Macedonians

: "...he(Philip II) is not only no Greek, nor related to the Greeks, but not even a barbarian from any place that can be named with honour, but a pestilent knave from Macedonia, whence it was never yet possible to buy a decent slave."

Demosthenes- Third Philippic 31


So Laberia what is Philippos?

3rd anti-Philippic 31
εἰ δέ γε δοῦλος ἢ ὑποβολιμαῖος τὰ μὴ προσήκοντ᾽ ἀπώλλυε καὶ ἐλυμαίνετο, Ἡράκλεις ὅσῳ μᾶλλον δεινὸν καὶ ὀργῆς ἄξιον πάντες ἂν ἔφησαν εἶναι. ἀλλ᾽ οὐχ ὑπὲρ Φιλίππου καὶ ὧν ἐκεῖνος πράττει νῦν, οὐχ οὕτως ἔχουσιν, οὐ μόνον οὐχ Ἕλληνος ὄντος οὐδὲ προσήκοντος οὐδὲν τοῖς Ἕλλησιν, ἀλλ᾽ οὐδὲ βαρβάρου ἐντεῦθεν ὅθεν καλὸν εἰπεῖν, ἀλλ᾽ ὀλέθρου Μακεδόνος, ὅθεν οὐδ᾽ ἀνδράποδον σπουδαῖον οὐδὲν ἦν πρότερον πρίασθαι.

He is not a Hellenas
He is not Barbarian
THEN ?

Just like you, Using Demosthenes words
for member Laberia is not Albanian, nor related to Albanians, but not even a European from any place that be named with Honoue, but a pestilent knave from ???? , whence ......
 
:LOL:
Like every important Historian's statement is different than Greeks...
Like Lecture by Prof.Kenneth W.Harl "The World of Early Macedon" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsqyzECK7xs
Like Eugene Borza View attachment 11038
Arthur de Cobineau View attachment 11039
Even your Metropolite of Florina Augustinos Kandiotis View attachment 11040
British Historian Marko Attila Hoare View attachment 11041

First understand what Kantiotis of Florina say,
He speaks about civil war after WW2
the demand of Communists to create a Communistic Makedonia,
treaty of Bled 1947,
what is today slavo-Makedonia is after the negative stance of Aromani of krusevo, and generaaly all Priliaps not enter under Serbian or Bulgarian identity,,

As for Borza or Kenneth, etc
I prefer Strabo, herodotos, EVEN THE PERSIAN, AND DEMOSTHENS the anti-Philipikos retor.

For as Demosthenes says,
Makedonians are not Hellenes
Makedonians are not barbarians

bye from a Yauna Takabara
 
Slavs are indigenous in the Balkans
Author: Mario Alinei
Source: Origini delle lingue d�Europa, Vol. I: La teoria d

Here are some excerpts of Dr. Mario Alinei’s study concerning the Slavic populations in the Balkans. It is congruent with Dr.Florin Curta’s conclusions about the invention of the “arrival of the Slavs in the Balkans”.
“I have to commence by clearing away one of the most absurd consequences of the traditional chronology, namely, that of the ‘arrival’ of the Slavs into the immense area in which they now live. The only logical conclusion can be that the southern branch of the Slavs is the oldest and that from it developed the Slavic western and eastern branches in a differing manner and perhaps at different times.”
“Today only a minority of experts support the theory of a late migration for the Slavs… because none of the variant versions of such late settlement answers the question of what crucial factor could possibly have enabled the Slavs to have left their Bronze-Age firesides to become the dominant peoples of Europe. The southwestern portion of the Slavs had always bordered on the Italic people in Dalmatia, as well as in the areas of the eastern Alps and in the Po lowlands.”
“The surmised ‘Slavic migration’ is full of inconsistencies. There is no ‘northern Slavic language’, it is rather only a variant of the southern Slavic… The first metallurgic cultures in the Balkans are Slavic… and connected with Anatolia… Slavic presence in the territory, nearly identical to the one occupied by them today, exists ever since the Stone Age… The Slavs have (together with the Greeks and other Balkan peoples developed agriculture… agriculturally mixed economy, typically European, which later enabled the birth of the Greek, Etruscan, and Latin urbanism. Germanic peoples adopted agriculture from the Slavs… The Balkans is one of the rare regions in which a real and true settlement of human groups coming from Anatolia is proven…].
REFERENCES
Mario Alinei, Origini delle lingue d�Europa, Vol. I: La teoria della continuit�, Il Mulino, Bologna, 1996;

Vol. II: La continuit� delle principali aree etnolinguistiche dal Mesolitico all�et� del Ferro, Il Mulino, Bologna, 2000.
BIOGRAPHY
Mario Alinei is Professor Emeritus at the University of Utrecht, where he taught from 1959 to 1987.
Founder and editor of “Quaderni di semantica” review.
He is president of “Atlas Linguarum Europae”.
 
:LOL:

First understand what Kantiotis of Florina say,
He speaks about civil war after WW2
the demand of Communists to create a Communistic Makedonia,
treaty of Bled 1947,
what is today slavo-Makedonia is after the negative stance of Aromani of krusevo, and generaaly all Priliaps not enter under Serbian or Bulgarian identity,,

As for Borza or Kenneth, etc
I prefer Strabo, herodotos, EVEN THE PERSIAN, AND DEMOSTHENS the anti-Philipikos retor.

For as Demosthenes says,
Makedonians are not Hellenes
Makedonians are not barbarians

bye from a Yauna Takabara

[h=1]Isocrates – Letter to Phillip II of Macedon, 4th Century BC!t[/h]
Isocrates was an Attic orator who lived during the 4th century BC, and was a contemporary of Phillip II of Macedon and Demosthenes, another Attic orator. Demosthenes was vehemently opposed to Phillip and Macedonia, as he saw the true intention of the Macedonians and their desire to subjugate the Hellenic city-states and their people. Isocrates, on the other hand, unwittingly thought it more beneficial to the Hellenes if Phillip could be persuaded to treat them as friends. As a result of Macedonian royalty claiming descent from a god (Heracles, no less), a fiction that originates from Herodotus’ story about Alexander ‘Philhellene’ and the Olympic games, Isocrates appealed to the supposed ‘Hellenic’ descent of Phillip, stroking the Macedonian’s ego, who was being likened to a god by this opportunistic old fool.
Here is an example of Isocrates’ false hopes, naivety and flattery:
Quote:
…..you and you alone had been granted by fortune free scope both to send ambassadors to whom ever you desire and to receive them from whom ever you please, and to say whatever you think expedient; and that, besides, you, beyond any of the Hellenes, were possessed of both wealth and power…..(15-6)

In the same paragraph, Isocrates goes on to say that persuasion will be helpful in dealing with the Hellenes, clearly hoping to appeal to Phillip’s ‘better’ side, in the hope that the Hellenes will be treated mercifully. Despite the fact that Philip had no genuine interest in ‘Panhellenism’, Isocrates foolishly believed that, were he to draw some apparent ‘ancestral’ links wrapped up in a flattering mythology between the founder of his race (Heracles) and the people (Hellenes) he was preparing to attack, Phillip would listen to reason. The following text being a perfect example:
Quote:
I affirm that, without neglecting any of your own interests, you ought to make an effort to reconcile Argos and Lacedaemon and Thebes and Athens; for if you can bring these cities together, you will not find it hard to unite the others as well………..Argos is the land of your fathers, and is entitled to as much consideration at your hands as are your own ancestors; the Thebans honour the founder of your race, both by processionals and by sacrifices, beyond all the other gods; the Lacedaemonians have conferred upon his descendants the kingship and the power of command for all time……….Athens single-handedsustained the greatest dangers against the power of Eurystheus, put an end to his insolence, and freed Heracles’ sons from the fears by which they were continually beset. Because of these services we deserve the gratitude, not only of those who then were preserved from destruction, but also of those who are now living………(30-5)

Quote:
…among all the Hellenes you shall stand forth as a statesman who has worked for the good of Hellas. (140)

Unfortunately, Isocrates doesn’t seem to realise that he is giving Phillip all the more confidence to subjugate the Hellenes, and an idea of what is required to meet that objective.
Quote:
I think that she will join forces with you in carrying out your policy, especially if she can be made to see that your object is to prepare for the campaign against the barbarians.(56)

Phillip and his son Alexander would often pull out the ‘revenge at Persia’ card when it suited them, as they did with their mythological ‘ancestry’, but few Hellenes of their day were naive enough to believe the Macedonian kings.
Quote:
if you fall short of your expectations you will at any rate win the good will of all the Hellenes–which is a better thing to gain than to take by force many Hellenic cities; for achievements of the latter kind entail envy and hostility and much opprobrium, but that which I have urged entails none of these things……. (67-8)

Phillip, Alexander and subsequent Macedonian kings did the exact opposite of what Isocrates was begging for, as is clearly evidenced throughout ancient history. And the flattery continued:
Quote:
…..Men of the highest renown will come as ambassadors from the greatest states to your court; you will advise with them about the general welfare, for which no other man will be found to have shown a like concern; you will see all Hellas on tiptoe with interest in whatever you happen to propose; and no one will be indifferent to the measures which are being decided in your councils….(69-70)

How utterly sweet, all Hellas will be on tiptoe for what Isocrates fancifully describes as a lover of Hellas and one of the blood of Hellas. As it turned out, the Hellenes were on tiptoe while fleeing from imminent death at the hands of the Macedonian soldiers of Phillip, as was the case during the historic Macedonian victory over the Hellenes at Chaeronea and the subsequent subjugation of the Hellenic city-states.


Quote:
…….it is your privilege, as one who has been blessed with untrammelled freedom, to consider all Hellas your fatherland, as did the founder of your race……..it will be found that I turned to Athens first of all and endeavoured to win her over to this cause with all the earnestness of which my nature is capable, but when I perceived that she cared less for what I said than for the ravings of the platform orators, I gave her up, although I did not abandon my efforts. (127-9)

Of course Phillip was blessed with untrammelled freedom, he was the king of Macedonia, the most powerful state in Europe at the time. And the underlined text highlights Isocrates’ motive for turning to Phillip – His own countrymen did not want to listen to him or his advice, which proved to be entirely inaccurate in any case. Demosthenes was not alone, and his words are reflective of the thoughts of the overwhelming mass of Hellenes during the reign of the Macedonians. Few actually bought the story that the Macedonian kings were ‘Hellenes’, as Demosthenes indicated in his verbal attack against Phillip:


Isocrates speaks against the majority Hellenes represented by Demosthenes, calling their very real concerns about Phillip’s true (and ultimate) intentions mere rubbish, as indicated in the following text:
Quote:
I observe that you are being painted in false colours by men who are jealous of you……..they keep talking about your power, representing that it is being built up, not in behalf of Hellas, but against her, that you have for a long time been plotting against us all………By speaking this rubbish……..(73-76)

Phillip was plotting against the Hellenes and he did succeed in subjugating them.
Isocrates’ views of Macedonia and the Macedonian people are markedly different from that of the Macedonian kings.
Quote:
More than that, he has about him the ablest men in Macedonia, who, however inexperienced they may be in other matters, are likely to know better than you do what is expedient for him. Furthermore, you will find that there are many Hellenes living in his country, who are not unknown to fame or lacking in intelligence, but men by sharing whose counsel he has not diminished his kingdom but has, on the contrary, accomplished deeds which match his dreams. (19)

A clear distinction is made between the (ablest) men in Macedonia on the one hand, and the Hellenes living in Phillip’s country (as colonists) on the other.
Quote:
And mark that I am summoning you to an undertaking in which you will make expeditions, not with the barbarians against men who have given you no just cause, but with the Hellenes against those upon whom it is fitting that the descendants of Heracles should wage war. (115)

The above is clearly in reference to Phillip and his barbarians (Macedonians) making expeditions against the Hellenes.
Quote:
………………….And the founder of your empire……held entirely aloof from Hellenic territory, and set his heart upon occupying the throne of Macedon…….he alone among the Hellenes did not claim the right to rule over a people of kindred race, he alone was able to escape the perils incident to one-man power. (106-8)

Macedonia was entirely aloof from Hellenic territory. That cannot be disputed. Below is another clear distinction between Macedonians and Hellenes.
Quote:
It remains, then, to summarize what I have said in this discourse, in order that you may see in the smallest compass the substance of my counsels. I assert that it is incumbent upon you to work for the good of the Hellenes, to reign as king over the Macedonians, and to extend your power over the greatest possible number of the barbarians. For if you do these things, all men will be grateful to you: the Hellenes for your kindness to them; the Macedonians if you reign over them, not like a tyrant, but like a king; and the rest of the nations, if by your hands they are delivered from barbaric despotism and are brought under the protection of Hellas. (154)

In addition to Herodotus’ story, Isocrates had also allowed for the ‘Hellenic’ appellation to be attached to the Macedonian kings through other means, which could basically apply to any person of the time that had acquired an Attic education and/or had an appreciation for certain cultural characteristics of the Hellenes. Indeed, the Hellenes were no longer even a race, as stated in his Panegyricus:
Quote:
And so far has our city distanced the rest of mankind in thought and in speech that her pupils have become the teachers of the rest of the world; and she has brought it about that the name Hellenes suggests no longer a race but an intelligence, and that the title Hellenes is applied rather to those who share our culture than to those who share a common blood. (50)

The basis for Phillip’s false ‘Hellenic’ origins (as proposed by Isocrates) are exposed in several ways, and do not go unnoticed by later scholars that have studied his works. Those that have assessed Isocrates’ works agree that it is little more than flattery and false hope. Peter Green states the following:
Quote:
“taken as a whole the Address to Philip must have caused its recipient considerable sardonic amusement……..Its ethnic conceit was only equalled by its naivety……….though Philip did not give a fig for Panhellenism as an idea, he at once saw how it could be turned into highly effective camouflage (a notion which his son subsequently took over ready-made). Isocrates had, unwittingly, supplied him with the propaganda-line he needed. From now on he merely had to clothe his Macedonian ambitions in a suitable Panhellenic dress.”

Pierre Jouguet states the following:
Quote:
“So little do the Macedonians seem to have belonged to the Hellenic community at the beginning, that they did not take part in the great Games of Greece, and when the Kings of Macedon were admitted to them, it was not as Macedonians, but as Heraclids. Isocrates, in the ‘Philip’ praises them for not having imposed their kingship on the Hellenes, to whom the kingship is always oppressive, and for having gone among foreigners to establish it. He, therefore, did not regard the Macedonians as Greeks.”

Ulrich Wilcken wrote:
Quote:
“When Philip read the book, the insistence of his descent from Heracles must have been welcome to him; for in his policy he had to stress this mythical derivation, as the types of Heracles on his coins show. But on the other hand he must have smiled at the naiveté shown by Isocrates”

In conclusion, it is critical to cite the words of Pausanias:
Quote:

On a pillar is a statue of Isocrates, whose memory is remarkable for three things: his diligence in continuing to teach to the end of his ninety-eight years, his self-restraint in keeping aloof from politics and from interfering with public affairs, and his love of liberty in dying a voluntary death, distressed at the news of the battle at Chaeronea (1.18.8).

Everything that Isocrates thought Phillip was turned out to be false, and everything he dreaded came true. He died as a result of Phillip going against his wishes and destroying the liberty of the Hellenes. Pausanias confirms it several times:
Quote:
I have already said in my history of Attica that the defeat at Chaeronea was a disaster for all the Greeks (Hellenes)………..(9.6.5).

It is abundantly clear, the Macedonians were never Hellenes.
 
And occupation still goes...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05TyPWI6A8o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9TVQpxdvS4
The following video shows Macedonians running away from Aegean Macedonia, trying to escape from the bombardment and retaliation from the government forces, after they won the civil war against the Democratic Army of Greece.
The official Greek position on this is that the communists have abducted these GREEK children and spread them through communist countries in order to brainwash them, and then return them to Greece (probably to start a communist revolution). However, the TESTIMONIES of these people, and some of them are still very much alive, say quite the opposite: that they were running away from the bombs coming from the party that won the Greek Civil War.
Today, 60 years after the exodus of the Macedonians and 20 years since the fall of the communist regimes in Europe, Greece is still “afraid” to let the refugees back home. These people, or their children, are still forbidden to enter Greece and reclaim their land, unless they declare themselves as “Greek by genus” – which is an example of the racist laws implemented in Greece, or a form of an ethnic genocide, something we often saw during the wars in some other Balkan countries.
This is what Nazi Germany did to the Jews, this is what Fascist Greece did towards the Macedonians.
Nazi Germany paid for their wrongdoings will Greece pay?


CHRIS STEFOU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrWNWVNJMOg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8oW_hcNyZc



As the Irish patriot Roger Casement (executed by the British after the 1916 uprising in Ireland) put it:
“I know of two tragic histories in the world – that of Ireland and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.”
Casement was speaking primarily of the Macedonians who then inhabited the lands that fell within the borders of the ancient Macedonian homeland.


 
And occupation still goes...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05TyPWI6A8o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9TVQpxdvS4
The following video shows Macedonians running away from Aegean Macedonia, trying to escape from the bombardment and retaliation from the government forces, after they won the civil war against the Democratic Army of Greece.
The official Greek position on this is that the communists have abducted these GREEK children and spread them through communist countries in order to brainwash them, and then return them to Greece (probably to start a communist revolution). However, the TESTIMONIES of these people, and some of them are still very much alive, say quite the opposite: that they were running away from the bombs coming from the party that won the Greek Civil War.
Today, 60 years after the exodus of the Macedonians and 20 years since the fall of the communist regimes in Europe, Greece is still “afraid” to let the refugees back home. These people, or their children, are still forbidden to enter Greece and reclaim their land, unless they declare themselves as “Greek by genus” – which is an example of the racist laws implemented in Greece, or a form of an ethnic genocide, something we often saw during the wars in some other Balkan countries.
This is what Nazi Germany did to the Jews, this is what Fascist Greece did towards the Macedonians.
Nazi Germany paid for their wrongdoings will Greece pay?


CHRIS STEFOU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrWNWVNJMOg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8oW_hcNyZc



As the Irish patriot Roger Casement (executed by the British after the 1916 uprising in Ireland) put it:
“I know of two tragic histories in the world – that of Ireland and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.”
Casement was speaking primarily of the Macedonians who then inhabited the lands that fell within the borders of the ancient Macedonian homeland.



That is why the Communists send Greek children at Poland and at Taskende Uzbekistan?
cause they were 'Makedonians'?

come on, sending children from Makedonia at 7th block at taskend Uzbekistan was the desire of a 'Makedonian'?

Or a fully organised crime by Communists
Stalin is no different than Hitler,
and Tito in order to worship him for his great Yugoslavia, he himshelf destroy the country he made after 1974
Tito wanted people to remember him as great man, so he himshelf, created Makedonia, Kossovo, etc etc
he made Yugoslvia great, he destroy Yugoslavia.
 
[h=1]The charter of Alexander The Macedonian, found in the book by Orbini, 1601![/h]View attachment 11053
Title page of the book by Mauro Orbini from 1601.
THE CHARTER OF ALEXANDER THE MACEDONIAN
“WE, ALEXANDER, son of Phillip, King of Macedonia, Prince of the Monarchy, appointed as a creator of Greek empire, from Nataban announced as the child of the great Zeus, ruler of the Augusts, and of Bramans and of Arbonites, from sunrise to sunset, from south up until north, to the noble nation of Slavs we wish kindness, peace and health. We and our followers who will succeed us in ruling the world, because you have been consistent in faith, valiant in fights and our leaders and heroic fighters, we apportion you and freely donate you forever this whole part of the land, to North up until southern borders with Italy; and with such right, which nobody but you, must not stay long here; nor inhabit, nor live there. If, however, anyone stays longer here, may he become your slave, and his children, slaves to your children.
This Privilege is given in the new city of Alexandria, whom we created by the great Nile river, in the twelfth year of our ruling, under protection of the great god Zeus and Mars, Pluto and goddess Athens. Witnesses to this act are the noble Athleta, our treasurer, together with the other eleven princes whom we have appointed, after our death, as our general successors, considering the fact that we haven’t got any children.”
From the book “The Kingdom of the Slavs” by Mauro Orbini, published in 1601, in Pezaro.
This is Alexanders legacy to his people, the Macedonians, who became Glorious, and hence forth were also kown as the Slavjani(Slavs).


Also page 69:

In a Carigrad library, the Charter of Privileges was preserved by Alexander the Great,
in the twelfth year of his government, he divided the Illyrians, that is, the noble line of the Slavs. This becomes completely
it is understandable if we take into account that the Macedonians of Alexander the Great were actually Slavs, they spoke the same
the language spoken by the inhabitants of Macedonia today. In general, the Macedonians, Thracians and Moesi speak the same,
Slavic language. Alexander the Great is considered by many to be Greeks, but unjustified. The reason for that is misleading
is that the Greeks, fighting with the peoples of the East, were the most famous people of the then Europe, just like
today the Greeks and the Turks believe that all European Catholic nations are French. However, the Moscow Anali explicitly
confirm that the Russians, or Moskvits, were the same language as the ancient Macedonians, who, among others
countries, ruled Egypt 276 years ago.
 
he town of Agria situated in Dakia was founded (according to Bonfinio in the 1st book of 1 Dec.) by these Agrians who lived (according to Stephan the Byzantine) in the areas between the mountains Emos and Rodopies, near Macedonia. Macedonia however, was continually colonized by the Slavic nation and new-comers from Tyre, even though some thought that the Macedonians belonged to the society of the Greeks. To oppose them, I bring the opinion of Stephan the Byzantine about Alexander the Macedonian, who very clearly differs the language of the Macedonians from the language of the Greeks.
From this it can be clearly seen that Macedonian speech couldn’t be understood by all participants of Alexander’s army, because a great part of it consisted of Greeks.And truly, when Alexander told to Philota, the son of Parmenion, who wanted to expound his personal matter to the crowds: “The Macedonians oh, Philota, will condemn you; therefore I ask you, will you address them on your maternal language”, and Philota refused to do so, because he would not be understood by all. Then Alexander stated that Philota hated his maternal language.
MACEDONIANS ARE NOT GREEKS
So, if Macedonians were Greeks, why would Philota refuse to speak Greek in front of the Greeks? And even more, having in mind that he did not have more appropriate language than the Greek, supposedly if Macedonians were Greeks. Because (as Plinius says it, book VII, chapter 57) the passive willingness of the people was the first reason for the usage of the Ionian literacy. So, the maternal language of the Macedonians, which differs from the one we think was the general language of the whole army of Alexander, clearly shows that the Macedonians do not belong to the Greeks; as it is known, out of the ancient unity of the language, the unity of the nationality is confirmed as well. According to it, when distinguishing the languages at Nembrot, none of the authors confirmed anything opposite; The Greeks through their language do not draw near to the Macedonians; and we have shown enough, based upon the mere difference between the languages, that the Macedonians are not Greeks; then based upon the words of Phillip of Bergamo, we must admit that the Macedonians from all times, up until nowadays have got a Slavic language. Well, what would you think about Tukidid, who by joining Byzantium and Pula, a large part of Trakia and Mezia, and the whole Iliricum, all of these countries calls Macedonia? It would be the same as if he had said: I reckon that Trakia, Mezia and Iliricum must not be separated from the Macedonians. Therefore, I don’t doubt that the Trakians, Mezians and Ilircs are bound together with Macedonians. A witness to that is the title of Alexander the Macedonian presenting him as the King of the Macedonians and Greeks. Much stronger witnesses are the basic differences in the customs and lifestyle between the Macedonians and Greeks allowing me to be easily convinced that there are different traditions and customs even among people of the same kindred. That is why, according to the telling of K. Kurtius, when Diosip of Athens had to fight chest to chest against Horata the Macedonian, there were some Greeks among Alexander’s soldiers who supported Diosip; but if Macedonians had been Greeks, why didn’t the Greeks give the same treatment to Horata the Macedonian, as they supported Diosip only because he was a Greek? Therefore, if sometimes mostly among the Barbarians, there is a saying that Alexander was Greek, it’s because they were most familiar with the Greeks, because of their past wars against the nations of East; therefore they considered all nations on West to be Greeks; something similar is happening nowadays, when Greeks together with Turks and all other nations from East consider all catholic nations to be Franks.
Jeremiah Ruso in “The Chronicles of Moscovia” clearly states that the Russians, meaning the Moscowians had the same language as the ancient Macedonians; and King Phillip, the father of Alexander the Macedonian was born among them, who (as Plutarch in “The life of Alexander”, Yustin in VIIIth book and Sabelik in the III book of “Eneida”, and others tell us) submitted the strongest towns in Greece under his laws, enslaved Greece (who until then had freedom) and through his glorious deeds reached the greatness of the most famous kings. His son Alexander the Macedonian expanded through the boundaries of the earth (according to the First book of Macabians, chapter 1), took the treasures of many people, even making the earth numb. After Alexander’s death, Macedonians governed all nations in the world as well as the Egyptians for 276 years” says Mauro Orbini.
From the book “The Kingdom of the Slavs” by Mauro Orbini, published in 1601, in Pezaro, page 168 – 171.
 
The Close Racial Kinship Between the Greeks, Bulgarians, and Turks: Macedonia and Thrace By Dr. George Nakratzas
Click here to read the book
The book is in the PDF-format so you will need a PDF-reader, I suggest that you download Adobe Reader from http://www.adobe.com/

Here is the preface of the book:
PREFACE TO THE THIRD EDITION
The sole purpose of the first edition of this book was to give young Greeks another version of the origins of the modern Greek people, a rather different version, that runs counter to what has been taught in Greek schools for decades.
As the overtones of the modern Greek nationalist mythology gradually came into focus, culminating in such nationalist clichés as the assertion that ‘the Greek nation has no kin’, that the ‘Skopjans’ are ‘Gypsies’, or that the (Former Yugoslav) Republic of Macedonia is an ‘ethnic hotchpotch’, I was taken aback, and eventually got down to writing this, the third edition.
My hopes of doing what I could to set up an opposing force to this rampant nationalism have not been entirely in vain, considering that something like 3,000 copies have been sold all over the country. For a book of this nature, this is quite an achievement.
Viewed in the light of the general situation in Europe, Greece’s present foreign policy has shown that the country’s modern ideological armour is still very much the product of a nationalist upbringing, the roots of which go back to somewhere around the beginning of the nineteenth century. But the nation will never find its way in the European Union carrying this sort of ideological baggage.
One of the cornerstones of this ideology is the unrealistic theory that the modem Greeks, expressing as they do the enduring nature of the Greek language, are the biological descendants of the ancient Greeks. It was concocted in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries to serve as an ideological arsenal in the efforts to create a modern Greek nation in view of the impending collapse of the feudal, theocratic Ottoman Empire. The philosophical challenge to theocracy as a social model of governance first emerged, together with the concept of human rights, in north-western Europe in the sixteenth century, the century of philosophical humanism that produced Erasmus, Shakespeare, and other great thinkers. In Greece, 400 years after the theocratic beliefs of the Middle Ages were first challenged (in 1967, to be precise), there was still talk of ‘the Greece of Greek Christians’; and even today we hear a great deal about ‘Greek Orthodox culture’ — a culture that has never in fact existed as such, being known rather as ‘Orthodox Eastern Roman culture’.
This country’s cultural backwardness has been starkly underlined by the efforts of modern Greek society to use the institution of the European City of Culture (Thessaloniki in 1997) to vaunt the mediaeval ideal of the Orthodox Eastern Roman culture of Mount Athos, not only as a historical and cultural facet of the multiethnic Byzantine Empire, but also as a ‘Greek’ national and religious heritage. These efforts may even have been subsidised by the European Union, at a time when sixty per cent of the population of the Netherlands, one of the most religious countries in Europe, have officially rejected any form of religious doctrine.
A large segment of modern Greek society, which has never really embarked upon the process of ideological modernisation, oscillates desperately between modernism and Greek Orthodox fundamentalism, displaying an inherent inability to make any sort of ideological distinction between the terms ‘race’, nationality’, and ‘cultural or ethnic identity’. Apart from the fact that even well-respected journalists are engaged in daily attempts to convince the younger generation that we are directly descended from ‘our ancient forebears’, views that go against the theory of ‘one race, one religion, one nation’ are regarded as nationally reprehensible. It is on this theory that most Greeks base their belief that there are no minorities in our country, apart from the ‘Greek Moslems’ of Western Thrace. Greek citizens who have publicly proclaimed that they do not feel like Greeks but like ethnic Macedonians or ethnic Turks have been pursued and convicted by Greek justice, which just goes to show that modem Greek society not only fails to show the necessary respect for what is different, but cannot even tolerate it. And, being in the grip of a virulent Hellenocentric egomania, this same society, while denying Greek citizens the right to any ethnic identity other than Greek, constantly exhorts Greeks living in other countries to preserve their Greek ethnic identity.
Personally, I couldn’t care less what race the citizens of modern Greece belong to; the only purpose of this book is to show, and substantiate with written documentation, how rotten and historically untenable obsessive nationalism is, in the hope of infusing as many young people as possible with respect for the right to self-determination of every Greek citizen and every ethnic group that calls itself a minority, as long as the country’s laws and territorial integrity are respected.
 
Macedonians changed to Bulgarians in census records!

Here is an explanation to why there are no Macedonians in Bulgaria.
Official documents are being altered without the consent of the individual whom it affects.
View attachment 11054
An explanation to the document;
in column marked #5 you can read the following information about the person:
А – Basic Education
Б – Nationality
В – Citizenship
It is easy to see that every person has been entered as Macedonian in the “Б – Nationality” field, that has later been replaced with Bulgarian written with a red pen.



ALSO
Here is a text describing how the Bulgarians tried to assimilate the Macedonians during their occupation of Macedonia in World War II.
THE BULGARIAN AUTHORITES ATTEMPT TO FINALLY ASSIMILATE THE POPULATION.
Before the end of October 1941, the Bulgarian Municipal authorites sent Officials to the village from the Municipal and District capital – Prilep to conduct a census of the whole population.
The Officials had printed documents with them, were they entered the inhabitants of the village. The documents had all necissary paragraphs to enter the exact evidence (year of birth, place, gender, occupation, education) and finally there was a special paragraph which said “political affiliaton” and “nationality”.

The Officials put their hardest effort on the final paragraph in the census. They asked the people what nationality they are – Serbs or Bulgarians, but Macedonians were not at all mentioned.
Before the Officials began to assimilate the Macedonian population they held a short clarifying speech, in which they said that this people is Bulgarian “in origin” and needs to sign as that and further in the Bulgarian books as evidence.
That speech even more upset the villagers who told them that in this village there are no Serbs neither Bulgarians but only Macedonians. They asked the Officials if they could sign as Macedonian under the paragraph “nationality” in the census.

One of the Policemen tried to explaine to the villagers that Bulgarian and Macedonian are the same; that it has no relevance for the document, which is only a Record which will be in a archive.
The villagers forced the Officials and the Policemen to let them sign as “Macedonian” under the paragraph “nationality”.

Thus in the census Aleksandar S… entered him and his family as Macedonian, and after him followed the other villagers: Vanche S…, Vasil V…, Trajko M…, Dushan M…, Aleksa V…, Jovan S…, Tode V…, Nikola P…, Nikola Z…, and other villagers.
This open statement by the villagers against the Bulgarian assimilation made the Bulgarian Municipal authorities revolt and seek thru the District capital for a village leader from somewhere else to be sent to the village who is a Bulgarian and can help Bulgaria, but in the village of ….. there is noone who claims to be a pure Bulgarian. This was told to them by the villagers from their Municipal village leader Nikola K… on the conference where the new village leader Ilija L… from ….. was announced by a decree.
 
Greek scholar Evangelos Kofos recognizes People’s Republic of Macedonia in his book “Nationalism And Communism In Macedonia” from 1964.
Thus Greece had no problem with our name containing the word Macedonia or even “Republic of Macedonia”.
View attachment 11055 View attachment 11056 View attachment 11057 View attachment 11058


So after this propaganda from 1981, they have ISSUE...
On October 1981 national elections in Greece, PASOK (The Panhellenic Socialist Movement, a centre-left political party) won a landslide victory with 48% of the votes, capturing 173 seats in the Greek Parliament. One of the first things on this new government’s agenda was to initiate a campaign to force the population into believing that there is no Macedonian nation and to generally remove the term Macedonia or Macedonians from use. This is the document they issued to that affect.View attachment 11059


Translation into English:
HELENIC REPUBLIC Top Secret
MINISTRY OF PUBLIC SECURITY
NATIONAL SECURITY SERVICE
Athens, 16th February, 1982

Number of protocol 6502/7-3042?
INTRODUCTION
a) The Skopians’ activities for the autonomy of Macedonia may be efficiently confronted mainly by wiping out the use of the idiom, in the regions near the borders. This opinion is based on the realizations that also other regions that in older times were center of “Macedonism”, like Kastoria, are no hit by the Skopian propaganda, because there the use of the idiom has been almost wiped out.
b) This element by itself would be enough to exclude any thoughts of repatriation of the P/R (political refugees) who now reside in Yugoslavia and who have been brought up with the “Macedonian idea”, the “Macedonian language and culture”, independently of their participation or not to the organizations SNOF, NOF and activities take for detaching Greek territories during the period 1946-1949
c) As for evidence it is imperative to:
a. The creation of a state institution that will depend from the Prefectures of the regions near the borders, lined with the suitable and specially trained to the “Plot against Macedonia” subject, personnel. This institution will engage itself only with this subject, with the supervision of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and will collaborate closely, but in secret with the Security Authorities and all the Public Services (Tax office, Schools, Army, Church, etc)
b. In the public services and especially in the educational institutions the employees who will be in service have to be ignorant of the local idiom.
c. The establishment of special enlightenment seminaries, for all the public service employees and the clergy who are in service in the sensitive region of Macedonia.
d. The establishment of motivations for the obligatory residence of the public servants and other employees, in the quarters of their service (example: payment of the rent, extra pay, etc.)
e. Establishment of the Cultural Association, like “ARISTOTELIS” in Florina and economic help to them, for the realization of events and the publishing of books, newspapers, magazines, etc. And afterwards these will be sent to the Diaspora abroad who has origins from the regions of the senders. This will boost their national sentiment and they will be protected from the anti-Hellenic propaganda that is been practiced by S/M (Slavmacedonians) organizations.
f. Insertion of various obstacles (non-recognition of diplomats, postponement of military service, etc.) for the Greek students who wish to study in Skopje.
g. Marking in each village of persons who due to their kin bounds and their personality influence a large circle of co-villagers and with any means (even with money payments) get close to them and use them properly so they will behave as the fighters of the use of the idiom in their circle. To this direction a very positive and effective role can be that of the Youngerss of the political parties, by the judgement and coordination of the Government, when a between parties agreement will be reached.
h. Recruitment in the Armed Forces, in Police Bodies in the public services and Organisations of employees with origins from Florina region, by exception, and their obligatory location in other areas of the country.
i. The encouragement, by the leadership of the Army of meetings and marriages of Army officers, who are on duty, there and have origins abroad, with women that speak the idiom.
THE CHIEF DIMITRIS KAPELARIS ANT/GOS
 
@ Ragnaro no 1

man,

what are talking about

You used Isokrates,
and created fictional results,

WHY you do nost this from Isokrates

Ἄργος μὲν γάρ ἐστίν σοι πατρὶς, ἧς δίκαιον τοσαύτην σε ποιεῖσθαι πρόνοιαν ὅσην περ τῶν γονέων τῶν σαυτοῦ· Θηβαῖοι δὲ τὸν ἀρχηγὸν τοῦ γένους ὑμῶν τιμῶσιν καὶ ταῖς προσόδοις καὶ ταῖς θυσίαις μᾶλλον ἢ τοὺς θεοὺς τοὺς ἄλλους· [33] Λακεδαιμόνιοι δὲ τοῖς ἀπ᾽ ἐκείνου γεγονόσιν καὶ τὴν βασιλείαν καὶ τὴν ἡγεμονίαν εἰς ἅπαντα τὸν χρόνον δεδώκασιν· τὴν δὲ πόλιν τὴν ἡμετέραν φασὶν, οἷσπερ περὶ τῶν παλαιῶν πιστεύομεν, Ἡρακλεῖ μὲν συναιτίαν γενέσθαι τῆς ἀθανασίας —ὃν δὲ τρόπον, σοὶ μὲν αὖθις πυθέσθαι ῥᾴδιον, ἐμοὶ δὲ νῦν εἰπεῖν οὐ καιρός— τοῖς δὲ παισὶ τοῖς ἐκείνου τῆς σωτηρίας..


So enough with paraphrasing ancients wrong way,
Here as you see Isokrates not only admits,
BUT MAKES A HYMN ON THE GREEK HERITAGE OF MAKEDONIANS


and the question now is
was Isokrates a mad one?
Or some Insane Slavs, in order to claim Makedonian ancestry,
paraphrase some pieces of Isokrates?

and the answer is that some weird Slavs, do paraphrase Isokrates, isolating parts,


From Isokrates to Phillip 5 ch 32-33

[32] Γνοίης δ᾽ ἂν ὡς οὐδεμιᾶς σοι προσήκει τούτων ὀλιγωρεῖν, ἢν ἀνενέγκῃς αὐτῶν τὰς πράξεις ἐπὶ τοὺς σαυτοῦ προγόνους· εὑρήσεις γὰρ ἑκάστῃ πολλὴν φιλίαν πρὸς ὑμᾶς καὶ μεγάλας εὐεργεσίας ὑπαρχούσας. Ἄργος μὲν γάρ ἐστίν σοι πατρὶς, ἧς δίκαιον τοσαύτην σε ποιεῖσθαι πρόνοιαν ὅσην περ τῶν γονέων τῶν σαυτοῦ· Θηβαῖοι δὲ τὸν ἀρχηγὸν τοῦ γένους ὑμῶν τιμῶσιν καὶ ταῖς προσόδοις καὶ ταῖς θυσίαις μᾶλλον ἢ τοὺς θεοὺς τοὺς ἄλλους· [33] Λακεδαιμόνιοι δὲ τοῖς ἀπ᾽ ἐκείνου γεγονόσιν καὶ τὴν βασιλείαν καὶ τὴν ἡγεμονίαν εἰς ἅπαντα τὸν χρόνον δεδώκασιν· τὴν δὲ πόλιν τὴν ἡμετέραν φασὶν, οἷσπερ περὶ τῶν παλαιῶν πιστεύομεν, Ἡρακλεῖ μὲν συναιτίαν γενέσθαι τῆς ἀθανασίας —ὃν δὲ τρόπον, σοὶ μὲν αὖθις πυθέσθαι ῥᾴδιον, ἐμοὶ δὲ νῦν εἰπεῖν οὐ καιρός— τοῖς δὲ παισὶ τοῖς ἐκείνου τῆς σωτηρίας.
 
@ Ragnaro no2

And occupation still goes...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05TyPWI6A8o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9TVQpxdvS4
The following video shows Macedonians running away from Aegean Macedonia, trying to escape from the bombardment and retaliation from the government forces, after they won the civil war against the Democratic Army of Greece.
The official Greek position on this is that the communists have abducted these GREEK children and spread them through communist countries in order to brainwash them, and then return them to Greece (probably to start a communist revolution). However, the TESTIMONIES of these people, and some of them are still very much alive, say quite the opposite: that they were running away from the bombs coming from the party that won the Greek Civil War.
Today, 60 years after the exodus of the Macedonians and 20 years since the fall of the communist regimes in Europe, Greece is still “afraid” to let the refugees back home. These people, or their children, are still forbidden to enter Greece and reclaim their land, unless they declare themselves as “Greek by genus” – which is an example of the racist laws implemented in Greece, or a form of an ethnic genocide, something we often saw during the wars in some other Balkan countries.
This is what Nazi Germany did to the Jews, this is what Fascist Greece did towards the Macedonians.
Nazi Germany paid for their wrongdoings will Greece pay?


CHRIS STEFOU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrWNWVNJMOg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8oW_hcNyZc



As the Irish patriot Roger Casement (executed by the British after the 1916 uprising in Ireland) put it:
“I know of two tragic histories in the world – that of Ireland and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.”
Casement was speaking primarily of the Macedonians who then inhabited the lands that fell within the borders of the ancient Macedonian homeland.



That is why the Communists send Greek children at Poland and at Taskende Uzbekistan?
cause they were 'Makedonians'?

come on, sending children from Makedonia at 7th block at taskend Uzbekistan was the desire of a 'Makedonian'?

Or a fully organised crime by Communists
Stalin is no different than Hitler,
and Tito in order to worship him for his great Yugoslavia, he himshelf destroy the country he made after 1974
Tito wanted people to remember him as great man, so he himshelf, created Makedonia, Kossovo, etc etc
he made Yugoslvia great, he destroy Yugoslavia.


Sending children from N Greece to Poland, Czech, even Uzbekistan, is not a savour to SlavoMakedonians,
It is an organised crime of Communists,
they send also children from Epirus, was this a Slavomakedonian id plan?
 
@ Ragnaro no 3

The Politi-Kalfov protocol-agreement.

after WW1 among Greece and Bulgaria happened an agreement of exchange population,
Greeks came from Bulgaria, and Bulgarians from Greece moved to Bulgaria

Why kingdom of Serbia did not, did this, and later communist Tito?
why the more than 30% of Monasterion left their homes and moved to Greece and rest Europe and USA
who force them to leave?
and if Greek is Fasist, why in some villages SlavoMakedonian are spoken free,
and Greek does not in Fyrom?

I suggest think before you speak,

by Prespes treaty you earned a lot,
Greece lost a lot,
it is Time to recogn and come to a protocol like Politi-Kalfov
recogning the Greek minority that is about 14% today at Skopjie.
since you have your own state, it is time to stop playing the games of Serbia, Bulgaria, Turkey,
and face the truth, and make your own treaties, and agreements.


 
Of course that mean patriot , φιλέλλην, from φίλος - philos, "friend" + Έλλην - Hellen, "Greek , FRIEND OF GREEKS OR GREEK-FRIEND.

Yes, I know what these two words mean. I take it you are not an expert in the Ancient Greek language. The bottom line is that a philhellene in Ancient Greek could be someone of Greek or non-Greek origin. In modern English and modern Greek it is associated to non-Greeks only. So the connotation has shifted over time.

As for the Ancient Macedonians. Find me material evidence of a non-Greek language or culture associated to them and you will not convince me, but also the academic community. Someone who claims that Ancient Macedonians were different because they drank different, sat in different positions or we can not find evidence of their non-Greek language because the only scribes where Greek attests to the fact there is no evidence to support otherwise.

We have material evidence that Illyrians and Thracians were not Greek. Yet we have no such evidence for the Ancient Macedonians who conquered the known world. I would say, if the shoe fits...
 
Yes, I know what these two words mean. I take it you are not an expert in the Ancient Greek language. The bottom line is that a philhellene in Ancient Greek could be someone of Greek or non-Greek origin. In modern English and modern Greek it is associated to non-Greeks only. So the connotation has shifted over time.

As for the Ancient Macedonians. Find me material evidence of a non-Greek language or culture associated to them and you will not convince me, but also the academic community. Someone who claims that Ancient Macedonians were different because they drank different, sat in different positions or we can not find evidence of their non-Greek language because the only scribes where Greek attests to the fact there is no evidence to support otherwise.

We have material evidence that Illyrians and Thracians were not Greek. Yet we have no such evidence for the Ancient Macedonians who conquered the known world. I would say, if the shoe fits...

I am very curious to know if you greeks have preserved throught the history the memory of Alexander the Great. I mean, do you have preserved his memory in your folk tradition? Do you have any medieval chronicle where you talk about this great man that you consider a Greek?
Thanks in advance.
 
I am very curious to know if you greeks have preserved throught the history the memory of Alexander the Great. I mean, do you have preserved his memory in your folk tradition? Do you have any medieval chronicle where you talk about this great man that you consider a Greek?
Thanks in advance.

The memory of Alexander had survived within the Greek literary tradition indeed. In fact, if it wasn't for the Greek literary tradition, it is quite likely that we would not have known much of Alexander. Similarly, the same is true for the geographical term 'Macedonia'. It is through Greek culture that this name had survived and has been referred to continuously. In any case, naturally I am not going to do a full research on Alexander in Byzantine literature. But I have come across references of Alexander in later Greek era's quite some times. The one which come to mind was Manuel Palaiologos where he, during the Siege of Thessalonica by the Turks, reminded the citizens of Thessalonica that they are the heirs of Alexander and that they had to defend the city with their lives.

Alexander also has survived in Byzantine Greek art. Like this 14th century drawing where it shows how Alexander killed Darius:
keimeno_megas_alexandros1.jpg


You will find many more here:
https://helios-eie.ekt.gr/EIE/bitstream/10442/14245/1/Tourta-Alexander.pdf

Here is a book you will find interesting. Though you need access to read it.
https://brill.com/view/book/edcoll/9789004307728/B9789004307728_008.xml?lang=en

There are also medieval chronicles as you stated. But I have found a link only and it is in Greek.
https://www.politeianet.gr/books/97...berg-o-megas-alexandros-ton-buzantinon-290731

It would be nice if I can start a new threat and gather as many referrals as possible about Alexander in Medieval Greek works.
 
The memory of Alexander had survived within the Greek literary tradition indeed. In fact, if it wasn't for the Greek literary tradition, it is quite likely that we would not have known much of Alexander. Similarly, the same is true for the geographical term 'Macedonia'. It is through Greek culture that this name had survived and has been referred to continuously. In any case, naturally I am not going to do a full research on Alexander in Byzantine literature. But I have come across references of Alexander in later Greek era's quite some times. The one which come to mind was Manuel Palaiologos where he, during the Siege of Thessalonica by the Turks, reminded the citizens of Thessalonica that they are the heirs of Alexander and that they had to defend the city with their lives.

Alexander also has survived in Byzantine Greek art. Like this 14th century drawing where it shows how Alexander killed Darius:
keimeno_megas_alexandros1.jpg


You will find many more here:
https://helios-eie.ekt.gr/EIE/bitstream/10442/14245/1/Tourta-Alexander.pdf

Here is a book you will find interesting. Though you need access to read it.
https://brill.com/view/book/edcoll/9789004307728/B9789004307728_008.xml?lang=en

There are also medieval chronicles as you stated. But I have found a link only and it is in Greek.
https://www.politeianet.gr/books/97...berg-o-megas-alexandros-ton-buzantinon-290731

It would be nice if I can start a new threat and gather as many referrals as possible about Alexander in Medieval Greek works.
Excuse me because seems that you have not understand my question and for this reason i am going to repeat it:
I am very curious to know if you greeks have preserved throught the history the memory of Alexander the Great. I mean, do you have preserved his memory in your folk tradition? Do you have any medieval chronicle where you talk about this great man that you consider a Greek?
Thanks in advance.

I am asking about Greeks, not Romans.
 

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