Where did E-V13 originate ?

Even in Lengyel and Sopot it was sporadically but not dominant. We can discuss about this, it is not crucial. But linguistic issue is very important because it give us base to produce conclusions. E-V13 as a minority lineage have merged with Indo Europeans and expanded with them. Yes, we cannot know languages of E-V13 carriers in the distant past, there is no written evidence. But few people will say that E-V13 carriers are creators of Indo European languages. All the evidence shows that hey are not. They spoke their own languages which have lost by assimilation. And this is not case only with E-V13 carriers, Indo Europeans have expanded and have become dominant over wide areas. None of original languages of E-V13 carriers didn't survive. Or maybe we can look for somewhere?

I have no doubt that E-V13 is not the carrier of Indo European Languages. That would be a far fetched theory in in my opinion. Anything possible close to that would be (maybe) E-V13 was born (10,000 ybhp?) into a community that spoke an Indo European language as a minority haplogroup. But then we do not even know exactly were e-v13 was born and more and more have less of an idea what that particular group (culture) was like or customs adopted.
 
I think it's time to take a step forward, the V13 Neolithic expansion 'was minima.La real expansion and ' occurred from the age ' of bronzo.Infatti all European tests are positive for haplogroup cts 5856 born 4000 years later than the end V13.Alla expansion and ' took place through the Greek colonization , in Genoa for Focei Greeks .
On the map it is clear how they stayed away from Tuscany and Sardinia because 'already inhabited by the Etruscans and fenici.La war Alalia pushed them to disperse and to Eleia in Liguria .
 
I think it's time to take a step forward, the V13 Neolithic expansion 'was minima.La real expansion and ' occurred from the age ' of bronzo.Infatti all European tests are positive for haplogroup cts 5856 born 4000 years later than the end V13.Alla expansion and ' took place through the Greek colonization , in Genoa for Focei Greeks .
On the map it is clear how they stayed away from Tuscany and Sardinia because 'already inhabited by the Etruscans and fenici.La war Alalia pushed them to disperse and to Eleia in Liguria .

You are right ELIOV13. It is clear that the major expansion for E-V13 happened during bronze age. This was a time of a population boom and long distance trading. If not mistaken it spread from the Agean so a possible E-V13 connection would seem possible. However it is also a fact that E-V13 has been around much earlier then this, in the Neolithic, as a minor haplogroup compared say to G or I. We have no ancient Neolithic samples from Balkan proper, so we are relying on more temperate zones like Northern Spain, France Germany and Hungary. I have no doubt that during the Greek Classical era E-V13 spread further since they have founded many towns with literal migration around the Mediterranean. This would explains well the very low percentages of EV-13 in North Africa due to Greek settlements (Alexandria Egypt? Named for Alexander the great? and many others). And also the higher percentages of E-V13 around the Turkish coast (again clear indication of Greek expansion) meaning an import from the Balkans to these areas (and not the other way round). This would be the reason why one would be inclined that E-V13 was born in Balkan proper and none of the peripheries.
 
You are right ELIOV13. It is clear that the major expansion for E-V13 happened during bronze age. This was a time of a population boom and long distance trading. If not mistaken it spread from the Agean so a possible E-V13 connection would seem possible. However it is also a fact that E-V13 has been around much earlier then this, in the Neolithic, as a minor haplogroup compared say to G or I.

Yes, it is evidence, E-V13 is spread in Bronze age.

We have no ancient Neolithic samples from Balkan proper, so we are relying on more temperate zones like Northern Spain, France Germany and Hungary. I have no doubt that during the Greek Classical era E-V13 spread further since they have founded many towns with literal migration around the Mediterranean.

E-V13 spread with Greeks and with Indo-Europeans (of course and Greeks are Indo-Europeans too but for understanding different directions).

For example E-V13 in Saint-Petersburg, Vladivostok, Oslo, Stockholm or Copenhagen is not brought by Greeks.

This would explains well the very low percentages of EV-13 in North Africa due to Greek settlements (Alexandria Egypt? Named for Alexander the great? and many others). And also the higher percentages of E-V13 around the Turkish coast (again clear indication of Greek expansion) meaning an import from the Balkans to these areas (and not the other way round). This would be the reason why one would be inclined that E-V13 was born in Balkan proper and none of the peripheries.

Situation in Neolithic:

Y_DNA_8_do_5_kya.png

In Neolithic R1b samples dominated in Samara above the Caspian sea, but in Western Europe is completely different situation.

Today R1b dominates in Western Europe and not above Caspian sea.

Bearers of haplogroups move and migrate and for various reasons leave the places where they once lived, today's situation can be total different in comparison with 5,000 or 10,000 years ago.

Where is place of origin of E-V13, there are hypothesis it is Western Asia, Northern Africa, somewhere in Europe, but Western Asia is most probably, as Cruciani et al argue that was about 11 ky ago.
 
For example E-V13 in Saint-Petersburg, Vladivostok, Oslo, Stockholm or Copenhagen is not brought by Greeks.

indeed, and neither by Romans. I am not very familiar with the history of the regions. As to E-V13 in Scandinavia it seems plausible there was trade between Thrace (already some indications that E was present in Tharce) and Vikings and maybe peoples of those areas. Maybe war? Slaves? I am really not sure.



Situation in Neolithic:

Y_DNA_8_do_5_kya.png

In Neolithic R1b samples dominated in Samara above the Caspian sea, but in Western Europe is completely different situation.

Today R1b dominates in Western Europe and not above Caspian sea.

Bearers of haplogroups move and migrate and for various reasons leave the places where they once lived, today's situation can be total different in comparison with 5,000 or 10,000 years ago.

Where is place of origin of E-V13, there are hypothesis it is Western Asia, Northern Africa, somewhere in Europe, but Western Asia is most probably, as Cruciani et al argue that was about 11 ky ago.

Indeed. Is this the latest map? E from Legyel and sopot from the Hungary area are not listed. And didn't we have some samples from Villa Bruna? Balkans and Italy are totally void of ancient Neolithic samples, and I am under the impression that they could have been some of the most populated regions since we are not far off from the melting of the ice age and this area (Balkans) could have served as some kind of refugium. As climate changed and northern areas became more habitable we would see movements of people. Without dna neolithic sampling from Italy and the Balkans, the picture cannot be complete. Same applies to Near east.
 
There is one from Greece. It was reported in this paper: http://biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2015/11/25/032763.full.pdf . As you can see it was G2a2a1b.

Interesting and thanks for the link. Tried to look for a more updated map on Neolithic dna but couldn't find any on just a simple google search. I am not sure how people conclude on what to put on their charts. Example I read an article once that a G was found near Stonehenge which was thought to be Neolithic and yet we have no samples from the area on any map. The findings and the reporting are very poorly coordinated it seems, unless there are deeper reasons for it. The Natufian results are also very interesting.
 
For me it is easy to say that our V13 originates in the Cyclades and in the Aegean sea with those civilizations ' minoiche.Non calls were definitely indoeuropei.Avevano very strong ties with Libya and Egitto.A result of decadence and especially after the explosion of Santorini ( Thera ) were conquered by Indo-European populations
( Akei ) .With these coalesced into a society ' now called micenea.Piu later came the Dorians , these Indo-Europeans , and probably much Nordici.Le cyclades were much more populated then, there are archaeological findings well on these remarkable prehistoric scattered isole.E all that in greek language came from the sea , was due to loro.Quale best candidate for V13 and maybe J ? And as ' the expansion of a group africano.Gli today's inhabitants of the Greek islands are a little different since then ' cause then suffered the colonization of Akei and Dori .
 
For me it is easy to say that our V13 originates in the Cyclades and in the Aegean sea with those civilizations ' minoiche.Non calls were definitely indoeuropei.Avevano very strong ties with Libya and Egitto.A result of decadence and especially after the explosion of Santorini ( Thera ) were conquered by Indo-European populations
( Akei ) .With these coalesced into a society ' now called micenea.Piu later came the Dorians , these Indo-Europeans , and probably much Nordici.Le cyclades were much more populated then, there are archaeological findings well on these remarkable prehistoric scattered isole.E all that in greek language came from the sea , was due to loro.Quale best candidate for V13 and maybe J ? And as ' the expansion of a group africano.Gli today's inhabitants of the Greek islands are a little different since then ' cause then suffered the colonization of Akei and Dori .

I do not think that there are any ancient dna studies on the Cyclades per se (ancient or current), however according to excavations it seems they had a culture that migrated from the East (Anatolia). Further south (Crete and its minion culture) has revealed also that ancient mtdna is similar to that of continental Europe and no connection (at least mtdna) with North Africa or Arabia. Of course there is always the question of how reliable these studies are. However culturally it seems that there has been some affinities with Egyptian and Libyan cultures but according to the studies not so much genetically.

"The authors therefore conclude that the Minoan civilisation was a local development, originated by inhabitants who probably reached the island around 9,000 years ago, in Neolithic times."


"The ancient Minoan DNA was most similar to populations from western and northern Europe. The population showed particular genetic affinities with Bronze Age populations from Sardinia and Iberia and Neolithic samples from Scandinavia and France."

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-22527821


 
I read the article and frankly I 'seemed very superficiale.Sopratutto when it concludes that the ancient inhabitants of Crete are the same as attuali.Quali? Because haplogroup most represented and' J2 34% E1b1b1 and 'the second with 11% and R1b and '9% probably Akei follows R1a probably Dorico.Poi G2a. Then more we go to the Cyclades more haplogroup E increases. Then, just 3700 years ago there were great changes .A probable invasion from Anatolia (perhaps G2a) and the destruction of buildings .Terremoti preceding the eruption of Thera. From the point of view of the Y dna the Minoans, in my opinion, were J2A E1b1b1 and G2a. Returning to our. V13 very isolated from its initial context (M78) had the Z1919 mutations, L618 right in the Aegean Sea in close correlation with the people Pelasgian pre Greeks, not indoeuropei.V13 has always had a lot to do with mare.Pian plan colonize ' even the Peloponnese Thessaly, the Attic and tracia.Fu then crushed by the Indo-European invasions of 2600 forward cristo.Ma its fast expansion I see after the mutation in cts 5856 (4000 years or so after V13) ancestor of almost all E europei.L'eruzione of Thera around 1640 before christ) was preceded by strong earthquakes that did migrate from the cyclades to the many inhabitants continent .And i think it inizio'la diaspora to form the illirici.Arrivarono peoples then Akei, you melted for about four centuries beginning the company 'Mycenaean called by archeologi.Le Doric invasions after the trojan war created divisions and sectarianism in society' greca.Si arrival 'then the classical period and the colonies and our V13 expanded into throughout the Mediterranean where I 'not yet organized populations or entering into conflict, thus steering clear as in the case of Focei populations arrived from a politico.Laziali consolidation, Etruscan etc. I see it so.
 
I read the article and frankly I 'seemed very superficiale.Sopratutto when it concludes that the ancient inhabitants of Crete are the same as attuali.Quali? Because haplogroup most represented and' J2 34% E1b1b1 and 'the second with 11% and R1b and '9% probably Akei follows R1a probably Dorico.Poi G2a. Then more we go to the Cyclades more haplogroup E increases. Then, just 3700 years ago there were great changes .A probable invasion from Anatolia (perhaps G2a) and the destruction of buildings .Terremoti preceding the eruption of Thera. From the point of view of the Y dna the Minoans, in my opinion, were J2A E1b1b1 and G2a. Returning to our. V13 very isolated from its initial context (M78) had the Z1919 mutations, L618 right in the Aegean Sea in close correlation with the people Pelasgian pre Greeks, not indoeuropei.V13 has always had a lot to do with mare.Pian plan colonize ' even the Peloponnese Thessaly, the Attic and tracia.Fu then crushed by the Indo-European invasions of 2600 forward cristo.Ma its fast expansion I see after the mutation in cts 5856 (4000 years or so after V13) ancestor of almost all E europei.L'eruzione of Thera around 1640 before christ) was preceded by strong earthquakes that did migrate from the cyclades to the many inhabitants continent .And i think it inizio'la diaspora to form the illirici.Arrivarono peoples then Akei, you melted for about four centuries beginning the company 'Mycenaean called by archeologi.Le Doric invasions after the trojan war created divisions and sectarianism in society' greca.Si arrival 'then the classical period and the colonies and our V13 expanded into throughout the Mediterranean where I 'not yet organized populations or entering into conflict, thus steering clear as in the case of Focei populations arrived from a politico.Laziali consolidation, Etruscan etc. I see it so.

The bronze age no doubt has seen a rapid expansion of E-V13 and there is little doubt that this happened in the Balkans with its very intricate prehistory and history, the million dollar question would remain as to when E-V13 was mutated and in which area? West Asia? Balkan proper? (which I believe) North Africa (which I really do not think so) We seem to have a number of ancient studies in relation to Mtdna in the Balkans but not so much Ydna, so one can just speculate unfortunately.
 
There are, however, 'some fixed points.
Haplogroup "E" definitely comes from the southern Mediterranean, not 'indoors it' speak a language indoeuropea.In asia especially to the east did not have a real expansion unless the anatoliche.Ha coasts much to do with the trafficking and with the events related to the sea that you will find anywhere in the colonies greche.E definitely had a espansiona from the Balkans meaning with this also the current Greece until Creta.Nella region now called Greece lived before the arrival of the "Indo-Greeks "populations with language unknown to us now that we know under the name of Pelasgians, Leleges, dear etc.Il ns V13 without risking losing a million dollars was born in that stock, with the sea that isolated him from his African ancestors, and from 'asia.Tutto leaning towards the West, where today and' the present 90% circa.Ho read somewhere that the more genetic variables has its own in Greece confirming 'them most antichita'.Sopratutto in Kosovo there was' a lucky expansion due to the founder, but then one can not speak of Albania and then not discuss Pelasgi Illiri.Se and then we have to discuss numbers have many, many more EV13 Italy than the small Kosovo or Macedonia or albania or bulgaria.In Italy arrived by mare.Tutti.Addirittura Umbrian and part of the Venetians, Pugliesi by Illiri.nel Tirreno by Anatolian Focei up to Liguria and Marseille, Nice, Genoa etc.For not speak of Sicily, calabria , campania with dallla greece and continental migrations from egee.Li islands, unless you look at the percentages, EV13 has much importanti.Se numbers we consider that migrants of Italian origin living abroad especially Southerners are not less than 60/70 million abitanti.Ci we make it so 'account that today the real territory with more and V13' the Italia.Anche though I realize that the real starting broth was certainly the Balkans with Greece confirming the accredited history of the movement from south-east to the west of all these peoples constantly mediterranei.Io to think so '
 
There are, however, 'some fixed points.
Haplogroup "E" definitely comes from the southern Mediterranean, not 'indoors it' speak a language indoeuropea.In asia especially to the east did not have a real expansion unless the anatoliche.Ha coasts much to do with the trafficking and with the events related to the sea that you will find anywhere in the colonies greche.E definitely had a espansiona from the Balkans meaning with this also the current Greece until Creta.Nella region now called Greece lived before the arrival of the "Indo-Greeks "populations with language unknown to us now that we know under the name of Pelasgians, Leleges, dear etc.Il ns V13 without risking losing a million dollars was born in that stock, with the sea that isolated him from his African ancestors, and from 'asia.Tutto leaning towards the West, where today and' the present 90% circa.Ho read somewhere that the more genetic variables has its own in Greece confirming 'them most antichita'.Sopratutto in Kosovo there was' a lucky expansion due to the founder, but then one can not speak of Albania and then not discuss Pelasgi Illiri.Se and then we have to discuss numbers have many, many more EV13 Italy than the small Kosovo or Macedonia or albania or bulgaria.In Italy arrived by mare.Tutti.Addirittura Umbrian and part of the Venetians, Pugliesi by Illiri.nel Tirreno by Anatolian Focei up to Liguria and Marseille, Nice, Genoa etc.For not speak of Sicily, calabria , campania with dallla greece and continental migrations from egee.Li islands, unless you look at the percentages, EV13 has much importanti.Se numbers we consider that migrants of Italian origin living abroad especially Southerners are not less than 60/70 million abitanti.Ci we make it so 'account that today the real territory with more and V13' the Italia.Anche though I realize that the real starting broth was certainly the Balkans with Greece confirming the accredited history of the movement from south-east to the west of all these peoples constantly mediterranei.Io to think so '

I agree with you on many fronts and I believe the Southern Balkans is a likely candidate to be its cradle. I believe that the current distribution is more linked with a bronze age distribution, which I would consider part 2 of the E-V13 story. The mutation of E-V13 can go back even up to another 3/5 thousand years as we have proof from the Late neolithic cave in Northern Spain. We also have ancient E samples as old from Hungary Sopot and Lengyel, so we know that E-V13 has been roaming around since these times. Its irrelevant wether these are singletons or scouts as they are sometimes called, the fact is they were there and proved. As I stated before we do not have any reliable ancient dna samples from the Southern Balkans so it makes the whole story inconclusive. Thrace and Bulgaria in General can also have an interesting link with E-V13 evolution and some papers suggested as I have posted before that: Aegean Immigration to the southern Levant:The Y chromosome patterns of contemporary populations offers a lens throughwhich to explore the possible demographic effects of the Iron Age I Philistines in the farsouthern coastal Levant. Apart from the J2a patterns listed above, previous studies showan Aegean focus for two non-J Y lineages: E-V13 and G-M527/L13. E-V13 has beenshown to have originated most probably in the Balkans circa 9000 BCE as a Mesolithicmarker, while G-M527/L13 arose somewhat later during the Late Neolithic Era in coastalWestern Anatolia (Battaglia et al. 2008; Rootsi et al. 2012). Both lineages track Greekcolonization events from present day Marseilles/Provence (Greek colony of Massalia) toGreek colonies in Ukraine and Crimea (King et al. 2011; Rootsi et al. 2012). We alsofind E-V13 and G-M527 among contemporary Palestinians and Druze from Israel (table1). This result suggests that E-V13 and G-M527 may track the immigration of Aegean........

http://digitalcommons.wayne.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1043&context=humbiol_preprints

All mainstream papers/studies suggest a west asian entry of either E-V13 proper or its precursor with a mere alternative suggestion which has not really taken ground.
 
Nobody can be sure about the origin and when it spread around Europe as of yet, but I would propose to consider anthropology as a helping factor.

In my opinion the spread of E-V13 clearly indicates that it represented an old population being "pushed to corners" by constant migration waves and invasions, seeking mostly mountainous refugias.

The perfect area to analyze is the Balkans due to the more conservative societies, especially in the Western Balkans.

We know for a fact that its highest concentration is in the mountainous areas of North Albania, Western Kosovo, and Southern Montenegro, inhabited by people being predominantly of the so-called Dinaric type.

Now my theory is that E-V13 has been there long enough to represent the same subrace as the I2a and J2b, meaning the three haplogroups intermixed to the extent of becoming almost identical physically and appearance wise, thus possibly giving birth to the local variant known as Dinaric/Epirotic/Adriatic.

The same applies for the mountainous regions of North-Western Bulgaria and Romania where the majority of E-V13 is concentrated and the Dinaric race is more prevalent. Even further, the presence of E-V13 together with a "higher than normal" Dinaric race in Ukraine makes its history similar to the southern mountainous regions.

Other regions to consider are the Peloponnese in Southern Greece and although most of the Dinarics in Greece are located in these mountainous regions, I am only using the example of Peloponnese as an indicator of a mountainous E-V13 population.

Furthermore, we can add to the the analysis South Italy where despite it being predominantly a Mediterranean region racially, the prevalence of Dinaric-Mediterranean type is very high. The same applies to Lazio and some Northern regions of Italy.

My hypothesis does have limitations in Italy as the the populations are not as homogeneous as in the Balkans, meaning that the level of industrialization will definitely make it harder to link a certain haplogroup with specific migrations, as people moved around from cities to mountains to fields and vice versa more often than in the Balkans. For instance since Yetos mentioned Venice, that to me is a clear indication of Medieval Albanian and Greek settlers. Part of my own family settled initially in Venice and then spread in several Northern Italian cities after the Ottoman invasion.

So its concentration in the mountains and even distribution in Italy in my opinion does indicate a pre Bronze Age distribution and not a massive Bronze Age spread or more recent Greek colonization.

Basically, I see the E-V13 everywhere in Europe as a relatively old people, being racially "hunter gatherers" (or at least a hybrid variant) and linguistically IE like the very people that pushed them to the aforementioned refugias, and not at all the reason why South Italy is so dolichocephalic as Maciamo believes.
 
The fact remains, Nik, that an examination of the yDna shows a massive expansion in the Bronze Age. Somehow, they got very lucky at that time.
 
The fact remains, Nik, that an examination of the yDna shows a massive expansion in the Bronze Age. Somehow, they got very lucky at that time.
Of course, I am not disagreeing that it did spread during the Bronze Age as well, and massively also. I am not a supporter of any theory that tries to disprove another unless the facts have a 100% match and cover 100% of the puzzles.

Based on what I said in the previous post, I believe and see as reasonable the fact that E-V13 spread slowly and evenly since Mesolithic and then it had a peak period during the Bronze Age. So the idea is that this Bronze Age boom within a few hundred years can never be larger than a slow constant spread of thousands of years

Furthermore, I take the yDna examinations with a grain of salt as I cant yet understand how reliable their estimations are. My confusion could be due to my ignorance on the subject, but then again even the current scientists themselves cannot claim they're 100% right either. All I see is them estimating something and then being crushed by new findings, which makes me think if I should ever bother reading estimates and theories anymore. I'd better be waiting for actual findings and extensive ancient dna tests. So based on continuous experiences, there is a very high possibility that their methods are not that legit.

Just for curiosity, what is ur opinion on the correlation between E-V13, its high prevalence in mountainous regions and the link to a brachycephalic ancient population?
 
I don't know enough of the details of population movement in the Balkans to comment with any authority about it's distribution.

In terms of Italy I'm not convinced E-V13 does have a predominantly mountainous distribution.

We can take a look at Maciamo's map:
Haplogroup-E-V13.gif


Apulia is flat. The same goes for the lowland Veneto. Or take Liguria: yes, it's very mountainous, but from what I've seen it is the coastal areas which are high in E-V13. As soon as you get up into the mountains of the Ligurian Appennines, the Alpi Apuani, the Tosco-Emilianp Appennines, you start getting very high percentages of R1b.

Or, take a look at the hot spots in Spain or the central European plain.

Again in terms of Italy, Boattini et al and Sarno et al, which only took a representative sample of people with regional surnames, found that the arrival of E-V13 in Italy was relatively recent, i.e. first millennium BC., which ties in very well with the Greek expansion and the Greek trading empire. Now, I'm not saying that there couldn't have been "older" or more upstream E-V13, or its precursors in Italy at an earlier date. I'm just saying that the clades which expanded in the Bronze Age most probably didn't originate in Italy, and reached it later.

As to whether they were more brachy in skull shape than the original Neolithic farmers, I don't know. We now have precursors to E-V13 in early Neolithic Spain, and in Hungary in Sopot and Lengyel in the Middle to Late Neolithic transition. We have E-V13 (or is it precursors?) in the Near East. Someone should see if the measurements for these skulls are available for them and for remains from roughly the same eras, but different yDna haplogroups. That's the only way we'd know, yes?

This is from another thread, but I think it's still pertinent, and there are good links:

(I don't know whether these maps have been updated since 2013.)
I'd be sure to take a look at the two Boattini studies, and as mentioned above, the Trombetta 2015 paper, but if you want your tables to be accurate there are many studies on the issue. (It's important to actually read the Trombetta paper, and the others for that matter. Just listing the varieties doesn't go all that far in analyzing the data.)

Boattini et al:
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/art...l.pone.0065441

This is actually Sarno et al, but Boattini is one of the authors:
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/art...e-0096074-t001

(One needs to be mindful that these are small samples so it wouldn't do to conclude, for example, that a large number of E-M81 people settled in Emilia-Romagna. One also has to remember that these clades came at different times from different places, and some of them are very minor in terms of frequency.)

Trombetta et al:
http://gbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/7/7/1940.full

The Boattini papers were discussed here, and there's some good analysis if I say so myself. :)
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...tini-et-al-%29

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...tini-et-al-%29

Of course, all of this analysis was before the discovery of J2 and E-V13 in the Neolithic Balkans 4700 BC, or J2 in a Bronze Age warrior, which makes us look very prescient indeed. :)

I haven't been reading this thread for a while, so I don't know if someone posted a link to the study of Cypriot yDna. E-V13 is discussed in that context.
Voskarides et al:
https://investigativegenetics.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13323-016-0032-8
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the very informative link re Cypriot dna. There defiantly are some interesting points observed in regards to E-V13 and luckily has been dealt with extensively too. We seem to be drifting further and further away from an E-V13 crossing (island hopping) directly from North Africa as it has been suggested.

quote - In Europe, certain sub-haplogroups of G and specifically E-V13 were detected in ancient DNA, including Linear Band Keramik (LBK) remains from Central Europe (ca. 8000 y BP), Epicardial skeletons from Iberia (7000 y BP), South of France Late Neolithic (5000 y BP), and a Tyrol specimen (5300 y BP) [77, 78, 79, 80].- end quote

https://investigativegenetics.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13323-016-0032-8
 
2014 study

On the other hand, Y-chromosome lineage E-V13 is thought to have originated in southern Balkans
[53][54] and then to have spread in Sicily at high frequencies with the Greek colonization of the island [8].

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0096074
 
hi guys,
I just tested my Y-DNA and turns to be V-13, I am from Iraq, and my father came from a very tribal-closed area in Marsh-Arabs, located in south Iraq. My mtDNA is H14. Anyone can help me figure out where did my ancestors come from?
MJ
 

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