The Coming of the Anglo-Saxons to Britain

Thanks King John!

I can't wait to get this 'Saxon paper samples' in G25 and other analysis instruments, especially because it contains more than 20 early middle age samples of my hometown Groningen. So it reveals not only things about the English ancestry, also about the North Dutch!


What I expect to see in this respect is this. Julius Caesar coined Germani for the right side of the Rhine. Tacitus already stated it loud and clear, the name Germani was artificial and forced up on the tribes above the Rhine. The ones who assimilated into the Roman empire had no choice but to accept this label. At the end the Roman period, the Roman army had loads of Germani foederati. But the Romans left the scene and there was a severe population decline in the Dutch area. Tribes like the old Frisii even disappeared from the archeological radar.


And there was another big factor! From the Danish/North German "bottleneck" a bunch of pirates- to be known as Saxons- came in, and ruled the scene around the North Sea. The old Germani- between Rhine and Weser- gathered around the flag of the "free Franks" under their warlords like "rex foederatus" Childeric they partly moved away SW wards were Childeric became dux Belgica secundus. His son Clovis became the first king of the Franks.


So in fact the Saxon invaders and the Franks are not to be lumped together under the Germani label (no genetic one size fits all). They preferred their own label derived from PIE *teuta and Proto-Germanic *theudō, like Dutch, Deutsch, or Teuton, and means something like tribe or folk. The (hated) label German(i) became in disuse until the early modern period. The Saxons spoke also different. *theudo corresponds to the Old English adjective þeodisc "belonging to the people," which was used especially of the common language of Germanic people (as opposed to Latin), a derivative of the Old English noun þeod "people, race, nation." The language name is first attested in Latin as theodice (786 C.E.) in correspondence between Charlemagne's court and the Pope, in reference to a synodical conference in Mercia; thus it refers to Old English. Its first use in reference to a German language (as opposed to a Germanic one) is two years later. That's the difference between old English/ old Frisian on he one hand and old Frankish (that was early Latinised) on the other.


In genetic sense this means that the Saxon factor- called CNE in the paper- will be prevalent (80-90%) in the outmost North Dutch area of Friesland, Groningen and Drenthe (the paper includes samples of Mildum Friesland and Groningen). But who knows....can't wait to see the near analysis of the samples.
 
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Thanks King John!

I can't wait to get this 'Saxon paper samples' in G25 and other analysis instruments, especially because it contains more than 20 early middle age samples of my hometown Groningen. So it reveals not only things about the English ancestry, also about the North Dutch!


What I expect to see in this respect is this. Julius Caesar coined Germani for the right side of the Rhine. Tacitus already stated it loud and clear, the name Germani was artificial and forced up on the tribes above the Rhine. The ones who assimilated into the Roman empire had no choice but to accept this label. At the end the Roman period, the Roman army had loads of Germani foederati. But the Romans left the scene and there was a severe population decline in the Dutch area. Tribes like the old Frisii even disappeared from the archeological radar.


And there was another big factor! From the Danish/North German "bottleneck" a bunch of pirates- to be known as Saxons- came in, and ruled the scene around the North Sea. The old Germani- between Rhine and Weser- gathered around the flag of the "free Franks" under their warlords like "rex foederatus" Childeric they partly moved away SW wards were Childeric became dux Belgica secundus. His son Clovis became the first king of the Franks.


So in fact the Saxon invaders and the Franks are not to be lumped together under the Germani label (no genetic one size fits all). They preferred their own label derived from PIE *teuta and Proto-Germanic *theudō, like Dutch, Deutsch, or Teuton, and means something like tribe or folk. The (hated) label German(i) became in disuse until the early modern period. The Saxons spoke also different. *theudo corresponds to the Old English adjective þeodisc "belonging to the people," which was used especially of the common language of Germanic people (as opposed to Latin), a derivative of the Old English noun þeod "people, race, nation." The language name is first attested in Latin as theodice (786 C.E.) in correspondence between Charlemagne's court and the Pope, in reference to a synodical conference in Mercia; thus it refers to Old English. Its first use in reference to a German language (as opposed to a Germanic one) is two years later. That's the difference between old English/ old Frisian on he one hand and old Frankish (that was early Latinised) on the other.


In genetic sense this means that the Saxon factor- called CNE in the paper- will be prevalent (80-90%) in the outmost North Dutch area of Friesland, Groningen and Drenthe (the paper includes samples of Mildum Friesland and Groningen). But who knows....can't wait to see the near analysis of the samples.

yes it should be cool:cool-v:
but at the moment i am not 100% confidant on his y calls anlaysis
so i will wait for the full paper to be published
one thing for sure that even if teepean47 have some mistakes
here and there in his present analysis
the picture is pretty clear r1b and I-m170 are the main y haplogroups
 
This results fit in a pattern that I had already noticed, and is that pure English(Anglosaxon) aren't all that common as you'd think.
From an ethnic point of view, British is the correct way to call them in many instances.

I say this because I've come across to a lot of British DNA test results, and most of them seem to be a mix of English + Irish, Scottish and Welsh.
Only some times you find someone who is majority English, usually accompanied of a big chunk of Scandinavian.
 
iDDvLM4.jpg


Eurogenes K36 results shared so far

Code:
Denmark_Zealand_Sct._Clements_Copenhagen:KPN005,0.22,0,0,0,1.35,11.34,0,0,0,0,8.49,0,6.68,15.07,8.37,11.09,0,4.61,0,0,0,16.23,0,14.47,0,0.33,0,0,0,0.21,0,0,1.53,0,0,0
Germany_Lower_Saxony_Drantum:DRU015,0,0.5,0,1.42,0.91,7.59,0,0,1.58,1.14,4.27,0,4.64,18.06,7.94,4.7,0.21,7.25,0,0,0,10.28,4.77,19.79,0,1.28,0,0.12,0,0,1.46,0.37,0,0.26,0,1.45
Germany_Lower_Saxony_Hannover-Anderten:ADN001,0.12,0.68,0.71,1.25,0,4.95,0,0,2.41,0,2.04,0.67,5.1,7.42,9.8,15.68,0,10.02,0,1.15,0,10.25,7.52,15.2,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.31,0,1.03,0,2.04,1.67
Germany_Lower_Saxony_Hannover-Anderten:ADN002,0.41,0,0,0.79,0,10.52,0,0,0.77,0,4.51,0,3.78,12.48,2.56,15.17,0,1,0,0,0.36,16.51,3.35,23.9,0,0,0,0,0,0,3.49,0,0.38,0,0,0
Germany_Lower_Saxony_Hannover-Anderten:ADN003,0.06,0,0,0,0,8.89,0,0,6.35,0,1.54,0,4.55,15.76,4.37,10.84,0,8.67,0,0,0,13.49,0.37,23.91,0,0,0.6,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.62,0,0
Germany_Lower_Saxony_Hannover-Anderten:ADN004,0,0,0,0.39,0,12.73,0,0,2.69,0,10.78,0,4.1,12.73,5.62,4.27,0,4.18,0,0,1.22,18.01,3.9,19.09,0,0,0,0,0,0.08,0.21,0,0,0,0,0
Germany_Lower_Saxony_Hannover-Anderten:ADN005,0,0.14,0,2.17,0,6.29,0,0,1.44,0,4.36,0,1.33,14.43,10.1,12.18,0,8.55,0,0,0.91,13.47,3.01,18.94,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,2.67
Germany_Mecklenburg-Vorpommern_Haeven:HVN001,1.94,0,0,0.7,0,4.37,2.95,0,0,0,12.49,0,0,14.49,4.7,4.97,0,13.83,0,0,0,17.2,0,20.09,0,0.56,0,0,0,0,0.55,0,0.67,0.48,0,0
Germany_North_Rhine-Westphalia_Alt-Inden:IND009,0.05,8.12,5.59,2.4,0,0,0,0,0.52,0,0,14.71,0,0,4.75,9.41,0,24.86,1.22,7.88,2.16,0,1.02,0,0.14,0.35,0,0.03,0,0,0,0,0,0,9.33,7.47
Germany_North_Rhine-Westphalia_Alt-Inden:IND010,1.61,2.93,2.21,0.71,0,1.95,0,0,0.7,0,9.58,0,5.33,5.62,4.05,1.5,0,18.03,0,0.35,0,7.62,14.57,11.53,0,0.32,0,0,1.17,0,2.77,0,4.6,1.39,0,1.47
Germany_Schleswig-Holstein_Schleswig_Rathausmarkt:SWG008,0.03,0,0.15,0.78,0,5.49,0,0,0,0,8.06,0,3.18,9.14,10.91,11.57,0,0.35,0,0,0,19.39,5.28,24.68,0,0.03,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.52,0.46,0,0
Ireland_Roscommon_Kilteasheen_The_Bishop's_Seat:KIL025,0.97,0,0,3.67,0.51,3.88,0,0,0,0,5.45,0,5.91,10.74,8.79,15.16,0,1.27,0,0,0,15.98,0,21.96,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.33,0,1.32,0,0,4.06
Netherlands_Friesland_Midlum:MDM003,0,0,0,0,0,7.74,0,0,0,0,9.68,0,0,8.93,7.35,15.35,0,2.29,0,0,0,16.99,0,26.1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,5.57,0,0,0
Netherlands_Groningen:GRO001,0,0,0,2.77,0,11.30,0,0,2.32,0,1.90,0,6.79,9.93,13.93,7.29,0,2.94,0,0,0,14.42,0,26.41,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
Netherlands_Groningen:GRO002,0,0,0,2.28,0,8.11,0,0,0,0,1.94,0,9.00,14.59,12.33,6.38,0,0,0,0,0,15.74,0,28.99,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.64,0,0,0,0,0
Netherlands_Groningen:GRO004,0.20,0,0,3.73,0,16.55,0,0,4.55,0,1.46,0,0,13.50,0,14.70,0,4.60,0,0,0,11.92,6.42,19.72,0,0.40,0,0,0,0,1.28,0,0.95,0,0,0
Netherlands_Groningen:GRO005,0.17,0,0,1.73,0,4.04,0,0,0,0,7.82,0,2.49,17.92,9.10,10.79,0,7.47,0,0,0,12.77,2.93,22.77,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
Netherlands_Groningen:GRO006,0,0,0,0,0,4.20,0.65,0,2.43,0,0.55,0,8.90,1.86,4.38,17.87,0,12.17,0,3.11,0,18.64,4.31,17.61,0,0.08,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,3.24
Netherlands_Groningen:GRO007,0,0,0,4.52,0,3.04,0,0,5.48,0,2.66,0,6.62,11.35,5.94,5.71,0,6.09,0,0,0,20.68,0,25.08,0,0.08,0,0,0,0,2.75,0,0,0,0,0
Netherlands_Groningen:GRO008,0,0,0.06,1.10,0,11.53,0,0,0,0,8.50,0,8.05,13.57,8.21,5.99,0,5.95,0,0,0,15.73,0,21.30,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
Netherlands_Groningen:GRO010,0,0,0,5.60,0,5.00,0,0,1.40,0,7.35,0,4.57,10.49,2.36,13.55,0,5.78,0,0,0,16.13,0,22.86,0,0.04,0.62,0,0,0,1.38,0,2.43,0,0,0.45
Netherlands_Groningen:GRO012,0,0,0,1.04,0,7.92,0,0,4.30,0,4.09,1.27,4.46,10.87,6.78,9.94,0,10.54,0,0,0,20.62,1.50,14.71,0,0.04,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1.93,0
Netherlands_Groningen:GRO013,0,0,0,3.57,0,6.07,0,0,3.75,0,0.28,0,4.15,16.65,6.23,6.50,0,7.91,0,0,0,20.64,2.42,21.28,0,0,0.55,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
Netherlands_Groningen:GRO014,0,0,0,4.81,0,7.30,0,0,0,0,4.60,0,2.88,16.96,6.53,0,0,10.02,0,0,0.17,17.77,3.51,23.98,0,0,0,0,0,0,1.46,0,0,0,0,0
Netherlands_Groningen:GRO015,0,0,0,0,0,6.17,0,0,0,0,12.43,0,3.86,15.96,8.23,8.65,0,10.49,0,0,0,12.77,5.08,15.75,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.61
Netherlands_Groningen:GRO016,0,0,0,3.23,0,4.76,0,0,1.96,0,5.85,0,7.07,14.21,9.26,12.55,0,7.26,0,0,0,16.91,0,15.11,0,0,0,0.98,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.86
Netherlands_Groningen:GRO017,0,0,0,1.28,0,11.18,0,0,2.91,0,4.28,0,5.48,12.25,8.24,7.35,0,0.71,0,0,0,17.27,2.60,23.99,0,0.39,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.02,0,2.05
Netherlands_Groningen:GRO019,0,0,0,3.85,0,4.48,0,0,0,0,3.57,0,5.87,17.13,9.68,7.59,0,0,0,0,0,18.62,0,26.67,0,0.23,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,2.31
Netherlands_Groningen:GRO020,0.05,0,0,4.21,0,12.11,0,0,0.49,0,0.48,0,10.83,9.65,5.18,4.44,0,14.24,0,0,0,15.18,6.02,16.77,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.33,0,0,0
Netherlands_Groningen:GRO021,0,0,0,0,0,0.34,0,0,1.28,0,4.78,0,6.22,25.48,9.27,0.21,0,0.22,0,0,0,19.24,0.91,29.02,0,0,0,0,0,0,3.04,0,0,0,0,0
Netherlands_Groningen:GRO021,0,0,0,0,0,0.34,0,0,1.46,0,4.66,0,6.21,25.61,9.26,0.11,0,0.34,0,0,0,19.16,0.56,29.19,0,0,0,0,0,0,3.09,0,0,0,0,0
Netherlands_Groningen:GRO023,0,0,0,1.42,0,2.88,0,0,1.68,0,7.80,0,1.70,9.21,5.24,16.36,0,11.65,0,0,0,9.40,3.97,24.19,0,0,0,0,0,1.21,3.28,0,0,0,0,0
Netherlands_Groningen:GRO024,0,0,0,3.49,0,7.74,0,0,1.58,0,2.41,0,4.95,6.91,7.17,12.93,0,11.19,0,0,0,16.02,2.23,15.09,0,0,0,0.76,0,0,0,0,0,0,1.99,5.54
United_Kingdom_Cornwall_Bude_Widemouth_Bay:S16383,0.31,0,0,0,0.35,11.32,0,0,6.28,0,7.04,0,3.03,17.11,3.51,10.65,0,8.45,0.38,0,0,14.07,0,17.23,0,0,0.27,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
United_Kingdom_Cornwall_Newquay_Crantock:S16389,0.6,0,0,0.3,0,0,0,0,0,0,6.51,0,9.46,6.75,8.67,15.47,0,2.98,0,0,0,23.88,5.36,17.83,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,2.18
United_Kingdom_Kent_Eastry_Updown:EAS006,0.38,0,0,4.14,0,7.76,0,0.64,6.39,0,8.02,0,0,10.62,5.8,5.45,0,11.51,0.69,0,0,12.71,3.3,21.67,0,0,0,0.63,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.07,0.22
United_Kingdom_Yorkshire_Ribblesdale_Selside_Grike:S3056,0,0.04,3.01,5.9,0,9.18,0,0,0.32,0,2.61,6.29,0,10.2,8.41,15.69,0,24.84,2.92,0.42,0,3.89,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1.19,0,5.09

Simulated Global25

Code:
Denmark_Zealand_Sct._Clements_Copenhagen:KPN005,0.12126734230100009,0.126400310746,0.06815406451239998,0.05673061660299984,0.03967934969200001,0.01941477885198,0.004841459072000034,0.008676341479000042,0.006726588121000018,-0.006957285094000046,-0.00457276917922,0.0015010473879999674,-0.005575341534999989,-0.006271501663999878,0.014986400522000039,0.006137275322000008,-0.005582998214000014,0.00034287060499990987,0.0015085740290000126,0.002808230159000003,0.004789307143000129,0.0022120296140001276,0.0005955963029999709,0.011024244068999982,0.0003690130449999912
Germany_Lower_Saxony_Drantum:DRU015,0.11712513177599998,0.11251144338699999,0.05608865255919999,0.04885193702199954,0.03541336137400001,0.01187899688308,0.005877883738000023,0.007306278536000134,0.0014843286339999966,-0.004765883362000258,-0.006027057867908001,0.0037584834319999644,-0.008257386306000017,-0.006697537040999419,0.01680554183899992,0.007122593042000101,-0.004858203490999965,0.0016554391979998646,0.002727096566999976,0.004726395787999993,0.0036339938510003902,0.0029147303849999945,0.001271752406999989,0.012229701519999981,0.0008064481799994888
Germany_Lower_Saxony_Hannover-Anderten:ADN001,0.12704971217800004,0.133915554087,0.046641851359800014,0.026765983198999893,0.029246860448399997,0.010309248169099991,0.0036967839989999066,0.004035852236000068,0.00043457998200001693,0.0038866707529996887,-0.002653288927647999,0.005555947531999959,-0.012194619351000014,-0.014132430844999058,0.014705207066999872,0.00224635187400013,-0.004136406957999935,0.0005904479669999307,0.00014909206400000536,0.0032460015431999955,0.0035565058080005325,0.004026315233999999,0.00015582989100002605,0.009118560162000012,-0.0011413168490000403
Germany_Lower_Saxony_Hannover-Anderten:ADN002,0.12820009892500023,0.128329021831,0.059795126406799994,0.053061987312000014,0.0339117268504,0.02147543287056001,0.0032453854449999396,0.0043440808199999015,0.00268365287099993,-0.003403274468999921,-0.0064123042420999995,0.004541485132999961,-0.010065535607999998,-0.011769308505000083,0.025976017332999986,0.009407368372000085,-0.009066188850000064,0.0010798513990001217,0.0008293166959999447,0.0037774587469999923,0.0065773041420005614,0.001670961139999969,0.0007140875429999716,0.01293651960699998,0.0006821236520000388
Germany_Lower_Saxony_Hannover-Anderten:ADN003,0.12442546752500008,0.132700772535,0.06355083242640003,0.04644717060699981,0.038544572108999996,0.017039489083239996,0.004786563446999976,0.006281439778000044,0.00494511044800005,-0.000016382599999842894,-0.004462400734768,0.0044160609679999956,-0.009267013831000018,-0.010420216571999433,0.01741652652599999,0.0067511588370001135,-0.005277106244000124,0.0020396966740000707,0.004184332388000002,0.003225090535999997,0.002974708926000099,0.00388572517400005,0.002350245193999968,0.015363155904999985,-0.0007227590640000725
Germany_Lower_Saxony_Hannover-Anderten:ADN004,0.13111733144600007,0.13372766340400002,0.06435329387519999,0.05357680716499989,0.0393091611438,0.022163363218560005,0.005691258676000011,0.007494390438000158,0.0002897859189997698,-0.007853019753000325,-0.00720428398542,0.0019398057729999442,-0.005589946947000005,0.0016133396690005972,0.01796514975500009,0.0063379338110000905,-0.005716760856000212,0.0012871606629999955,0.0026396691080000263,0.004725475968,0.0034386092659997925,-0.0010642881480002375,0.002865737652999995,0.014713081340000017,-0.00007166774000014718
Germany_Lower_Saxony_Hannover-Anderten:ADN005,0.12923894661099994,0.137377576818,0.06071238271780004,0.03919227727300007,0.041026459705000004,0.015029370902619998,0.003631320748999958,0.005809442037000179,0.007658648047000106,0.007317829461000062,-0.0047351286865439995,0.005971864973999989,-0.013167418762999991,-0.01090836685200005,0.01994029806800007,0.00580483960500006,-0.006572865332999962,0.0013242877209998574,0.001597964419000007,0.0034506611908000006,0.005327879599999821,0.001584209897000019,0.000457280155999956,0.011759264873000021,0.0006659498789998372
Germany_Mecklenburg-Vorpommern_Haeven:HVN001,0.10967172907500004,0.124498643377,0.0627730539546,0.05187911384199991,0.03831339362359999,0.016416162177599995,-0.0016872500639999622,-0.000375177967999938,0.005592179462999963,-0.004923355287999881,-0.005403114185659999,0.0034603751570000114,-0.008441245437999997,-0.0018519704459999085,0.016287131791999983,0.0026845542350000164,-0.009110256671000013,0.0010952553400000783,0.0037923582670000133,0.00017864901400000685,0.003599829932999933,0.0010735929249999334,0.0009311337949999927,0.012201788981000043,0.0005393443939995576
Germany_North_Rhine-Westphalia_Alt-Inden:IND009,0.10363502073000004,0.14205742519,-0.017762848254999988,-0.05652852036000018,0.014224822351999997,-0.021834529696000003,-0.0012236656149999872,-0.0032041496689999838,0.007899831834000129,0.025457043917000252,0.005245050062511998,0.003197305733999959,-0.005275135931999992,-0.0017417438739998348,-0.008613251722000073,-0.003673811377000076,0.0024121821140000582,0.0006536291829999652,0.0013943595279999818,0.0006175534055999996,0.0012496697269999135,0.0026427517660000746,-0.001964818768999999,-0.004566381558000047,-0.001969338779999788
Germany_North_Rhine-Westphalia_Alt-Inden:IND010,0.11240404993500022,0.10841151263000001,0.0389532564354,0.028115621314999794,0.010836386836000016,0.007959278031620002,0.0009019832429999972,-0.00004432735900014931,-0.012194488877999777,-0.01244302215799981,0.0029091115067719996,0.0003488331690000108,0.0014109630809999816,-0.010893997979999952,0.002022720554000046,-0.002900364757999799,-0.004053742994999953,-0.0007479622069999654,-0.002118695113999986,-0.0020352907259000045,-0.002862233591000081,0.007098542613999939,0.00029458009599998836,0.007855569989999929,-0.004721629953999929
Germany_Schleswig-Holstein_Schleswig_Rathausmarkt:SWG008,0.12823085630900005,0.13577134812199998,0.0643822047362,0.05388132985699992,0.03893340346860002,0.022205784311939994,0.004011313696999997,0.006540590820000042,0.00016372220400002156,-0.0034600088839999493,-0.006492916829072001,0.005205403540999961,-0.012468482052000015,-0.012262408265000049,0.028834180649000066,0.006574885676000004,-0.011579094017999853,0.0014668017659999638,0.0003913426949999516,0.005119250419999985,0.0073141118989997625,0.0018181170620000138,-0.0001730269520000263,0.015119318426999987,0.000520813462999821
Ireland_Roscommon_Kilteasheen_The_Bishop's_Seat:KIL025,0.12689175063100003,0.13106914019399998,0.06837867144880001,0.04927903372399969,0.04210747804560001,0.018024170981780004,0.0004616361519999522,0.0037657167070001343,0.010188795364999871,0.00510559793499997,-0.0041891195376799984,0.005500149524000025,-0.011887202709000004,-0.016166172905999837,0.022217559757000127,0.00545694328299999,-0.009634116405999912,0.0010874596929999966,-0.00040137869200001543,0.0017872694140000172,0.00681613032200061,0.0033965496880000758,-0.0018558466130000166,0.008042290069999984,0.0008046962809998073
Netherlands_Friesland_Midlum:MDM003,0.1315760736740002,0.132922857899,0.0706281081482,0.05623030537399987,0.0394553597246,0.02106627197514,0.006292402042000048,0.008699859776000032,0.005278815012000129,-0.0029049735999999438,-0.0027911507812999987,0.003742622801999995,-0.00709225294200002,-0.023566101759999597,0.021839127391999898,0.004489342904000063,-0.010733138876000033,0.00026510248200003333,-0.0045165203990000045,-0.0006263547360000083,0.005672439343999955,0.007495902227999965,-0.004376450095999972,0.01248172984399994,-0.002063629240000059
Netherlands_Groningen:GRO001,0.13312497123000003,0.13571030878,0.067056533294,0.051814147629999696,0.042290760559,0.020203081253019995,0.004390490530000041,0.006522507590000032,0.005490216440000029,0.001050902300000045,-0.00690033092612,0.005798877529999968,-0.012522602000000032,-0.013226046099999555,0.02482535807000011,0.010906682780000093,-0.006238318480000005,0.0028251554700000625,0.0036438832200000257,0.005383273252,0.007005544079999926,0.0029070102699999267,0.0004244499600000104,0.01711409928000006,0.0005944881000000679
Netherlands_Groningen:GRO002,0.13284431964700014,0.130969344005,0.0715444116146,0.06134260440699988,0.04030252990300001,0.02346762738233999,0.004820282915000011,0.007776576179999871,0.003963358778000082,-0.004337348669999951,-0.00569824215724,0.005093660808000047,-0.011147577914999986,-0.015883200637999945,0.028525969243999978,0.010773655295000075,-0.009615125204000076,0.0025054971819999166,0.0025808004139999652,0.006075705053999992,0.008437062640000126,0.003739994913999921,0.0007626559299999888,0.01659570407699996,0.00132049881799998
Netherlands_Groningen:GRO004,0.12965187628700006,0.129091294236,0.05503918619900001,0.04165340586700007,0.034678475378,0.014052984424319999,0.004599874469000058,0.003877728831999966,0.0028343600299998977,0.000904547490000145,-0.006634765233568001,0.005539591999999989,-0.010644673518999961,-0.010118111065999316,0.018819466591999862,0.00843583403300006,-0.0028116862499999364,0.0013124574379998252,0.0010288829349999868,0.004244227729999989,0.0043021702480000035,0.0039220338439999725,0.00010614994800002163,0.01395169789700003,-0.0017698156939999973
Netherlands_Groningen:GRO005,0.13130795800399986,0.13332893857800002,0.0666726425596,0.051973212304000094,0.03996287662100001,0.01977612977111999,0.004325288992000076,0.006234280136000053,0.0037874549519998912,-0.0011869883000001358,-0.004772893216592,0.004398207581999991,-0.010145043632000018,-0.008393599259999718,0.021848970532000134,0.005988040644000103,-0.00886159114600013,0.0014519018720000054,0.0020008690659999925,0.004841935673999997,0.006295908723999877,0.0019231765580000615,0.0012126987739999456,0.01202804454399993,0.0012020937599999115
Netherlands_Groningen:GRO006,0.1234040018400002,0.139312769208,0.04974581296340001,0.02726176459600032,0.034666349673,0.010404660640040003,0.0022398498040000145,0.0039076389520000775,0.006266742475999787,0.008068420569000152,-0.0033698983908839997,0.0067268669749999625,-0.014167826513000038,-0.014816570890999567,0.017689848825999964,0.0020875138950000073,-0.007808096994999923,0.0005666975120000202,0.0019134583479999646,0.00016599669999999792,0.0027919581790002007,0.003171086583000124,0.0011411314250000136,0.01151991130499997,-0.0007452127979998141
Netherlands_Groningen:GRO007,0.1321577834110001,0.132236975615,0.06178435091439999,0.05239394920799989,0.03747933358399999,0.02055653631048,0.004762398847000026,0.006312508523999921,0.002644314200999958,-0.0007240767189998117,-0.004649503349879999,0.00526902617300002,-0.011269450650000012,-0.013004679538999336,0.023495814536999834,0.006140610872000064,-0.01222403360400017,0.002858513674999865,0.003555545214000006,0.0009603588649999971,0.0040798861780000015,0.00363778650399995,0.001293597823000002,0.015120578429000026,0.0001705671200001868
Netherlands_Groningen:GRO008,0.13324691428700006,0.13342843407700003,0.06997387834980003,0.05734304084299996,0.042048577181999995,0.022383547805380006,0.005496544464999989,0.008029817554000063,0.0038341408159998924,-0.00543905786200008,-0.00624275651202,0.0024447491859999615,-0.00643401388699999,-0.002876344597999736,0.01869864360200002,0.007907884501000079,-0.006003180110000228,0.0018277103200001754,0.003732614856000009,0.004624050023000002,0.005460915980000258,0.0008308878820000032,0.0020767035879999535,0.013583080990999974,0.0007745753439998837
Netherlands_Groningen:GRO010,0.12803390235800002,0.13235708977100002,0.06538401955300002,0.05102001878400002,0.03971648428639999,0.018935003777879995,0.005216495804000012,0.007074635906000025,0.007161360281999761,0.00008910428800013113,-0.0036914789171999993,0.004159089378000012,-0.007907814602999984,-0.014991075017999511,0.020155959561999837,0.0036156336920000116,-0.010266887583999944,0.001478120531999809,-0.0008501318110000005,-0.00001820858099999803,0.004466010060000153,0.005090752921999911,-0.001472318749999953,0.00900584433200001,-0.0010649536440000091
Netherlands_Groningen:GRO012,0.13171913770800006,0.13659524954000002,0.056715837150000004,0.04014874034399963,0.03705798964999999,0.015981803379719998,0.004807413766,0.005943734672000128,0.002184566007999926,0.0016496193280000314,-0.004688322288220001,0.004502333734000029,-0.011915967388000024,-0.00687506293199968,0.016659887026000023,0.00285619346600003,-0.007374157952000009,0.0018857358999999126,0.003405606021999981,0.0023712798912000023,0.0034405038040003152,0.0024156529919999014,0.0014873451740000003,0.013966096172000064,-0.0005763066400003639
Netherlands_Groningen:GRO013,0.13015744165700016,0.13253313581900003,0.06425043836300001,0.048695595407000025,0.037683056181000006,0.018548658555640005,0.005075647511000025,0.006062316078000198,0.0035347800160000515,-0.00042022355000008015,-0.004093067723368,0.005868134265999988,-0.013154141021000022,-0.014418328329999527,0.023729719276000094,0.00523246885700014,-0.010315995878000042,0.002688395786000099,0.0028720105979999693,0.0031016047259999984,0.004943850292000248,0.0052032063140000405,0.0010535918919999797,0.01764422663700005,-0.0005638916699999188
Netherlands_Groningen:GRO014,0.13276819171800017,0.131979855537,0.063280230284,0.05292371580199978,0.036747759931000004,0.02108017854081999,0.005274595762000009,0.006261986951,0.00007349602500004646,-0.0034839313829999226,-0.005436501313404,0.005821535644000028,-0.011654483512999997,-0.010001131776000018,0.024250626805999796,0.006444210398000168,-0.010436446758999934,0.002665284938999984,0.003168692621,0.0034558352550000063,0.005530976928000211,0.0037230754009998975,0.001095452479999961,0.017266106772000012,-0.00021931700499988258
Netherlands_Groningen:GRO015,0.13131397311699997,0.13367797853900001,0.0634283334556,0.04913245701699985,0.038484745725000005,0.019432774915020004,0.005634641751000011,0.0074176179379999985,0.0008073610459999967,-0.004891510159999978,-0.004858595371231999,0.0019854985759999713,-0.006181153873999988,0.0010891742700004665,0.01405852935599999,0.0036354335070001124,-0.005642818568000047,0.0007945991560001095,0.002734738667999983,0.003924514556000004,0.003424911552000403,-0.0005281706759999094,0.0026123569219999596,0.009817888767,0.0007309702299997337
Netherlands_Groningen:GRO016,0.12396622242799998,0.133695071494,0.06659367181880001,0.04865930877599983,0.041842086485,0.018033807444060003,0.007775461386000003,0.005009828266000081,0.007489263203999957,0.0027303162139999237,-0.0037124404976999997,0.002330791558000018,-0.009644349534000004,-0.007814023309999779,0.01761966802200015,0.0042562063800000325,-0.007728223155999952,0.006685061649999975,0.0008543914479999795,0.0027001588039999988,0.0038547576440001955,0.0017851107120000478,0.0012770364479999714,0.00977836887400001,0.0008621206900001066
Netherlands_Groningen:GRO017,0.13238744970500002,0.13307558746899997,0.06526883251560003,0.05324858410299983,0.04145139595799999,0.019086036774719994,0.004923594079000012,0.006897630488000028,0.003250952186999792,-0.0018311489020000592,-0.006754863035739999,0.004808600353000012,-0.010768953967000016,-0.009109521978999773,0.022982536898000186,0.008627629845000151,-0.0067033465739999906,0.0021276480350001254,0.002686647737999936,0.004951550998,0.005891683047000093,0.0021051894500002024,0.0008479096650000099,0.015483752263999905,0.00016343004600001196
Netherlands_Groningen:GRO019,0.13298569681500008,0.132767857913,0.07208694090359999,0.05904907714699997,0.04387098194900001,0.021227450373320002,0.004398399448999965,0.0078057114700000214,0.006563082093000057,0.0002800467760000168,-0.005055038215219999,0.005727580504999955,-0.012592778434999993,-0.015381025169000292,0.028436477744000186,0.007896677790999972,-0.011993911980000117,0.002412695617000065,0.0015028114999999743,0.0047915247580000014,0.008531252636999956,0.0037005719320000394,-0.00027861337300002457,0.014002751128000037,0.001377600979999942
Netherlands_Groningen:GRO020,0.13196580621100013,0.130683098796,0.058594674262600004,0.04195693851099997,0.032733892936400014,0.01591096190678,0.004926690443000042,0.005408101264000065,-0.00032001348199987715,-0.0028189552500000707,-0.004143787006127999,0.005061680707999991,-0.01000830107300003,-0.009690925889999423,0.015510167047999998,0.004425560281000072,-0.004088389563999902,0.001568790158000155,0.0031401676289999716,0.0032641113599999965,0.002852648216000172,0.00491540526200008,0.002290966566000038,0.015634850841000004,-0.0018344232099998291
Netherlands_Groningen:GRO021,0.13234874207500003,0.12331813990100002,0.07245684900560001,0.07157567770999984,0.03462576310700002,0.027649588925859996,0.006667292829000039,0.009455615942000055,-0.0014742499729999484,-0.012975895544999935,-0.0030912918132039997,0.0030569065769999963,-0.00777585951399998,-0.014021617272999401,0.02816610185300006,0.008414582498000086,-0.014790844815999987,0.0023355374110001423,0.002760201895999976,0.004135646986999996,0.007053201198000153,0.0037070135499999712,0.0022754819929999715,0.016584838064999986,0.002213223027999721
Netherlands_Groningen:GRO021,0.13252816283000005,0.123348571566,0.0723022090776,0.07177761169,0.034470172642999994,0.027667886912439998,0.006600587654000029,0.009577640611999904,-0.0019312761479999899,-0.013396890420000002,-0.0031239236494439997,0.00300048616199999,-0.007805946134000003,-0.01435544678799966,0.028505200177999995,0.008192036228000178,-0.015019194385999902,0.002453672386000111,0.0026790901860000178,0.0042367527570000086,0.006775565168000507,0.0038317029899999112,0.002221503107999947,0.016635376960000003,0.0019052420679997115
Netherlands_Groningen:GRO023,0.12669392586000008,0.133048892149,0.0498570836914,0.041772838879999954,0.03385342073760001,0.017508047817699993,0.0037803014380000683,0.0044299772340001785,0.004097646184000138,0.004105772759999807,-0.005540685627167997,0.005609278663999982,-0.011130852747999975,-0.008303763615999521,0.019246412706000048,0.005497188535999984,-0.00765512206200003,0.0009336011220001487,0.0022114695519999733,0.0020238238839999953,0.004246141176000126,0.0007624903300000076,0.0014416781359999726,0.009131004289999897,0.0008609520759998157
Netherlands_Groningen:GRO024,0.12482376799800027,0.14035208624200002,0.05425945877740002,0.02947145087400005,0.040390530351000015,0.011588399546319994,0.005736424408000054,0.0027164970900001445,0.007677930104000183,0.013045283447999982,-0.004818679135432001,0.006776644391999969,-0.016203865754000013,-0.01049932609999965,0.0159815341699999,0.0021958691720001186,-0.0046082054200001984,0.005393571616000084,0.0007818962239999547,0.0016497015425999918,0.003999155800000362,0.002317249468000014,-0.00040954234200000876,0.008657103399999984,-0.0005752955400001175
United_Kingdom_Cornwall_Bude_Widemouth_Bay:S16383,0.12799781162600013,0.130015385803,0.06448923566800001,0.04769096793199984,0.041035875013,0.01820481222971999,0.004800410216999954,0.005971931505000029,0.005900802101999947,-0.002083143206000291,-0.0049304695152000005,0.0021356261989999917,-0.006014026436999982,-0.0004589317009996985,0.011962468437999956,0.00618699149700002,-0.003459049794000036,0.00160928907999998,0.004563336297999993,0.0028805962030000036,0.0020973979720000473,0.0008749554020000445,0.0025860162079999797,0.012367046699000024,-0.00033719905900041116
United_Kingdom_Cornwall_Newquay_Crantock:S16389,0.12991412190000007,0.13325602331000003,0.06317750142920002,0.04871750619999978,0.036892169214,0.019745876323479995,0.0016222557900000033,0.004110115340000033,0.0021955396000000633,-0.0008283974799998123,-0.003922518532104,0.004598077580000035,-0.012612374183999976,-0.012019569399999791,0.024640075120000007,0.0021290539700001,-0.012960529080000047,0.0005798571999999537,0.00007067070999994523,0.002828426994000004,0.005978205700000225,0.0014813493599999082,0.0009469699999999862,0.010923882090000003,0.0011901130000001245
United_Kingdom_Kent_Eastry_Updown:EAS006,0.12617759767099995,0.12956054267800002,0.05752897582380001,0.03965245352999986,0.040983910169,0.01674294566195999,0.0059018147210000245,0.0015464881000001878,0.002228790895000028,0.002803550381999886,-0.00626710646822,0.004494372241999986,-0.010099091878000005,-0.00157722029299983,0.014638221325000058,0.004542494182000019,-0.004686711013000083,0.005571236921000049,0.0032447933940000307,0.002550828731799996,0.0017572792280003847,0.0009642639230001312,0.0015099468059999628,0.01346871424499993,-0.0011898321030001506
United_Kingdom_Yorkshire_Ribblesdale_Selside_Grike:S3056,0.11435623321100001,0.127437428669,0.034256799294,-0.0008869411419999279,0.041397192324000014,0.00137702683024,0.001134979757000056,0.0032856480389999235,0.012292903886000121,0.02490663311500018,0.001606680885780002,0.006099047247999961,-0.012928472967000008,-0.0032560807349998055,-0.0015052648650000014,0.0024428760909999334,0.003787695120999829,0.001693733302999885,0.00562115684500001,-0.0036842564242000075,-0.0011307818110000006,-0.000006673814999746952,-0.0016259916209999878,0.0020906590410000106,-0.0016741472860001133
 
Some interesting outliers...

Distance to:Germany_North_Rhine-Westphalia_Alt-Inden:IND009
0.01848142ITA_Rome_Imperial
0.02031829Italian_Jew
0.02048664Ashkenazi_Germany
0.02133247ITA_Venosa_EMA
0.02182508Italian_Calabria
0.02208243DEU_MA_Erfurt1
0.02234089Italian_Campania
0.02310258ITA_Collegno_MA_o1
0.02387276Romaniote_Jew
0.02446945Greek_Dodecanese

Distance to:United_Kingdom_Yorkshire_Ribblesdale_Selside_Grike:S3056
0.02410967Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.02505765Italian_Northeast
0.02506765French_Provence
0.02619454Spanish_Mallorca
0.02660785HUN_La_Tene
0.02671503Italian_Veneto
0.02676089HRV_EIA
0.02679496Spanish_Baleares
0.02825865HRV_MBA
0.02860224Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona

Distance to:Germany_North_Rhine-Westphalia_Alt-Inden:IND010
0.02982554HUN_Sarmatian_Late_Danube-Tisza
0.03316523DEU_MA_ACD_Ostrogothic
0.03799048Scythian_UKR
0.03968820HUN_Prescythian_IA
0.04026291Yamnaya_BGR
0.04071350DEU_MA_ACD_Baiuvaric
0.04133093HRV_Pop_RomanP
0.04433188HUN_Sarmatian_Early_Transtisza
0.04679751Turkish_Deliorman
0.04727098Bell_Beaker_HUN_EBA
 
Er monnezza Thanks for sharing (y)
IND009 from germany show imperial roman
Autosomal profile nice ;)
His y haplogroup according to teenpean47
Y calls reading is e-v13 interesting
 
Er monnezza Thanks for sharing
IND009 from inden germany show imperial roman
Autosomal profile nice
His y haplogroup according to teenpean47
T calls reading is e-v13 interesting

He might be Jewish or a recent Italian/Greek-Byzantine migrant, probably there are more hints somewhere, either archaeologically or mtDNA or something else.

The second E-V13 from Kent looks Frankish imho. He is fully in the range of the Dutch/English/Northern German samples, but at the Southern limits of it. Will be interesting if the other potentially Frankish influenced samples from Inden-Altdorf and Kent will look similar.
 
He might be Jewish or a recent Italian/Greek-Byzantine migrant, probably there are more hints somewhere, either archaeologically or mtDNA or something else.
The second E-V13 from Kent looks Frankish imho. He is fully in the range of the Dutch/English/Northern German samples, but at the Southern limits of it. Will be interesting if the other potentially Frankish influenced samples from Inden-Altdorf and Kent will look similar.

I see with some respect to the ladies
(And since i am not in anthrogenica)
Can you ask teepean47 to post the mtdna results of his analysis of those remains
Thanks

p.s
thats 460 or above individuals should be interesting to see there mtdna types ;)
 
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Is there more information on IND009? Where is the sample exactly from and how old is he?

I think it‘s possible that Roman cities in Imperial Age, like Cologne, Trier and Xanten in modern day Germany could habour individuals that resemble the Imperial Roman genetic profile. For example, I know that there are graves in Roman Cologne with names from the Levante. I wonder if IND009 is one of them.
 
Is there more information on IND009? Where is the sample exactly from and how old is he?
I think it‘s possible that Roman cities in Imperial Age, like Cologne, Trier and Xanten in modern day Germany could habour individuals that resemble the Imperial Roman genetic profile. For example, I know that there are graves in Roman Cologne with names from the Levante. I wonder if IND009 is one of them.

He comes from a Merowingian cemetery, situated in Inden-Altdorf, in the Rhineland:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inden_(Rheinland)

The cemetery was in usage from the 6th to the 8th century and essentially Frankish in character. Some authors saw some social differentiation, but many graves were robbed, so the analysis is insufficient.

For any sort of old Roman survival, I think its pretty late - even if assuming he is mixed, he rather was a Jewish man or a recent migrant, in my opinion. Like from Italy or Greece-Balkans, the Byzantine Empire. Because if being local, which is possible too, he should have more Celtic-Germanic admixture. But who knows, probably some fairly unmixed Roman provincials survived there, that's all speculation at this point.

Look e.g. here: https://www.academia.edu/30179799/D...201_250_229_flueckiger_KB_229_Flueckiger_pdf_
 
He comes from a Merowingian cemetery, situated in Inden-Altdorf, in the Rhineland:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inden_(Rheinland)

The cemetery was in usage from the 6th to the 8th century and essentially Frankish in character. Some authors saw some social differentiation, but many graves were robbed, so the analysis is insufficient.

For any sort of old Roman survival, I think its pretty late - even if assuming he is mixed, he rather was a Jewish man or a recent migrant, in my opinion. Like from Italy or Greece-Balkans, the Byzantine Empire. Because if being local, which is possible too, he should have more Celtic-Germanic admixture. But who knows, probably some fairly unmixed Roman provincials survived there, that's all speculation at this point.

Look e.g. here: https://www.academia.edu/30179799/D...201_250_229_flueckiger_KB_229_Flueckiger_pdf_

Thanks Riverman, fascinating that's very close to where I live. Anyway, you're right, a merowingian cemetery is too young to be connected to the Imperial Age Roman cities alonge the river Rhine, still I would like to see the genetic profile of the people living in roman imperial age cities in the Rhineland and surrounds.
 
Thanks Riverman, fascinating that's very close to where I live. Anyway, you're right, a merowingian cemetery is too young to be connected to the Imperial Age Roman cities alonge the river Rhine, still I would like to see the genetic profile of the people living in roman imperial age cities in the Rhineland and surrounds.

Me too of course. I guess they will be pretty diverse, ranging from even more Southern-Eastern than this individual from Inden to pretty Germanic, with many mixed Gallo-Roman and rather Celtic profiles in between.
 
Er monnezza Thanks for sharing (y)
IND009 from germany show imperial roman
Autosomal profile nice ;)
His y haplogroup according to teenpean47
Y calls reading is e-v13 interesting

I had some hopes it could be linked to E-V22 but mmmmm not......

The Rhineland was of course of Roman founded cities like Aachen (Aquæ Grann), Köln (Colonia Claudia Ara Agrippinensium) and Mainz (Mogontiacum).

Mainz had even an Isis Tempel:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctuary_of_Isis_and_the_Magna_Mater,_Mainz

Even the more Northern Saxons had a Legion in Phoenicia:
The Notitia Dignitatum records the Ala Prima Saxonum serving at Verofabula in the Levant under the Duke of Phoenicia (Bartholemew 1984, 169) and it may be that one of the veterans of that unit settled in the Patching area during the early 5th century, bringing with him an Egyptian glass vessel acquired on active service.

Phoenicia,Levant, Palestine and....


But I guess just a straw, idle hope...
 
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Do not worry maybe
In the future southern arc paper e-v22
Will show up.
Should be data from cyprus so it might show
Up

I am sure that if there were more samples from dutch sites in this anglo-saxon paper
E-v22 would show up in netherlands ( rule of big numbers) ;)
GRO015 in teepean47 analysis is realy
y haplogroup A1b*? ( that look strange don't you think)
 
Do not worry maybe
In the future southern arc paper e-v22
Will show up.
Should be data from cyprus so it might show
Up
I am sure that if there were more samples from dutch sites in this anglo-saxon paper
E-v22 would show up in netherlands ( rule of big numbers) ;)
GRO015 in teepean47 analysis is realy
y haplogroup A1b*? ( that look strange don't you think)

Yes would be a unique as my E-V22 even more....this is a analysis in K36:

Distance to: Netherlands_Groningen:GRO015
9.61333449 German
10.50935773 Danish
10.93015096 German_Hither_Pomerania
10.93161013 German_Rhineland-Palatinate_East_of_Rhine
10.96651266 German_Bavaria_Oberpfalz
11.14729564 German_North_Moravia
11.15595357 Dutch_South
11.27866570 Dutch
11.30063715 German_East
11.33886238 German_Saxony

So not a 'recent' arrival from Africa or so.....
 
Of course I spent some time to the analysis of the samples of my hometown. threw the low coverage out of it, and plotted the old Saxon (hitherto in Davidki's G25) and some Dutch samples (spread from outmost North to deep South).

What do we see? The Groningen MA samples are an extended version of the Eng Saxons. So the North Dutch are to are large extent Anglo-Saxons c.q. a North Sea amalgam.

In nearly all Dutch samples fit into it: especially the Friesland and Groningen ones.

And we see two clear outliers: one GRO024 looks like from the Southern Netherlands/Belgium, the other GRO021 looks like from North Scandinvia! But that correspondences well with the position of Groningen itself (and admitted we see ourselves ;) as a kind of bridge between West and North....but obviously this had old roots.

In fact I guess there could be a kind of Sigtuna effect. After the MA Sigtuna samples from a few years ago that showed the same kind of sprawl. In other words we see in the middle ages an integration of whole North Europe especially of the coastal area's! See also the Mecklenburg examples....





The Saxons were Vikings avant la lettre, they were in fact pirates under (sea)warlords mainly recruited from the different tribes on the bottle neck that shared.



Annet Nieuwhof (University Groningen) has made the streams clear in a lecture from 5 years ago.


First they went from the bottleneck to the nowadays East Frisian, Groningen and Friesland coast.


Secondly they went to England (as also enduring to Friesland, and some went from Friesland to England etc).


From England there is a stream to the province of Zuid-Holland for example.


Later on there is a rebound to the bottleneck which is called Nord-Friesland.


picture upload

Whole lecture:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDvcVIx97rM

Based on Tacitus the most Northern Suebi tribes- among them Angles and Warini- were in some sense bound by a same 'religious act' they had a Nerthus cult.


[/QUOTE]

From Tacitus (wiki):
By contrast, the Langobardi are distinguished by being few in number. Surrounded by many mighty peoples they have protected themselves not by submissiveness but by battle and boldness. Next to them come the Ruedigni, Aviones, Anglii, Varini, Eudoses, Suarines, and Huitones, protected by river and forests. There is nothing especially noteworthy about these states individually, but they are distinguished by a common worship of Nerthus, that is, Mother Earth, and believes that she intervenes in human affairs and rides through their peoples. There is a sacred grove on an island in the Ocean, in which there is a consecrated chariot, draped with cloth, where the priest alone may touch. He perceives the presence of the goddess in the innermost shrine and with great reverence escorts her in her chariot, which is drawn by female cattle. There are days of rejoicing then and the countryside celebrates the festival, wherever she designs to visit and to accept hospitality. No one goes to war, no one takes up arms, all objects of iron are locked away, then and only then do they experience peace and quiet, only then do they prize them, until the goddess has had her fill of human society and the priest brings her back to her temple. Afterwards the chariot, the cloth, and, if one may believe it, the deity herself are washed in a hidden lake. The slaves who perform this office are immediately swallowed up in the same lake. Hence arises dread of the mysterious, and piety, which keeps them ignorant of what only those about to perish may see.

The Saxon spread meant also another tongue, founding for old English and old Frisian. See: Elmar Seebold in Essays on early Franks (1999).
That's also the meaning of the this etymogy online quote:


It corresponds to the Old English adjective þeodisc "belonging to the people," which was used especially of the common language of Germanic people (as opposed to Latin), a derivative of the Old English noun þeod "people, race, nation." The language name is first attested in Latin as theodice (786 C.E.) in correspondence between Charlemagne's court and the Pope, in reference to a synodical conference in Mercia; thus it refers to Old English. Its first use in reference to a German language (as opposed to a Germanic one) is two years later. The sense was extended from the language to the people who spoke it (in German, Diutisklant, ancestor of Deutschland, was in use by 13c.).

My hypothesis:

The Saxons were early middle ages Vikings avant la lettre, they were in fact pirates under (sea)warlords mainly recruited from the different tribes on the 'bottle neck' (Schleswig/ Jutland) 'bound' by the same Nerthus cult and close kinship (genetics), the CNE factor of the paper, and their language was an important factor in the creation of languages like (old) English and Frisian!
 
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Just of curiosity. All G25 samples, including the scaled preliminary coordinates by Davidski post #36. My results, non aggregate samples, mixed mode (I am mixed), ADC 0.25 and ADC 0.50.

o3PSsny.png
 
Yes would be a unique as my E-V22 even more....this is a analysis in K36:

Distance to: Netherlands_Groningen:GRO015
9.61333449 German
10.50935773 Danish
10.93015096 German_Hither_Pomerania
10.93161013 German_Rhineland-Palatinate_East_of_Rhine
10.96651266 German_Bavaria_Oberpfalz
11.14729564 German_North_Moravia
11.15595357 Dutch_South
11.27866570 Dutch
11.30063715 German_East
11.33886238 German_Saxony

So not a 'recent' arrival from Africa or so.....


Maybe pribislav would look at
The y calls
If it realy A1b thats pretty rare
I see autsomally he was northern european
 
Just of curiosity. All G25 samples, including the scaled preliminary coordinates by Davidski post #36. My results, non aggregate samples, mixed mode (I am mixed), ADC 0.25 and ADC 0.50.

o3PSsny.png

An outlier

Distance to:Germany_North_Rhine-Westphalia_Alt-Inden:IND006
0.02733056Spanish_Mallorca
0.02856201Spanish_Alacant
0.02917867Spanish_Penedes
0.02940597Spanish_Girona
0.02942966Spanish_Baleares
0.03019196Spanish_Murcia
0.03029161Spanish_Cataluna
0.03080127Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.03096955Spanish_Castello
0.03194893Spanish_Eivissa
0.03237551French_Provence
0.03238481Spanish_Pirineu
0.03245382Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.03245587Spanish_Valencia
0.03253013Portuguese
0.03261995Spanish_Lleida
0.03297301Spanish_Galicia
0.03318894Spanish_Andalucia
0.03349885Spanish_Aragon
0.03353440Spanish_Extremadura
0.03355272Spanish_Barcelones
0.03356141Spanish_Cantabria
0.03385485Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.03450559Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.03451641Spanish_Catalunya_Central

PS:
Iberia_Menorca_Aritgues_LBA:EFA010;
Iberia_Argar_Almoloya_Late: ALM038

X8MeHFw.jpg

Source:
https://www.academia.edu/80534985/G..._Age_transition_in_southern_Iberia?f_ri=21967
 
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