Moots: Ancient Rome Paper

At last, I was able to get the coordinates for R850 and R437, by using the BAM conversion in Admixture Studio's version of Eurogenes K15. I will create more from the study, it just takes a really long time.

R850_Latin_Ardea_Tribe,0.39,14.49,7.18,0.00,18.05,19.14,29.44,9.85,0.00,0.18,0.86,0.13,0.00,0.28,0.00
R437_Latin_Prenestini_Tribe,12.48,11.77,5.88,0.00,23.49,15.70,26.02,4.61,0.00,0.06,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00


Id3RwF9.png

Very interesting heat map for R437! Very close to Pugliesi.

2x7h4PC.png
 
Very interesting heat map for R437! Very close to Pugliesi.
2x7h4PC.png
Around 300 BC Puglia was called Messapia.

You, me and R437 are connected :)

ATLkdUQ.jpg


KTSo9mf.jpg
 
What's interesting for me is that the heat map points out that it is closest to other Italian areas including Sicily rather than Albania and Greece.
 
can people upload them to gedmatch ?
cool maps 👍
 
iiyBmTn.png


Heat map for R850, very interesting indeed! Calabria, and Campania has a strong affinity to 850.

(Pressed for time this morning, so I didn't get a chance to color this one.)

Great work, Jovialis. :)

Yes, the 850 Ardea sample seems closest to Campanians and Calabresi, and the 487 Latin Prenestini sample to Apulians.

It makes sense. My husband has ancestry both from Napoli and Calabria and he's at a distance of 10.3 to that sample, although it's only number 14 in ranking order. Strangely, his cousin from the same area in Calabria is a lot further away.

If you ever get time it would be interesting to see the results for the other Latin Ardea sample.

@Bigsnake,
Why would they be closer to Greeks?

Nice PCA too. I would be nestled right between SZ43 and CL36, but closer to SZ43. :)
 
My husband's first 13 hits don't seem to be on the PCA, and he gets quite a few Imperial Era samples, unless the numbers are different?

For example, is Via Paisiello there? That's his number one match.
 
Great work, Jovialis. :)

Yes, the 850 Ardea sample seems closest to Campanians and Calabresi, and the 487 Latin Prenestini sample to Apulians.

It makes sense. My husband has ancestry both from Napoli and Calabria and he's at a distance of 10.3 to that sample, although it's only number 14 in ranking order. Strangely, his cousin from the same area in Calabria is a lot further away.

If you ever get time it would be interesting to see the results for the other Latin Ardea sample.

@Bigsnake,
Why would they be closer to Greeks?

Nice PCA too. I would be nestled right between SZ43 and CL36, but closer to SZ43. :)

Well because Puglia is very close to both Albania and Greece there has been quite a lot of migration from those two areas in ancient times.

The 850 Ardea sample also has a few hotspots in the Greek Islands and Cyprus.
 
Last edited:
@Angela, Thanks!
My short term goal is to get the rest of the Iron Age samples. My long term is to do the whole study. I will also update the PCA along the way; right now it is just those two from the Moots paper.

@ Kingjohn, I downloaded the BAM files and converted them with WGS Extractor to raw data files. Which I converted to AncestryDNA format in DNA kit studio. However, they are not compatible with Gedmatch. Nevertheless, they are compatible with Admixture Studio, which has all of the same calculators. Which is where I obtained the values for the map, since they have K15.
 
Here is a painted version of the R850 map, along with R437, compared to my heat map:

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif]
8rlwThr.png

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif]
2x7h4PC.png

[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif]
brfJ7k7.png
[/FONT][SUB]
[/SUB]
[/FONT]
 
My next set of samples I am working will be the Central Italian Neolithic. I'll post a link to the raw data files when the set is complete. But I can't promise it will be soon. This last file alone was almost 10 gigabytes. Thus far it has the most SNPs I've seen, at over 2 million.

Here is a heat map of R2, fascinating result! Coriscans, Lazians, Calabrians, and Tuscans are most similar. With Sicilians, and Maltese as a close second; Apulians, Neapolitans, and Marches as close third. As well as Greeks and southern Albanians.

QBIzqUe.png
 
My next set of samples I am working will be the Central Italian Neolithic. I'll post a link to the raw data files when the set is complete. But I can't promise it will be soon. This last file alone was almost 10 gigabytes. Thus far it has the most SNPs I've seen, at over 2 million.

Here is a heat map of R2, fascinating result! Coriscans, Lazians, Calabrians, and Tuscans are most similar. With Sicilians, and Maltese as a close second; Apulians, Neapolitans, and Marches as close third. As well as Greeks and southern Albanians.

QBIzqUe.png

Great job, Jovialis. :)

Absolutely fascinating results, too. So, there we have it, the earliest Italian Neolithic is preserved in Italy from Tuscany south, but more so on the western side of the Apennines. Also in Corsica, which makes sense given the connection to Tuscany. Apulia and Campania are just one point away from Lazio and Campania.

That raises the question of why Northern Italy is slightly lower, lower than Greece and Albania, (but, of course, much higher than the levels in countries like Spain, France and the Northern Balkans) while in a lot of analyses using multiple Neolithic sample sources, Northern Italy appears to have one of the highest Neolithic survival rates in Europe.

The first thing that occurs to me is that they received input from populations which contained lots of Neolithic ancestry which was slightly different, perhaps northern Balkan or Central European Neolithic. That, or Italian Neolithic samples from Northern Italy are slightly different, or a combination of both factors. There is one almost completely Neolithic samples in the Parma Beaker set. I wish we could use that for a comparison. I don't think anyone has studied it at all. They're all obsessed only with the steppe.

The EEF survived in Italy in much higher percentages than in Central Europe, clearly. So much, again, for the proposition that the population of the Italian peninsula and islands was replaced completely during the Imperial Era.

When I think of the abuse some of us took for proposing a lot of continuity.

The prevalence of J2 already in Europe during the Neolithic is also a surprise to those "who shall not be named", two in Italy itself.

As for your post 690, I think the other sample from the Ardea tribe, 851, would also be interesting to see, and would probably show that link to the Protovillanovian as well.

I know this is such a pain for you, not being funded by any "special interest" group. Have you considered starting a "fund me page" to purchase more computing power? Would that solve the issue?
 
Great job, Jovialis. :)

Absolutely fascinating results, too. So, there we have it, the earliest Italian Neolithic is preserved in Italy from Tuscany south, but more so on the western side of the Apennines. Also in Corsica, which makes sense given the connection to Tuscany. Apulia and Campania are just one point away from Lazio and Campania.

That raises the question of why Northern Italy is slightly lower, lower than Greece and Albania, (but, of course, much higher than the levels in countries like Spain, France and the Northern Balkans) while in a lot of analyses using multiple Neolithic sample sources, Northern Italy appears to have one of the highest Neolithic survival rates in Europe.

The first thing that occurs to me is that they received input from populations which contained lots of Neolithic ancestry which was slightly different, perhaps northern Balkan or Central European Neolithic. That, or Italian Neolithic samples from Northern Italy are slightly different, or a combination of both factors. There is one almost completely Neolithic samples in the Parma Beaker set. I wish we could use that for a comparison. I don't think anyone has studied it at all. They're all obsessed only with the steppe.

The EEF survived in Italy in much higher percentages than in Central Europe, clearly. So much, again, for the proposition that the population of the Italian peninsula and islands was replaced completely during the Imperial Era.

When I think of the abuse some of us took for proposing a lot of continuity.

The prevalence of J2 already in Europe during the Neolithic is also a surprise to those "who shall not be named", two in Italy itself.

As for your post 690, I think the other sample from the Ardea tribe, 851, would also be interesting to see, and would probably show that link to the Protovillanovian as well.

I know this is such a pain for you, not being funded by any "special interest" group. Have you considered starting a "fund me page" to purchase more computing power? Would that solve the issue?


Thanks Angela :)

In regards to my PC, I plan on getting a new one relatively soon.

Here is the results for R851. Though something is up with the MTA calculator, it doesn't get itself in the sample list... so perhaps it is not a good means for determining ancestry for some of these samples at the moment. It could also explain why we aren't seeing Italians get it in their results.

However, it does in fact get the Protovillanovan:

xCkn5W0.png

h6YuFXF.png

BnHaX6W.png

tcI5Akw.png
 
Thanks Angela :)

In regards to my PC, I plan on getting a new one relatively soon.

Here is the results for R851. Though something is up with the MTA calculator, it doesn't get itself in the sample list... so perhaps it is not a good means for determining ancestry for some of these samples at the moment. It could also explain why we aren't seeing Italians get it in their results.

However, it does in fact get the Protovillanovan:

xCkn5W0.png

h6YuFXF.png

BnHaX6W.png

tcI5Akw.png

For me, in MTA, this ancient sample appears as follows:

zHfEvCX.jpg


CLOSEST ANCIENT
S86WFZc.jpg


CLOSEST MODERN
qOCWe8H.jpg


SIMILAR SAMPLES:
ERRw21P.jpg


HAPLOGROUPS:
9fE2nig.jpg



PCA ANCIENT:
1EC3EM7.jpg


PCA MODERN:
gZdffaq.jpg
 
Thanks Duarte!

There is also something up with the R8 neolthic sample, with MTA. It doesn't get itself either in the list.

Both R851, and R8 also took an extremely long time to upload, on MTA.

At any rate, the files are fine on the other calculators.

Though, they both seem to also not work on Admixturestudio. I let it run for 7 hours, over night, and it never finished processing.

However, I was able to obtain the values, and coordinates by uploading them to yourdnaportal.com, thankfully!
 
Thanks Duarte!

There is also something up with the R8 neolthic sample, with MTA. It doesn't get itself either in the list.

Both R851, and R8 also took an extremely long time to upload, on MTA.

At any rate, the files are fine on the other calculators.

Though, they both seem to also not work on Admixturestudio. I let it run for 7 hours, over night, and it never finished processing.

However, I was able to obtain the values, and coordinates by uploading them to yourdnaportal.com, thankfully!

Despite the MTA issue, the Neolithic sample, R8 is indeed similar to R2. So there isn't an issue with the file:

G50IjAO.png

QBIzqUe.png
[SUB][/SUB]
 
My next set of samples I am working will be the Central Italian Neolithic. I'll post a link to the raw data files when the set is complete. But I can't promise it will be soon. This last file alone was almost 10 gigabytes. Thus far it has the most SNPs I've seen, at over 2 million.

Here is a heat map of R2, fascinating result! Coriscans, Lazians, Calabrians, and Tuscans are most similar. With Sicilians, and Maltese as a close second; Apulians, Neapolitans, and Marches as close third. As well as Greeks and southern Albanians.


Well, 60 means that R2 is not very similar to any modern population. Being a Neolithic sample, there's nothing unusual about it. Can you post also the K36 results of these samples?
 

This thread has been viewed 360483 times.

Back
Top