Latest Reich talk on ancient Dna

100 % replacement in an environment that had a history of wiping out populations is not the same as a selective replacement of the men in a land with good carrying capacity and mediterranean climate.
if you can't have normal crops in 3-5 years the population density decreases dramaticaly, even in sunny Mediterranean countries.

as a little example

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_of_1315–1317
 
You're avoiding how the male population was replaced at far larger levels than the female population.
 
Your analogies are poor. The issue here is not the population replacement. We know that can happen due to environmental causes. The issue is the extreme lopsidedness in replacement between genders.

sure that happened. but do we actually know the relative number of incoming people? what exactly are those 40%?
 
a naive question:
are these numbers concerning only the BB setllements or allover Iberia? Today Y-R1b in Iberia is between 50 and 60% in the most of the regions, not 100%. (it's true History kept on running on after LN-Chalco) - I doubt about this 100% Y-replacement whatever the geographical source(s) -
 
a naive question:
are these numbers concerning only the BB setllements or allover Iberia? Today Y-R1b in Iberia is between 50 and 60% in the most of the regions, not 100%. (it's true History kept on running on after LN-Chalco) - I doubt about this 100% Y-replacement whatever the geographical source(s) -


according to reich the populations "collapsed" into each other all over iberia. in his graph there is only r1b afterwards. at around 13:40
 
Probably let's start with the most obvious. Why humans have weapons? You dont hunt a rabbit with an axe. I think the BB question happened also East in Kura-Araxes when late KA start to show R1b-V1636 instead of the previous G2b. Steppe people didn't necessarily spread with their own Steppe cultures, but appropriate themselves previous culture, for economical or prestige reasons. Wich reinforce the fact that they were expansionnists and materialists, for not saying mercantilists/capitalists.
 
according to reich those 40% are pure "eastern" ancestry. so if the incoming people were only 50% steppe the replacement would have been massive.

We'll see when the paper comes out, Ailchu, but I heard him say "people with steppe ancestry". Plus, I don't think any one suggests these newcomers came directly from the steppes. They, like all the others, mixed as they moved through western Europe.
 
with Marcos's question it's not necessary to answer the others, to have such replacement in Iberia, let say 500000 males and 500000 females it would be necessary to massacre 500000 males including little children. Extended massacres, or genocides, are a modern case promoted by modern states, back into the history it's possible to find out lical massacres but no genocides. People like to think that what we have today was 2000 or 5000 years ago identical.
 
what men from Central Europe if Reich is the unique providing such admixture in Bronze Age Iberia, and even there are here and there BB men without it? Even Romanized Germans carried cultural traits when they take the Roman empire, can you provide even a proof of Central European cultural trait in Iberian BB?

You won't understand until you listen to the presentation and look at the graphs. They show what they show. It just remains to explain it.

These are all the ancient samples from Iberia which have been found and published.

08QE3TQ.png


dDoPqY2.png


@Ailchu,
If you go to 19:52 in the talk you'll see that the newcomers to Iberia were 50% Central European farmer. Sorry about the prior post. I didn't see that you had amended what you said.

As for the overlap, we're definitely going to have to wait for the final published paper, but it may be that it comes from areas where they hadn't yet arrived.
 
with Marcos's question it's not necessary to answer the others, to have such replacement in Iberia, let say 500000 males and 500000 females it would be necessary to massacre 500000 males including little children. Extended massacres, or genocides, are a modern case promoted by modern states, back into the history it's possible to find out lical massacres but no genocides. People like to think that what we have today was 2000 or 5000 years ago identical.

The official definition of genocide calls it removing (be it by killing or deportation or driving out) a group with the intent to do so. By definition genocide would well predate modern day Earth regardless of noble savage myths.
 
with Marcos's question it's not necessary to answer the others, to have such replacement in Iberia, let say 500000 males and 500000 females it would be necessary to massacre 500000 males including little children. Extended massacres, or genocides, are a modern case promoted by modern states, back into the history it's possible to find out lical massacres but no genocides. People like to think that what we have today was 2000 or 5000 years ago identical.

No, women probably accepted the newcomers without too much concerning, while men regrouped and tried to counter the expansion with less military experience and weapons. This is basically what happened in South America with Spanish or Portuguese Conquistadores. There is a proverb who is saying ; Women are Crying while Men are Dying. That's a very sad scenario if you think about it, more sad that it could and do happen anywhere in the world even today in some countries. Iberia such as Britain Islands must have been well known for Metal extraction and smelting, smithing in the whole Europe with millenial trade roads and systems, it attract the attention of a particular type of people, greedy, warriory, a very Conquistador scenario if you think about it. Hard men with nothing wandering to found the Eldorado.
 
I forgot that the 500000 males assassinated it would be necessary a migration of 500000 R1b from Central Europe keeping their R1a bro's appart, getting before conquer Iberia the Iberian culture, and quitting before a chunk of steppe ancestry, and so on... sorry, I like science fiction but I hate it blended in real science
 
and then the R1b samples by 1500 BC are not showing trace of stepoe ancestry by being diluted!!! Jesus, many are fresh flesh for whichever cult sect.
 
and then the R1b samples by 1500 BC are not showing trace of stepoe ancestry by being diluted!!! Jesus, many are fresh flesh for whichever cult sect.

Well it only needs 4 generations without steppe related peoples to dilute Steppe to almost none no? 1500BC is way more than 4 generations, 1000 years is like 40 generations if we assume 4 generations by centuries.
 
Interesting that pure steppe types turn up in Iberia and France. I didn't expect that. I wonder what route they've taken to get there.
 
gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr_ADN_K36expe3.htm%2B%25281%2529.png


This is my map of where my ancestors were 4,500 years ago.

Rereading the news of last year what could happen is that a dozen men arrived for each woman. Perhaps the native population suffocated, it should not be a good environment to raise children if the continued stress that would suffer the population had to revertilo in defense. Posed to fantasize in the early days could be feasible the theft of women or even the delivery of women to the enemy in exchange for two minutes of peace.

http://www.historiayarqueologia.com/2017/02/hombres-de-la-estepa-cambiaron-la.html
 
Interesting that pure steppe types turn up in Iberia and France. I didn't expect that. I wonder what route they've taken to get there.

Where are you seeing that, Markod?
 

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