlier that my family just like many came from Herzegovina and brought a distinct Albanian dialect with them. How did those mysterious Albanians of yours manage to assimilate us so far up North while we're sorrounded by Vlachs and Slavs?

Balkan population movements happened mostly from North to South in that era, so we pushed each other South from Bosnia and Herzegovina down to Peloponnesus, as you can see in the mutations of many many Greeks belonging to V13 or even J2b2 for that matter. Not to mention that Albanian has a layer of Latin words since BC while you're stuck with 8th century AD and Free Carpi/Bastarnae or whatever you came up with recently.

Im surprised Sile hasn't showed up yet. And of course dear Angela to delete my posts and issue some infractions for derailing the topic.

No, and of course, for all can be found explanation.

Your discussion is very interesting and different from any nationalistic crap which we can see here.

And all is very important for topic because context, who reads all of these posts he or she will have much better picture.

I agree with you that movement of E-V13 was from north.

Actually until recently people thought very mistaken about E-V13 what means how many this matter is unknown and how matter is fast changing.
 
@Dibran
Albanians are just a mix of people residing in the Balkans that after the Slavs were pushed from all sides and were roughly concentrated where you find today Albanian speakers. Nothing older about it.
All in all, E-V13 and J2b2 could be called "more Illyrian" in the stricter sense as they're mostly found among mountain clans, while in the same time those mountain clans are "more typically Albanian" than the more evenly spread R1b. Obviously this is all crap and I don't believe in it so don't quote me on that.
I'd be interested to know the highland/lowland distribution of E-V13 in Albania and Greece specifically, but also Bulgaria, Macedonia, Serbia, etc. as we more or less have some info on Montenegro.
As for the hat and slaves story, sorry but that is crap even as an option to simply consider. Remember there's Albanians like myself that come from Montenegro and Herzegovina and brought a separate Albanian dialect (and mostly replaced the previous ones), so there's no chance we came as E-V13 or J2b2 Illyrians and got Albanised by a bunch of local shepherds. If anything what constitutes today of Albania was full of Vlachs/Romanised locals before.
I hope to see more Greeks and Albanians testing for deeper subclades and solve part of the puzzle concerning this haplogroup as the tables are turning and it's becoming more likely to have been a Northern intruder rather than Southern (Thessaly, Peloponnesus, u name it).
It even makes sense to me that if true, at least the Dorians were an ethnos created North of Greece, therefore culturally and genetically similar to the "barbaric" Illyro-Thracians and got civilized rather than created a Hellenic civilization (Mycenaeans included) in Greece.
Perhaps. I don't know much account Albanian clans from Bosnia. I did recently buy tribes of Albania which I haven't had a chance to read yet. Never knew Albanians were as far as Herzegovina honestly lol. I am American born and my father came here at 10. So we know more or less about history concerning our clan in Diber.
I have no doubt that culturally we are descendants of local tribes. My theory stems from that of Austrian Albanilogists that suggests Albanians were a small nomadic paleobalkan tribe that took part in many Balkan civilizations. Even predating Illyrians. And that they were located somewhere around the district of Mat.
All theories at this point. No concrete evidence from a linguistic and historical perspective. However DNA is largely showing that Albanians are overwhelmingly natives.
I have even heard wild theories suggesting Albanians and Vlachs branches off from Dacians.
Time will tell I suppose.

I am doing FGC Yelite myself. I tested Z283 and negative downstream all major branches at LivingDNA. doing Y67 to to see if I have matches in the meantime. Though there is a likely chance if LivingDNA is right, I could be a rare clade under Z283.

Some people from Mirdita claim the clan my father claims we descend were hired Condottieri from Italy by Skanderbeg. I imagine if there is any weight to this claim, my Ydna should have matches in Italy on y37 level?
 
Perhaps. I don't know much account Albanian clans from Bosnia. I did recently buy tribes of Albania which I haven't had a chance to read yet. Never knew Albanians were as far as Herzegovina honestly lol. I am American born and my father came here at 10. So we know more or less about history concerning our clan in Diber.

I have no doubt that culturally we are descendants of local tribes. My theory stems from that of Austrian Albanilogists that suggests Albanians were a small nomadic paleobalkan tribe that took part in many Balkan civilizations. Even predating Illyrians. And that they were located somewhere around the district of Mat.

All theories at this point. No concrete evidence from a linguistic and historical perspective. However DNA is largely showing that Albanians are overwhelmingly natives.

I have even heard wild theories suggesting Albanians and Vlachs branches off from Dacians.

Time will tell I suppose.

I appreciate your posts. When I have time I will explain detailed.
 
Based on the contemporary scientific papers (no Serbian, I very rarely use Serbian sources); only facts

Albanians (Shqiptarët) speakers of Albanian language (Gjuha Shqipe) came to the areas of present day Albania in 6-8 century.

Contemporary science solved almost all enigmas of Albanian (Shqiptarët) homeland, there are only two regions (areas) from which the Albanians (Shqiptarët) could came to the areas of present day Albania in 6th-8th century.

This is an outright fiction. Its pure propaganda created out of thin air that conveniently places albanians in the balkans later than the very well documented time of slav arrival.

you claim your very scientific non serbian sources for facts but fail to produce them, lets see them shall we?

its extremely well established that albanian has to be in the balkans before the first millenium BC because of many linguistic cognates and dialect shifts that match perfectly with well documemted ones that happened in Latin. im on phone atm i will post the actual sources for this so you cant spread absurd claims about albanians coming to albanian homeland after slavs.
the gheg and tosk dialects have been proven to have been formed at least 2000 years ago because of features that gheg shares with latin and tosk shares with greek.

for all those non serbs lurking or witnessing this thread i must inform you that the serbian state for at least a hundred years has terrorised the albanian population with outright fictions like this. it claimed albanians spoke a non indo european lamguage and came from caucauses during ottoman empire. the serbian state could not foresee that albanian would be proven to be an indo european language and humiliatingly exposing this regime parroted lie. DNA and increasingly better technology will only continue to dismantle fictions such as the one you pushed here. The fact that you intentionally omit where this non albanian homeland is after hinting at only two possibilities shows how dishonest your intentions are.
 
This is an outright fiction. Its pure propaganda created out of thin air that conveniently places albanians in the balkans later than the very well documented time of slav arrival.

you claim your very scientific non serbian sources for facts but fail to produce them, lets see them shall we?

its extremely well established that albanian has to be in the balkans before the first millenium BC because of many linguistic cognates and dialect shifts that match perfectly with well documemted ones that happened in Latin. im on phone atm i will post the actual sources for this so you cant spread absurd claims about albanians coming to albanian homeland after slavs.
the gheg and tosk dialects have been proven to have been formed at least 2000 years ago because of features that gheg shares with latin and tosk shares with greek.

for all those non serbs lurking or witnessing this thread i must inform you that the serbian state for at least a hundred years has terrorised the albanian population with outright fictions like this. it claimed albanians spoke a non indo european lamguage and came from caucauses during ottoman empire. the serbian state could not foresee that albanian would be proven to be an indo european language and humiliatingly exposing this regime parroted lie. DNA and increasingly better technology will only continue to dismantle fictions such as the one you pushed here. The fact that you intentionally omit where this non albanian homeland is after hinting at only two possibilities shows how dishonest your intentions are.

Albanians who know me longer know that I don't use Serbian sources, it is true.

Of course I will gave scientific papers where it is written, but it is not for this thread, in any other more appropriate thread, here I only wanted to talk about context because, you can agree, if someone don't know context and discuss about haplogroups his conclusions will be completely wrong, what I will show in first next.

What I have with nationalism, if you want know I was Tito fan, appreciated his courage against Stalin, appreciated brotherhood and unity of all people of ex Yugoslavia, I loved federal state, now I love idea of federal Europe, but for this it is doesn't matter, everyone can be whatever he or she wants.
 
Thanks for asking :)

1. Albanian is not Ilyrian
2. Croatian is not Ilyrian
3. E-V13 is 100 % not Albanian, haplogroups are not held by modern nationalities
4. I2a Din Souht is 100% not Croatian, haplogroups are not held by modern nationalities
5. E-V13 is ancient and uber European
6. I2a Din ( especially North) is really connected with Slavic people
7. Looks have nothing to do with Y Haplogroup, Male line just says where the father of the father of the father of the father etc. maybe kind ,sort of lived
8. Croats and Albanians are not the fathers of Serbs and Bulgarians and Greeks and Vlachs

I could wirte a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot more

:)


Now all you said proof with historical records and genetics.

You can not, it mean that you are in myth and everything you say is a lie.

I wait your evidence.
 
Now, now respect to you unlike the Albanian who claims to be Croat you actually have logic and common sense!

Ofc E-V13 is linked to Ancient Balkan Civilisations you are 100% right, but by no means Albanians are the only descendents of them ;)

Ofc Albanians have a lot to do with iliriyans, but Albanians just like Croats or Serbs or Bulgarians or Irish or Chinese are a mixture of a lot of things.

I do things J2b2 have more to do with Ilirians then E-V13, but both are connected ofc so is R1b-L23 etc.etc :)

Refute me with genetic and historical records when I do not speak logically.

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/31539-Genetics-confirm-migration-of-White-Croats-to-Croatia

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...bs-Croats-and-I2a2/page20?p=520335#post520335


I'm waiting for you..hahahahhaah
 
You are in illusion if you think so but you can think what want, who cares.

Because Caucasus or any other region is mentioned in particular context for very old Proto populations, where any haplogroup could have origin and it is not wrong with that.

I never said that Albanians came with Turks and you can read all my posts you will never find this.

It is not correct but again who cares, but you will be surprised if I say to you that any Albanians give me support, and appreciate my efforts.

If you want be serious, and really want to know it is better to read next.

Much of the Serbs are of Albanian origin, this is undeniable.

You have genetics and historical records and refute that.

You just love to talk.
 
hrvat22 (or Albanian from Croatia but it doesn't matter)

Now first context. Without context someone know nothing. For example somoene who would study haplogroups todays inhabitants of todays Hungary or Turkey and don’t know context, he or she would be mislead and have drawn entirely wrong conclusions. Without a context someone would be in his fantasies, which is not even amateurish or childish.

Based on the contemporary scientific papers (no Serbian, I very rarely use Serbian sources); only facts

Albanians (Shqiptarët) speakers of Albanian language (Gjuha Shqipe) came to the areas of present day Albania in 6-8 century.

Contemporary science solved almost all enigmas of Albanian (Shqiptarët) homeland, there are only two regions (areas) from which the Albanians (Shqiptarët) could came to the areas of present day Albania in 6th-8th century.

It means Albanians (Shqiptarët) when arrived to Albania are not descendants of Illyrians.

When arrived to areas of present-day Albania in 6-8 century Albanians (Shqiptarët) could found local inhabitants:

Greeks

Romanized Illyrians

Descedents of Romans and other people (from the areas of present day Italy)

It is possible some Aromanians, Slavs, if they arrived in that time, some little ethnic groups etc.

It means that Albanians (Shqiptarët) assimilated local Romanized Iliryans.

As is Serbs, Croats, Slovenes, Bosnians assimilated Romanized Illirians.

Answer for you, Croats have no Albanian blood, Illyrians which Croats assimilated (for example in Dalmatia) have nothing with Albanians (Shqiptarët) who came to Albania in 6th-8th century.

Every nation assimilated Romanized Illyrians how many of them found when this nation came.

Why Romanized? Because Illyrans adopted Latin language till 3rd century, they ceased to exist as political entity.
...

In genetic terms contemporary Albanians have genetics of

Shqiptarët who came in the areas of present day Albania in 6-8 century and

all of above mentioned local people who they found and assimilated.

It is same for every nation who arrive and settle any territory and assimilate locals.

The dilemma of science has remained which area is right homeland of Shqiptarët of these two above mentioned areas. How we are interested in genetics everything will be more precisely known when genetic studies will be made for period 2-6 century in only two possible regions which Albanians (Shqiptarët) settled then and from which they left and after that came to areas of present day Albania.

...
Now when we know context we will understand much easier what genetic genealogy says, about possible movement of haplogroup CTS5856 or any other (too much to insert now).

You anything concrete refute, you just talk.

There exist genetic and historical records, use it as evidence and refute me.

Or go on these topics and refute me.

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/31539-Genetics-confirm-migration-of-White-Croats-to-Croatia

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...bs-Croats-and-I2a2/page20?p=520335#post520335

There is no one there to refute me.

It says that I'm right and I'm telling the truth.
 
Albanians who know me longer know that I don't use Serbian sources, it is true.

Of course I will gave scientific papers where it is written, but it is not for this thread, in any other more appropriate thread, here I only wanted to talk about context because, you can agree, if someone don't know context and discuss about haplogroups his conclusions will be completely wrong, what I will show in first next.

What I have with nationalism, if you want know I was Tito fan, appreciated his courage against Stalin, appreciated brotherhood and unity of all people of ex Yugoslavia, I loved federal state, now I love idea of federal Europe, but for this it is doesn't matter, everyone can be whatever he or she wants.

Talk talk, talk, take a genetics and historical records and begin refute as.
 

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