Where does the Albanian language come from? [VIDEO]

blevins13 said:

The next to each other is not overlapping each other or mixed with each other. Are you proposing that Albanian and Romanian villages were mixed in that area?




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PaleoRevenge said:

Delvine has nothing to do with Dalmatia. This is the typical hysterical way how these clowns force a Illyrian connection, this is their proof.

Delvine toponym is restricted to south Albania, it occurs in Epirus as well, and the Greeks associate with Albanians. They for whatever reason associated with vineyards. I do not know how they arrived at that conclusion since that word is not used as far as I know for vineyard.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delvinaki



Or did Illyrians settle in south-west Bulgaria?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delvino,_Blagoevgrad_Province

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Pashai Janinës said:

Before "mapping" you should learn some ......Albanian language.
In Albanian language there is the word ar/ë and there is also the word arr/ë. These are two different words. Ar/ë in English is translated arable land meanwhile arr/ë is translated walnut.
BTW, i don't know what scientific methodology have you guys used when you link for example the toponym Dumbija with the Albanian dhëmb(tooth). Personally to me this toponym sounds more closer to the English dumbass.

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A. Papadimitriou said:

A word that came to my mind was Greek tumbos (mound, burial mound and secondary meaning grave)

It is probably from another language though, since there is a root tum- 'to swell' and indications that related words could have been used for mounts but even hills or mountains (a meaning 'small hill' at least in Celtic).
tumb- words in Greek, Celtic and Armenian.

The Greek toponym Tymphe is probably related. It reflects something like ~ Tumbha

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For a tribal population with a fairly low level of material culture, reaching the line of the Danube and looking south was the equivalent of a hungry man pressing his face against the window of a grocery. The Balkans, fully restored to Byzantine control under the energetic Emperor Justinian (527-65), contained many flourishing towns and cities, supported by productive agriculture and active trading routes. The Slavs were not the first to cross the Danube in search of better things. Germanic Goths had done so (with Byzantine permission, at first) in the fourth century, and had gone raiding as far as Greece and the Albanian coast thereafter; Huns, under Attila, had attacked in the 440s, and Bulgars (a Turkic tribe) had started raiding at the end of that century. [2] But none of these earlier invaders left any imprint on the Balkans comparable to that of the Slavs. Indeed, by the time that the Turkic-speaking Bulgars came to settle permanently in the Balkans in the seventh century, the Slav element was already so well established there that the conquering Bulgars were eventually to lose their own language and be absorbed by their Slav-speaking subjects. [3]

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While most details about the movement of the early Slavs into the Balkans are unclear, the basic facts are known. A large tribal population of Slavs - among whom the Serbs and the Croats were two particular tribes, or tribal groupings - occupied parts of central Europe, north of the Danube, in the fifth and sixth centuries ad. The Serbs had their power-base in the area of the Czech lands and Saxony, and the Croats in Bavaria, Slovakia and southern Poland. This central European location was not the earliest known home of the Serbs; most of the evidence points to an earlier migration from the north and north-eastern side of the Black Sea. At that earlier period the Serbs and Croats seem to have lived together with more warlike Iranian tribes, and their tribal names may derive from Iranian ruling elites: Ptolemy, writing in the second century ad, located the 'Serboi' among the Sarmatians (an Iranian grouping) on the northern side of the Caucasus. Little is known about the Slavs' way of life in these earlier periods. The first descriptions we have of them are by Byzantine writers, who portray them as a wild people, more pastoral than agricultural, with many chiefs but no supreme leader. [1]

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1337 said:

I have been thinking about this whole Albanoi thing, is it possible a name that also could of been picked up by some other tribe like what happened to Bulgarians and Serboi ?

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mount123 said:

Their proof is essentially "proof by saying so" style.

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enter_tain said:

Or. Or. Hear me out. Albanians are actually the Albanoi.

I love how these people start with the assumption that they're not ​Illyrian, and work backwards.

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Dushman said:

We cannot be Illyrians because Skodra has sk- in it which in Albanian is h-, so no, sorry. They’re not Thracian either, nor Dacian.

They are…


Dardano-Trojans. Descendants of Priam, Hector, Aeneas, founders of Rome, therefore founders of the Western Civilization.

Messapians -> J2b2, Messapian -> similarities to Albanian, Messapians -> from Eastern Adriatic, so Messapians = Illyrians? NO.

Messapians = Dardanians = Channelled Ware pot users = Gava/Brnjica/Psenichevo.

Dardanians stronk. Dardanians Newborn. Screw Illyrians. Screw their autosomal contribution.

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Dushman said:

Un-Albanian development? What do you expect us to call a former Illyrian capital, regional center, Imperial town, Hod�r/Hodra?

Similarly, Shkumbin should be humbin? Sk- to shk- is an Albanian development. You think 100% of sk became h? Ancient Greek and Latin both shifted Proto-IE sk to k/c, while preserving it in other instances.

*shqerr - from dialectal shkjerr, from Proto-Albanian*skera, from Proto-Indo-European*(s)ker(H)- (compare Englishshear, Ancient Greekκείρω(ke�rō, �to shear; ravage, destroy�), Lithuaniansk�rti(�to cut, divide�)).

*harr - from Proto-Albanian*skarna, from *skera. Cognate with Gothicus-skarjan(us-skarjan, �to tear out�), Lithuanianskiri�.

*shkrep� 1 - from Proto-Albanian*krep-, from Proto-Indo-European*ker-p-, *krep-(�to crack, crash�), an onomatopoeic root. Cognate to Latincrepo(�to resound, ring, tone�). A formation with the prefix sh-.

*shkrep� 2 - from a singularized plural of shkarp, a sh- prefixed formation from karp, from Proto-Indo-European*kṛHp-.

*karp� - from Proto-Albanian*karpā, from Proto-Indo-European*kerp-(�to pluck�). Compare Lithuaniankar̃pas(�hack, notch�), Swedishharv(�harrow�), Ancient Greekκαρπός(karp�s, �fruit�). See also the name of the Carpathians.
*shkrumb/shkrum - from Proto-Albanian*i�-kruma, with a non etymological -mb-<*m (cf. Romanian scrum, from Albanian) from Proto-Indo-European*krem, attested in Latin cremō(�to burn�)^[1], or from Proto-Indo-European*skremb, *skr̥mb (cf. Lithuanian skrembti(�to crust over, stiffen�), Swedish skrympa(�to shrink�), English shrimp). Compare also Romanianscrum(�ashes�).

You�re probably confusing the Albanian development with the etymology of Scodra which is an entirely different topic unrelated to the Albanian urheimat.

It�s like saying Ancient Greek wasn�t spoken in Greece because Athens, Corinth, Larissa, etc. are Pre-Greek.

You also have to define time periods as in what do you personally call Proto-Albanian? Because linguists mention Proto-Albanian to show its contact with Latin from 2nd century BC to 5th century AD. So Albanian was in Southern Illyrian in the 2nd century BC but it�s not an Illyrian language?

What Albanian Urheimat are you talking about? 1600 BC? The urheimat could have been in Poland and Hungary for all I care. All those Albanian-Illyrian-Messapic cognates fall to deaf ears because you believe Scodra is not an Albanian development?

Looking at the counter examples of k- to shk- with a sh- prefix it�s pretty plausible to include Shkodra deriving from kodra/kod�r (hill) as a theory to say the least.

I�m starting to doubt Matzinger really said that and it�s rather your personal interpretation. Matzinger has been wrong before and has updated his theories, but the issue is people like you jumping into conclusions that fit your agenda.


I don�t need your respect, neighbour. But you�re talking about my language here and you�re throwing baseless assumptions.


You clearly called the language as Dardanian derived and not Illyrian, creating so many question marks as to when did the Dardanians/non-Illyrians migrate into Praevalitana and Epirus? Because it�s obvious they weren�t there prior the Roman occupation.

According to you Albanian got Doric words from these Dardanians who got them from the Macedonians, but not from the Southern Illyrians who were in direct contact (land and sea route) with Doric Corinthians and their colonies. Extremely plausible, CEO of Logic.

Now you�re probably going to twist the topic again and go into the pre 1200 BC era and mention the legendary Dardanians that even crossed into Anatolia to found Troy.

The Galabri (Dardanians) crossed the Adriatic and settled in Apulia, giving birth to what would be later known as Calabri. Remember, they were Dardanians not Illyrians because Illyrians had sk-.

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enter_tain said:

Or. Or. Hear me out. Albanians are actually the Albanoi.

I love how these people start with the assumption that they're not ​Illyrian, and work backwards.

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enter_tain said:

"Their proof" is I quoted 2 linguists saying the same thing

Istvan Schutz "The name of the Dalmatian/Delmata Illyrian tribe, Dalmatia/Delmatia area, the Illyrian city Delminium/Dalmion, and the name of the present-day Delvinë and Delvinaqi geographical units are related to the Albanian words dele (plural delme) 'sheep', delmer 'shepherd'. Strabo adds the epithet "...πεδιον μελωβοτον..." to the name of the Illyrian city Delmion, meaning "sheep-feeding plain"."

"Linguist Xhelal Ylli translates Delvinë as "white sheep"."

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1337 said:

I have been thinking about this whole Albanoi thing, is it possible a name that also could of been picked up by some other tribe like what happened to Bulgarians and Serboi ?

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Dushman said:

My post from 1 year ago. Nothing wow as a post, just that even amateurs can scrap together few sk- words in Albanian, Greek, and Latin and dismiss the idiotic conclusions of Matzinger.

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1337 said:

What has us not being Albanoi anything to do with not being Illyrian ? Where did I say we are not part Albanoi or that they did not contribute ? Most of the western Balkans was inhabited by Illyrian tribes. Where did all those tribes and people in Albania or other areas go ? What are you even on about ? There is also the entire Roman period. Where is the evidence that we came only from this tribe or the Albanian language in general ? Seems completely nonsense to me, especially when you take into consideration the entire Roman period. How could one single tribe of contributed throughout the Roman and Iron Age period and since their migration into the Balkans ? Many of these tribes branched off from each other.

Illyrians were possibly from the Maykop Culture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maykop_culture where they found J2b2-L283 and R1b-L23. They were migrants from the Caucasus together with Thracians that settled the Balkans and inhabited also the Hallstatt. Do you really think people have always had an eternal presence in one single area ? You should look more into human migrations. Nothing suggests some kind of eternal presence even in the Balkans.

For example Barleti mentions Albanians came from Colchis and settled Macedonia.

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1337 said:

Of course his conclusions are idiotic, I already pointed this out as have many people way before you. This is something that is known. You people who seem to think we are the 'Albanoi' seem to suggest they mainly inhabited the area between Drin and Shkumbin since the Iron Age ? Shkodra, Lezha and many of these areas do not even fall under that area. Those areas became Latin speaking yet they follow Albanian sound changes: Shkodra, Durres, Drisht, Ulqin, Lezha, Nish, Shtip, Shkup, Shar, Vushtrri, Lipjan. Not all but some of these parts of Albania that did not fall within the area of this tribe. But they found inscriptions outside that area. Coastal areas of Albania were mostly Latin speaking. There is the entire Roman period.
There were other tribes too.

Where is even the evidence that this tribe only lived between Shkumbin and Drin or that it is the main ancestor ? How do you explain the whole Jirecek line ? More Latin influence than Greek ? Seems to be completely nonsense considering there has been also even a Vlach contribution into the gene pool.

So you're telling me we did not mix with other tribes until one day popped up the Slavs and the Ottoman period and we just magically appeared ? This is the theory that you people who support this 'Albanoi' theory seem to hold. For example the guy who quoted me suggests that the Illyrians in Albania were something totally different from ex-Yugoslavia etc. when such borders were not even known, and tribes that came to inhabit both areas. The guy has some incredibly weird theories.

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Johane Derite said:

Matzingers position is that the proto-Albanians first moved to north albanian regions, and that some historical process resulted in them adopting the ethnonym Albanoi.
We see Albanians calling themselves and being called epirotes based on epirus nova in middle ages, so its not far fetched that if they lived in the region of arbanon they might adopt it as an ethnonym.

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