Free and independent Kurdistan is coming soon.

Kurds are peaceful folks. We wanted to liberate Northern Kurdistan through peaceful way. The so called peace process is finished, Turks can't play games any longer. They're desperate.

Almost forty thousand Turkish soldiers were killed by PKK over the last 20 years. Let me tell you how you wanted to liberate Northern Kurdistan in a peaceful way. Some rat founded a vile terrorist organization, which is PKK, of which bandits dredged up unborn babies from the wombs of their mothers with bayonets, tortured children until they no longer breathed, arranged countless raids to harbour patrols, sold heroin to teenagers and made them addicted so that they could buy new guns. That's how peaceful you are. No less savage than IS. Kurds are peaceful folks? Not if they support PKK. Now, you demand help from Turkey. Well, that makes you a little pathetic.
 
Turkey is a terrorist state and is using state terror on it’s neighbours. In the past Turks genocide many ethnicities, but this time they will not succeed. This time Turkey will be abolished before it can commit some horrible crimes again against innocent women and children. Btw, I’m sure that my freedom humanist organisation the PKK killed much more than 4000 Turkic terrorists. How many so called suicide were reported in Turkye, ha?
 
I thought that the Turks love rats, mad dogs and wolves, since they love Daesh rats, mad dogs. But I will promise you, that we Kurds will exterminate all those Islamic Turkish ISIS rats and mad dogs very soon in the near future. They're useless, failed and angry people, and useless people who commit crimes have no tight to live! Soon there will be no Daesh and Turks will be on their own. And they will have to face 50 million Kurds!
 
Turkish Support for ISIS and the reality of the Kurdish Question

Because of just how big of a topic this is I am going to direct the bulk of my answers into a new thread that I will create. The sheer volume of information about this needs to be addressed in a uniform way with headings, links and all relevant information in one easy to find place.

I will post all known links between Turkey, Syria, Iraq, PKK, YPD, KRG, Iran, FSA, the West and all other known actors in the multi axis conflict that is going on in the middle east. From ISIS to Al Qaeda and other terror listed groups and who supports whom.


To Diocletian do not worry there is plenty of mud to sling when it comes to ISIS but you cannot ignore Turkey's role while blaming Washington for everything. I am also going to add that you do not have an objective view towards the Kurdish question. Your number of 40,000 dead soldiers is a misrepresentation of the truth. A quick Google search would prove this! You scream about PKK but not one time have I seen you try to understand what caused the PKK to be created int he first place. Widespread discrimination of the Kurdish people on a massive scale for the ENTIRE history of what we know as the Republic of Turkey. I will make sure to list each and every law, massacre and injustice done to the Kurds to lead to the creation of PKK for you in great detail in my new series of threads.
 
THE IMPORTANCE OF KOMBANE TOWN.

what make Kombane a 'wanted' city for IS?

Kombane is town at the borders near turkey, nothing important, nothing special,
then why IS lost so much forces on taking it and is important to IS as much as to send even suiciders 'man bombs'

by looking at the map we surely can realize its position,
Kombane is a corridor,

Iraq soon will be Bagdat and souroundings, and North ex-Iraq might be the 'free Kurdistan'
but there is oil there, and that oil must find an exit,
The Mussulle oil must be sold, but who will get the profit of 'protection'?

in that case Kombane is an important city,

there are oil pipe lines (corridors) that transfer oil to Arabian Gulf and Mediterennean,
now if IS takes Kombane then 2 options exists.
1. the pipe lines pass from Turkey, which means money for Turkey, stronger position and EXCLUSIVE OIL TRANSPORTER and seller, A MONOPOLION , since Russian, Azer, etc etc pipe lines pass through Turkey
2. the pipe lines pass from Kombane but are in control of IS, that means money to Jihadists,

now if Kombane stays under Kurds, that means a forced unification of Kurds, since North Kurdistan Mossulle and West Kurdistan will profit the oil, and Kombane will be the 'pipe line' the road of oil to mediterrennean sea.
that makes Kombane a 'desirable' city, so desirable, that IS is interested more, than to take Bagdat, and Turkey to face a civil war, by healing' Jihadists and arresting her own wounded citizens.

now I do not know if in case of Kombane, if IS is working for Turkey, or Turkey is working for IS, or both for their own, but from the numbers more than 3500 Jihadists dead for that town, we can realize the importance.

the enclosure of kombane started with 4 000 jihadists and now are more than 12 000 Jihadists there,

the passport show much Chechenian origin of Jihadists there, and some turkish passport citizenship but from another nativity, origin.

It seems now that is not Ukraine for Syrria, but more,

personally at the begin I believed that the chess game among Obama and Putin was Syrria (Assand) and Ukraine. but seems Turkey is also in that chess game,


PS
to expand more think the Λαττακεια Latakia harbor (exit of the previous corridor) to unite with Israeli/Cyprus oil deposits and pipe lines,
 
It's all about the survival. Kurds have their own interests. Kurds (children of the Medes) from Kurdistan (land of the Sun & Fire) will choose what is the best for them. We survived for thousands of years. We survived in much more difficult times. And of course, this time we will survive too. There're 50 million Kurds! No matter what, there will be a free independent Great Kurdistan. Personally I do believe that an alliance with Russia & Persia are the best for Kurdish interests. And that one day Kurdistan and Persia will make a pact and form some kind of an 'Iranian Union'. Persian and Kurds together will be very strong. It's obvious that the Turks & Sunni Arabs are the biggest enemies of the 'Iranic race'. I sincerely hope that Kurdish leaders will go through this path…

I don't quite get your point!
That an independent Kurdish state is a legitimate dream I get that. Now dreams sometimes come true sometimes not. I hope Kurdish dream of an independent state comes true. But Union with Iran? Iran is assimilating its Kurds within its borders. That means in a few centuries they will be proud Iranians. If you join Iran they will make sure you speak their language and have a mullah as the head of state. So if you want to become someone else what's the point of independence?
Turkey is a major player and an important USA partner. Knowing that Greece, Bulgaria and Serbia have strong cultural and economic ties with Russia, mutual sympathy for each other and strong economic ties, do you really think USA will throw Turkey under the bus for an Iraqi Kurdistan?
There are 65 million Turks in Turkey and its hard to ignore them.
So my point is Kurdish independence will be decided in Ankara.
 
I don't quite get your point!
Turkey is a major player and an important USA partner. Knowing that Greece, Bulgaria and Serbia have strong cultural and economic ties with Russia, mutual sympathy for each other and strong economic ties, do you really think USA will throw Turkey under the bus for an Iraqi Kurdistan?
There are 65 million Turks in Turkey and its hard to ignore them.
So my point is Kurdish independence will be decided in Ankara.

Turkey used to be a major partner and ally but under the AK party it has been increasingly uncooperative and it has lead to increasing divisions between Washington and Ankara. I have said before that this will cause diplomatic isolation for Turkey for being uncooperative and you see the results today. as they were passed over for position on the UN security table. (Spain and New Zealand got the spots) source

As an American veteran I can tell you that we are deeply vested in Iraq and the Kurds in particular have always been a loyal ally.

We will not throw 'Turkey" under the bus but after 3 years of allowing them to direct the FSA and allowing them political control of the "recognized" opposition in Syria it has gotten out of hand. Obama recently mocked the FSA and started bypassing the Turkish backed leadership and supplying and communicating with units on our own. Under Turkish guidance the Kurds in Syria were shunned and left out of the main voice for unifying the opposition in Syria. They were not present in 2011-2012 for the summits in Turkey and the one they went to in Cairo was a disaster because the Turkish backed speaker openly mocked the Kurds and when the Kurdish speaker went to speak back it lead to a fist fight!

As of today the US State Department confirmed that this weekend they have had direct talks with the PYD the main Syrian Kurdish political alliance... you may have heard of the YPG-YPJ fighters in Kobane in the news. The Turks HATE the PYD because they think of them as the Syrian version of PKK.

This is significant because this week Obama said he is looking for "moderate" rebels to back. When your choices are the failed Turkish lead FSA that was backed by the UK&USA or a long list of Islamic brigades that either work with al-nursa or ISIS who does that lave? Thats right the Syrian Kurds who today the US State Department held direct talks with and this week started direct military aid to the YPG. Check out twitter for some great stuff on it. source

And guess what else happened today? The government of Iraqi Kurdistan the Kurdish regional Government held a meeting with the PYD to mend fences and unite in the face of ISIS attack. This is also significant because before the KRG did not support the Syrian Kurds unilateral decoration of autonomy. As all of this is happening today more and more comments are coming out.

The Kurdish Regional Government is now officially recognizing Rojava!

The parliament in South Kurdistan decided yesterday to develop relationships with the cantons of Rojava after a day-long debate. 79 deputies approved a motion calling on the Federal Kurdistan Government to improve links with the administrations in Rojava.

After a debate yesterday in the South Kurdistan parliament, a motion was passed calling for relationships to be developed with the cantons established in Cizire (Jazireh), Afrin and Kobanê.

The following articles are in the motion passed by parliament asking for the Federal Kurdistan administration to develop relations with the administrations in Rojava.

1-The Kurdistan Parliament supports the will of the people of Rojava and wants the Kurdistan Regional Government to develop formal relations with the administrations in Rojava.

2- The government should be in material solidarity with Rojava.

3- The relevant bodies should implement this decision.

4- There should be absolutely no action contrary to this decision.

5- This decision will come into force after it is officially published by the Kurdistan Regional Parliament.




IN SUMMARY BIG DEVELOPMENTS THIS WEEK: Good news for the Kurds in Syria and Iraq but very sad news coming out of Turkey
1. Direct communication between US Military and PYG fighters in Kobani (a snub to turkey)
2. State Department has direct talks with PYD for the first time (a snub to Turkey)
3. Iraqi and Syrian Kurds work out differences in attempt to stand unified in the face of ISIS (I think this is the magical moderate opposition Obama has been looking for to train and supply)
4. Turkey fails in its bid to get a seat on the UN Security Council (Spain and New Zealand got the spots)
 
Turkey used to be a major partner and ally but under the AK party it has been increasingly uncooperative and it has lead to increasing divisions between Washington and Ankara. I have said before that this will cause diplomatic isolation for Turkey for being uncooperative and you see the results today. as they were passed over for position on the UN security table. (Spain and New Zealand got the spots) source

As an American veteran I can tell you that we are deeply vested in Iraq and the Kurds in particular have always been a loyal ally.

We will not throw 'Turkey" under the bus but after 3 years of allowing them to direct the FSA and allowing them political control of the "recognized" opposition in Syria it has gotten out of hand. Obama recently mocked the FSA and started bypassing the Turkish backed leadership and supplying and communicating with units on our own. Under Turkish guidance the Kurds in Syria were shunned and left out of the main voice for unifying the opposition in Syria. They were not present in 2011-2012 for the summits in Turkey and the one they went to in Cairo was a disaster because the Turkish backed speaker openly mocked the Kurds and when the Kurdish speaker went to speak back it lead to a fist fight!

As of today the US State Department confirmed that this weekend they have had direct talks with the PYD the main Syrian Kurdish political alliance... you may have heard of the YPG-YPJ fighters in Kobane in the news. The Turks HATE the PYD because they think of them as the Syrian version of PKK.

This is significant because this week Obama said he is looking for "moderate" rebels to back. When your choices are the failed Turkish lead FSA that was backed by the UK&USA or a long list of Islamic brigades that either work with al-nursa or ISIS who does that lave? Thats right the Syrian Kurds who today the US State Department held direct talks with and this week started direct military aid to the YPG. Check out twitter for some great stuff on it. source

And guess what else happened today? The government of Iraqi Kurdistan the Kurdish regional Government held a meeting with the PYD to mend fences and unite in the face of ISIS attack. This is also significant because before the KRG did not support the Syrian Kurds unilateral decoration of autonomy. As all of this is happening today more and more comments are coming out.

The Kurdish Regional Government is now officially recognizing Rojava!

The parliament in South Kurdistan decided yesterday to develop relationships with the cantons of Rojava after a day-long debate. 79 deputies approved a motion calling on the Federal Kurdistan Government to improve links with the administrations in Rojava.

After a debate yesterday in the South Kurdistan parliament, a motion was passed calling for relationships to be developed with the cantons established in Cizire (Jazireh), Afrin and Kobanê.

The following articles are in the motion passed by parliament asking for the Federal Kurdistan administration to develop relations with the administrations in Rojava.

1-The Kurdistan Parliament supports the will of the people of Rojava and wants the Kurdistan Regional Government to develop formal relations with the administrations in Rojava.

2- The government should be in material solidarity with Rojava.

3- The relevant bodies should implement this decision.

4- There should be absolutely no action contrary to this decision.

5- This decision will come into force after it is officially published by the Kurdistan Regional Parliament.




IN SUMMARY BIG DEVELOPMENTS THIS WEEK: Good news for the Kurds in Syria and Iraq but very sad news coming out of Turkey
1. Direct communication between US Military and PYG fighters in Kobani (a snub to turkey)
2. State Department has direct talks with PYD for the first time (a snub to Turkey)
3. Iraqi and Syrian Kurds work out differences in attempt to stand unified in the face of ISIS (I think this is the magical moderate opposition Obama has been looking for to train and supply)
4. Turkey fails in its bid to get a seat on the UN Security Council (Spain and New Zealand got the spots)
Turkey is a Nato member and USA is fighting hard to get them to the EU.
Kurds are not substitute for Turkey in terms of the regional importance.
I don't really think that USA will allow for now at least, Iraqi Kurds to be independent. They don't want to upset Turkey so they will ask Kurds to settle with autonomy. If Kurds attempt to proclaim their independence will immediately be under Turkish military assault. The USA will tell Kurds; I told you so;
Kurds can in fact get a mini state in Syria which I think Turkey might not oppose.
 
The Kurds in Syria are modling themselves much like in iraq where they remain within the state they are a part of now but with autonomy. The Turks oppose any rights to the kurds in syria.

You are missing the point I am trying to make. That the west is starting to back the Kurds outside of Turkey even if the Turks do not like it.

In the end Ankara has no power over international aid that is strengthening the Kurds as they are being made a part of the coalition to fight ISIS. If they are rewarded with equal rights in Syria as they are in Iraqi and granted the same rights as the Iraqi Kurds then it is a victory for the Kurds. None of the main Kurdish political parties in Iraq, Syria or Turkey are calling for outright independence, they are calling for equal rights, self determination and some autonomy.

(not even the terror listed PKK calls for independence)
 
Thanks Ua'Ronain for a detailed update. I'm glad Obama gave up on Turkey with supplying Kurds with military equipment.
Too bad Turkey sucumbs to its insecurities in regards to Kurds and doesn't want to play positive and constructive role in this region. It seems like Turkey doesn't want to do any moves not to screw up anything, to be blamed for outcomes, and embraces status quo. Even though the world is changing around them.
 
Thanks Ua'Ronain for a detailed update. I'm glad Obama gave up on Turkey with supplying Kurds with military equipment.
Too bad Turkey sucumbs to its insecurities in regards to Kurds and doesn't want to play positive and constructive role in this region. It seems like Turkey doesn't want to do any moves not to screw up anything, to be blamed for outcomes, and embraces status quo. Even though the world is changing around them.

I think Turkey probably is smelling something is being played behind its back. They will not blindly follow the Israelis.
For some time The Israelis have smelled oil in Kurdistan. They probably are pushing USA for recognition of Kurdish state but that will anger both Turkey and Iran which could end in a coalition.
I don't know but I think Turkey can not be ignored in the surrounding region.It did help USA in the Cold war and its contribution will not easily be forgotten.
Kurds had the best chance of independence now. They are not even talking about it. I think they have a good reason not to talk about it. But as I have said Kurdish independence will happen with USA blessing.
I wish them luck though. One can not deny others what is asking for themselves.
 
I think Turkey probably is smelling something is being played behind its back. They will not blindly follow the Israelis.
For some time The Israelis have smelled oil in Kurdistan. They probably are pushing USA for recognition of Kurdish state but that will anger both Turkey and Iran which could end in a coalition.
I don't know but I think Turkey can not be ignored in the surrounding region.It did help USA in the Cold war and its contribution will not easily be forgotten.
Kurds had the best chance of independence now. They are not even talking about it. I think they have a good reason not to talk about it. But as I have said Kurdish independence will happen with USA blessing.
I wish them luck though. One can not deny others what is asking for themselves.

Not everything is about oil and Israel.... Almost the whole world cares about the Palestinians and western countries are officially starting to recognize a Palestinian state. But god forbid we apply the same to the Kurds. Apparently hating the Kurds is the only acceptable form of racism left on the entire planet.

If we take out all of the geo-politics and apply our humanity it should be obvious to everyone that liberty and equality should be a universal right for everyone on our planet. The fact that we globally ignored the plight of the Kurds for so long is a disgrace.
 
Not everything is about oil and Israel.... Almost the whole world cares about the Palestinians and western countries are officially starting to recognize a Palestinian state. But god forbid we apply the same to the Kurds. Apparently hating the Kurds is the only acceptable form of racism left on the entire planet.

If we take out all of the geo-politics and apply our humanity it should be obvious to everyone that liberty and equality should be a universal right for everyone on our planet. The fact that we globally ignored the plight of the Kurds for so long is a disgrace.

Nobody is hating the Kurds. They have not done anything. They absolutely deserve the independence. But the real world is quite different. Humanity is not always taken into account. The interests play a huge role. Its not in Turkish interest an independent Kurdistan. They feel like an independent Iraqi Kurdistan will serve as base for uprising of Turkish Kurds. Any split Turkey- Kurds of Turkey will certainly involve violence.
In 1920 the whole Greek population of Turkey was exported to Greece when Greeks could not control their appetite. They wanted a big piece which got stuck in their throat.
So who can guarantee that can not happen again.
I think Kurdish Independence will come over a longer time.
There is no reason for USA to recognize a Kurd state at this point. They are not mistreated by the Iraqi government. ISIS is a risk for Iraqis too.
Everything can happen but thats the way I see it.
 
To Diocletian do not worry there is plenty of mud to sling when it comes to ISIS but you cannot ignore Turkey's role while blaming Washington for everything. I am also going to add that you do not have an objective view towards the Kurdish question. Your number of 40,000 dead soldiers is a misrepresentation of the truth. A quick Google search would prove this! You scream about PKK but not one time have I seen you try to understand what caused the PKK to be created int he first place. Widespread discrimination of the Kurdish people on a massive scale for the ENTIRE history of what we know as the Republic of Turkey. I will make sure to list each and every law, massacre and injustice done to the Kurds to lead to the creation of PKK for you in great detail in my new series of threads.

I don't ignore Turkey's involvement in the development of ISIS, but Washington is not as pure as the driven snow. You have to comprehend that in the first place. I do have an objective view towards the Kurdish issue. According to the official figures, the number of the casualties regarding the Turkish side will always be claimed lesser than the actual. Maybe you should allocate your time to learn Turkish and do more research on the topic by reading some books written by retired Turkish military officers and commanders that fought against PKK.

You think I won't speak about why PKK was created. Kurds were subject to an intense Turkification. Kurds are muslims, that's why they have been regarded as a part of the Turkish nation. Turkish authorities banned Kurdish language in the public institutions, such as courts, prisons, schools etc. They even denied that such a language actually exists. Kurdish towns had received harassment by the Turkish military police hundreds of times in the past and Kurdish rebels were massacred that they were put inside acid pits. You see? I am very objective, so you don't need to do anything for me to understand something that I already know of.
 
I don't ignore Turkey's involvement in the development of ISIS, but Washington is not as pure as the driven snow. You have to comprehend that in the first place. I do have an objective view towards the Kurdish issue. According to the official figures, the number of the casualties regarding the Turkish side will always be claimed lesser than the actual. Maybe you should allocate your time to learn Turkish and do more research on the topic by reading some books written by retired Turkish military officers and commanders that fought against PKK.

You think I won't speak about why PKK was created. Kurds were subject to an intense Turkification. Kurds are muslims, that's why they have been regarded as a part of the Turkish nation. Turkish authorities banned Kurdish language in the public institutions, such as courts, prisons, schools etc. They even denied that such a language actually exists. Kurdish towns had received harassment by the Turkish military police hundreds of times in the past and Kurdish rebels were massacred that they were put inside acid pits. You see? I am very objective, so you don't need to do anything for me to understand something that I already know of.

banning a language and culture of a group of people is racism in its extreme form .....you know this and everyone knows this. But since the concept of nationlism in the 18th century we see every nation percentage of lies have increased ten fold.

the term , "because they are muslim then they are part of the Turkish nation" is 100% wrong....what does religion have to do with ethnicity and nationalism?
 
Kurds must acquire full human rights and not mercy from "big boss".

This is century when Kurds should achieve full national affirmation and be on their own.
 
There is no reason for USA to recognize a Kurd state at this point. They are not mistreated by the Iraqi government. ISIS is a risk for Iraqis too.
Strong ally of US in Near East is always a good reason to have. Strong and independent Kurdistan would be a better friend of Europe and US than Turkey at the moment. ISIS is a common enemy of the West and Kurds. Kurds will be the only reliable ally, of all the involved parties, and "boots on the ground".

Who else we can trust? Double faced Turkish government? Corrupt and incapable Iraqis? Iran, who is enjoying the mess, which makes other countries weaker and taking Iran off center of attention in Middle East?
 
I don't ignore Turkey's involvement in the development of ISIS, but Washington is not as pure as the driven snow. You have to comprehend that in the first place. I do have an objective view towards the Kurdish issue. According to the official figures, the number of the casualties regarding the Turkish side will always be claimed lesser than the actual. Maybe you should allocate your time to learn Turkish and do more research on the topic by reading some books written by retired Turkish military officers and commanders that fought against PKK.

No way are the Turkish casualities even comparable to those of Kurds. Not even the slightest. All this conflict took place in the pred. Kurdish East not in Central nor Western Turkey. It was 3000 Kurdish villages destroyed and not a single Turkish one. I am not denying that there are Turkish casualities but you have to see it in an objective way. Those casualties are not the result of Kurdish "aggressions" towards peacefull Turkish public. It was a reaction to the century long oppression.

You think I won't speak about why PKK was created. Kurds were subject to an intense Turkification. Kurds are muslims, that's why they have been regarded as a part of the Turkish nation. Turkish authorities banned Kurdish language in the public institutions, such as courts, prisons, schools etc. They even denied that such a language actually exists. Kurdish towns had received harassment by the Turkish military police hundreds of times in the past and Kurdish rebels were massacred that they were put inside acid pits. You see? I am very objective, so you don't need to do anything for me to understand something that I already know of.

If it were only Kurdish rebels. Most of the massacred people were simple civilians. Massacred to give the Kurds the message of "keep silent or die".
 
I don't ignore Turkey's involvement in the development of ISIS, but Washington is not as pure as the driven snow. You have to comprehend that in the first place. I do have an objective view towards the Kurdish issue. According to the official figures, the number of the casualties regarding the Turkish side will always be claimed lesser than the actual. Maybe you should allocate your time to learn Turkish and do more research on the topic by reading some books written by retired Turkish military officers and commanders that fought against PKK.

You think I won't speak about why PKK was created. Kurds were subject to an intense Turkification. Kurds are muslims, that's why they have been regarded as a part of the Turkish nation. Turkish authorities banned Kurdish language in the public institutions, such as courts, prisons, schools etc. They even denied that such a language actually exists. Kurdish towns had received harassment by the Turkish military police hundreds of times in the past and Kurdish rebels were massacred that they were put inside acid pits. You see? I am very objective, so you don't need to do anything for me to understand something that I already know of.


Kurds were regarded as part of Turkish 'wider' nation, or as the valuable/precious ally from the battle of Manjikert almost a millenium before,
always indipentended and always under Ottomans or Neo Turks
the last alliance of Kurds and Turks was in1920's with Kemal and Topal Osman in Trapezous and Kerasous areas, (Trabzon Giresun)

if you are really a Turk then you know the 2 biggest allies of Turks in History were Kurds and Azeris,
and after 1500 Albanias (Arnauts) in Balkans, the ones who did not paid blood taxation

the Kurdish awakening in Turkey started around 1960's and grow after 1970-80s
 
Kurdish problem is bigger,

as Greek I happened to know quite a few about them,
and if I am wrong I call upon the kurds of the forum to falsify me,
Kurds are generally under 3 major sub nationalistic divisions
and under many leaders (patriarchs if you like) that before 100 years could fight each other,
they never tried to unite and succed a unification,
and if they fail now, they start war among each other, as happens always,
the only combined actions of sub tribes are shown today,

Kurds had many opportunities to become indipendent from the times of British Empire and revolt of Arabs and liberation of Damaskos,
till the 1920's the Greek-Turkey wars,
but they decide to ally with Turks,
so Today they face either a Turkization, or Arabization, either a genocide or a destruction
Those who know History, know about the Armenians and Greeks and Neo-Turks
IT IS VERY HARD AND DIFFICULT TO ESCAPE FROM OTTOMANS, and Neo-Turks are much much smarter than Ottoman sultans,
besides Turkey has excellent diplomacy, and excellent army,

no matter a Greek i admire their raise and their progress from the 1970's and after,
 
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