Politics Vote for a president of USA - 2016 election

Pick a president.

  • Hillary Clinton

    Votes: 11 20.8%

  • Bernie Sanders

    Votes: 11 20.8%

  • Ted Cruz

    Votes: 3 5.7%

  • Marco Rubio

    Votes: 4 7.5%

  • Donald Trump

    Votes: 24 45.3%
  • Total voters
    53
  • Poll closed .
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Job_Growth_by_U.S._President_-_v1.png

ihype02 said:
Before the COVID the number of jobs opened during Trump's time on average seem to be slightly above Obama's second term presidential time.
Such a great miracle, becuase many republicans consider Obama the worst president.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/me...n-t-build-great-economy-he-inherited-n1237793
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also maybe people should look at the slope that the previous president had right before he left. that would explain obamas curve during his first term and Trumps curve which is almost parallel to the one of Obamas second term.
 
Jovialis said:
It is not a matter of 5 million, but rather a few thousand between specific states. They are within the 1% margin, so he is perfectly in the right to get a recount. This is not something that is out of the ordinary. The national popular vote doesn't matter in determining the outcome of the election. Allegations of fraud from poll watchers should be respected, and looked into by the courts. After their job is to do exactly that, if there are instances. The courts will make their determinations, and that is how we will end this.
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Result up until now: the blablabla big bubble has burst....

But the undermining soundbites (fraud! stolen!) have already done their job.
 
Northener said:
Result up until now: the blablabla big bubble has burst....

But the undermining soundbites (fraud! stolen!) have already done their job.
Click to expand...

Let's see how the next couple years go for the Democrats. Because the mid-term elections are coming up in 2022, and a lot is on the line. Biden could be blamed for losing the House for the Democrats, if he doesn't do a good job. If that happens, the GOP will control 2/3rds of the branches of government in the USA. Ultimately, that could lead to a real impeachment, if some scandal where to occur. Unlike the symbolic indictment produced by the Democrats for Trump.
 
Jovialis said:
Let's see how the next couple years go for the Democrats. Because the mid-term elections are coming up in 2022, and a lot is on the line. Biden could be blamed for losing the House for the Democrats, if he doesn't do a good job. If that happens, the GOP will control 2/3rds of the branches of government in the USA. Ultimately, that could lead to a real impeachment, if some scandal where to occur. Unlike the symbolic indictment produced by the Democrats for Trump.
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Take in account that Trump is after 20 januari an ordinary citizen again, bankruptcy, legal procedures, and may be some rabbits out of hats who knows....

But I saw an article in my newspaper that handled about a frontrunner of Donald Trump, Silvio Berlusconi after a defeat he returned and after he was gone others filled the 'populist' gap (have you seen La Grande Bellezza?).

It's like Salento said not Trumpist and Republican is not 1:1 (although Trump was the kingmaker in the Republicans for the last four years) but there is also an option he could tear the Republicans apart, never a dull moment with Trump.

If this is all amidst a crisis is good for the country and if the moderates in both party's should cooperate (in stead of the trenches), that all seems unfortunately secundo.
 
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Northener said:
Take in account that Trump is after 20 januari an ordinary citizen again, bankruptcy, legal procedures, and may be some rabbits out of hats who knows....

But I saw an article in my newspaper that handled about a frontrunner of Donald Trump, Silvio Berlusconi after a defeat he returned and after he was gone others filled the 'populist' gap (have you seen La Grande Bellezza?).

It's like Salento said not Trumpist and Republican is not 1:1 (although Trump was the kingmaker in the Republicans for the last four years) but there is also an option he could tear the Republicans apart, never a dull moment wit Trump.

If this is all amidst a crisis is good for the country and if the moderates in both party's should cooperate (in stead of the trenches), that all seems unfortunately secundo.
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I have a feeling that Trump will continue to rally his supporters for the next four years, and try to get re-elected for a second term. There is a precedent for it, Grover Cleveland served two non-consecutive terms. Trumpism may not be in total lock-step with Republican ethos, but it is with American right-wing populism.
 
Jovialis said:
Let's see how the next couple years go for the Democrats. Because the mid-term elections are coming up in 2022, and a lot is on the line. Biden could be blamed for losing the House for the Democrats, if he doesn't do a good job. If that happens, the GOP will control 2/3rds of the branches of government in the USA. Ultimately, that could lead to a real impeachment, if some scandal where to occur. Unlike the symbolic indictment produced by the Democrats for Trump.
Click to expand...

The Democrats have a lot of work to do and I forget who had said it before, but they keep making the same mistakes each time around. Perhaps they can figure out how to prevent those mistakes and improve. In regards to the "symbolic indictment", can you really call it that when the GOP sort of had the final say considering they were the majority at the time (and likely this time around too)? With the way they've conducted themselves these past 4 years...
 
spruithean said:
The Democrats have a lot of work to do and I forget who had said it before, but they keep making the same mistakes each time around. Perhaps they can figure out how to prevent those mistakes and improve. In regards to the "symbolic indictment", can you really call it that when the GOP sort of had the final say considering they were the majority at the time (and likely this time around too)? With the way they've conducted themselves these past 4 years...
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I call it symbolic, because he was never actually impeached; only by the House. But he was not by the Republican-controlled Senate, so it was really nothing more than political theater. Trump is currently serving out the rest of his full 4-year term.

I think if Biden wants to work with the GOP he will have to alienate the progressive-wing of the Democrats (i.e. AOC, Bernie, etc.)

Biden is a corporatist, that will work for the interests of K-street (i.e. Corporate Lobbyists). Thus, I think he will get their interests secured, while compromising with fiscally-conservative Republicans.

This election is actually a big blow to the progressives. The true-power elite of the Democrats are neo-liberals that support globalism in order to serve business interests, and keep the cost of goods low for consumers. They are similar to neoconservatives, with the exception of their positions on certain social issues. Both are willing to wage war to protect and expand their interests as well.
 
Jovialis said:
I call it symbolic, because he was never actually impeached; only by the House. But he was not by the Republican-controlled Senate, so it was really nothing more than political theater. Trump is currently serving out the rest of his full 4-year term.

I think if Biden wants to work with the GOP he will have to alienate the progressive-wing of the Democrats (i.e. AOC, Bernie, etc.)

Biden is a corporatist, that will work for the interests of K-street (i.e. Corporate Lobbyists). Thus, I think he will get their interests secured, while compromising with fiscally-conservative Republicans.

This election is actually a big blow to the progressives. The true-power elite of the Democrats are neo-liberals that support globalism in order to serve business interests, and keep the cost of goods low for consumers. They are similar to neoconservatives, with the exception of their positions on certain social issues. Both are willing to wage war to protect and expand their interests as well.
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He will probably continue doing a lot of what worked for Trump:
https://www.ctvnews.ca/business/no-...don-t-manufacture-in-u-s-biden-vows-1.5191313
 
Northener said:
Result up until now: the blablabla big bubble has burst....

But the undermining soundbites (fraud! stolen!) have already done their job.
Click to expand...

A lot can happen in two months. I watched France24 in the last couple of days to get an idea what type of "news" Europe eats.
I wouldn't know where to start with the misinformation. Not just about the election, but also international news regarding Ethiopia where I lived for 3 years before moving to Thailand. They make you feel wise if you believe what they say. The Trump rally wasn't 1,000 people. It was many more. I know people who attended. Whatever image you have over what the "American voter" wants, I encourage you to read up on why having a Constitutional Republic ("if you can keep it") is so important. The need of the worker in Nebraska who has a family to feed is not less important than the single waiter in LA who doesn't like Trump's "tone".
 
firetown said:
A lot can happen in two months. I watched France24 in the last couple of days to get an idea what type of "news" Europe eats.
I wouldn't know where to start with the misinformation. Not just about the election, but also international news regarding Ethiopia where I lived for 3 years before moving to Thailand. They make you feel wise if you believe what they say. The Trump rally wasn't 1,000 people. It was many more. I know people who attended. Whatever image you have over what the "American voter" wants, I encourage you to read up on why having a Constitutional Republic ("if you can keep it") is so important. The need of the worker in Nebraska who has a family to feed is not less important than the single waiter in LA who doesn't like Trump's "tone".
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Of course everyone lives (nowadays) in some kind of bubble. But I think you must not underestimate how close these elections are watched, at least in my country (the Netherlands). In my view this is in the bigger European countries (like Germany) somewhat less the case, but the last months you get the idea if we are a kind of 'extra US state'. It was mostly in the opening lines on the news and on prime time talk shows it was very prominent! And of course channels like CNN (standard on our cable network) and MSNBC and Fox were during the election live on the web (now they are not live any longer). The newspapers were full of news and lots of background/context about the US elections. You can discuss about the bias, but the information about as such was widespread and available here... we could not miss it! ;)
 
Northener said:
And of course channels like CNN (standard on our cable network) and MSNBC and Fox were during the election live on the web (now they are not live any longer). The newspapers were full of news and lots of background/context about the US elections. You can discuss about the bias, but the information about as such was widespread and available here... we could not miss it! ;)
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That is my biggest concern. Yes, you do get information but mixed with misinformation. The same thing happens in the U.S. If people had a channel with only misinformation, they would catch on, but when there is enough real info and then a ton of misleading bias, it is far too easy to be mislead.
 
Jovialis said:
I call it symbolic, because he was never actually impeached; only by the House. But he was not by the Republican-controlled Senate, so it was really nothing more than political theater. Trump is currently serving out the rest of his full 4-year term.

I think if Biden wants to work with the GOP he will have to alienate the progressive-wing of the Democrats (i.e. AOC, Bernie, etc.)

Biden is a corporatist, that will work for the interests of K-street (i.e. Corporate Lobbyists). Thus, I think he will get their interests secured, while compromising with fiscally-conservative Republicans.

This election is actually a big blow to the progressives. The true-power elite of the Democrats are neo-liberals that support globalism in order to serve business interests, and keep the cost of goods low for consumers. They are similar to neoconservatives, with the exception of their positions on certain social issues. Both are willing to wage war to protect and expand their interests as well.
Click to expand...

That's not symbolic it was blocked....by power play.

I agree with you about Biden and his 'soft kind of neoliberalism'. That will be the big thing, the reminder for the Democrats is that they have lost the blue wall (2016), from upbringing Biden still has affinity with blue collar workers, but that was of a previous generation...;) And he is a lifetime Washington man so pampered by lobbyist.
 
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firetown said:
That is my biggest concern. Yes, you do get information but mixed with misinformation. The same thing happens in the U.S. If people had a channel with only misinformation, they would catch on, but when there is enough real info and then a ton of misleading bias, it is far too easy to be mislead.
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Everyone is biased. But if you are able to follow from MSNBC over CNN to fox, read lots of different newspaper and magazines, I guess your are able to have a good wel underlined opinion.The thing that is happening in the US, but also outside is that extreme partisanship.

Especially Trump(ist) aimed at punches below the belt IMO very 'irrational'. And then you immediately the reaction "leftist moralist". Ok that's the case. But is that all? I like debate, but a debate not to aim to punch one another beneath the belt.... Debate may be heated, witty, hard but fair! All nice and good. But ad hominem is so nasty...What I see is a fire of suspicion, mistrust, conspiracy theory, it's all inflammatory and nasty firetown. In the end it's cynical and undermining...Is this so weird to have difficulties with that?
 
firetown said:
That is my biggest concern. Yes, you do get information but mixed with misinformation. The same thing happens in the U.S. If people had a channel with only misinformation, they would catch on, but when there is enough real info and then a ton of misleading bias, it is far too easy to be mislead.
Click to expand...

May be the Portugese politicologist Bruno Macaes got a point here, De Groene Amsterdammer 11/11, Google Translate:

That situation can only be understood through the understanding that the US has become its own civilization. And not one that is ready for autumn again. The history of civilizations is usually very long, and that of the US is very young. The US is therefore not concerned with its decline, Maçães suggests, but still with its rise: a young country that is mapping its own path, leading away from Europe.
The unique and fierce American politics, including Trumpism, is, according to Maçães, a prime symptom of this. Trumpism is not a paragon of a country undermining its own values, but of a country shaping its own. "This Enlightenment prodigy may not hesitate to throw off Western liberal principles if it becomes convinced that they have been refuted by time and experience," he wrote in his book. "If the West falters, America will want to become less Western. If the center of power in the world moves away from the West, America will too. "
...
In his book, Maçães analyzes this burgeoning civilization and its political culture from a broad perspective, from political subcontractors and philosophers to poets, architects and characters in Easy Rider. That culture is very difficult for Europeans to understand, Maçães believes, because they always think they recognize what is happening in the US, while they do not really understand the underlying sentiments. For example, what Americans understand by "freedom" is fundamentally different than it is for Europeans. Nor do Europeans really understand the role of religion, the death penalty, gun ownership and other matters.
That also applies to American politics. For example, for the role that political narratives and the creation of stories play in this. "That world of storytelling looks very strange to Europeans," says Maçães. "There are so many different stories in America and stories that overlap. In recent weeks there has been so much interest in the idea that Trump would commit a coup. You can always find some pretty unlikely stories that are taken seriously in the American context. If you want to analyze them, you have to keep a certain amount of irony and distance and realize that such stories should not be taken literally. You can see that now: many Republicans accept Trump's tale of fake elections while they don't really believe in mass fraud.

...
And because American politics has acquired strong elements of entertainment and fantasy, it has allowed for more extreme behavior, things that would be beyond the bounds of the possible in a European democracy. We saw the president in a speech on election night saying that fraud was being committed and that he wanted the vote to be stopped. If you saw such a speech in Europe or other parts of the world, you would conclude that a coup was taking place and that there was no turning back from that point.The interesting thing about America is, it's a place where those things do happen, but they can't be taken literally. There is a great element of fantasy, of role-play, that you have to keep an eye on.
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Northener said:
May be the Portugese politicologist Bruno Macaes got a point here, De Groene Amsterdammer 11/11, Google Translate:
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Thank you for that, I agree with much of what he said. I do want to clarify though that when we talk about voter fraud that significantly altered the outcome of the election, it doesn't necessarily require a "liberal conspiracy". I am focused on the many who have taken it upon themselves to "make mistakes" which add up to a degree that has to be properly investigated. If this doesn't happen, it will set a dangerous precedent for all future elections.
 
Another thing that I would like to point out that I consider absolutely disgusting is that our President is being "fact-checked" on several American-based social media outlets. If you want to compare Trump to Putin or Xi, you must be joking. This is absolutely embarrassing not to Trump, but the nation. It also goes against the freedom of press as a whole. We are the press if we choose to. This is not about the press. It is about chosen networks that are now able to come together and discredit someone in the oval office.
 
spruithean said:
The Democrats have a lot of work to do and I forget who had said it before, but they keep making the same mistakes each time around. Perhaps they can figure out how to prevent those mistakes and improve. In regards to the "symbolic indictment", can you really call it that when the GOP sort of had the final say considering they were the majority at the time (and likely this time around too)? With the way they've conducted themselves these past 4 years...
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Every time the Democrats elect a president they are handed a shitshow to solve. 2008 was the Great Recession 2020 the Great Pandemic.
 
ihype02 said:
........
TNT_Graphics_Web-02.jpg
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Is the Nazi a right or left wing ......as they term themselves as socialists National Socialist German Workers' Party

seems left wing to me ...................but extreme left and extreme right are neighbours in the circle of politics
 
bigsnake49 said:
Every time the Democrats elect a president they are handed a shitshow to solve. 2008 was the Great Recession 2020 the Great Pandemic.
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don’t feel sorry for the Democrats yet, ... we still don’t know who won the election ... Let's hope it's not them that have to solve your problems ... with my money :)
 
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