Genetic and Cultural Differences between Jews and Greeks

Mycenaean I9033 vs Natufian I1072

No where do they overlap.

Jovialis said:

Mycenaean I9033 vs Natufian I1072

No where do they overlap.

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My Super kit vs Natufian I1072,

No where do we overlap either:

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ABA_I2683 vs Natufian_I1072

The only place they overlap is the Levant, which is well documented. Due to Anatolian-CHG people descending into the region in both the ChL, and LBA.

Not even Levant_N overlaps with Natufian. Natufian is Epipaleolithic. Lots of things changed afterwards. Interestingly, though, Ancient Egyptians and modern (and presumably ancient too) Arabians remained mostly Natufian, and the West Eurasian admixtures in Ethiopians and Somalis today seems to be almost entirely Natufian, too.

Ygorcs said:

Not even Levant_N overlaps with Natufian. Natufian is Epipaleolithic. Lots of things changed afterwards. Interestingly, though, Ancient Egyptians and modern (and presumably ancient too) Arabians remained mostly Natufian, and the West Eurasian admixtures in Ethiopians and Somalis today seems to be almost entirely Natufian, too.

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The post-Roman Egypt paper models Levant_N as half Natufian, half Anatolian_N:

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I was trying to figure out in Vahaduo, out of curiosity, the possible richest people in the world in Natufian-like ancestry. Apparently they are the Mahra from Yemen, with ~76%. Saudis would get almost the same: ~73%.



"The Mahri language of Southern Arabian is one of the few indigenous, non-Arabic languages remaining on the Arabian Peninsula, and since Mahri is a non-written language, poetry in the Mahri language is a strictly oral art form." https://asuevents.asu.edu/content/i...-your-own-adventure-digital-exploration-mahri

interesting,thanks.

Regio X said:

I was trying to figure out in Vahaduo, out of curiosity, the possible richest people in the world in Natufian-like ancestry. Apparently they are the Mahra from Yemen, with ~76%. Saudis would get almost the same: ~73%.

"The Mahri language of Southern Arabian is one of the few indigenous, non-Arabic languages remaining on the Arabian Peninsula, and since Mahri is a non-written language, poetry in the Mahri language is a strictly oral art form." https://asuevents.asu.edu/content/i...-your-own-adventure-digital-exploration-mahri

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:cool-v:
How much natufian -like admixture do
yemenite jews
Score? ( as they mixed with the arabian tribes of yemen during the last 1400 years)

kingjohn said:

:cool-v:
How much natufian -like admixture do
yemenite jews
Score? ( as they mixed with the arabian tribes of yemen during the last 1400 years)

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Perhaps something like ~10 points less, but this is one model. The score may vary a bit from model to model (scaled, unscaled, penalty, no penalty...).

Regio X said:

I was trying to figure out in Vahaduo, out of curiosity, the possible richest people in the world in Natufian-like ancestry. Apparently they are the Mahra from Yemen, with ~76%. Saudis would get almost the same: ~73%.

"The Mahri language of Southern Arabian is one of the few indigenous, non-Arabic languages remaining on the Arabian Peninsula, and since Mahri is a non-written language, poetry in the Mahri language is a strictly oral art form." https://asuevents.asu.edu/content/i...-your-own-adventure-digital-exploration-mahri

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Yes, indeed. They are also one of those things that bother Afrocentrics so much, because they have little or no African ancestry and yet they are pretty dark-skinned, but with very Caucasoid features... and, you know, the aDNA samples from Egypt show closest genetic affinity to modern Yemenites, including the Mahri people. That, of course, is a big problem for them to tackle, because it suggests that even if Ancient Egyptians were really as brown-skinned as the MALES as portrayed in their ancient artwork, we might be seeing just a Mahri-like people, that wouldn't have to imply any major black indigenous African input that was "diluted" in the last 2,000-2,500 years.

IMO the Eurasian people that spread herding and cereal harvesting and later cultivation to Northeast Africa and thence to East Africa were much more Natufian-like than Levant_N-like or Levant_BA-like. Indeed, all my models of heavily Eurasian-shifted East Africans pick a lot more (or even solely) Natufian than ANF, CHG or Iran_N.

Interestingly, some people think the Mahri look South Asian. I don't know, to me they look just like darker-skinned Southwest Asians:

Jovialis said:

The post-Roman Egypt paper models Levant_N as half Natufian, half Anatolian_N:

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That's also basically what I get in G25 models: ~50-60% ANF + ~40-50% Natufian. So a heavy dilution of Natufian ancestry already happened between the Epipaleolithic and the Early Neolithic... or it might also be (at least partly) that some still unsampled Levantine people had much less North African (Taforalt-like) ancestry than the typical Natufians, and they also expanded together with the Natufians when agriculture was fully developed.

Ygorcs said:

Yes, indeed. They are also one of those things that bother Afrocentrics so much, because they have little or no African ancestry and yet they are pretty dark-skinned, but with very Caucasoid features... and, you know, the aDNA samples from Egypt show closest genetic affinity to modern Yemenites, including the Mahri people. That, of course, is a big problem for them to tackle, because it suggests that even if Ancient Egyptians were really as brown-skinned as the MALES as portrayed in their ancient artwork, we might be seeing just a Mahri-like people, that wouldn't have to imply any major black indigenous African input that was "diluted" in the last 2,000-2,500 years.
IMO the Eurasian people that spread herding and cereal harvesting and later cultivation to Northeast Africa and thence to East Africa were much more Natufian-like than Levant_N-like or Levant_BA-like. Indeed, all my models of heavily Eurasian-shifted East Africans pick a lot more (or even solely) Natufian than ANF, CHG or Iran_N.
Interestingly, some people think the Mahri look South Asian. I don't know, to me they look just like darker-skinned Southwest Asians:

Click to expand...

Good paper to read
On autosomal of yemenites
In different yemen provinces
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/749341v1
Modern yemenites have significant african admixture 15-20% except one group there....
But 80% of there total genome can still be modeled as lebanese bronze age :cool-v:

Ygorcs said:

That's also basically what I get in G25 models: ~50-60% ANF + ~40-50% Natufian. So a heavy dilution of Natufian ancestry already happened between the Epipaleolithic and the Early Neolithic... or it might also be (at least partly) that some still unsampled Levantine people had much less North African (Taforalt-like) ancestry than the typical Natufians, and they also expanded together with the Natufians when agriculture was fully developed.

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Precisely. Lazaridis et al. got a very good p-value modeling Levant PPNB as 59.1% Natufian and 40.9% Dzudzuana, at the same time Dzudzuana and ANF were pretty similar. So...

@Kingjohn
Notice that Natufian contribution among Yemenites may vary. We were talking specifically about Mahri, who seem to have more of it compared to other Yemenites.

Regio X said:

I was trying to figure out in Vahaduo, out of curiosity, the possible richest people in the world in Natufian-like ancestry. Apparently they are the Mahra from Yemen, with ~76%. Saudis would get almost the same: ~73%.

"The Mahri language of Southern Arabian is one of the few indigenous, non-Arabic languages remaining on the Arabian Peninsula, and since Mahri is a non-written language, poetry in the Mahri language is a strictly oral art form." https://asuevents.asu.edu/content/i...-your-own-adventure-digital-exploration-mahri

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I don't know if someone of you guys have been to Arab Gulf countries(UAE etc.). But both boys look typical Arab(Peninsula) to me. Syrians and Lebanese have a very different look.

Ygorcs said:

Yes, indeed. They are also one of those things that bother Afrocentrics so much, because they have little or no African ancestry and yet they are pretty dark-skinned, but with very Caucasoid features... and, you know, the aDNA samples from Egypt show closest genetic affinity to modern Yemenites, including the Mahri people. That, of course, is a big problem for them to tackle, because it suggests that even if Ancient Egyptians were really as brown-skinned as the MALES as portrayed in their ancient artwork, we might be seeing just a Mahri-like people, that wouldn't have to imply any major black indigenous African input that was "diluted" in the last 2,000-2,500 years.

IMO the Eurasian people that spread herding and cereal harvesting and later cultivation to Northeast Africa and thence to East Africa were much more Natufian-like than Levant_N-like or Levant_BA-like. Indeed, all my models of heavily Eurasian-shifted East Africans pick a lot more (or even solely) Natufian than ANF, CHG or Iran_N.

Interestingly, some people think the Mahri look South Asian. I don't know, to me they look just like darker-skinned Southwest Asians:

Click to expand...

Funny thing is they're probably African admixed. So true Natufians were probably even more Caucasoid looking and perhaps lighter.

To me they look like horners
And i know there genetic is different from yemenites...

P.s
Natufians were dark skin
And they might showed some african trait
full lips etc.....
They were partly y haplogroup E....

ratchet_fan said:

Funny thing is they're probably African admixed. So true Natufians were probably even more Caucasoid looking and perhaps lighter.

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I haven't detected ancient SSA admix in Mahri (apparently neither Ygorcs). I used West and East SSAs.

Regio X said:

I haven't detected ancient SSA admix in Mahri (apparently neither Ygorcs). I used West and East SSAs.

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I stand corrected.

kingjohn said:

To me they look like horners
And i know there genetic is different from yemenites...
P.s
Natufians were dark skin
And they might showed some african trait
full lips etc.....
They were partly y haplogroup E....

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I wasn't aware the there was SSA in Natufians. Weren't they entirely ydna E? I associate ydna E with Ancient North Africans who admixed into Natufians and SSA not vice versa.

ratchet_fan said:

I wasn't aware the there was SSA in Natufians. Weren't they entirely ydna E? I associate ydna E with Ancient North Africans who admixed into Natufians and SSA not vice versa.

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Abstract:
Yemen is a vast region with substantial cultural and geographic diversity, but we found little genetic structure correlating with geography among the Yemenis – probably reflecting continuous movement of people between the regions. African ancestry from admixture in the past 800 years is widespread in Yemen and is the main contributor to the country’s limited genetic structure, with some individuals in Hudayda and Hadramout having up to 20% of their genetic ancestry from Africa. In contrast, individuals from Maarib appear to have been genetically isolated from the African gene flow and thus have genomes likely to reflect Yemen’s ancestry before the admixture.

This ancestry was comparable to the ancestry present during the Bronze Age in the distant Northern regions of the Near East.

After the Bronze Age, the South and North of the Near East therefore followed different genetic trajectories: in the North the Levantines admixed with a Eurasian population carrying steppe ancestry whose impact never reached as far south as the Yemen, where people instead admixed with Africans leading to the genetic structure observed in the Near East today.

We just dont know how natufians looked
They might have been more rubst than modern
Yemenites we saw in those pictures
In the link to the paper i posted above people should have a look:

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/749341v1
Yememites do have sub -sharan at least most
Of them except mahra who don't have sub sharan....
At least thats the model in paper most yemen provinces :
80% lebanese zidon bronze age+ african