Post your DNA Land results

Well I'm glad they don't include those groups. If i recall, Malta, Sicily and Cyprus are mediterranean islands. Italy and Egypt aren't. Lol. I don't quite know the story behind the list of populations in the "does not include" list, is it just a reminder that they were able to tell albanians, levantines, etc apart from med islanders? That can't be overly difficult.
 
Well I'm glad they don't include those groups. If i recall, Malta, Sicily and Cyprus are mediterranean islands. Italy and Egypt aren't. Lol. I don't quite know the story behind the list of populations in the "does not include" list, is it just a reminder that they were able to tell albanians, levantines, etc apart from med islanders? That can't be overly difficult.

I presume its all about general autosmal dna which gives (clusters) Sicily and Malta (which happens to be islands) (probably Ashkenazi Jews?....and Cypriots too?) a very similar mix, give and take, similar kind of minestrone, compared to other regions around. Spanish Islands are not included for example. It seems that DNA land are more straight forward and have based their information on similar average regional autosmal results, making new classifications, compared to the more complicated ancestry breakdowns you get say on Gedmatch.
 
I wonder how some other groups score on this. I know that some Spaniards and Portuguese cluster with the Near East on 23andme. It would be interesting to see the scores of people from Ibiza, for example, or people from southern Portugal or parts of Andalucia.

Of course, if they're doing one cluster centered on Iberia, all the minority ancestry might get absorbed by that.
 
@Maleth
You mean just a more "big picture" relationship between people of the eastern mediterranean starting from italy? Makes sense. There's an interesting ashkenazi/Levantine category made up of various levantines, med islanders, and east euros.

@Angela
Spaniards grouping with near easterners? Once again my mind is blown! Are they actual
Spaniards?
 
Davef: @Angela
Spaniards grouping with near easterners? Once again my mind is blown! Are they actual
Spaniards?

Who knows? That's why all analyses of results from "individuals" should come with a huge "BUYER BEWARE" sign. I used to share with someone who said he was, and I saw where he clustered on 23andme's version of a PCA, but how do you verify the ancestry of all four of someone's ancestors ? I also saw some screenshots other people had taken, but again, who knows? I sometimes get the feeling that New Worlders who have minority SSA or Amerindian claim they're actually fully Spanish or Portuguese. I did have a pretty good relationship with a Hispanic person who clustered there although I don't understand why, so maybe some of the screenshots I saw of supposedly "pure" Iberians were actually those of Hispanics. Again, I don't know why they'd cluster there, though. Is it just the few percent of SSA that moves them there?
 
Italian (north)

23andMe - West Eurasian 100%:

South European 38%: Balkan 27%; South/Central European 11%.
Northwest European 31%.
Southwestern European 16%: Southwestern European 8.6%; Sardinian 7.5%.
Ashkenazi/Levantine 14%: Mediterranean Islander 9.2%; Ashkenazi 4.7%.
Kalash 1.3%.

FTDNA - West Eurasian 100%:

South European 58%: South/Central European 40%; Balkan 19%.
Northwest European 27%.
Southwestern European 8.1%: Southwestern European 6.9%; Sardinian 1.2%.
Mediterranean Islander 5.1%.
Ambiguous 1.2%.
 
Who knows? That's why all analyses of results from "individuals" should come with a huge "BUYER BEWARE" sign. I used to share with someone who said he was, and I saw where he clustered on 23andme's version of a PCA, but how do you verify the ancestry of all four of someone's ancestors ? I also saw some screenshots other people had taken, but again, who knows? I sometimes get the feeling that New Worlders who have minority SSA or Amerindian claim they're actually fully Spanish or Portuguese. I did have a pretty good relationship with a Hispanic person who clustered there although I don't understand why, so maybe some of the screenshots I saw of supposedly "pure" Iberians were actually those of Hispanics. Again, I don't know why they'd cluster there, though. Is it just the few percent of SSA that moves them there?

Don't quite see how being a few percent ssa will get you from spain to the Mideast. Did you see his test results?
 
We had a bit of a tiff, so we no longer share. I sensed a lot of racism in the attitudes and the preoccupations...you know, lots of phenotype talk, like who, or what group is more "exotic", that sort of thing. I never understood that. Exotic by whose standards? Is there a template somewhere? Who decided what it should look like? Lots of talk too about how much SSA did X person have versus Y person, or X group versus Y group.

Definitely not stuff I wanted to continue to give head room to, so I cut off communication.
 
We had a bit of a tiff, so we no longer share. I sensed a lot of racism in the attitudes and the preoccupations...you know, lots of phenotype talk, like who, or what group is more "exotic", that sort of thing. I never understood that. Exotic by whose standards? Is there a template somewhere? Who decided what it should look like? Lots of talk too about how much SSA did X person have versus Y person, or X group versus Y group.

Definitely not stuff I wanted to continue to give head room to, so I cut off communication.

Did you see his actual results? Odd for a full Iberian to be that close to near eastern populations. Perhaps he was sephardic...
 
Sephardic? I've never met a Sephardic Jew who considered himself Spanish or spoke Spanish at home or identified with the culture in any way. They're usually from North Africa or with roots in the Near East. They don't live in Spain, and they know a lot less about it than I do. What they might speak is Ladino, which is very different. They're not going to be up on classical Spanish guitar or know all this stuff about small towns in Galicia. The only thing I don't know is if all four grandparents were from Spain. As for the Hispanic person with whom I got friendly, I knew a lot about the background there too, the food, the relatives etc. As for the screen shots I saw, it was all second hand, so who knows, maybe they were all Hispanics and not Spanish at all


What I don't understand is why a Hispanic with only about 4-5% or so SSA and 2-3% Amerindian would plot in the Near East. We tried to figure it out, but couldn't come to any conclusions. I wouldn't go building any conclusions on it; I don't think the 23andme PCA was much good.
 
Sephardic? I've never met a Sephardic Jew who considered himself Spanish or spoke Spanish at home or identified with the culture in any way. They're usually from North Africa or with roots in the Near East. They don't live in Spain, and they know a lot less about it than I do. What they might speak is Ladino, which is very different. They're not going to be up on classical Spanish guitar or know all this stuff about small towns in Galicia. The only thing I don't know is if all four grandparents were from Spain. As for the Hispanic person with whom I got friendly, I knew a lot about the background there too, the food, the relatives etc. As for the screen shots I saw, it was all second hand, so who knows, maybe they were all Hispanics and not Spanish at all


What I don't understand is why a Hispanic with only about 4-5% or so SSA and 2-3% Amerindian would plot in the Near East. We tried to figure it out, but couldn't come to any conclusions. I wouldn't go building any conclusions on it; I don't think the 23andme PCA was much good.
Yeah, just a shot in the dark, really with the sephardic guess. They're the only group I can think of from the "Spanish" world who would plot even remotely middle eastern.

So besides ssa and Native American, is the rest of him european? I know I'm sitting on this but this error makes me question 23 and me even more. Even Native American can't get you to the Middle East bc i doubt modern middle easterners share much if anything with native Americans but a lot of them do have sub Saharan that amounts to something.

Or maybe the pca is plain garbage. Wonder if other calculators plot him in the Middle East. If they plot him in Iberia (ok a bit outwards with the ssa and Native American) then the pca doesn't work properly.
 
Yeah, just a shot in the dark, really with the sephardic guess. They're the only group I can think of from the "Spanish" world who would plot even remotely middle eastern.

So besides ssa and Native American, is the rest of him european? I know I'm sitting on this but this error makes me question 23 and me even more. Even Native American can't get you to the Middle East bc i doubt modern middle easterners share much if anything with native Americans but a lot of them do have sub Saharan that amounts to something.

Or maybe the pca is plain garbage. Wonder if other calculators plot him in the Middle East. If they plot him in Iberia (ok a bit outwards with the ssa and Native American) then the pca doesn't work properly.

Well, I wouldn't go so far as all that. Here's a Behar PCA. Quite a few of the Spanish samples are quite close to the Middle Eastern samples. It depends what reference samples you have, the number of samples etc. I grant you this is very different from what we usually see, but it's just to show the differences that can exist. Part of it may be because the reference sample for Spaniards that is usually used is half Catalan, so I don't know how representative it is of the whole country. That's drastically overweighting it with one of the more "northern" groups.

In the case of 23andme most of their reference samples are their own clients, so it's going to be different from a random sample chosen by scientists, although in the case of 23andme you're going to have a lot more samples than the researchers normally get. Another thing that occurs to me is that the 23andme PCA might have had a combined Near East/North African area. Maybe those particular Spanish samples were plotting with North Africans. That just occurred to me, by the way, but I can't check it because they've removed that feature. Too bad.

http://i.imgur.com/aNaQLL6.jpg
aNaQLL6.jpg
 
Well, I wouldn't go so far as all that. Here's a Behar PCA. Quite a few of the Spanish samples are quite close to the Middle Eastern samples. It depends what reference samples you have, the number of samples etc. I grant you this is very different from what we usually see, but it's just to show the differences that can exist. Part of it may be because the reference sample for Spaniards that is usually used is half Catalan, so I don't know how representative it is of the whole country. That's drastically overweighting it with one of the more "northern" groups.

In the case of 23andme most of their reference samples are their own clients, so it's going to be different from a random sample chosen by scientists, although in the case of 23andme you're going to have a lot more samples than the researchers normally get. Another thing that occurs to me is that the 23andme PCA might have had a combined Near East/North African area. Maybe those particular Spanish samples were plotting with North Africans. That just occurred to me, by the way, but I can't check it because they've removed that feature. Too bad.

http://i.imgur.com/aNaQLL6.jpg
aNaQLL6.jpg

Those maps are interesting but weird...in the left pca, some of those Spaniards are sitting in with the south italians, cypriots and jews and Georgians are surprisingly european. I can't judge correctness, but it's quite a surprise.

And those North Africans you mentioned probably had spanish heritage...or the Spaniards who clustered with those had North African heritage. Or spain isn't as homogenous as one would expect.
 
Then again I know pca's can distort things...a half Saudi half irish individual would probably plot in Cyprus or something. You can't make a cypriot out of an irish parent and a Saudi parent. That's insane.
 
Actually, in this particular PCA, there are three Italian clusters, ITA A, B, and T, which is Tuscan. All three of them are north of those Spanish samples that are drifting among the Cypriots and some toward the Armenians. The main Spanish cluster is with the Tuscans. I don't know the geographical location from which those samples came.

Like I said, it all depends on the samples you have. 23andme may in some instances have more, but they weren't randomly chosen. Behar had their own set. The set that is often used in academic studies is heavily weighted toward Catalans.

Then there's methodology to consider. As I said, I can't remember if the 23andme "PCA" type feature combined the Near East and North Africa.

Then, with 23andme, as I also said, when person X says, these are my results and I'm from place Y, there's no way of verifying if that's the truth, or even if they themselves are aware of the specific regional or ethnic ancestry of all four of their grandparents.

So, it's as well to take a lot of this stuff with a huge grain of salt, imo.
 
Yeah samples matter. I wonder if the cypriots in that study have greek blood? They're in line with south italians but in most maps they usually plot south of any european. And Spaniards usually are a bit higher than north italians in most other maps but those are likely the Catalans you mentioned.

Then again I think reading percentages and numbers would be more informative. A half orcadian half Lebanese would plot as north as Georgian jews in the left map while still having higher north european percentages than them. Its a matter of having enough Levantine blood to plot there.

PCAs only say where one plots, not why. At least that's my guess. The explaination rests on actual numbers and percentages. Am I right?
 
Yeah samples matter. I wonder if the cypriots in that study have greek blood? They're in line with south italians but in most maps they usually plot south of any european. And Spaniards usually are a bit higher than north italians in most other maps but those are likely the Catalans you mentioned.

Then again I think reading percentages and numbers would be more informative. A half orcadian half Lebanese would plot as north as Georgian jews in the left map while still having higher north european percentages than them. Its a matter of having enough Levantine blood to plot there.

PCAs only say where one plots, not why. At least that's my guess. The explaination rests on actual numbers and percentages. Am I right?

Generally true, I think, but again, what is being relied upon? If it's the same old unverifiable results from something like Gedmatch, how reliable are those percentages?

As I pointed out above, someone tells you he's 100% X ancestry. How do you know that's true? Maybe three grandparents are from that region, but one isn't. Or, the person publishing that information may not be being truthful. It's a sad fact that this hobby is riddled with racists of one variety or another, or just seriously neurotic, if not psychotic people. We've had some recent "unmaskings" right here on this board. Would you rely on something relayed to you by a person like that? I wouldn't.

Then, it's an Admixture program, which can be useful, but definitely has its limitations. The results have to be interpreted by someone who understands Admixture, not some half educated yahoo on the internet. Where the samples were taken is also very important. To use our example from above, how representative of the Spanish as a whole is a sample that is 50% Catalan? Also, who created it? Was the sampling balanced, or was it done to "highlight" certain ancestry? A whole article was issued recently pointing out the errors that academics have made in running Admixture and drawing conclusions from it, so how much worse are the problems in amateur created programs?

The problem with genetic genealogy is that genetic results are being "interpreted" or disseminated by people who either don't have the background to understand the material, or have ulterior motives. I've personally seen people disseminate absolutely falsely labeled material. Why would I accept anything a person like that presents as "proof".

It's like a witness who impeaches himself or herself.

Just look at people who have posted here presuming to instruct the rest of us what people from various parts of Italy look like, when they've never set foot in the country in their entire lives. And no, it isn't the same thing to be around some Italian Americans in one particular American city. I've lived among them, married among them, and most of them, unless they're in their 90's and actually did the immigrating, don't have a clue in what particular towns in Sicily, for example, each of their four grandparents originated. All my husband knew was the province. It's pathetic. Plus, this is going to be a subset, and not necessarily a representative subset. Then, the idiocy continues by comparing their appearance with that of various middle easterners, of whom they've probably met a handful in their lives. The chutzpah is pretty amazing.

So, always, it's a case of "buyer beware". The gullibility of people in this field, even academics at times, is really astounding. They need to spend a couple of months in any criminal fraud bureau.
 
I am sorry but what iberian result are you people discussing. Maybe I look bad for asking but I did not see any in this thread.
 
@suebilking
It's ok, the result is only mentond of in this thread, it isn't displayed.

@angels
True! I know that italy itself is very diverse and you get phenotypes of all sorts (basing this off of my limited knowledge).

Also, in the map to the right, the Spaniards in fact DO plot north of Tuscans abs south italians plot north of cypriots but why? Were different samples being used or is it that different areas of the genome were being analyzed?
 

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