The Arrival of Steppe & Iranian Related Ancestry in Islands of West Mediterranean

I also want to make clear that I am NOT saying that Morocco_LN is really similar to Myceneans, but that it was treated/modelled as such by the authors of the papers, otherwise it wouldn't have worked to model Sicilians and it wouldn't plot so close to Myceneans in the PCA they used. In short it was a mistake.

I agree, we are in 100% agreement about Morroco_LN. I wish they would have used a better proxy because all it did is cause lots of confusion.
 
iu

It is better to compare today's Cretans with their ancestors, and even if they are shifted to north Levant compared to Myceneans, they do not compared to the Minoans. There is a Minoan that is quite "tepecik", but if you look that the Anatolia_N and Greece_N range it still falls inside the imaginary straight line from the most south east Greece_N and the Iran_N. It is a visually estimation but also the paper (lazaridis 2017) modelled Minoans as Anatolian_N and Iran_N.
Futhermore I was referring to south levantines, given that we were talking about additional amount of levant_N (which would pull south east).

Modern Greeks show a stronger affinity with Myceaneans than Minoans, including Cretans. Minoans are more EEF shifted than Myceaneans. If you use Minoans instead the Middle Eastern component increases even higher.
2xPE1Cb.png
 
That model involving Morocco LN in modern Sicilians is really curious. Morocco LN seems a mix of Barcin N-like (which they would have used as Anatolian Neo reference) and Taforalt-like, with some Natufian-like and traces of WHG. Apparently the problem in this case was the lack of another Natufian-related reference in the model, which forced the algorithm to pick up Morocco LN, which in turn could have been "drained" by this another reference if it were used.

Well, that would be a bit like saying that we can't use North African sources to model their contribution to the gene pool of some place because they won't be 100% made by indigenous components. By that token, even Natufian would be "misleading", because it was also ~70% directly related to the Anatolian HGs further back. PPNB is the earliest Neolithic culture in the region. Nonetheless, the picture won't change if you use Natufian instead. Since Natufians were long gone (or rather changed into something else) by the time of the Neolithic and Chalcolithic expansion, if you use Natufian admixture you will get lower percentages, but no realistic interpretation of such a model would consider that there was actually direct Natufian contribution to Neolithic or Chalcolithic populations, that'd be totally anachronistic, so you would have to consider at least 2x the amount of Natufian to have a realistic estimate of the Levantine-related gene flow into some population compared to some earlier period.
This ratio seems possible imo. Something like 1.7x. Unless there were flows in both directions between AAF/Boncuklu and ACF/Barcin periods. The former (AAF) seems to lack Natufian-related ancestry. So, the first flows North, from Levant, could perhaps have been slightly richer in Natufian-related ancestry (?), and they could have occurred at the same time there were flows South from somewhere in Anatolia. PPNB already had some CHG/Iran-related ancestry (as AAF/Bonculklu had). However, flows in both ways at the same time don't seem likely, and actually the proportion of CHG/Iran-like ancestry in AAF seem to fit well the proportion of this component in PPNB when non-Natufian ancestry is considered. So, indeed, it looks like there was this first AAF->pre-PPNB flow followed by a PPNB(-like)->Anatolia flow, in turn followed by another increase in both Natufian-related and CHG/Iran-related ancestries, resulting in Tepecik.
We could also consider that clines where/are common, at the same time there're important unsampled areas (such in part of Fertile Crescent). It'll be interesting to know how people from these other areas looked like, and if they could somehow illuminate the scenario.

By the way, according to Feldman et al. and also G25 PCA, Barcin N (ACF) already had Levant-PPNB related ancestry, which Boncuklu (AAF) lacked, and also CHG/Iran-related, which Boncuklu had. Tepecik, in turn, had an excess of both ancestries compared to Barcin N, which evidences a continuous ~East-West flow (bringing both Natufian-related and CHG/Iran-related ancestries) from somewhere else into parts of Anatolia, between 10200-8300 years ago. What I think is curious is this "coincidence" in both Natufian and CHG/Iran increase into Tepecik (did they arrive independently?), that's why I speculate a possible (already mixed) source somewhere in Fertile Crescent, comparatively heavier in CHG/Iran-like and Natufian-like, and poorer in Anatolian-like). But again, we cannot rule out independent sources, of course, also because AAF had only CHG/Iran, while ACF had both at similar proportion (which means at some point Natufian ancestry has grown more than CHG/Iran, suggestive of independent movements, at least till some time before ACF period).
Anyway, apparently this ~E-W flow continued, which could perhaps explain why Isparta prefers Tepecik over Barcin largely, while modern Sicilians seems to be a mix of a Barcin-like (supposedly arrived earlier) and a Tepecik-like (supposedly arrived in post-Neo and associated to ABA?). We'd be talking of an important influence of both SBA and ABA ancestries over South Italy in general.
Uniparental markers may provide clues on this, as well as some TMRCAs (when decently interpreted). An example that comes to my mind is G-M406. Despite being so old (slightly older than the "cousin" clade G-P303, more common in Europe), it was not identified in Neolithic Europe thus far, but it shows up above traces in South Italy and Greece (it's also present in other parts of Europe, of course; in lower frequencies though). I wonder if it could be related to this possible more eastern/Tepecik-like source.

I think once Lazaridis' pre-print on Dzudzurna finally comes out, there are going to be some rethinking of these models. Considering that Dzudzurna is very similar to Anatolian_N. While Natufian is Dzudzurna, plus Ancestral North African. Perhaps Anatolian_N is an isolated Dzudzurna-like population, and not necessarily a mixture of WHG and Natufian.
Precisely. According to Lazaridis et. al., Anatolian and Dzudzuana were virtually the same, the former descending from the latter, with very little input from other sources. In this sense, Anatolian would be kind of a "Dzudzuana relic". :) However, Natufian would be mostly Dzudzuana plus some Taforalt, which in turn also had Dzudzuana (at ~55%). Both Dzudzuana and Taforalt had "deep ancestry" (BE-like or something), so at the end both would be a mix of WHG-like and deep ancestry, if I got it correctly.

I never bought this idea that AHG were basicall WHG+Natufian. It makes very little sense, and especially WHG is very divergent from AHG. I think Lazaridis et al.'s remark on the Dzudzuana pre-print that the Neolithic Anatolians (I assume he means the average typically Anatolian ancestry) resulted from a Dzuduana-like source added to something more WHG-like (but not WHG) and more Basal Eurasian is more credible.
IIRC, Lazaridis et al. suggested Anatolians and Dzudzuana formed a clade. Dzdzuana itself would be a mix of this WHG-like ancestry (~72%) with "deep ancestry", and that's why Anatolians also had WHG-like ancestry (taked directly from Dzudzuana ancestors).

By the way, Ygorcs, it would be really great if anyone of us could learn how to use qpAdm and other tools. This seems a good start:
https://bodkan.net/admixr/articles/tutorial.html (check also D statistic and f4 statistic)
 
"Anyway, apparently this ~E-W flow continued, which could perhaps explain why Isparta prefers Tepecik over Barcin largely, while modern Sicilians seems to be a mix of a Barcin-like (supposedly arrived earlier) and a Tepecik-like (supposedly arrived in post-Neo and associated to ABA?). We'd be talking of an important influence of both SBA and ABA ancestries over South Italy in general."

Highly unlikely for most of it, since the increased percentages are already present in both The Iceman and Remedello, and Kilinc et al specifically points out that this "Tepecik" like ancestry had probably traversed all of Anatolia, reaching therefore the Kumtepe jumping off point for the Balkans, BEFORE the Chalcolithic.

For those who love to do their own models, see how much Levant Neolithic can be "PULLED OUT" of The Iceman and Remedello, the latter of which are ancestors of North Italians as well.
 
Modern Greeks show a stronger affinity with Myceaneans than Minoans, including Cretans. Minoans are more EEF shifted than Myceaneans. If you use Minoans instead the Middle Eastern component increases even higher.
2xPE1Cb.png

Good to know, thanks for the piece of information. Still, something jumps to my eyes: Crete, Greek central anatolia (cappadocian?) are in a straight line towards Haji Firuz. I have this personal theory of mine ( sure that many other must have thought the same) that before some event (the turkish migration? ) Anatolia was a bridge between Greece and the caucasus. This is a bit off topic, still...
 
"Anyway, apparently this ~E-W flow continued, which could perhaps explain why Isparta prefers Tepecik over Barcin largely, while modern Sicilians seems to be a mix of a Barcin-like (supposedly arrived earlier) and a Tepecik-like (supposedly arrived in post-Neo and associated to ABA?). We'd be talking of an important influence of both SBA and ABA ancestries over South Italy in general."

Highly unlikely for most of it, since the increased percentages are already present in both The Iceman and Remedello, and Kilinc et al specifically points out that this "Tepecik" like ancestry had probably traversed all of Anatolia, reaching therefore the Kumtepe jumping off point for the Balkans, BEFORE the Chalcolithic.

For those who love to do their own models, see how much Levant Neolithic can be "PULLED OUT" of The Iceman and Remedello, the latter of which are ancestors of North Italians as well.
Thanks for pointing this out. Later I'll explore the models using your post as reference.

@Angela and all, btw, notice how these models may be delicate. Using Khvalynsk or Yamanaya Samara makes a big difference. Both results seem to be related to the so-called Italian cline, still...
(I used 5 sources for WHG.)

Using Khvalynsk
5OfuzPL.jpg


Using Yamnaya Samara
Lbv72jV.jpg


Using both Khvalynsk and Samara (without Karelia), as I did with Barcin and Tepecik, assuming there could be different sources for "Steppe ancestry". It chose Yamnaya Samara entirely.
52wjD5l.jpg


However, I noticed PPNB in Lazio for example seems too high, then I've tried to reproduce this last model using nMonte3 (penalty = 0.001) in R SW, rather than nMonte, just out of curiosity. (AFAIK pen = 0.001 instead pen = 0 in G25 is used by many.) Notice how PPNB drops, interestingly:

- Lazio
TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N,40.6
TUR_Barcin_N,29
Yamnaya_RUS_Samara,15.8
IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N,4.6
WHG,4.4
RUS_Khvalynsk_En,3.6
GEO_CHG,1.4
Levant_PPNB,0.6

Total of 69.6 Anatolian Neo, 19.4 Steppe, 6.0 CHG/Iran, 4.4 WHG and 0.6 Levant PPNB only.

- Now the same approach (pen = 0.001) for Sicilian East

TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N,54.4
Yamnaya_RUS_Samara,14.4
TUR_Barcin_N,14.2
IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N,5.2
RUS_Khvalynsk_En,4.4
Levant_PPNB,2.6
WHG,2.2
MAR_EN,1.4
GEO_CHG,1.2

Total of 68.6 Anatolian Neo, 18.8 Steppe, 6.4 CHG/Iran, 2.2 WHG, 2.6 Levant PPNB and 1.4 MAR EN. Also a big difference.

Do you guys think that these few more Anatolian, Steppe and WHG in Lazio, compared to East Sicily, could explain their positions in PCA in relation to one another? I'm asking because I don't know. :)

If you want me to run this model (in R SW) for any other Italian pop, just ask.

You guys can read about nMonte3 (text of the author) here (search for introduction nMonte3.doc). It says nMonte3 addresses the problem of overfitting, so, importantly, it implies that nMonte has a problem with overfitting. Vahaduo should include also this adapted G25, I guess.
 
Good to know, thanks for the piece of information. Still, something jumps to my eyes: Crete, Greek central anatolia (cappadocian?) are in a straight line towards Haji Firuz. I have this personal theory of mine ( sure that many other must have thought the same) that before some event (the turkish migration? ) Anatolia was a bridge between Greece and the caucasus. This is a bit off topic, still...
Cappodican Greeks are a little bit more eastern shifted than the Bronze Age Anatolians of the Cappadocia (they plot with Cyprus) but it probably has to do with some Armenian expansion before the Iron Age but for the rest of the Turks it's mostly the Turkic admixture.
 
Thanks for pointing this out. Later I'll explore the models using your post as reference.

@Angela and all, btw, notice how these models may be delicate. Using Khvalynsk or Yamanaya Samara makes a big difference. Both results seem to be related to the so-called Italian cline, still...
(I used 5 sources for WHG.)

Using Khvalynsk
5OfuzPL.jpg


Using Yamnaya Samara
Lbv72jV.jpg


Using both Khvalynsk and Samara (without Karelia), as I did with Barcin and Tepecik, assuming there could be different sources for "Steppe ancestry". It chose Yamnaya Samara entirely.
52wjD5l.jpg


However, I noticed PPNB in Lazio for example seems too high, then I've tried to reproduce this last model using nMonte3 (penalty = 0.001) in R SW, rather than nMonte, just out of curiosity. (AFAIK pen = 0.001 instead pen = 0 in G25 is used by many.) Notice how PPNB drops, interestingly:

- Lazio
TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N,40.6
TUR_Barcin_N,29
Yamnaya_RUS_Samara,15.8
IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N,4.6
WHG,4.4
RUS_Khvalynsk_En,3.6
GEO_CHG,1.4
Levant_PPNB,0.6

Total of 69.6 Anatolian Neo, 19.4 Steppe, 6.0 CHG/Iran, 4.4 WHG and 0.6 Levant PPNB only.

- Now the same approach (pen = 0.001) for Sicilian East

TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N,54.4
Yamnaya_RUS_Samara,14.4
TUR_Barcin_N,14.2
IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N,5.2
RUS_Khvalynsk_En,4.4
Levant_PPNB,2.6
WHG,2.2
MAR_EN,1.4
GEO_CHG,1.2

Total of 68.6 Anatolian Neo, 18.8 Steppe, 6.4 CHG/Iran, 2.2 WHG, 2.6 Levant PPNB and 1.4 MAR EN. Also a big difference.

Do you guys think that these few more Anatolina, Steppe and WHG in Lazio, compared to East Sicily, could explain their positions in PCA? I'm asking because I don't know. :)

If you want me to run this model (in R SW) for any other Italian pop, just ask.

You guys can read about nMonte3 (text of the author) here (search for introduction nMonte3.doc). It says nMonte3 addresses the problem of overfitting, so, importantly, it implies that nMonte has a problem with overfitting. Vahaduo should include also this adapted G25, I guess.

Just my two cents: Khvalynsk_En usually works much better for partially steppe-derived Europeans (perhaps not so much in the Balkans, but certainly in the others regions). The kind of steppe people that expanded into Europe seems to have had a higher EHG:CHG ratio than Yamnaya_Samara, so that excessive CHG in relation to the actual source population and the EEF already embedded into Yamnaya_Samara (unlike Khvalynsk, which had no EEF) must skew results quite a bit.

As for more "mixed" and "eastern" Tepecik vs. Barcin, it certainly began at least by the early-mid Neolithic in Greece and the MLN Italy, but very probably not in all areas and not in the same proportions everywhere in those regions. I'm sure genetic structure existed back then especially with the particular topography and the higher or lower "openness" of the Italian peninsula to influences from distinct parts of Europe depending on the region. In my models, which I think also parallel the K= admixture models I've seen in the Sicilian and Italian aDNA studies, some Tepecik-like admixture appears in the Neolithic and increases in varying proportions, but consistently, along the time until the LBA-IA interval, though, as I said before, that may just indicate we don't have samples from all the relevant areas involved and may lack a clear picture of the entire genetic structure of both Italy and the Balkans before the MLBA, with some of them having simply multiplied their population more than others.
 
Regio_X: Really really nice work there. I complemented YGORCS on his modeling skills with G25 and I compliment yours as well. But for me it kind of goes back to something that I said in other threads, if the model is valid or a good model, then the results that come from it that are totally out of line with what all the literature is saying is the result of sample selection and/or proxy variables chosen.

Your work clearly indicate the sensitivity of some admixture sources just by what Steppe proxy source you use. But your models look very, very, plausible and are to me consistent with what I have seen in all the most recent papers on Italian genetics.

Have you tried to model the Neolithic Romans from Antonio et al 2019? using the approach you did in post 186.
 
Bergamo, for comparison
TUR_Barcin_N,41.4
TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N,25.2
Yamnaya_RUS_Samara,20.2
WHG,7.8
RUS_Khvalynsk_En,4.4
GEO_CHG,0.8
IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N,0.2

Total of 66.6 Anatolian Neo, 24.6 Steppe, 7.8 WHG and 1.0 CHG/Iran.

Just my two cents: Khvalynsk_En usually works much better for partially steppe-derived Europeans (perhaps not so much in the Balkans, but certainly in the others regions). The kind of steppe people that expanded into Europe seems to have had a higher EHG:CHG ratio than Yamnaya_Samara, so that excessive CHG in relation to the actual source population and the EEF already embedded into Yamnaya_Samara must skew results quite a bit.
Yes, but the co-presence of both ancestries plus the penalty could not deal with it?
I remember of an older post of yours (from months ago, maybe) in which you've tried to distinguish the kind of Steppe ancestry present in North and South Italy. If so, I thought both could be present in different parts of Italy at different degrees.

Anyway, this is just a start. We surely can explore more models.

Check what the author said regarding nMonte3 vs. nMonte.

@Palermo
Thanks. I haven't tried, but I can do it later, "if" I find time. It was already difficult to do the previous models, believe me. :)
 
Regio_X: Really really nice work there. I complemented YGORCS on his modeling skills with G25 and I compliment yours as well. But for me it kind of goes back to something that I said in other threads, if the model is valid or a good model, then the results that come from it that are totally out of line with what all the literature is saying is the result of sample selection and/or proxy variables chosen.

Let me take this opportunity to answer the post you wrote complimenting me and my work before. Amidst the hot discussion I ended up reading it only later after many posts had been written. Thank you very much for your kind and generous words, but I'm just an amateur who has been reading about history and, more recently, about population genetics for a quite long time. Nothing more than that. I'm really flattered, though, you may have thought I knew better than I do. lol! I also thank you and compliment you for your generally polite, patient and moderate approach even when making criticisms. That's really remarkable and much needed in this internet era prone to easy misunderstandings and verbal excesses because of the distance and the lack of that face to face contact that humanizes us all. Cheers! (y):)
 
Anyway, this is just a start. We surely can explore more models.

Check what the author said regarding nMonte3 vs. nMonte.

Yes, surely, I'll keep trying to add the inferences and hints of several models compared to each other to what we can read in published papers.

As for nMonte3, I did use it a few times, but I gave up after getting some strange results for some target samples I was analyzing. But maybe the problem was in my source samples chosen for the model. I'll give it a try again. I knew nMonte3 was designed to avoid overfitting. If it really works, it's great news.
 
Thanks for pointing this out. Later I'll explore the models using your post as reference.

@Angela and all, btw, notice how these models may be delicate. Using Khvalynsk or Yamanaya Samara makes a big difference. Both results seem to be related to the so-called Italian cline, still...
(I used 5 sources for WHG.)

Using Khvalynsk
5OfuzPL.jpg


Using Yamnaya Samara
Lbv72jV.jpg


Using both Khvalynsk and Samara (without Karelia), as I did with Barcin and Tepecik, assuming there could be different sources for "Steppe ancestry". It chose Yamnaya Samara entirely.
52wjD5l.jpg


However, I noticed PPNB in Lazio for example seems too high, then I've tried to reproduce this last model using nMonte3 (penalty = 0.001) in R SW, rather than nMonte, just out of curiosity. (AFAIK pen = 0.001 instead pen = 0 in G25 is used by many.) Notice how PPNB drops, interestingly:

- Lazio
TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N,40.6
TUR_Barcin_N,29
Yamnaya_RUS_Samara,15.8
IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N,4.6
WHG,4.4
RUS_Khvalynsk_En,3.6
GEO_CHG,1.4
Levant_PPNB,0.6

Total of 69.6 Anatolian Neo, 19.4 Steppe, 6.0 CHG/Iran, 4.4 WHG and 0.6 Levant PPNB only.

- Now the same approach (pen = 0.001) for Sicilian East

TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N,54.4
Yamnaya_RUS_Samara,14.4
TUR_Barcin_N,14.2
IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N,5.2
RUS_Khvalynsk_En,4.4
Levant_PPNB,2.6
WHG,2.2
MAR_EN,1.4
GEO_CHG,1.2

Total of 68.6 Anatolian Neo, 18.8 Steppe, 6.4 CHG/Iran, 2.2 WHG, 2.6 Levant PPNB and 1.4 MAR EN. Also a big difference.

Do you guys think that these few more Anatolian, Steppe and WHG in Lazio, compared to East Sicily, could explain their positions in PCA in relation to one another? I'm asking because I don't know. :)

If you want me to run this model (in R SW) for any other Italian pop, just ask.

You guys can read about nMonte3 (text of the author) here (search for introduction nMonte3.doc). It says nMonte3 addresses the problem of overfitting, so, importantly, it implies that nMonte has a problem with overfitting. Vahaduo should include also this adapted G25, I guess.

I do indeed see the issue, but the problem is that it has never been made clear to me which steppe sample represents the people likeliest to actually have moved into central and southern Europe.

It would seem that the amount of Caucasus like ancestry in the steppe sample is going to determine the outcome. People with different percentages might and probably did go to different places in Europe, as was the case with the Anatolia Neolithic samples.

I heard talk that perhaps the Greek speakers actually came from around Yamnaya but I don't know if there's any hard evidence to support that.

What are the most proximate samples, in your opinion, for the steppe people who actually entered southern Europe?

If there's no evidence for a clear favorite, then perhaps they should be averaged, as Fernandes did for the Anatolian Neolithic.

This is the kind of thing I have often talked about where if you know the calculator in question well enough, and the make up of the individual samples well enough, you can design a model to support your position.

I hasten to say I'm not accusing anyone posting here of doing that.
 
Let me take this opportunity to answer the post you wrote complimenting me and my work before. Amidst the hot discussion I ended up reading it only later after many posts had been written. Thank you very much for your kind and generous words, but I'm just an amateur who has been reading about history and, more recently, about population genetics for a quite long time. Nothing more than that. I'm really flattered, though, you may have thought I knew better than I do. lol! I also thank you and compliment you for your generally polite, patient and moderate approach even when making criticisms. That's really remarkable and much needed in this internet era prone to easy misunderstandings and verbal excesses because of the distance and the lack of that face to face contact that humanizes us all. Cheers! (y):)

YGORCS: No problem Well not to get theological, I like to think I have the spirit of Saint Francis of Assissi, but the reality is My American_Sicilian temper sometimes gets the best of me as well. In the other thread, before everything was moved here, I dropped an allegorical Bomb so to speak and when that happens, time to get away and cool off a bit. Like I said, I wish I would have worded my language more diplomatically and just said "Perhaps you were not aware that Morroco_LN is not 100% ANA or Berber" so I like to think when you screw up and your in the wrong, have the courtesy to apologize and admit your wrong.

I agree about the internet, for its good, it does have the ability for people to dehumanize other people across the forum and say things that you would never say in public nor want to be said in public about you. I am still new here and of course the topic about Sicilian DNA is obviously one that hits close to me, and of course when some of the folks from "North of the Alps" start with the stuff about Antonio et al 2019 Ancient Roman study and how there were 2 to 3 Iron Age Romans Southern shifted, and 31 of the 48 Imperial Romans Central to southern Shifted, and thus something has to be wrong, no it can't be, etc, etc, etc, that crap does get me hot under the collar, I will confess (not that you were ever part of that cohort, but you know the types I am talking about). Still, I always strive to be civil and courteous and when I screw up and say something inappropriate (e.g., saying you were childish), I own up to it. Like I said, I could have expressed what I said with much better civility, while still holding to my beliefs and principals about the Morroco_LN variable and how it modeled admixture wise and thus how well it works for modeling Sicilian DNA. Like I said, if it is in fact 30% from the Maghreb, no way it can work, and I think we agree there.

In the area of Genetics/DNA research and related fields, I am an amateur as well (I am not a Geneticist) nor I am a Archaeologist, which is another field important, as is history. But I love all 3 fields. However, I am trained well enough in research methods and statistics to read a research paper and catch faulty scholarship and in your case, as Regio_X, and others (Jovialis) appreciate someone who can take these data references and do a good job modeling populations and producing results that are consistent with the actual papers published in the extant Genetics literature.

So my compliment to you is legit, I have my priors on things but nothing wrong with having your priors challenged to make sure your theories are solid. Same as for Regio_X and Jovialis who also have produced some nice graphs in posts since I have been here. Jovialis work with getting the coordinates for the Ancient Romans for various calculators, and others here at Eupedia who helped with that who I can't recall, hell of job.

Regards, PT
 
Bergamo, for comparison
TUR_Barcin_N,41.4
TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N,25.2
Yamnaya_RUS_Samara,20.2
WHG,7.8
RUS_Khvalynsk_En,4.4
GEO_CHG,0.8
IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N,0.2

Total of 66.6 Anatolian Neo, 24.6 Steppe, 7.8 WHG and 1.0 CHG/Iran.

Yes, but the co-presence of both ancestries plus the penalty could not deal with it?
I remember of an older post of yours (from months ago, maybe) in which you've tried to distinguish the kind of Steppe ancestry present in North and South Italy. If so, I thought both could be present in different parts of Italy at different degrees.

Anyway, this is just a start. We surely can explore more models.

Check what the author said regarding nMonte3 vs. nMonte.

@Palermo
Thanks. I haven't tried, but I can do it later, "if" I find time. It was already difficult to do the previous models, believe me. :)

Ok, Oh In understand. I appreciate your efforts. If you do try it, my opinion, and for the record, that is all it is!, I would suggest following the admixture graph in the Antonio et al 2019 paper. Start with the Local Roman_WHG and other Italian_HG (Villabruna) and then see if during Neolithic there are different sources of Anatolian_Neollithic, or just 1 source. The paper documents CHG/Iran_NEO that came in during the Neolithic so it seems logical that if one of the Neolithic sources used doesn't capture the Iran_NEO/CHG that Antonio et al 2019 found, might not be the best source of Anatolian_Neolithic for the Neolithic Romans.
 
North Africans are very pushed away from Levantines, so an actual 5% Northern African admixture could give a 15% Lebenase admixture in a genetic calculator, so one should be careful to use the appropriate samples this way it end up being an overfitted model.
 
North Africans are very pushed away from Levantines, so an actual 5% Northern African admixture could give a 15% Lebenase admixture in a genetic calculator, so one should be careful to use the appropriate samples this way it end up being an overfitted model.

That's why I think it's best to use the most diverged/least mixed samples that are best representative of what was distinctive in the genetic structure of several distinct regions (e.g. it's going to be a big problem if you use Steppe but no CHG-rich Near Eastern sample in any population that actually got CHG via independent routes) - and then, above all, anyone must avoid interpreting the results literally, i.e. if it says a certain % is linked to a certain sample from the Levant or from Russia it of course does not mean it must have necessarily come from there, not from intermediate mixed populations or even a completely different but closely related population due to high levels of shared ancestry.
 
Thought this might be of interest to some of you guys. From the look of it, I find it unlikely that Büyükkaya_EC, Kumtepe and Tepecik-Ciftlik really lacked any extra Levant_N/Natufian affinity higher than what you'd find in Barcin, Boncuklu or the earlier Pinarbasi_AHG and only had CHG/Iran added in an exclusively Anatolia-Caucasus-Iran cline. Unlike other ANF, who are consistently closest to Sardinians, those are strongly pulled much closer toward several individuals from groups that, even though today heavily admixed, are either Levantine (Lebanese), of Levantine origin (Jews) or living very close to the Levant (Cyprus, Kos), instead of any populations that are mainly just Anatolia+CHG/Iran with very no detectable (not already present in Barcin-like people) Levant_N. That tendency of comparatively closer affinity to partially Levant-derived populations is particularly strong in the majority (all but 1) of the Tepecik-Ciftlik samples. So, I keep my doubts that they are best modelled as simply part of an Anatolia:CHG/Iran cline without any even minor participation of the Levant in that history (though I'm sure they could be modelled without it, given how minor this admixture is and how relatively closely related it is to other ANF samples, so the fits won't get that worse just because you made your model without it).

Also, comparing Levant_PPNB samples to Anatolia_N ones, Tepecik-Ciftlik and Kumtepe appear consistently much closer to them than Barcin_N and Boncuklu_N as well as Buyukkaya_EC, with most individuals not much more distant than the confirmed Levant_N-shifted (according to the authors of the paper) Tell Kurdu. The higher distance of Buyukkaya_EC is probably explained by the significant extra (beyond what was already in Tepecik-like people) CHG/Iran_N, which was a far more divergent and thus more distant admixture, because on the whole it was clearly more Tepecik-like than Barcin-like.

CLOSEST GENETIC DISTANCES TO:

Distance to:TUR_Buyukkaya_EC:CBT018
0.05619294Cypriot:Cyprus22AJ19
0.05848623Greek_Kos:GreeceKos8
0.05896804Cypriot:Cyprus24AJ19
0.06036881Greek_Kos:GreeceKos1
0.06168936Italian_Jew:ItalyJew3
0.06244073Cypriot:CYP19
0.06252732Cypriot:CYP5
0.06313818Greek_Crete:Crete7
0.06327482Cypriot:CYP2
0.06413110Italian_Jew:ItalyJew5
0.06430862Lebanese_Christian:Lebanese4AQ115
0.06436686Greek_Kos:GreeceKos5
0.06456939Romaniote_Jew:Romaniote3
0.06503770Romaniote_Jew:Romaniote2
0.06521063Greek_Central_Anatolia:G2501
0.06524364Italian_Campania:NaN195ST
0.06542570Greek_Central_Anatolia:G2503
0.06572279Greek_Kos:GreeceKos7
0.06588541Romaniote_Jew:Romaniote5
0.06596438Italian_Calabria:ALP582
0.06605272Lebanese_Christian:Lebanese10AR37
0.06606180Greek_Kos:GreeceKos9
0.06612712Romaniote_Jew:Romaniote4
0.06636724Greek_Kos:GreeceKos4
0.06708272Italian_Campania:NaN275IS
0.06720562Sephardic_Jew:sephardic14bul
0.06724789Greek_Kos:GreeceKos10
0.06786895Romaniote_Jew:Romaniote1
0.06789378Greek_Kos:GreeceKos2
0.06795773Italian_Campania:NaN77FAM
0.06810467Italian_Jew:ItalyJew2
0.06870596Sephardic_Jew:SephardicJew24276
0.06903087Italian_Campania:CMP_b001_2
0.06927208Sephardic_Jew:SephardicJew4953
0.06928037Italian_Campania:CMP_b007_2

Distance to:TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N:Tep006
0.07783184Italian_Jew:ItalyJew3
0.08119204Romaniote_Jew:Romaniote4
0.08383588Cypriot:Cyprus24AJ19
0.08582248Tunisian_Jew:TunisianJew1763
0.08620921Italian_Jew:ItalyJew5
0.08649028Sephardic_Jew:sephardic14bul
0.08656127Tunisian_Jew:TunisianJew1531
0.08712490Romaniote_Jew:Romaniote3
0.08853001Italian_Jew:ItalyJew4
0.08875517Moroccan_Jew:MoroccanJew5126
0.08900950Tunisian_Jew:TunisianJew1421
0.08911637Italian_Jew:ItalyJew9
0.08916056Italian_Jew:ItalyJew2
0.08935670Greek_Kos:GreeceKos1
0.08936558Italian_Campania:CMP_b007_2
0.08951174Sephardic_Jew:GRC12118122
0.08961138Sephardic_Jew:SephardicJew24276
0.08969244Sephardic_Jew:SephardicJew4953
0.08990144Cypriot:Cyprus22AJ19
0.09009642Sephardic_Jew:GRC12118128
0.09022338Sardinian:HGDP00672
0.09026641Romaniote_Jew:Romaniote2
0.09092755Romaniote_Jew:Romaniote5
0.09177845Italian_Jew:ItalyJew8
0.09206306Tunisian_Jew:TunisianJew1170


Distance to:TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N:Tep004
0.08161905Italian_Jew:ItalyJew3
0.08203562Romaniote_Jew:Romaniote4
0.08647044Italian_Jew:ItalyJew5
0.08689151Romaniote_Jew:Romaniote3
0.08918307Italian_Campania:CMP_b007_2
0.08985923Italian_Jew:ItalyJew2
0.09022619Sephardic_Jew:SephardicJew24276
0.09058792Tunisian_Jew:TunisianJew1763
0.09062833Tunisian_Jew:TunisianJew1531
0.09073282Italian_Jew:ItalyJew4
0.09078542Sephardic_Jew:sephardic14bul
0.09123784Sephardic_Jew:SephardicJew4953
0.09128026Cypriot:Cyprus24AJ19
0.09174334Sardinian:HGDP00672
0.09175816Italian_Jew:ItalyJew9
0.09180596Greek_Kos:GreeceKos1
0.09195126Cypriot:Cyprus22AJ19
0.09237083Tunisian_Jew:TunisianJew1421
0.09306355Italian_Apulia:pu3
0.09312719Moroccan_Jew:MoroccanJew5126
0.09317281Sephardic_Jew:GRC12118097
0.09330190Italian_Campania:NaN65DFG
0.09372744Romaniote_Jew:Romaniote2
0.09398185Romaniote_Jew:Romaniote5
0.09407079Italian_Calabria:ALP582


Distance to:TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N:Tep003
0.06612069Italian_Jew:ItalyJew3
0.06752017Cypriot:Cyprus24AJ19
0.06864480Romaniote_Jew:Romaniote4
0.07016443Cypriot:Cyprus22AJ19
0.07054681Sephardic_Jew:SephardicJew24276
0.07145201Greek_Crete:Crete7
0.07206077Italian_Campania:CMP_b007_2
0.07261529Greek_Kos:GreeceKos5
0.07270155Romaniote_Jew:Romaniote3
0.07302899Greek_Kos:GreeceKos1
0.07310681Italian_Campania:NaN195ST
0.07324888Italian_Jew:ItalyJew5
0.07340100Italian_Jew:ItalyJew2
0.07348141Italian_Jew:ItalyJew10
0.07378319Italian_Apulia:pu3
0.07380864Romaniote_Jew:Romaniote2
0.07406104Romaniote_Jew:Romaniote5
0.07479388Sephardic_Jew:SephardicJew4953
0.07512701Italian_Calabria:ALP582
0.07524743Cypriot:CYP2
0.07565588Greek_Kos:GreeceKos2
0.07580079Greek_Kos:GreeceKos8
0.07600420Lebanese_Christian:Lebanese4AQ115
0.07602093Italian_Abruzzo:ALP205
0.07602826Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_4


Distance to:TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N:Tep002
0.07949427Sardinian:HGDP00665
0.08027154Sardinian:HGDP00672
0.08327072Sardinian:HGDP01063
0.08692853Sardinian:HGDP01067
0.08862466Sardinian:HGDP01075
0.08985020Italian_Campania:CMP_b007_2
0.09127246Sardinian:HGDP01078
0.09159680Sardinian:S_Sardinian-2
0.09189573Sardinian:HGDP00671
0.09197428Italian_Campania:NaN195ST
0.09209790Sephardic_Jew:SephardicJew24276
0.09300752Sardinian:HGDP01073
0.09425037Italian_Jew:ItalyJew10
0.09527881Italian_Jew:ItalyJew2
0.09528242French_Corsica:Corsica03708
0.09608390Sardinian:HGDP01066
0.09701064Italian_Apulia:pu3
0.09724506Cypriot:Cyprus22AJ19
0.09728082Italian_Jew:ItalyJew3
0.09770383Italian_Calabria:ALP582
0.09773373Romaniote_Jew:Romaniote4
0.09813541Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_1
0.09858622Italian_Basilicata:pG25
0.09866615Italian_Jew:ItalyJew7
0.09885649Greek_Crete:Crete7


Distance to:TUR_Kumtepe_N:kum6
0.07448993Italian_Jew:ItalyJew3
0.07483299Italian_Campania:CMP_b007_2
0.07576479Romaniote_Jew:Romaniote4
0.07619072Italian_Apulia:pu3
0.07665219Italian_Campania:CMP_b005_2
0.07669434Sicilian_East:EastSicilian2H
0.07684932Sephardic_Jew:SephardicJew24276
0.07736460Italian_Jew:ItalyJew2
0.07800805Italian_Calabria:ALP582
0.07872851Italian_Basilicata:pG20
0.07912070Greek_Crete:Crete7
0.07935267Greek_Kos:GreeceKos1
0.07947786Sardinian:HGDP00672
0.07956981Italian_Campania:NaN195ST
0.07985500Italian_Campania:NaN46TC
0.07998311Italian_Jew:ItalyJew5
0.08011884Romaniote_Jew:Romaniote3
0.08058599Sephardic_Jew:sephardic14bul
0.08059896Italian_Jew:ItalyJew9
0.08072907Greek_Kos:GreeceKos5
0.08083146Maltese:Malta15AM91
0.08129719Sephardic_Jew:SephardicJew4953
0.08171840Italian_Apulia:pu7
0.08187716Italian_Calabria:ALP596
0.08194836Italian_Campania:NaN275IS

Distance to:TUR_Barcin_N:I1583
0.07842168Sardinian:HGDP00672
0.08064705Sardinian:HGDP01075
0.08275450Sardinian:HGDP00665
0.08387873Sardinian:HGDP01063
0.08451324Sardinian:HGDP01067
0.08631972Sardinian:HGDP01073
0.08993507Sardinian:HGDP01066
0.09310765Sardinian:HGDP00671
0.09375059Sardinian:HGDP01078
0.09512188Sardinian:S_Sardinian-2
0.09669250Sardinian:HGDP00674
0.11127426Italian_Campania:CMP_b007_2
0.11290561French_Corsica:CorsicaS10208
0.11386614French_Corsica:Corsica03708
0.11653179French_Corsica:corsica1308
0.11713637Italian_Campania:NaN195ST
0.11817232Italian_Apulia:pu3
0.11820644Sephardic_Jew:SephardicJew24276
0.11832132Italian_Jew:ItalyJew3
0.11856837Italian_Jew:ItalyJew2
0.11896434Romaniote_Jew:Romaniote4
0.11980303French_Corsica:Corsica19508
0.12000111French_Corsica:Corsica29708
0.12001038French_Corsica:CorsicaS29908
0.12029216Italian_Basilicata:pG20


Distance to:TUR_Barcin_N:I1581
0.08267126Sardinian:HGDP00665
0.08561970Sardinian:HGDP01063
0.08620401Sardinian:HGDP01075
0.08665795Sardinian:HGDP00672
0.08942567Sardinian:HGDP01067
0.09193371Sardinian:HGDP00671
0.09339714Sardinian:HGDP01066
0.09432365Sardinian:HGDP01073
0.09704821Sardinian:S_Sardinian-2
0.09770569Sardinian:HGDP01078
0.10703229Sardinian:HGDP00674
0.11552969Italian_Campania:CMP_b007_2
0.11824071French_Corsica:CorsicaS10208
0.11880621French_Corsica:Corsica03708
0.11967892French_Corsica:corsica1308
0.12005339Italian_Campania:NaN195ST
0.12157303French_Corsica:Corsica19508
0.12296745Sephardic_Jew:SephardicJew24276
0.12334248Italian_Jew:ItalyJew2
0.12344677Italian_Jew:ItalyJew10
0.12461101Italian_Apulia:pu3
0.12463992Italian_Jew:ItalyJew3
0.12501007Italian_Calabria:ALP582
0.12572558French_Corsica:CorsicaS29908
0.12615685Italian_Basilicata:pG20


Distance to:TUR_Barcin_N:I1580
0.08173157Sardinian:HGDP01063
0.08244882Sardinian:HGDP00665
0.08261927Sardinian:HGDP00672
0.08264346Sardinian:HGDP01075
0.08661107Sardinian:HGDP01067
0.08998998Sardinian:HGDP00671
0.09033272Sardinian:HGDP01073
0.09172584Sardinian:HGDP01066
0.09334882Sardinian:S_Sardinian-2
0.09347792Sardinian:HGDP01078
0.10404224Sardinian:HGDP00674
0.10964629Italian_Campania:CMP_b007_2
0.11159682French_Corsica:CorsicaS10208
0.11185453French_Corsica:Corsica03708
0.11301952French_Corsica:corsica1308
0.11428321Italian_Campania:NaN195ST
0.11676057Italian_Apulia:pu3
0.11678322Sephardic_Jew:SephardicJew24276
0.11776283French_Corsica:Corsica19508
0.11788291Italian_Jew:ItalyJew2
0.11858828French_Corsica:CorsicaS29908
0.11923746Italian_Basilicata:pG20
0.11978913Italian_Jew:ItalyJew10
0.11997743Italian_Jew:ItalyJew3
0.12023190Italian_Basilicata:pG25


Distance to:TUR_Barcin_N:I1103
0.07057967Sardinian:HGDP00672
0.07451939Sardinian:HGDP00665
0.07522570Sardinian:HGDP01075
0.07729441Sardinian:HGDP01063
0.07785505Sardinian:HGDP01067
0.08140553Sardinian:HGDP01073
0.08334604Sardinian:HGDP01066
0.08729519Sardinian:HGDP01078
0.08767246Sardinian:HGDP00671
0.08886065Sardinian:S_Sardinian-2
0.09164748Sardinian:HGDP00674
0.09791283Italian_Campania:CMP_b007_2
0.10156992French_Corsica:CorsicaS10208
0.10194984French_Corsica:Corsica03708
0.10250347Italian_Jew:ItalyJew2
0.10258455Italian_Jew:ItalyJew3
0.10286484Italian_Campania:NaN195ST
0.10327320Romaniote_Jew:Romaniote4
0.10445641Italian_Apulia:pu3
0.10469991Sephardic_Jew:SephardicJew24276
0.10482746Italian_Calabria:ALP582
0.10516255French_Corsica:corsica1308
0.10550685Sephardic_Jew:sephardic14bul
0.10555527Italian_Jew:ItalyJew10
0.10606162Italian_Jew:ItalyJew9

GENETIC DISTANCE: LEVANT VS. ANATOLIA

Distance to:Levant_PPNB:BAJ001
0.11467520TUR_Tell_Kurdu_EC:KRD006
0.11596302TUR_Tell_Kurdu_EC:KRD003
0.12337218TUR_Tell_Kurdu_EC:KRD001
0.13064692TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N:Tep004
0.13099519TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N:Tep006
0.13152104TUR_Tell_Kurdu_MC:KRD002
0.13864373TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N:Tep003
0.14137715TUR_Tell_Kurdu_EC:KRD004
0.14802320TUR_Barcin_N:I1103
0.14802507TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N:Tep002
0.15121699TUR_Kumtepe_N:kum6
0.15229100TUR_Barcin_N:I0745
0.15285341TUR_Barcin_N:I1098
0.15429851TUR_Buyukkaya_EC:CBT018
0.15471732TUR_Barcin_N:I1101
0.15620402TUR_Barcin_N:I1099
0.15631343TUR_Barcin_N:I1583
0.15878425TUR_Barcin_N:I0708
0.16030326TUR_Barcin_N:I0736
0.16035256TUR_Barcin_N:I1581
0.16047584TUR_Barcin_N:I0707
0.16098703TUR_Barcin_N:I1580
0.16224672TUR_Barcin_N:I1097
0.16260144TUR_Barcin_N:I1102
0.16294108TUR_Barcin_N:I0709


Distance to:Levant_PPNB:I0867
0.08503868TUR_Tell_Kurdu_EC:KRD006
0.08812055TUR_Tell_Kurdu_EC:KRD003
0.09477869TUR_Tell_Kurdu_EC:KRD001
0.09566242TUR_Tell_Kurdu_EC:KRD004
0.10648213TUR_Tell_Kurdu_MC:KRD002
0.10664054TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N:Tep004
0.10770789TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N:Tep006
0.10845840TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N:Tep002
0.11227904TUR_Barcin_N:I1103
0.11475981TUR_Barcin_N:I1098
0.11563090TUR_Barcin_N:I1581
0.11716518TUR_Barcin_N:I1583
0.11721502TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N:Tep003
0.11806050TUR_Barcin_N:I1580
0.12021710TUR_Barcin_N:I0736
0.12031092TUR_Barcin_N:I1099
0.12085351TUR_Barcin_N:I0707
0.12092333TUR_Barcin_N:I1101
0.12282823TUR_Barcin_N:I1097
0.12317659TUR_Barcin_N:I0708
0.12340227TUR_Barcin_N:I0745
0.12375812TUR_Barcin_N:I1102
0.12414747TUR_Barcin_N:I0723
0.12604482TUR_Barcin_N:I1100
0.12762267TUR_Barcin_N:I0744


Distance to:Levant_PPNB:I1704
0.08424608TUR_Tell_Kurdu_EC:KRD006
0.08952674TUR_Tell_Kurdu_EC:KRD003
0.09265701TUR_Tell_Kurdu_EC:KRD001
0.09887992TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N:Tep004
0.10350613TUR_Tell_Kurdu_MC:KRD002
0.10496203TUR_Tell_Kurdu_EC:KRD004
0.10784249TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N:Tep006
0.11313852TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N:Tep003
0.11436927TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N:Tep002
0.11616284TUR_Barcin_N:I1103
0.11660952TUR_Barcin_N:I1098
0.12153944TUR_Barcin_N:I1583
0.12188064TUR_Barcin_N:I0745
0.12265562TUR_Barcin_N:I1099
0.12321288TUR_Barcin_N:I1580
0.12327239TUR_Barcin_N:I1581
0.12352086TUR_Barcin_N:I1101
0.12369151TUR_Kumtepe_N:kum6
0.12631843TUR_Barcin_N:I0707
0.12651497TUR_Barcin_N:I0736
0.12706754TUR_Barcin_N:I0708
0.12782611TUR_Barcin_N:I1097
0.12848199TUR_Barcin_N:I1102
0.12975291TUR_Barcin_N:I1100
0.12993585TUR_Barcin_N:I0723


Distance to:Levant_PPNB:I1707
0.08824151TUR_Tell_Kurdu_EC:KRD006
0.09088006TUR_Tell_Kurdu_EC:KRD003
0.09330426TUR_Tell_Kurdu_EC:KRD001
0.10120114TUR_Tell_Kurdu_MC:KRD002
0.10764001TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N:Tep004
0.11323937TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N:Tep006
0.11432164TUR_Tell_Kurdu_EC:KRD004
0.11517000TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N:Tep003
0.12008128TUR_Barcin_N:I1103
0.12026043TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N:Tep002
0.12593508TUR_Barcin_N:I1098
0.12743434TUR_Barcin_N:I0745
0.12892241TUR_Kumtepe_N:kum6
0.12971536TUR_Barcin_N:I1101
0.12976708TUR_Barcin_N:I0708
0.12992724TUR_Barcin_N:I1583
0.13021591TUR_Buyukkaya_EC:CBT018
0.13128965TUR_Barcin_N:I1581
0.13257008TUR_Barcin_N:I0707
0.13260941TUR_Barcin_N:I1099
0.13438090TUR_Barcin_N:I1580
0.13445362TUR_Barcin_N:I1102
0.13471279TUR_Barcin_N:I1097
0.13544604TUR_Barcin_N:I0736
0.13844636TUR_Barcin_N:I1100


Distance to:Levant_PPNB:I1710
0.08183354TUR_Tell_Kurdu_EC:KRD006
0.08870011TUR_Tell_Kurdu_EC:KRD003
0.09032972TUR_Tell_Kurdu_EC:KRD001
0.09397471TUR_Tell_Kurdu_EC:KRD004
0.09507766TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N:Tep002
0.09774276TUR_Tell_Kurdu_MC:KRD002
0.10031070TUR_Barcin_N:I1098
0.10058383TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N:Tep006
0.10347375TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N:Tep003
0.10400370TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N:Tep004
0.10483433TUR_Barcin_N:I1581
0.10521050TUR_Barcin_N:I1103
0.10583914TUR_Barcin_N:I1580
0.10769646TUR_Barcin_N:I0736
0.10896576TUR_Barcin_N:I1583
0.11069886TUR_Barcin_N:I1099
0.11135791TUR_Barcin_N:I0708
0.11186268TUR_Barcin_N:I0707
0.11204973TUR_Barcin_N:I1101
0.11209743TUR_Barcin_N:I1097
0.11427244TUR_Barcin_N:I0724
0.11526345TUR_Barcin_N:I0723
0.11565291TUR_Barcin_N:I1102
0.11592432TUR_Barcin_N:I0745
0.11752732TUR_Barcin_N:I0744
 
Last edited:
I do indeed see the issue, but the problem is that it has never been made clear to me which steppe sample represents the people likeliest to actually have moved into central and southern Europe.

It would seem that the amount of Caucasus like ancestry in the steppe sample is going to determine the outcome. People with different percentages might and probably did go to different places in Europe, as was the case with the Anatolia Neolithic samples.

I heard talk that perhaps the Greek speakers actually came from around Yamnaya but I don't know if there's any hard evidence to support that.

What are the most proximate samples, in your opinion, for the steppe people who actually entered southern Europe?

If there's no evidence for a clear favorite, then perhaps they should be averaged, as Fernandes did for the Anatolian Neolithic.

This is the kind of thing I have often talked about where if you know the calculator in question well enough, and the make up of the individual samples well enough, you can design a model to support your position.

I hasten to say I'm not accusing anyone posting here of doing that.
It's not clear, indeed, as far as I can see. Well, researchers have been working with Yamnaya as the main source of Steppe ancestry in Europe. Also, IIRC some people claim that CW would have been pretty Yamnaya-like at certain point; others, and not only Ygorcs, suggest the main source (comparatively poorer in CHG) was not sampled yet, and it could have been closer to Kvhalynsk than to Yamnaya, and on and on. There's also this possibility that there was more than one source, so...

Anyway, that's also why I followed Ygorcs and added Khvalynsk, but I kept Yamnaya to see how the tool would behave when distant admixtures are penalized, in the hope it would be able to distinguish better the contributions. In this approach, the Steppe ancestry itself seemed more realistic, lower than using no penalty.

However, Angela (and also Ygorcs), importantly, I noticed that sources that get no score may still slightly interfere with results, which seems strange. Even worst, each run generates different results in R when using pen = 0.001. I still have to check if the order in the file also matters.
Well, not sure how to interpret it. The differences are not very big (we can have a notion of the contributions anyway), but they're there. This problem doesn't seem to happen with pen = 0. Perhaps a better approach would be working with averages from few runs when using pen = 0.001.

@Palermo
Ok. I'll see if I manage to do it later.

@Ygorcs
If you check my post, I suggested extra-Levant-related and extra-CHG/Iran-related forTepecik precisely (in relation to Barcin).
Chronologically we"d have something like:
AHG: no Levant-related and no CHG/Iran-related;

AAF
Boncuklu: no Levant-related, but with CHG/Iran-related;

ACF
Barcin: Levant-related and CHG/Iran-related;

Tepecik: extra-Levant-related and extra-CHG/Iran-related, compared to Barcin.

Levant PPNB samples were from between AAF and ACF periods. Levant PPNB must have received AAF-related ancestry.
 
Thought this might be of interest to some of you guys. From the look of it, I find it unlikely that Büyükkaya_EC, Kumtepe and Tepecik-Ciftlik really lacked any extra Levant_N/Natufian affinity higher than what you'd find in Barcin, Boncuklu or the earlier Pinarbasi_AHG and only had CHG/Iran added in an exclusively Anatolia-Caucasus-Iran cline. Unlike other ANF, who are consistently closest to Sardinians, those are strongly pulled much closer toward several individuals from groups that, even though today heavily admixed, are either Levantine (Lebanese), of Levantine origin (Jews) or living very close to the Levant (Cyprus, Kos), instead of any populations that are mainly just Anatolia+CHG/Iran with very no detectable (not already present in Barcin-like people) Levant_N. That tendency of comparatively closer affinity to partially Levant-derived populations is particularly strong in the majority (all but 1) of the Tepecik-Ciftlik samples. So, I keep my doubts that they are best modelled as simply part of an Anatolia:CHG/Iran cline without any even minor participation of the Levant in that history (though I'm sure they could be modelled without it, given how minor this admixture is and how relatively closely related it is to other ANF samples, so the fits won't get that worse just because you made your model without it).

Also, comparing Levant_PPNB samples to Anatolia_N ones, Tepecik-Ciftlik and Kumtepe appear consistently much closer to them than Barcin_N and Boncuklu_N as well as Buyukkaya_EC, with most individuals not much more distant than the confirmed Levant_N-shifted (according to the authors of the paper) Tell Kurdu. The higher distance of Buyukkaya_EC is probably explained by the significant extra (beyond what was already in Tepecik-like people) CHG/Iran_N, which was a far more divergent and thus more distant admixture, because on the whole it was clearly more Tepecik-like than Barcin-like.

CLOSEST GENETIC DISTANCES TO:

Distance to:TUR_Buyukkaya_EC:CBT018
0.05619294Cypriot:Cyprus22AJ19
0.05848623Greek_Kos:GreeceKos8
0.05896804Cypriot:Cyprus24AJ19
0.06036881Greek_Kos:GreeceKos1
0.06168936Italian_Jew:ItalyJew3
0.06244073Cypriot:CYP19
0.06252732Cypriot:CYP5
0.06313818Greek_Crete:Crete7
0.06327482Cypriot:CYP2
0.06413110Italian_Jew:ItalyJew5
0.06430862Lebanese_Christian:Lebanese4AQ115
0.06436686Greek_Kos:GreeceKos5
0.06456939Romaniote_Jew:Romaniote3
0.06503770Romaniote_Jew:Romaniote2
0.06521063Greek_Central_Anatolia:G2501
0.06524364Italian_Campania:NaN195ST
0.06542570Greek_Central_Anatolia:G2503
0.06572279Greek_Kos:GreeceKos7
0.06588541Romaniote_Jew:Romaniote5
0.06596438Italian_Calabria:ALP582
0.06605272Lebanese_Christian:Lebanese10AR37
0.06606180Greek_Kos:GreeceKos9
0.06612712Romaniote_Jew:Romaniote4
0.06636724Greek_Kos:GreeceKos4
0.06708272Italian_Campania:NaN275IS
0.06720562Sephardic_Jew:sephardic14bul
0.06724789Greek_Kos:GreeceKos10
0.06786895Romaniote_Jew:Romaniote1
0.06789378Greek_Kos:GreeceKos2
0.06795773Italian_Campania:NaN77FAM
0.06810467Italian_Jew:ItalyJew2
0.06870596Sephardic_Jew:SephardicJew24276
0.06903087Italian_Campania:CMP_b001_2
0.06927208Sephardic_Jew:SephardicJew4953
0.06928037Italian_Campania:CMP_b007_2

Distance to:TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N:Tep006
0.07783184Italian_Jew:ItalyJew3
0.08119204Romaniote_Jew:Romaniote4
0.08383588Cypriot:Cyprus24AJ19
0.08582248Tunisian_Jew:TunisianJew1763
0.08620921Italian_Jew:ItalyJew5
0.08649028Sephardic_Jew:sephardic14bul
0.08656127Tunisian_Jew:TunisianJew1531
0.08712490Romaniote_Jew:Romaniote3
0.08853001Italian_Jew:ItalyJew4
0.08875517Moroccan_Jew:MoroccanJew5126
0.08900950Tunisian_Jew:TunisianJew1421
0.08911637Italian_Jew:ItalyJew9
0.08916056Italian_Jew:ItalyJew2
0.08935670Greek_Kos:GreeceKos1
0.08936558Italian_Campania:CMP_b007_2
0.08951174Sephardic_Jew:GRC12118122
0.08961138Sephardic_Jew:SephardicJew24276
0.08969244Sephardic_Jew:SephardicJew4953
0.08990144Cypriot:Cyprus22AJ19
0.09009642Sephardic_Jew:GRC12118128
0.09022338Sardinian:HGDP00672
0.09026641Romaniote_Jew:Romaniote2
0.09092755Romaniote_Jew:Romaniote5
0.09177845Italian_Jew:ItalyJew8
0.09206306Tunisian_Jew:TunisianJew1170


Distance to:TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N:Tep004
0.08161905Italian_Jew:ItalyJew3
0.08203562Romaniote_Jew:Romaniote4
0.08647044Italian_Jew:ItalyJew5
0.08689151Romaniote_Jew:Romaniote3
0.08918307Italian_Campania:CMP_b007_2
0.08985923Italian_Jew:ItalyJew2
0.09022619Sephardic_Jew:SephardicJew24276
0.09058792Tunisian_Jew:TunisianJew1763
0.09062833Tunisian_Jew:TunisianJew1531
0.09073282Italian_Jew:ItalyJew4
0.09078542Sephardic_Jew:sephardic14bul
0.09123784Sephardic_Jew:SephardicJew4953
0.09128026Cypriot:Cyprus24AJ19
0.09174334Sardinian:HGDP00672
0.09175816Italian_Jew:ItalyJew9
0.09180596Greek_Kos:GreeceKos1
0.09195126Cypriot:Cyprus22AJ19
0.09237083Tunisian_Jew:TunisianJew1421
0.09306355Italian_Apulia:pu3
0.09312719Moroccan_Jew:MoroccanJew5126
0.09317281Sephardic_Jew:GRC12118097
0.09330190Italian_Campania:NaN65DFG
0.09372744Romaniote_Jew:Romaniote2
0.09398185Romaniote_Jew:Romaniote5
0.09407079Italian_Calabria:ALP582


Distance to:TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N:Tep003
0.06612069Italian_Jew:ItalyJew3
0.06752017Cypriot:Cyprus24AJ19
0.06864480Romaniote_Jew:Romaniote4
0.07016443Cypriot:Cyprus22AJ19
0.07054681Sephardic_Jew:SephardicJew24276
0.07145201Greek_Crete:Crete7
0.07206077Italian_Campania:CMP_b007_2
0.07261529Greek_Kos:GreeceKos5
0.07270155Romaniote_Jew:Romaniote3
0.07302899Greek_Kos:GreeceKos1
0.07310681Italian_Campania:NaN195ST
0.07324888Italian_Jew:ItalyJew5
0.07340100Italian_Jew:ItalyJew2
0.07348141Italian_Jew:ItalyJew10
0.07378319Italian_Apulia:pu3
0.07380864Romaniote_Jew:Romaniote2
0.07406104Romaniote_Jew:Romaniote5
0.07479388Sephardic_Jew:SephardicJew4953
0.07512701Italian_Calabria:ALP582
0.07524743Cypriot:CYP2
0.07565588Greek_Kos:GreeceKos2
0.07580079Greek_Kos:GreeceKos8
0.07600420Lebanese_Christian:Lebanese4AQ115
0.07602093Italian_Abruzzo:ALP205
0.07602826Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_4


Distance to:TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N:Tep002
0.07949427Sardinian:HGDP00665
0.08027154Sardinian:HGDP00672
0.08327072Sardinian:HGDP01063
0.08692853Sardinian:HGDP01067
0.08862466Sardinian:HGDP01075
0.08985020Italian_Campania:CMP_b007_2
0.09127246Sardinian:HGDP01078
0.09159680Sardinian:S_Sardinian-2
0.09189573Sardinian:HGDP00671
0.09197428Italian_Campania:NaN195ST
0.09209790Sephardic_Jew:SephardicJew24276
0.09300752Sardinian:HGDP01073
0.09425037Italian_Jew:ItalyJew10
0.09527881Italian_Jew:ItalyJew2
0.09528242French_Corsica:Corsica03708
0.09608390Sardinian:HGDP01066
0.09701064Italian_Apulia:pu3
0.09724506Cypriot:Cyprus22AJ19
0.09728082Italian_Jew:ItalyJew3
0.09770383Italian_Calabria:ALP582
0.09773373Romaniote_Jew:Romaniote4
0.09813541Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_1
0.09858622Italian_Basilicata:pG25
0.09866615Italian_Jew:ItalyJew7
0.09885649Greek_Crete:Crete7


Distance to:TUR_Kumtepe_N:kum6
0.07448993Italian_Jew:ItalyJew3
0.07483299Italian_Campania:CMP_b007_2
0.07576479Romaniote_Jew:Romaniote4
0.07619072Italian_Apulia:pu3
0.07665219Italian_Campania:CMP_b005_2
0.07669434Sicilian_East:EastSicilian2H
0.07684932Sephardic_Jew:SephardicJew24276
0.07736460Italian_Jew:ItalyJew2
0.07800805Italian_Calabria:ALP582
0.07872851Italian_Basilicata:pG20
0.07912070Greek_Crete:Crete7
0.07935267Greek_Kos:GreeceKos1
0.07947786Sardinian:HGDP00672
0.07956981Italian_Campania:NaN195ST
0.07985500Italian_Campania:NaN46TC
0.07998311Italian_Jew:ItalyJew5
0.08011884Romaniote_Jew:Romaniote3
0.08058599Sephardic_Jew:sephardic14bul
0.08059896Italian_Jew:ItalyJew9
0.08072907Greek_Kos:GreeceKos5
0.08083146Maltese:Malta15AM91
0.08129719Sephardic_Jew:SephardicJew4953
0.08171840Italian_Apulia:pu7
0.08187716Italian_Calabria:ALP596
0.08194836Italian_Campania:NaN275IS

Distance to:TUR_Barcin_N:I1583
0.07842168Sardinian:HGDP00672
0.08064705Sardinian:HGDP01075
0.08275450Sardinian:HGDP00665
0.08387873Sardinian:HGDP01063
0.08451324Sardinian:HGDP01067
0.08631972Sardinian:HGDP01073
0.08993507Sardinian:HGDP01066
0.09310765Sardinian:HGDP00671
0.09375059Sardinian:HGDP01078
0.09512188Sardinian:S_Sardinian-2
0.09669250Sardinian:HGDP00674
0.11127426Italian_Campania:CMP_b007_2
0.11290561French_Corsica:CorsicaS10208
0.11386614French_Corsica:Corsica03708
0.11653179French_Corsica:corsica1308
0.11713637Italian_Campania:NaN195ST
0.11817232Italian_Apulia:pu3
0.11820644Sephardic_Jew:SephardicJew24276
0.11832132Italian_Jew:ItalyJew3
0.11856837Italian_Jew:ItalyJew2
0.11896434Romaniote_Jew:Romaniote4
0.11980303French_Corsica:Corsica19508
0.12000111French_Corsica:Corsica29708
0.12001038French_Corsica:CorsicaS29908
0.12029216Italian_Basilicata:pG20


Distance to:TUR_Barcin_N:I1581
0.08267126Sardinian:HGDP00665
0.08561970Sardinian:HGDP01063
0.08620401Sardinian:HGDP01075
0.08665795Sardinian:HGDP00672
0.08942567Sardinian:HGDP01067
0.09193371Sardinian:HGDP00671
0.09339714Sardinian:HGDP01066
0.09432365Sardinian:HGDP01073
0.09704821Sardinian:S_Sardinian-2
0.09770569Sardinian:HGDP01078
0.10703229Sardinian:HGDP00674
0.11552969Italian_Campania:CMP_b007_2
0.11824071French_Corsica:CorsicaS10208
0.11880621French_Corsica:Corsica03708
0.11967892French_Corsica:corsica1308
0.12005339Italian_Campania:NaN195ST
0.12157303French_Corsica:Corsica19508
0.12296745Sephardic_Jew:SephardicJew24276
0.12334248Italian_Jew:ItalyJew2
0.12344677Italian_Jew:ItalyJew10
0.12461101Italian_Apulia:pu3
0.12463992Italian_Jew:ItalyJew3
0.12501007Italian_Calabria:ALP582
0.12572558French_Corsica:CorsicaS29908
0.12615685Italian_Basilicata:pG20


Distance to:TUR_Barcin_N:I1580
0.08173157Sardinian:HGDP01063
0.08244882Sardinian:HGDP00665
0.08261927Sardinian:HGDP00672
0.08264346Sardinian:HGDP01075
0.08661107Sardinian:HGDP01067
0.08998998Sardinian:HGDP00671
0.09033272Sardinian:HGDP01073
0.09172584Sardinian:HGDP01066
0.09334882Sardinian:S_Sardinian-2
0.09347792Sardinian:HGDP01078
0.10404224Sardinian:HGDP00674
0.10964629Italian_Campania:CMP_b007_2
0.11159682French_Corsica:CorsicaS10208
0.11185453French_Corsica:Corsica03708
0.11301952French_Corsica:corsica1308
0.11428321Italian_Campania:NaN195ST
0.11676057Italian_Apulia:pu3
0.11678322Sephardic_Jew:SephardicJew24276
0.11776283French_Corsica:Corsica19508
0.11788291Italian_Jew:ItalyJew2
0.11858828French_Corsica:CorsicaS29908
0.11923746Italian_Basilicata:pG20
0.11978913Italian_Jew:ItalyJew10
0.11997743Italian_Jew:ItalyJew3
0.12023190Italian_Basilicata:pG25


Distance to:TUR_Barcin_N:I1103
0.07057967Sardinian:HGDP00672
0.07451939Sardinian:HGDP00665
0.07522570Sardinian:HGDP01075
0.07729441Sardinian:HGDP01063
0.07785505Sardinian:HGDP01067
0.08140553Sardinian:HGDP01073
0.08334604Sardinian:HGDP01066
0.08729519Sardinian:HGDP01078
0.08767246Sardinian:HGDP00671
0.08886065Sardinian:S_Sardinian-2
0.09164748Sardinian:HGDP00674
0.09791283Italian_Campania:CMP_b007_2
0.10156992French_Corsica:CorsicaS10208
0.10194984French_Corsica:Corsica03708
0.10250347Italian_Jew:ItalyJew2
0.10258455Italian_Jew:ItalyJew3
0.10286484Italian_Campania:NaN195ST
0.10327320Romaniote_Jew:Romaniote4
0.10445641Italian_Apulia:pu3
0.10469991Sephardic_Jew:SephardicJew24276
0.10482746Italian_Calabria:ALP582
0.10516255French_Corsica:corsica1308
0.10550685Sephardic_Jew:sephardic14bul
0.10555527Italian_Jew:ItalyJew10
0.10606162Italian_Jew:ItalyJew9

GENETIC DISTANCE: LEVANT VS. ANATOLIA

Distance to:Levant_PPNB:BAJ001
0.11467520TUR_Tell_Kurdu_EC:KRD006
0.11596302TUR_Tell_Kurdu_EC:KRD003
0.12337218TUR_Tell_Kurdu_EC:KRD001
0.13064692TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N:Tep004
0.13099519TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N:Tep006
0.13152104TUR_Tell_Kurdu_MC:KRD002
0.13864373TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N:Tep003
0.14137715TUR_Tell_Kurdu_EC:KRD004
0.14802320TUR_Barcin_N:I1103
0.14802507TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N:Tep002
0.15121699TUR_Kumtepe_N:kum6
0.15229100TUR_Barcin_N:I0745
0.15285341TUR_Barcin_N:I1098
0.15429851TUR_Buyukkaya_EC:CBT018
0.15471732TUR_Barcin_N:I1101
0.15620402TUR_Barcin_N:I1099
0.15631343TUR_Barcin_N:I1583
0.15878425TUR_Barcin_N:I0708
0.16030326TUR_Barcin_N:I0736
0.16035256TUR_Barcin_N:I1581
0.16047584TUR_Barcin_N:I0707
0.16098703TUR_Barcin_N:I1580
0.16224672TUR_Barcin_N:I1097
0.16260144TUR_Barcin_N:I1102
0.16294108TUR_Barcin_N:I0709


Distance to:Levant_PPNB:I0867
0.08503868TUR_Tell_Kurdu_EC:KRD006
0.08812055TUR_Tell_Kurdu_EC:KRD003
0.09477869TUR_Tell_Kurdu_EC:KRD001
0.09566242TUR_Tell_Kurdu_EC:KRD004
0.10648213TUR_Tell_Kurdu_MC:KRD002
0.10664054TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N:Tep004
0.10770789TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N:Tep006
0.10845840TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N:Tep002
0.11227904TUR_Barcin_N:I1103
0.11475981TUR_Barcin_N:I1098
0.11563090TUR_Barcin_N:I1581
0.11716518TUR_Barcin_N:I1583
0.11721502TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N:Tep003
0.11806050TUR_Barcin_N:I1580
0.12021710TUR_Barcin_N:I0736
0.12031092TUR_Barcin_N:I1099
0.12085351TUR_Barcin_N:I0707
0.12092333TUR_Barcin_N:I1101
0.12282823TUR_Barcin_N:I1097
0.12317659TUR_Barcin_N:I0708
0.12340227TUR_Barcin_N:I0745
0.12375812TUR_Barcin_N:I1102
0.12414747TUR_Barcin_N:I0723
0.12604482TUR_Barcin_N:I1100
0.12762267TUR_Barcin_N:I0744


Distance to:Levant_PPNB:I1704
0.08424608TUR_Tell_Kurdu_EC:KRD006
0.08952674TUR_Tell_Kurdu_EC:KRD003
0.09265701TUR_Tell_Kurdu_EC:KRD001
0.09887992TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N:Tep004
0.10350613TUR_Tell_Kurdu_MC:KRD002
0.10496203TUR_Tell_Kurdu_EC:KRD004
0.10784249TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N:Tep006
0.11313852TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N:Tep003
0.11436927TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N:Tep002
0.11616284TUR_Barcin_N:I1103
0.11660952TUR_Barcin_N:I1098
0.12153944TUR_Barcin_N:I1583
0.12188064TUR_Barcin_N:I0745
0.12265562TUR_Barcin_N:I1099
0.12321288TUR_Barcin_N:I1580
0.12327239TUR_Barcin_N:I1581
0.12352086TUR_Barcin_N:I1101
0.12369151TUR_Kumtepe_N:kum6
0.12631843TUR_Barcin_N:I0707
0.12651497TUR_Barcin_N:I0736
0.12706754TUR_Barcin_N:I0708
0.12782611TUR_Barcin_N:I1097
0.12848199TUR_Barcin_N:I1102
0.12975291TUR_Barcin_N:I1100
0.12993585TUR_Barcin_N:I0723


Distance to:Levant_PPNB:I1707
0.08824151TUR_Tell_Kurdu_EC:KRD006
0.09088006TUR_Tell_Kurdu_EC:KRD003
0.09330426TUR_Tell_Kurdu_EC:KRD001
0.10120114TUR_Tell_Kurdu_MC:KRD002
0.10764001TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N:Tep004
0.11323937TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N:Tep006
0.11432164TUR_Tell_Kurdu_EC:KRD004
0.11517000TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N:Tep003
0.12008128TUR_Barcin_N:I1103
0.12026043TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N:Tep002
0.12593508TUR_Barcin_N:I1098
0.12743434TUR_Barcin_N:I0745
0.12892241TUR_Kumtepe_N:kum6
0.12971536TUR_Barcin_N:I1101
0.12976708TUR_Barcin_N:I0708
0.12992724TUR_Barcin_N:I1583
0.13021591TUR_Buyukkaya_EC:CBT018
0.13128965TUR_Barcin_N:I1581
0.13257008TUR_Barcin_N:I0707
0.13260941TUR_Barcin_N:I1099
0.13438090TUR_Barcin_N:I1580
0.13445362TUR_Barcin_N:I1102
0.13471279TUR_Barcin_N:I1097
0.13544604TUR_Barcin_N:I0736
0.13844636TUR_Barcin_N:I1100


Distance to:Levant_PPNB:I1710
0.08183354TUR_Tell_Kurdu_EC:KRD006
0.08870011TUR_Tell_Kurdu_EC:KRD003
0.09032972TUR_Tell_Kurdu_EC:KRD001
0.09397471TUR_Tell_Kurdu_EC:KRD004
0.09507766TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N:Tep002
0.09774276TUR_Tell_Kurdu_MC:KRD002
0.10031070TUR_Barcin_N:I1098
0.10058383TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N:Tep006
0.10347375TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N:Tep003
0.10400370TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N:Tep004
0.10483433TUR_Barcin_N:I1581
0.10521050TUR_Barcin_N:I1103
0.10583914TUR_Barcin_N:I1580
0.10769646TUR_Barcin_N:I0736
0.10896576TUR_Barcin_N:I1583
0.11069886TUR_Barcin_N:I1099
0.11135791TUR_Barcin_N:I0708
0.11186268TUR_Barcin_N:I0707
0.11204973TUR_Barcin_N:I1101
0.11209743TUR_Barcin_N:I1097
0.11427244TUR_Barcin_N:I0724
0.11526345TUR_Barcin_N:I0723
0.11565291TUR_Barcin_N:I1102
0.11592432TUR_Barcin_N:I0745
0.11752732TUR_Barcin_N:I0744


nice (y)
nice to see the short distance of some of those ancients to italian jews :cool-v:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tepecik-Çiftlik
 

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