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this thread is closely related to thread Veneti
Veneti
as it is likely that Veneti and Sarmatians were very closely related tribes - something like Croats and Serbs today...
clusterisation of samples
from "Geostatistical inference of main Y-STR-haplotype groups in Europe"
Amalia Diaz-Lacavaa, Maja Waliera, Sascha Willuweitb, Thomas F. Wienkera, Rolf Fimmersa, Max P. Baura, and Lutz Roewerb
cluster 18 - Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Serbia, Romania, Western and Eastern Hungary, and Central Ukraine
cluster 18 groups with cluster 10 (not explicitly mentioned in text and hard to say what is it from map - colour on map could be either Moldavia with areas next to Black sea in east Romania and Bulgaria, or central-west Anatolia or part of Caucasus)
than those 2 clusters group with clusters 13 (Albania) and 5 (central Anatolia)
to me this seems to be in proof of Sarmatian-Veneti tribes originating from Paphlagonia, and Albanians as well originating from Asia minor perhaps via genetical origin from Dardani tribe...
in fact I wonder whether name Sarmatians is derived from earlier Cimmerians
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Map_of_Assyria.png
in fact, Eneti and Cimmerians are not the same nation, but I think they were very very closely related... perhaps Eneti are branch of Cimmerians, same as Sarmatian Venedi are part of Sarmatians and later Slavic Anti as likely originating from Sarmatians..
in fact it is not difficult to imagine Cimmerians spreading from Asia minor to east and branch of them going north passing through Caucasus and comming up on northern shore of Black sea... as it might be deduced from pattern of haplogroup I distribution in Asia
today haplogroup I in Asia peaks in Zazas (Dimilis) in Asia minor... and in area called Daylami south of Caspian lake (area north of Teheran)..
I also wonder whether words Dalmatia (where is highest frequency of haplogrpoup I2a2) and Daylamites (islands of I in north Iran and Asia minor) have same root...
Here I wonder whether words Shabaki and Srbi have common origin...
in fact, it we follow further spread of I in the Asia we get to Sarbans who are now one of the Pashtun tribes... however, unlike other Pastuns they seems to carry lot of I haplogroup
which is illustrated by observing perfect match between spread of I haplogroup and Sarbans
In fact, I would say that Cimmerians gave Zazaki, Shabaki, Sarbans, Sarmatians and among them Serbi in Asian Sarmatia in Caucasus
in fact, we can see that I have reached very far on east - deep in what is now north-west China
who were those people?
Veneti
as it is likely that Veneti and Sarmatians were very closely related tribes - something like Croats and Serbs today...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SarmatiansThe Sarmatians (Latin Sarmatæ or Sauromatæ, Greek Σαρμάται, Σαυρομάται) were an Iranian people of Classical Antiquity, flourishing from about the 5th century BC to the 4th century AD.[1][2]
Their territory was known as Sarmatia to Greco-Roman ethnographers, corresponding to the western part of greater Scythia (modern Southern Russia, Ukraine, and the eastern Balkans). At their greatest reported extent, around 100 BC, these tribes ranged from the Vistula River to the mouth of the Danube and eastward to the Volga, bordering the shores of the Black and Caspian seas as well as the Caucasus to the south.[3]
clusterisation of samples
from "Geostatistical inference of main Y-STR-haplotype groups in Europe"
Amalia Diaz-Lacavaa, Maja Waliera, Sascha Willuweitb, Thomas F. Wienkera, Rolf Fimmersa, Max P. Baura, and Lutz Roewerb
In Southeastern Central Europe and the Balkans several clusters were alternatively predominant. Two circumscribed and densely sampled areas stood out from the surroundings: central Anatolia (cluster 5) and central Hungary (cluster 14). It is worth mentioning that while a genetic differentiation of central Anatolia is in accordance with previous studies [17] and [18], a reliable characterization of the not sampled surrounding areas may require further evaluation. Two clusters were assigned to large areas of the Balkan Peninsula: (1) Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Serbia, Romania, Western and Eastern Hungary, and Central Ukraine: cluster 18; (2) continental Greece, Bulgaria, and Macedonia: cluster 2. Cluster 13 was assigned to Albania and to the western area of the Balkans and cluster 11 to the Caucasus.
cluster 18 - Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Serbia, Romania, Western and Eastern Hungary, and Central Ukraine
cluster 18 groups with cluster 10 (not explicitly mentioned in text and hard to say what is it from map - colour on map could be either Moldavia with areas next to Black sea in east Romania and Bulgaria, or central-west Anatolia or part of Caucasus)
than those 2 clusters group with clusters 13 (Albania) and 5 (central Anatolia)
to me this seems to be in proof of Sarmatian-Veneti tribes originating from Paphlagonia, and Albanians as well originating from Asia minor perhaps via genetical origin from Dardani tribe...
in fact I wonder whether name Sarmatians is derived from earlier Cimmerians
in fact, Eneti and Cimmerians are not the same nation, but I think they were very very closely related... perhaps Eneti are branch of Cimmerians, same as Sarmatian Venedi are part of Sarmatians and later Slavic Anti as likely originating from Sarmatians..
in fact it is not difficult to imagine Cimmerians spreading from Asia minor to east and branch of them going north passing through Caucasus and comming up on northern shore of Black sea... as it might be deduced from pattern of haplogroup I distribution in Asia
today haplogroup I in Asia peaks in Zazas (Dimilis) in Asia minor... and in area called Daylami south of Caspian lake (area north of Teheran)..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZazasLinguistic studies shows that the Zazas may have immigrated to their modern-day homeland from the southern shores of the Caspian Sea. Some Zazas use the word Dimli (Daylami) to describe their ethnic identity. The word Dimli (Daylami) also describes a region of Gilan Province in today’s Iran. Some linguists connect the word Dimli with the Daylamites in the Alborz Mountains near the shores of Caspian Sea in Iran and believe that the Zaza have migrated from Daylam towards the west. Today, Iranian languages are still spoken in southern regions of Caspian Sea (also called the Caspian languages), including Sangsarī, Māzandarānī, Tātī (Herzendī), Semnānī, Tāleshī, and they are grammatically and lexically very close to Zazaki; this supports the argument that Zazas immigrated to eastern Anatolia from southern regions of Caspian Sea.[8] Zazas also live in a region close to the Kurds, who are also another Iranic ethnic group. But, historic sources such as the Zoroastrian holy book, Bundahishn, places the Dilaman (Dimila/Zaza) homeland in the headwaters of the Tigris[citation needed], as it is today. This points to that the Dimila/Zaza migrated to the Caspian sea and not the other way around[original research?].
I also wonder whether words Dalmatia (where is highest frequency of haplogrpoup I2a2) and Daylamites (islands of I in north Iran and Asia minor) have same root...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zazaki_languageThe Zazaki language shows similarities with (Hewrami or Gorani), Shabaki and Bajelani. Gorani, Bajelani, and Shabaki languages are spoken around Iran-Iraq border; however, it is believed that they are also immigrated from Northern Iran to their present homelands. These languages are sometimes put together in the Zaza-Gorani language group.
Here I wonder whether words Shabaki and Srbi have common origin...
in fact, it we follow further spread of I in the Asia we get to Sarbans who are now one of the Pashtun tribes... however, unlike other Pastuns they seems to carry lot of I haplogroup
which is illustrated by observing perfect match between spread of I haplogroup and Sarbans
In fact, I would say that Cimmerians gave Zazaki, Shabaki, Sarbans, Sarmatians and among them Serbi in Asian Sarmatia in Caucasus
in fact, we can see that I have reached very far on east - deep in what is now north-west China
who were those people?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SeresSeres (Gr. Σῆρες, Lat. Sērēs) was the ancient Greek and Roman name for the inhabitants of eastern Central Asia, but could also extend to a number of other Asian people in a wide arc from China to India.[1] It meant "of silk," or people of the "land where silk comes from." The country of the Seres was Serica.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SeresPliny also reports a curious description of the Seres made by an embassy from Taprobane to Emperor Claudius, suggesting they may be referring to the ancient Caucasian populations of the Tarim Basin, such as the Tocharians:
"They also informed us that the side of their island (Taprobane) which lies opposite to India is ten thousand stadia in length, and runs in a south-easterly direction--that beyond the Emodian Mountains (Himalayas) they look towards the Serve (Seres), whose acquaintance they had also made in the pursuits of commerce; .." (Pliny the Elder, The Natural History, Chap XXIV "Taprobane")
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SericaSerica, the land of the Seres, was the name by which the Greco-Romans referred to a country in Central Asia.
Ancient Mediterranean knowledge of this nation was indistinct and distorted by fables and myths. Ptolemy and Pliny the Elder present more precise descriptions. Serica was described by Ptolemy as bordering "Scythia beyond the Imaum mountains (Tian Shan)" on the West, "Terra Incognita" to the North-East, the "Sinae" or Chinese to the East and "India" to the South. This would correspond with modern Xinjiang province in North-Western China.
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