Leak: Early Iranian and Turksih Farmers were Genetically Distinct

Papua's most likely.
You would need to be more specific about a tribe. Some tribes are in a transition period, transition from hunting to agriculture. Women do crops and men still hunt. This is local thing though, nothing to do with European Agriculture and transfer of farming knowledge.



Harvesting wild cereals. Pretty much well established. The size of the grains is a good indication.
I know, farming started from harvesting of wild varieties first and wheat becoming the main staple of diet, then harvesting with specific for it tools, like a sickle. In this case they also needed to do the thrashing of wheat, and storage. Last peace of the puzzle, the planting of crops, came much later.




Pigs weren't fed overproduction, they were herded in woods: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pannage
That is how Ertebolla and its cousins kept pigs.
Sure, you can always send kids to the forest to feed pigs, but it is not efficient way to produce the bacon. Also you are risking of losing the pig to the wolves and cougars, and pig is burning fat walking miles daily.

My theory: The reason why in Europe farmers always had farmers DNA has to do with the fact that once you farm, you own land. And with owning land comes the issue of inheritance. And that makes marriage a political question. So once you start farming your daughters become an asset in your political game. So if HGs settle near ENFs they will inevitably intermarry. The "apartheid" of farmers and HG's in Europe was only due to the fact that HGs and their later neolithic offspring didn't own land.
.
It explains situation back then. What about now why Natives to Canada, Australia have land and can do agriculture, or at least herding? How hard is for a hunter to be a herder?
Looks like extremly hard.
 
"Kurd" refers to language not genes.
Are you sure? I mean, I'm more fluent in Russian than in my native Kurdish language. Does this fact makes me ethnic Russian, of course not.

I've got only a Dutch nationality and I'm also fluent in Dutch. Does this fact makes me ethnic Dutch or even ethnic West European? Of course not.


Same with Kurdish. If someone (non-ethnic Kurd) speaks Kurdish fluently, that doesn't make him/her ethnic Kurd. Maybe one day when Kurdistan will be independent it will be possible to get a Kurdish 'nationality', and some of our neighbours will have a Kurdish nationality et. but still they will not be 'ethnic' Kurds. but that's a different topic..


"Kurd" is an ethnolinguistic term and refers to Kurdish people, race etc.
 
@Goga,

How can a population in the past be the same ethnicity as one today if it didn't speak the same language? Language isn't all the determines ethnicity but it is very important.

If you have no Kurdish language you have no Kurds. In 4000 BC there was no Kurdish language and no Kurds. There may have been people with a similar genetic makeup but that doesn't make them proto-Kurds.
 
Of course you have got the point! People evolve all the time. Modern people are very different to ancient people. If we were not evolving, we would still be monkeys and before that some other less intelligent animals. Evolution is part of our existence. I do agree with you.

Kurds of today are not the same as Kurds 4000 years ago. Kurds of today have also some other people (not native to Zagros) in their DNA.
Are Italians the same as the Romans of 2000 years ago? Not really, but still, the Italians are the descendants of the ancient mighty Romans.


Why I do consider those ancient people in the Zagros mountains as proto-Kurds? Very simple. When we look at the region, the only people who are native to that region are the modern Kurds. It is the place where the Kurdish race was born. It is the place (Kurdistan Zagros Mountains) that has been continuously populated by Kurdish ancestors, non-stop, by thousands of years. People come and go, but that place, the mountains never move. Those ancient people who lived in the Zagros Mountains and stayed in the Zagros Mountains became Kurds.

Zagros Mountains were their NATIVE homeland. And Zagros Mountains are still the NATIVE homeland of the Kurds. Kurds are not a 'bastard' race. We are ancient people, with our ancient deep roots. We have got our own roots and we know where we are from and the most important we are proud of it.



Kurdish saying: no friends but our beloved Zagros Mountains!



In 4000 BC people of Zagros Mountains spoke a language that was ancestral to modern Kurdish...
 
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Kurds as a ethnicity didn't existed back than. During Bronze Age-Iron Age populations/people existed who are ancestral to nowadays Kurds.
 
Kurds are not only an ethnolinguistic group of people, but Kurds (Ezdi) are actually also an ethnoreligious group. The native Kurdish religion dates back to the times of the Sumerians, the Ubaid culture. (just google 'Sinjar' and 'Ubaid', and you will find many hits)

Ubaid culture had links with the Leyla-Tepe and the Iranian Plateau/Zagros Mountains in general.

So, like Sumerians told about their divine roots from Annunaki/Nephilim, Kurdish Aryan race is also related to that of the ancient Sumerians.

So, Kurdish 'star' race goes back at the times of the Sumerians, at least to the times of the Ubaid culture.

And since we know that Sumerian Ubaid civilization was related to Leyla-Tepe, we have to acknowledge that those Sumerian Ubaid folks were also from the Iranian Plateau/Zagros mountains and belonged to the same race as those natives of Kurdistan Zagros Mountains.



Kurdish race existed before the so called Bronze Age. Ubaid period existed 2000 years before the Bronze Age, at least 5500 BC.



Sumerians Ubaid Nephilim. My NATIVE religion, the religion of Shefredin (for layman the Yezidism) is closely related to the Sumerian mythology. We also believe in 'angels' (Annunakï) who came down on earth.



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reptiles40_03.jpg
 
Goga, if Kurds are not bastard race, which Races are?
Original races that are not living on their native URHEMAT.


Kurds are not a 'bastard' race because they are inhabitating their ancestral homeland / URHEIMAT non-stop for thousands of years.


We are not saying we are from China, or we are from Levant/Arabia, or that we are from Africa, or that we are from Europe, or that we are from the EurAsian Steppes (+ Central Asia).

Kurds are saying that Kurds are from Kurdistan/Zagros Mountains and nowhere else. Kurdish and Kurdish native religion are native to their homeland. This is the highest form of having deep, deep ancient roots. Kurds are very ancient people, with very, very ancient history.


People who have a very ancient ethnic history/language/religion native to their homeland and never moved from their homeland, belong to a very noble (highest form) race.




I can come directly with examples, but I don't want to insult any other races. But if you read it carefully I gave you an answer to your question.
 
I can use this example without insulting any races. Let say that there's an 'American' race. It is not 'yet' a race, but let say it is a race.

Then we can consider 'imaginative' American race as a bastard race. Why? Because most folks in America don't even know where they are from, they don't even know who they are. Who their parents/ancestors are. And the roots of the most 'rootless' people in America lies outside America (be it in Europe, Africa and Asia).

English or Spanish are not NATIVE to America.
 
I am from bastard race then :(
My Finno-ugric ancestors arrived to Latvia 1000-500 bce.
My Baltic ancestors only AD.

And then they... mixed....

I wish I was a Kurd!
 
I can use this example without insulting any races. Let say that there's an 'American' race. It is not 'yet' a race, but let say it is a race.

Then we can consider 'imaginative' American race as a bastard race. Why? Because most folks in America don't even know where they are from, they don't even know who they are. Who their parents/ancestors are. And the roots of the most 'rootless' people in America lies outside America (be it in Europe, Africa and Asia).

English or Spanish are not NATIVE to America.

Firstly I think its more apt to use mixed race rather then 'bastard' race.
Secondly the idea of a pure race could be genetically disastrous according to many genealogists and if it goes long enough can destroy a whole people slowly but surely. Its not something desirable in Nature as a whole.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inbreeding
 
Firstly I think its more apt to use mixed race rather then 'bastard' race.
Secondly the idea of a pure race could be genetically disastrous according to many genealogists and if it goes long enough can destroy a whole people slowly but surely. Its not something desirable in Nature as a whole.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inbreeding
Nothing wrong with a little bit race mixing.

It is different from a 'bastard' race. A bastard race is when you don't know who you are and where you (or some of your parent/ancestors ) are from.


A little bit race mixing is very healthy when a 'native' receiver of some new genes (a minor gene flow) doesn't leave (abandon) it's native ancestral homeland and doesn't forget it's own roots and language.




It's disgusting and a big shame when a race forgets it's own language and it's own roots!
 
A little bit race mixing is very healthy when a 'native' receiver of some new genes (a minor gene flow) doesn't leave (abandon) it's native ancestral homeland and doesn't forget it's own roots and language.
How is life in Nederlands? :)
 
I am from bastard race then :(
My Finno-ugric ancestors arrived to Latvia 1000-500 bce.
My Baltic ancestors only AD.

And then they... mixed....

I wish I was a Kurd!
???

How native is Latvian to Latvia? As far as I know Latvian is only spoken in Latvia. At least Latvian is not spoke as native language outside Latvia.


Take Turkish, or Arabic. Turkish is NOT native to West Asia. It is native to the Altai region. Turkic is spoken by native people of the Altai region. Those Turks (Turkish speakers) who live in their ancestral native homeland Altai are not a bastard race. While people in Turkey, who were once Greeks, Armenians, Kurds, Georgians, Slavs etc. and forgot their language and started to speak Turkic language are lost people. They forgot their ancestors, while they speak foreign language as their native language.


Same with the Arabs. Arabic is actually NATIVE to Yemen. Those who speak Arabic outside the Arabian urheimat in Arabia/Yemen, forgot who their non-Arab ancestors/daddies were, who were natives in let say the Levant. Before the Arabs, Levant was not Arabian. But people forgot their roots and started to consider themselves Arabs. same with the so called Arabs in Northern Africa. etc.



When a child doesn't know who his daddy is or when a father denies his child, that child is a bastard child..


This is a big shame and all people on this planet should be protected against this GENOCIDAL process.
 
How is life in Nederlands? :)
safe... but I'm in diaspora...

After Kurdistan is freed and safe too without Muslim aggression/threat in my native homeland, someday, I'll go back to my ancestral homeland. Like Jews in diaspora went back to Israel. My ancestors left Kurdistan more than 100 years ago. 100 years ago my great great grandfather was the only survivor of his whole family. My ancestors fled Kurdistan 100 years ago not to be assimilated and to safe our race/identity. They did everything to stay pure and to stay close to our ancestors.


It's now my duty and duty of my descendants to stay pure and respect our ancestors..
 
Btw, it is because of countries like the Nederlands, my ancestral Kurdistan is NOT a safe country for me.

They should stop protecting our enemies, like they should stop protecting the Turks & Arabs. And helping our enemies in killing the Kurds.


Countries like the Nederlands are interested in making blood money with helping to kill innocent people, women, children.


Let me give an exapmle, countries like the Netherlands started a war in Syria only to steal money/oil/wealth from that region. So, those coutnries shouldn't wine when people from where the western countries created chaos, migrate into the countries like Holland.


It is because of Holland, Germany, France, US etc. there are wars in the Middle East. NEVER forget that.


What are these OIL companies doing in Kurdistan???? To HELL with them!


Austria
OMV

Canada
Groundstar Resources
Niko Resources
Shamaran Petroleum
Talisman Energy
Vast Exploration
WesternZagros

Norway
DNO International

United Kingdom
Afren
Gulf Keystone Petroleum
Perenco
Sterling Energy

United States
Aspect Energy
Chevron
Hess
Hunt Petroleum
Murphy Oil Corporation


http://www.iraq-businessnews.com/list-of-international-oil-companies-in-iraqi-kurdistan/



That's why I hate capitalism, liberalism, imperialism. Different faces of the same coin. BECAUSE of capitalism, liberalism, imperialism I must to live in diaspora now!
 
Kurds are not only an ethnolinguistic group of people, but Kurds (Ezdi) are actually also an ethnoreligious group. The native Kurdish religion dates back to the times of the Sumerians, the Ubaid culture. (just google 'Sinjar' and 'Ubaid', and you will find many hits)

That's an opinion not fact.
 
That's an opinion not fact.
What is an opinion?

That Ezdi Kurds are an ethnoreligious group? I mean of course it is, because it is exclusively Iranid Ezdi religion. Outsiders can never become part of this religion. Ezdi religion doesn't accept people who want also to follow this religion. To be Ezdi, BOTH of you parents have to be Ezdi. This is a fact and one of the most important pillars of our religion. According to our religion mixing is a huge SIN!

Ezdi have 2 religious centers of their faith. 1 is in Lalish and the 2nd one is in Shengal Mountains (Sinjar). Shengal Mountains (Sinjar) have always been populated by the Ezdi Kurds. Also a fact. Shengal is one the most holy lands of the Ezdi Kurds. 'Shengal' is native Kurdish name, while Arabs and other Semites are using the name 'Sinjar'.


About Northern Shengal (Sinjar), north of the Mountains.

" The wall and other evidence at a huge mound in northeastern Syria known as Tell Hamoukar indicate a complex government dating back at least 6,000 years. It has been known for some time that the Sinjar valley belonged to the Northern Ubaid culture. In the Sinjar plain, where Tell Hamoukar is located, civilizations are known to have existed many centuries earlier (Hassuna, Halaf, Ubaid). More than 200 sites are known. "

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iraq/sinjar.htm


https://books.google.nl/books?id=60...CJkQ6AEIHzAA#v=onepage&q=ubaid sinjar&f=false

https://books.google.nl/books?id=pM...CJkQ6AEIMTAD#v=onepage&q=ubaid sinjar&f=false

etc.


There are thousands links between the Sumerian Mythology and the faith of Shefredin (for layman it is the Yezidism).


Btw, Muslims are trying to destroy Shengal (Sinjar), because Muslims are jealous of the history/roots of the Ezdi Kurds.
 
I don't understand the rough history Kurds have, oppression you guys face, and your patriotism but none of that justifies twisting history.

Original races that are not living on their native URHEMAT.


Kurds are not a 'bastard' race because they are inhabitating their ancestral homeland / URHEIMAT non-stop for thousands of years.

We can't measure how long an ethnicity has lived on their land because humans have only been writing on paper for a couple thousand years in most parts of the world or even less. 99.9% of human history is a mystery. All we have to know what happened in 99.9% of human history is old remains underground, and those remains can't tell us what ethnicity an ancient people belonged to.

Writing from 3,000 years ago confirms Kurdish language evolved from languages that existed in Kurdistan 3,000 years ago, but there's nothing to prove or disprove the Kurdish language was in that region before 3,000 years ago.

It's unlikely that many modern ethnicities have a single ancient ancestor. Everyone to some extent is mixed. Kurds didn't suddenly appear in Mespotamia. Kurds are a mixture of several differnt peoples who had at somepoint migrated from somewhere else into Mesoptamia. The Kurdish language has a single source, but Kurdish ancestry/genes don't have a single source. We understand European genetics because of ancient DNA and this is the case for Europeans. Italians aren't descended of a single ancestors who migrated to Italy at a certain date. Italians are a mixture of many differnt people who arrived in Italy in differnt time periods, even some who arrived in the Middle Ages.

So in my opinion it is likely the Kurdish ethnicity didn't form till the last 3,000 years and the Kurdish genetic(and genetic makeup of their closely related neighbors) didn't form till the last 5,000 years. In the last many 100s of years and probably 1,000s of years Kurds may have stayed pure and distinct, but when you go back far enough they are mixed.


People who have a very ancient ethnic history/language/religion native to their homeland and never moved from their homeland, belong to a very noble (highest form) race.

Kurds are native to Iran/Iraq area or whatever(I don't know the name), that's cool. You have cultural connections going back even 1,000s of years cool. Yeah that's your land, but you can't claim that Kurd's ancestors have always been there. Because there's been writing(very little writing) in your region continuously for 5,000 years we have a better historical record of the languages-ethnciies who have lived there than anywhere else. And we can see that the Kurdish language hasn't always been there. Sumerian and then Semetic languages where there before Iranian languages.

At some-point between 5,000 and 3,000 years ago Iranian language emerged/migrated in/to your region, or they just happened to not know how to write 5,000 years ago. In all likely hood Iranian languages did arrive ultimately from North Eurasian Bronze age folk like Andronovo. This isn't a bad thing. Lots of your ancestry is probably from pre-Iranian(Like Sumerians) and the newcomers who spoke Iranian languages.
 
Sumerian and then Semetic languages where there before Iranian languages.

At some-point between 5,000 and 3,000 years ago Iranian language emerged/migrated in/to your region, or they just happened to not know how to write 5,000 years ago. In all likely hood Iranian languages did arrive ultimately from North Eurasian Bronze age folk like Andronovo. This isn't a bad thing. Lots of your ancestry is probably from pre-Iranian(Like Sumerians) and the newcomers who spoke Iranian languages.
No way! Sumerian predate any Indo-Iranian languages by thousands of years. And secondly, Semitic was never spoken in the Kurdistan Zagros Mountains and the Iranian Plateau. That's impossible! Semitic langauges are native to Levant & Arabia and came into the Mesopotamia with the Semitic Akkadians and their Semitic relatives.


Sumerians predate the Semites by thousands of years.


At the times of Leyla-Tepe, the Semites didn't even exist!


Sumerians also predate the Andronovo monkeys by thousands of years.


Indo-Iranian can't be from Andronovo, since proto-Indo-Iranian had an ergativity construction in it. While native languages in Central Asia (and even in the Western Steppes) don't have any ergativity. Turkic, Uralic, Finnic and even LATE Yamnaya-PIE languages didn't have any ergativity.

While Indo-Iranian (modern Kurdish, Indic etc.) had (have) ergativity. So the Indo-Iranian language didn't evolve in the Steppes or in Central Asia, but in WEST Asia! Because there is also an ergativity in the Caucasian languages.



Ergativity in the region is only NATIVE to Indo-Iranian and Caucasian languages and both groups belong as we know now to ancient CHG folks. With other words ancient Indo-Iranian was closely connected to the ancient CHG folks on the Iranian Plateau/Zagros Mountains!


+ Ancient native Iranian religions are related to Sumerians (ancient Mesopotamia) and the Iranian Palateau/Zagros Mountains (Leyla-Tepe).


Even according to the ancient Zoroastrian East Iranian texts, Aryans were NATIVE to the Iranian Plateau. Those texts never mentioned places outside the Iranian Plateau.

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/32237-Birthplace-of-Zarathustra?highlight=zoroastrianism



So:

1) ancient Kurdish (Indo-Iranian) language is related to the Iranian Plateau, due to ergativity.
2) ancient Kurdish (Indo-Iranian) religion (the Yezidism) is related to the Zagros Mountains/Mesopotamia, due to the Sumerian connection. Even Zoroastrianism is related to West Asia.
3) ancient Kurdish (Indo-Iranian) DNA (CHG) is related to the Iranian Plateau/Zagros Mountains!
 

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