David Reich Southern Arc Paper Abstract

Very little of it is J2b you can find the the numbers in Maciamos pages.

I did not forgot to include Toscana. I just used Lazio and Abruzzo as clearer example.

Toscana's Y DNA is around 85-90% European-related yes. J2a is roughly 10% there and other Y-DNA such a J1 and (non E-V13) E are few points together.
I don't know why Tuscans are so distant to Latins and Etruscans with all that R1b. They should've been at most, judging by Y DNA, only 10% shifted towards Cyprus but the distance is greater than that. IDK why.
I honestly don’t understand your point.Are you saying that J2A isn’t Euro related? What about G which has been around since the Neolithic. I honestly feel like you’re trying to draw a connection between haplogroips and genetic admixture.
 
I honestly don’t understand your point.Are you saying that J2A isn’t Euro related? What about G which has been around since the Neolithic. I honestly feel like you’re trying to draw a connection between haplogroips and genetic admixture.
My belief is that J2a outside of Ancient Greece in Pre-Hellenistic Europe was very rare.
G was pretty common among Balkan Samples and other regions too, G is an other story.
 
I've never seen a paper be delayed like this. It's truly astonishing. It's been on the works for years, and now it's "hopefully" next year, meaning it may even be released in 2024 or beyond. Maybe because its authors know the conclusion is a pile of horse manure and they're trying to hide it? Harvard is trying its best to "disprove" all the "mUh aRyAn SumPremicAy" theories.

Honestly, the "anti-racists" are just as bad as the racists. Instead of letting reality just be reality, everyone wants history to "prove" or "disprove" something. Maybe people back then lived life without giving a shit about the political consequences of what happened 6,000 years later because someone discovered some of their bone fragments?
 
I've never seen a paper be delayed like this. It's truly astonishing. It's been on the works for years, and now it's "hopefully" next year, meaning it may even be released in 2024 or beyond. Maybe because its authors know the conclusion is a pile of horse manure and they're trying to hide it? Harvard is trying its best to "disprove" all the "mUh aRyAn SumPremicAy" theories.

Honestly, the "anti-racists" are just as bad as the racists. Instead of letting reality just be reality, everyone wants history to "prove" or "disprove" something. Maybe people back then lived life without giving a shit about the political consequences of what happened 6,000 years later because someone discovered some of their bone fragments?

Why are you so confident that it is "political"? What if this is reality, and you are just allowing your own biases to fool yourself?
 
Why are you so confident that it is "political"? What if this is reality, and you are just allowing your own biases to fool yourself?

Also, why stop here, and not argue that Out of Africa is a political theory too? Maybe that's the next step, or I guess maternal an paternal phylogeny is too hard to work around?
 
I've never seen a paper be delayed like this. It's truly astonishing. It's been on the works for years, and now it's "hopefully" next year, meaning it may even be released in 2024 or beyond. Maybe because its authors know the conclusion is a pile of horse manure and they're trying to hide it? Harvard is trying its best to "disprove" all the "mUh aRyAn SumPremicAy" theories.
Honestly, the "anti-racists" are just as bad as the racists. Instead of letting reality just be reality, everyone wants history to "prove" or "disprove" something. Maybe people back then lived life without giving a shit about the political consequences of what happened 6,000 years later because someone discovered some of their bone fragments?

No
The balkan paper is the delayed one
Next year thats what carles told me in email
The southern arc paper( which is the topic of this thread) i believe soon ( thats what erikl86 from anthrogenica said he was in david lecture in jerusalem)
 
(Yes those numbers are hyperbolic according to historian 200,000 slaves rebelled in Sicily. That is a huge number and far away from reality.)

Actually I have done research about that. And I have asked that question to myself: what about so many Gaul's that were enslaved or other people.
So I have not come up with an ideal answer but I can say this:
1.) Regardless of how many Britons, Iberians or Gauls that were enslaved, in Sicily the slaves were overwhelmingly from Eastern Mediterranean. That's a historical fact.
the nationalities of the known world could be seen, but most of the slaves in Sicily had their origins in the eastern Mediterranean. The owner of slaves, in Roman antiquity, had complete power over them, even that of life and death
https://www.google.com/books/edition/Spartacus/qfmEfDsq-6IC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=most+slaves+in+sicily+eastern+mediterranean&pg=PA118&printsec=frontcover

The same is also true for Pompeii after 80BC.
Not aware for other regions.
2.) Enslavement of Thracians or Gauls does not necessarily imply this population was transplanted to Italy.

"And I have asked that question to myself: what about so many Gaul's that were enslaved or other people.
So I have not come up with an ideal answer..."

Here's what it tells me, Roman slaves were not a big impact on local genetics. "Eastern Mediterranean" (i.e. aegeans/anatolian-like) were a source population already present before Romans, at least partly brought by Greek Colonies.
 
No
The balkan paper is the delayed one
Next year thats what carles told me in email
The southern arc paper( which is the topic of this thread) i believe soon ( thats what erikl86 from anthrogenica said he was in david lecture in jerusalem)

Thanks for keeping us up to date.
 
I personally think that we have to wait and see before we can make up our minds or evaluate what's going on here. After the Southern Arc paper is published we don't need to speculate and can go straight for the info. With that being said, can we really absolutely rule out that the bias and worldview of the involved researchers don't affect the research? After all, scientists are human and have the same biases as everyone else. Besides, if you've read the interviews with several geneticists that I have read. And thus witnessed how they've used Ancient DNA findings to promote mass migration and open borders TODAY, then you'd started to become wary too. That's why I read the conclusions of researchers with caution. The thing is that apparently, scientists don't always go strictly by the raw and nacked data but at times they go only by their interpretation of the data.


Btw, Razib Khan who is from the scientific field seems to confirm my observation.


If you have a moment, I would appreciate a five-star (I may mention this on my podcast at some point, I don’t push this heavily).

I’ve been writing on this blog for 20 years. One sad trend is that a huge swath of academics are becoming incredibly conformist, censorious and ideologically motivated. Yes, this tendency was always there in a field like sociology, for example, but now it’s everywhere. The public doesn’t even know the tenth of it from what the stuff I hear. Just keep your skeptical hat on…

https://www.gnxp.com/WordPress/author/razib-khan/

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying that this is the case here. Perhaps we'll realize after these 3 papers from Havard come out that we needn't have worried about bias and agenda-driven research and that we made too much of that issue.
 
^^I can't seem to find that quote from him in the link.

*Nevermind, I see it in the open thread section.

Well, I wonder how he would feel about people saying that in relation to covid research. Which he was adamant about defending.

"Micro-chips dude!, 5G coming out of your ears"
 
Let's see what he has to say for my question, if he responds:

ABCh9Ec.png
 
I've never seen a paper be delayed like this. It's truly astonishing. It's been on the works for years, and now it's "hopefully" next year, meaning it may even be released in 2024 or beyond. Maybe because its authors know the conclusion is a pile of horse manure and they're trying to hide it? Harvard is trying its best to "disprove" all the "mUh aRyAn SumPremicAy" theories.

Honestly, the "anti-racists" are just as bad as the racists. Instead of letting reality just be reality, everyone wants history to "prove" or "disprove" something. Maybe people back then lived life without giving a shit about the political consequences of what happened 6,000 years later because someone discovered some of their bone fragments?

Is there anything left for the racists in what you call 'reality'? Everything that population genetics has shown in recent years destroys centuries of racist thinking.
 
A striking signal of steppe migration into the Southern Arc is evident in Armenia and northwest Iran where admixture with Yamnaya patrilineal descendants occurred, coinciding with their 3rd millennium BCE displacement from the steppe itself. This ancestry, pervasive across numerous sites of Armenia of ~2000-600 BCE, was diluted during the ensuing centuries to only a third of its peak value [Looking online, there’s a 2012 paper that indicates that modern Armenians have of the specifically Yamnaya R1b lineage. If this, true might explain why Armenian is so hard to place within a Indo-European tree, as Celtic, Germanic, Balto-Slavic and Indo-Iranian seem to come out of a broader Corded Ware cultural complex], making no further western inroads from there into any part of Anatolia, including the geographically adjacent Lake Van center of the Iron Age Kingdom of Urartu. The impermeability of Anatolia to exogenous migration contrasts with our finding that the Yamnaya had two distinct gene flows [David of Eurogenes does not like this, but this could mean Anatolian and CHG/Iranian pulses?], both from West Asia, suggesting that the Indo-Anatolian language family originated in the eastern wing of the Southern Arc and that the steppe served only as a secondary staging area of Indo-European language dispersal. The demographic significance of Anatolia on a Mediterranean-wide scale is further documented by our finding that following the Roman conquest, the Anatolian population remained stable and became the geographic source for much of the ancestry of Imperial Rome itself.

https://www.gnxp.com/WordPress/2022/06/19/new-david-reich-talk/

Here's an excerpt from his post on the David Reich lecture.
 
(Yes those numbers are hyperbolic according to historian 200,000 slaves rebelled in Sicily. That is a huge number and far away from reality.)

Actually I have done research about that. And I have asked that question to myself: what about so many Gaul's that were enslaved or other people.
So I have not come up with an ideal answer but I can say this:
1.) Regardless of how many Britons, Iberians or Gauls that were enslaved, in Sicily the slaves were overwhelmingly from Eastern Mediterranean. That's a historical fact.
the nationalities of the known world could be seen, but most of the slaves in Sicily had their origins in the eastern Mediterranean. The owner of slaves, in Roman antiquity, had complete power over them, even that of life and death
https://www.google.com/books/edition/Spartacus/qfmEfDsq-6IC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=most+slaves+in+sicily+eastern+mediterranean&pg=PA118&printsec=frontcover

The same is also true for Pompeii after 80BC.
Not aware for other regions.
2.) Enslavement of Thracians or Gauls does not necessarily imply this population was transplanted to Italy.

You've got to be kidding me. You're taking a quote from a book about the old movie on Spartacus starring Kirk Douglas? Did you notice that there's no citation for that quote?

Are you going to quote from picture books next?

Some of you people don't have the foggiest clue what constitutes actual scholarship.

You're going to have to go back on ignore until you can string together a logically cohesive statement.
 
Coon early on seemed to hold to a form of multi-regionalism which can be fit into what we know today but later on he came to the same form of multi-regionalism that Kossina held. His classifications are over at some sites the place where the majority of discussion takes place. For example, over at the Apricity, anytime I go to get a sense of what is being discussed (I am not a member so can't post), the Anthropology forum has like 1800 active members and Coon's classifications are like the 4 Gospels to a traditional Catholic or Eastern Orthodox person. On the other hand, the section for DNA Scientific papers may have 200 members. Of course in his pyramid, the English were the top of the food chain, the Germans and other Nordics were their close cousins. The Alpine, Mediterranean, Baltic, etc, etc. So in the USA, this is where the term elite WASP is used since the WASP viewed English language, literature, culture and physical phenotypes, etc as the standards that all other peoples are to be measured. Coon would be in my opinion more broadly categorized as a WASP-Nordicist.


If I recall, Coon was Jewish, so hardly a WASP. Apricity's "Bible" (Coon's "Races of Europe"), not surprisingly, shows an extensive (and favorable) study of Jews.

It's been decades, but I don't recall any "pyramid" or hierarchical tone whatsoever. Quite the opposite. As an older gentleman, I've been watching more and more of his work being slowly and steadily "proved" with modern genetics over the years. It's creepy, actually. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if this Reich paper vindicates more of Coon's work. Of particular interest is his old "Nordic genesis" theory and how it relates to IE.
 
If I recall, Coon was Jewish, so hardly a WASP. Apricity's "Bible" (Coon's "Races of Europe"), not surprisingly, shows an extensive (and favorable) study of Jews.

It's been decades, but I don't recall any "pyramid" or hierarchical tone whatsoever. Quite the opposite. As an older gentleman, I've been watching more and more of his work being slowly and steadily "proved" with modern genetics over the years. It's creepy, actually. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if this Reich paper vindicates more of Coon's work. Of particular interest is his old "Nordic genesis" theory and how it relates to IE.

Coon was Cornish American so WASP enough.
His "Races of Europe" is a dog's breakfast especially linking Indo-European languages to the long-headed Nordic phenotype.

Even Lawrence Angel was more accurate when he named a Nordic-Iranian type as ONE component of a heterogenous Indo-European cluster among the ancient Greeks, his main focus of study.
 
Coon was Cornish American so WASP enough.
His "Races of Europe" is a dog's breakfast especially linking Indo-European languages to the long-headed Nordic phenotype.

Even Lawrence Angel was more accurate when he named a Nordic-Iranian type as ONE component of a heterogenous Indo-European cluster among the ancient Greeks, his main focus of study.

I thought he was Jewish as well. Anyway, "Iranian" is what I was getting at since, supposedly, that was one of the key progenitors that ended up on the step and was associated with the "Corded" type.
 

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