E-V13 subclades in Greece

We should be careful by correlating Illyrian and Albanian. I.e. we still do not have DNA of Illyrians as we do of Myceneans. The Illyrians may very well have been different from Albanians or peoples in the Balkans in general. E1b subclades may have wondered around in the Balkans and may have been picked up by Albanians and Greeks sometime in history. Similarly, there could have been different people who carried E1b already in the Bronze Age. That said, given the spread of E1b in the Balkans/Greece/Italy and areas of Greco-Roman presence I would very much doubt that E1b has spread only recently.
 
We should be careful by correlating Illyrian and Albanian. I.e. we still do not have DNA of Illyrians as we do of Myceneans. The Illyrians may very well have been different from Albanians or peoples in the Balkans in general. E1b subclades may have wondered around in the Balkans and may have been picked up by Albanians and Greeks sometime in history. Similarly, there could have been different people who carried E1b already in the Bronze Age. That said, given the spread of E1b in the Balkans/Greece/Italy and areas of Greco-Roman presence I would very much doubt that E1b has spread only recently.

There is no reason to be careful here.....main ancient Ydna of Albanians has been discovered in Croatia.....and guess who lived over there at that time????


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There is no reason to be careful here.....main ancient Ydna of Albanians has been discovered in Croatia.....and guess who lived over there at that time????

I said that in Dalmatia among the Serbs(they come 300 years ago to Dalmatia) exist subclade which has a connection with Albania and not from eastern Herzegovina or from allegedly Serbs come to Dalmatia. Very likely they come from Albania to Dalmatia, or Kosovo, Macedonia..

It is very possible that in Croatia exist ancient E-V13 subclade since Illyrians lived in Croatia, but for now I have no information.

If it turns out that E1b originates (subclade CTS5856(4700 year) in the northern Albanian hills this is probably originally Illyrian branch(later subclades) that exist when Illyrians and Illyrian tribes are mentioned.

As far I can see Greek, Serbian and Albanian subclades of E1b are from same branche.

Serbians coming in 7 th century and they have nothing to do with E1b, while for Greeks there is a link just we do not know since. As I said, if some subclades of E1b come to Greece from Albanian hills 4,000 years ago they do not have anything with Illyrians, but if they come at the time of Illyrians or later there are Albanian origin.

For me Albanians are descendants of the Illyrians.
 
We should be careful by correlating Illyrian and Albanian. I.e. we still do not have DNA of Illyrians as we do of Myceneans. The Illyrians may very well have been different from Albanians or peoples in the Balkans in general. E1b subclades may have wondered around in the Balkans and may have been picked up by Albanians and Greeks sometime in history. Similarly, there could have been different people who carried E1b already in the Bronze Age. That said, given the spread of E1b in the Balkans/Greece/Italy and areas of Greco-Roman presence I would very much doubt that E1b has spread only recently.

Illyria is not far from Albania and we know that E1b is autochthonous in that area, certainly Croatian I2a and R1a can not be Illyrian.

If there were any migration in this area or through Italy, still is source of E1b in the hills of Albania (subclade CTS5856)
 
We should be careful by correlating Illyrian and Albanian. I.e. we still do not have DNA of Illyrians as we do of Myceneans. The Illyrians may very well have been different from Albanians or peoples in the Balkans in general. E1b subclades may have wondered around in the Balkans and may have been picked up by Albanians and Greeks sometime in history. Similarly, there could have been different people who carried E1b already in the Bronze Age. That said, given the spread of E1b in the Balkans/Greece/Italy and areas of Greco-Roman presence I would very much doubt that E1b has spread only recently.

Reputation.

Proto-Illyrians entered in the Balkans 2000 BC via Bosphorus. Today there is opinion it is possible Illyrians were Western Iranians (it is possible from area Zagros mountains and surroundings). In this picture Illyrians are designated as Iranian people.

map-showing-ancient-thracian-territory1.jpg


Zagros mountains or some other area in Western Iran or surrounding Eastern Anatolia, it is not E-V13 area.

About E-V13 generally in the Balkans and whole Europe, a lot of things are not clear today and more knowledge is needed. Fast conclusions usually lead to mistake. E-V13 was present in ancient Greeks, Thracians, Dacians and many other people in Europe. In this thread is noticed spreading E-V13 with R1b-Z2103. I give article about Dacian R1b-Z2103.

Complex analysis can give some responses. This involves research of haplogroups of many tribes in certain epochs in history including Dacians/Free Dacians, Thracians etc. Seminal paper of Lazaridis et al about Minoans and Mycenaeans is top of the science and sets high standards for future studies.
 
Greek/Illyrian and Thracian are indo-European languages. And so is modern Albanian. E-V13 is certainly not an Indo-European clade. So E-V13 is picked up in the Balkans by Indo-European peoples. It was present there for quite some time, but it is neither proto-Greek nor proto-Illyrian. Illyrians as well as Greeks could have absorbed E-V13 early on and they could have mixed with more E-V13 people later on as well.

Who is to know for sure the Albanian genetic make-up during the 10th century A.D.? Or even before that? We can only speculate. Who is to know that Albanian speakers didn't mix with E-V13 people some time in the Middle Ages?
 
Greek/Illyrian and Thracian are indo-European languages. And so is modern Albanian. E-V13 is certainly not an Indo-European clade. So E-V13 is picked up in the Balkans by Indo-European peoples. It was present there for quite some time, but it is neither proto-Greek nor proto-Illyrian. Illyrians as well as Greeks could have absorbed E-V13 early on and they could have mixed with more E-V13 people later on as well.

Who is to know for sure the Albanian genetic make-up during the 10th century A.D.? Or even before that? We can only speculate. Who is to know that Albanian speakers didn't mix with E-V13 people some time in the Middle Ages?

Nothing is proven yet....but the chances that Albanian might be what greek called Illyrian is certain at least genetically. The Albanians have the same ydna lines that has been in Ancient Illyria since 1500 bc.....


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Approximately 2,800,000 men in Ukraine belong to E-V13 haplogroup.
In Germany the number is around 4,000,000 E-V13 men.
Romania 3,000,000 men.

In Albania and Kosovo together it is 1,800,000 men which is less compared even to France (2,500,000 men).

Number of men with E-V13 in Greece is around 2,500,000 men.
 
The Albanians have the same ydna lines that has been in Ancient Illyria since 1500 bc.....


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All people in the Balkans do. Why ascribe it exclusively to Albanians?

Ok, so the people whom the Greeks referred to as Illyrians are actually the Illyrians. I see. But by that time many people in the Balkans may have carried E-V13. For all we know, there could have been Greeks tribes with plenty of E-V13 and Greek tribes with less of it. In my view, we should neither rate is as Greek, nor Illyrian. It has simply been picked up by these peoples at some point of time. Just like it has been picked up by the Romans very early on as well.
 
Approximately 2,800,000 men in Ukraine belong to E-V13 haplogroup.
In Germany the number is around 4,000,000 E-V13 men.
Romania 3,000,000 men.

In Albania and Kosovo together it is 1,800,000 men which is less compared even to France (2,500,000 men).

Number of men with E-V13 in Greece is around 2,500,000 men.

And to think that you have forgotten the Italians.
 
Nothing is proven yet....but the chances that Albanian might be what greek called Illyrian is certain at least genetically. The Albanians have the same ydna lines that has been in Ancient Illyria since 1500 bc.....


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No. And new studies as seminal paper of Lazaridis et al give another picture.
...

There are several theories. Plus if we take in consideration Albanian language which is Satem (not Centum) as Balto-Slavic, Dacian and Thracian. And Latin words taken from Romanian. Etc.

According Romanian scientists Albanians are descendants of Free Dacians (Carpi). Carpi have been evicted from their Carpathian and surrounding homeland and it is possible came to today's Albania.

And today in Romania and Moldavia E-V13 is significant. Bassarab dynasty, dynasty of Wallachian kings has mostly E-V13 descendants according study of Martinez-Kruz et al (it is interesting significant percent of descendants of this dynasty has J2b2-M241 haplogroup).

Only complex analysis can give some responses what involves research of haplogroups of many tribes including Thracian, Dacian, Free Dacian etc in certain epochs.
 
All people in the Balkans do. Why ascribe it exclusively to Albanians?

Ok, so the people whom the Greeks referred to as Illyrians are actually the Illyrians. I see. But by that time many people in the Balkans may have carried E-V13. For all we know, there could have been Greeks tribes with plenty of E-V13 and Greek tribes with less of it. In my view, we should neither rate is as Greek, nor Illyrian. It has simply been picked up by these peoples at some point of time. Just like it has been picked up by the Romans very early on as well.

We are not talking about other Balkan nations....but Albanians. So if they have the DNA of Ancient people that lived in the area called Illyria the most plausible theory is that Albanians are Illyrians......the rest are speculations that challenge the main theory....we are not talking only about ev13 but the mixture of it with r1b and j2b. Since we know now who the Mycenae and mionian were, it will not take long to figure were the Illyrian came from and their relation to modern Ballkanites....cheers neighbors Greek and Serbs the truth will set you free....


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No. And new studies as seminal paper of Lazaridis et al give another picture.
...

There are several theories. Plus if we take in consideration Albanian language which is Satem (not Centum) as Balto-Slavic, Dacian and Thracian. And Latin words taken from Romanian. Etc.

According Romanian scientists Albanians are descendants of Free Dacians (Carpi). Carpi have been evicted from their Carpathian and surrounding homeland and it is possible came to today's Albania.

And today in Romania and Moldavia E-V13 is significant. Bassarab dynasty, dynasty of Wallachian kings has mostly E-V13 descendants according study of Martinez-Kruz et al (it is interesting significant percent of descendants of this dynasty has J2b2-M241 haplogroup).

Only complex analysis can give some responses what involves research of haplogroups of many tribes including Thracian, Dacian, Free Dacian etc in certain epochs.

I like your persistence ....with Carpi and other crap....keep up the good job:)


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Nothing is proven yet....but the chances that Albanian might be what greek called Illyrian is certain at least genetically. The Albanians have the same ydna lines that has been in Ancient Illyria since 1500 bc.....


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Ahmet Davutoglu

said Different things today in Albanian Universities,

And noone dare to stop him or say No you wrong,

Come on man

mehdi Gura vs Illy Gura etc etc
said it clearly

'elhemdulillah'
 
Ahmet Davutoglu

said Different things today in Albanian Universities,

And noone dare to stop him or say No you wrong,

Come on man

mehdi Gura vs Illy Gura etc etc
said it clearly

'elhemdulillah'

....we are off topic....and I don't know what are you talking about.....but keep going maybe something good might come from that.....


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I like your persistence ....with Carpi and other crap....keep up the good job:)


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No crap, but: Karp (Carpi, Carpathian). And today there are places and toponyms in Albania which have root word Karp or similar.

Old Albanian : karpë = cliff, rock

For example Karpen in Kavajë municipality, Albania.

zPmx5u7.jpg


...
Romanian scientists created serious scientific theory.
 
No crap, but: Karp (Carpi, Carpathian). And today there are places and toponyms in Albania which have root word Karp or similar.

Old Albanian : karpë = cliff, rock

For example Karpen in Kavajë municipality, Albania.

zPmx5u7.jpg


...
Romanian scientists created serious scientific theory.

DNA evidence please.....than I will take you seriously......this is a DNA forum not a fairy tale forum.


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....we are off topic....and I don't know what are you talking about.....but keep going maybe something good might come from that.....


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nahh

I think you know,
i am sure you know,
 
We are not talking about other Balkan nations....but Albanians. So if they have the DNA of Ancient people that lived in the area called Illyria the most plausible theory is that Albanians are Illyrians......the rest are speculations that challenge the main theory....we are not talking only about ev13 but the mixture of it with r1b and j2b. Since we know now who the Mycenae and mionian were, it will not take long to figure were the Illyrian came from and their relation to modern Ballkanites....cheers neighbors Greek and Serbs the truth will set you free....
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noricum = east Austria
.
https://books.google.com.au/books?i...ITzAI#v=onepage&q=hallstatt illyrians&f=false
.
Noricum, region of Europe north of what is now Italy, roughly comprising modern central Austria and parts of Bavaria, Ger. Noricum was originally a kingdom controlled by a Celtic confederacy that dominated an earlier Illyrian population.
https://www.britannica.com/place/Noricum
...............
Its area corresponded to the greater part of modern Styria and Carinthia, Upper/Lower Austria west of Vienna, Salzburg, a part of Bavaria, and a part of Slovenia. The original population appears to have consisted of Illyrians, who after the great migration of the Gauls, became subordinate to various Celto-Ligurians tribes, chief amongst them being the Norici (so called after their capital Noreia), who were possibly identical with the Taurisci of Roman sources.[4]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noricum
..........................................
Noricum
The original population of Noricum (mostly modern day Austria) consisted of Illyrians, who after the great emigration of the Gauls became subordinate to various Celtic tribes. It is in Noricum that we first hear of almost all the Celtic invasions, and was the starting-point of the attacks upon Italia in the early Roman Republic.

............................................
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallstatt_culture
The Hallstatt culture was the predominant Western and Central European culture of Early Iron Age Europe from the 8th to 6th centuries BC, developing out of the Urnfield culture of the 12th century BC (Late Bronze Age) and followed in much of its area by the La Tène culture. It is commonly associated with Proto-Celtic and Celtic populations in the Western Hallstatt zone and with (pre-)Illyrians in the eastern Hallstatt zone.[1]

In the Bronze-age the origins of Illyrians was in Noricum - Eastern Austria
.
.
.
.No more to discuss, it is final
 

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