Seems you are forgetting what Brumzi tried so hard to tell you about some leaks, aren't you? lol Since often you get confused at my comments. I am referring to the pre Glasinac Mati L283 in Albania. They had to come from nowhere in historical period mate.
When things were more ambiguous some credit was due, but now that things start to settle your bias is showing. Old story in fora, remember Huban? Mask slips here and there. Wonder what he will comment about Neolithic* V13 in Balkans if its confirmed.
But as for you, you might benefit from understanding one cant always be right. Just like you in the last 2-3 debates we had here and on anthro.
Albanian IA and modern Albanians overlapping? Muh noo, these were mixed Illyrians, Illyri propi dicti were not a thing(sarcasm).
Mate the whole backstage to your theories coincidentally always backs anti Albanian rhetoric in respect to autochthony, whatever haplo or period is being discussed.
I would understand this to be the case for a Balkan person brainwashed by 100 years of Jugoslav propaganda, but for an Austrian (us having had this discussion in private) you seem very Balkan like. Maybe its not just your haplogroup. Well certain diasporas are prevalent over there after all, and truth is not always told over pms, huh?
Let's stick to the facts. Like what is upsetting about Bruzmi is that he misquotes papers the wrong way three times, five times, ten times, always selectively. Like when he quoted Nenova, he pointed out the LBA diversity of Bulgaria/Thrace, but she herself wrote in the same paper, some pages later, how big the impact of Channelled Ware was, that it created a new era and can be used to relatively date the LBA-EIA transition. Its so widespread and common, so homogeneous in almost all later Thracian territories, that it can be used to date other finds and cultures!
I wrote this to him, but he still keeps quoting Nenova as if her paper would create some sort of contradiction to what I'm saying: Absolutely not, I quoted her before he did, and I say exactly what she says, just with one difference, since the "pots not people" dogma doesn't allow the "correctly working" archaeologists to prematurely associate such archaeological complexes with mass migrations and replacement events. That's the job of ancient DNA, to prove or disprove that.
And that's bad intention, if people do that over and over again. Selectively misquoting papers.
I made my faults too, but I won't repost the same quotations 10 times on 5 fora in a misleading and wrongly contextualised way.
As for J-L283 before Glasinac-Mati: I said repeatedly that I see Illyrians being associated with Posusje-Dinaric culture, either coming from Cetina or Castellieri with some influences from Apennine Italian and/or Alpine Tumulus culture.
We will see when exaclty J-L283 gets more numerous in e.g. Serbia, so not just low level presence like in Mokrin, but really starting to get dominant.
Critical for me is how this relates to E-V13 and its prehistory, because my main point was that E-V13 spread late in the Balkans, especially the more Southern Balkan, to which Albania belongs. And that's exactly what we see, up to this point: Even J-L283 in high frequencies was there before E-V13.
What does that mean? In my opinion it means Proto-Illyrians reached parts of Serbia, possibly very Northern Albania, earlier than E-V13 which came with Channelled Ware. They might have started to mix with local populations there or not, that's something we don't know, but they seem to have been there, before.
Thracians with Channelled Ware and dominated by E-V13 came in on top of these earlier layers and pushed them West, initially.
Like the area of Srem: It was not related to Channelled Ware groups before the LBA-EIA, but it was largely taken by G?va-related Channelled Ware groups in the transitional period. However, in the Early to Middle Iron Age, the Illyrians, under pressure from the West, started to push back and crossed into Srem, creating a largely Illyrian group with Channelled Ware/Thracian substrate.
So the same area might have been:
- 1. Heavily J-L283 and related to Illyrians at one point in the Bronze Age
- 2. Became more E-V13 and Thracian shifted in the LBA-EIA transition
- 3. Was taken by Illyrians (historically proven) from the West which formed kind of an adstrate and replaced a good portion of the locals
What would that mean for the J-L283 : E-V13 ratio? It shifted from 2. to 3. fairly massively, because we really see that new elites just crashed into the area, and replacing the preceding one to a large degree.
That's what I'm talking about. I'm not questioning that historically known people were ethnic Illyrians. But they were different from core Illyrian groups which being dominated by J-L283 and resemble HRV_BA/IA not by chance, but because of fairly big admixtue events with locals/other neighbours, especially the Thracians and Paenonians, Channelled Ware related formations.
