Paleo Balkan Languages

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Angela

Angela

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Location in 1st Century BC

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Angela said:
I saw it on Lazaridis' twitter.

This is the source:
https://smerdaleos.wordpress.com/2018/10/27/συμβουλές-προς-ιλλυροδίφες-1/

Is it incorrect?
Click to expand...

From what I can see through google translating this blog, its not an official opinion but that of a blogger. He seems to have devoted an entire blog post about how Delmetae (Dalmatians) etymology doesn't come
from Albanian "Delme" (Sheep) and he uses Vladimir Orels opinion on the etymology to argue that. I will say that his opinion on the etymology of Delme is extremely speculative and so can hardly be used as an argument
to say something so sure. Especially since the archeological record of Dalmatia shows lots of sheep rearing.

From translating his responses to comments he just seems to evade or not adress the Albanian question, despite 4 different threads posted on the Illyrian question.

So i would take this map with a grain of salt about how accurate or reflective of reality it is.
 
https://www.academia.edu/10694330/_Illyrians_in_ancient_ethnographic_discourse
‘ Illyrians’ in ancient ethnographic discourse ( 2014 )
.
.
.
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0105090
Standing at the Gateway to Europe - The Genetic Structure of Western Balkan Populations Based on Autosomal and Haploid Markers
.
.
.
http://ialbania.com/ebook.pdf
The title of the book Epirotes -the Albanians of antiquity is borrowed from the Theodor Mommsen’s definition of Epirotes
in Römische Geschichte.
.
.
there is a spanish presentation paper on the ydna markers of the illyrian tribes
.
.
https://www.researchgate.net/public..._of_the_minority_claiming_an_Egyptian_descent
.
.
There seems to be too many different references to who the illyrians are ........there is clearly no mention of the term illyrians by the tribes themselves ..........even the Great Illyrian revolt only had tribes .
from Dalmatia and Pannonia
.
.
IMO, since I recently presented the census of Rome on the numbers of different Illyrian tribes , of which the Dalmatians had over 55% , then to me , these Dalmatians are the "first illyrians" ......and as we know they came to dalmatia from modern southern Austria
 
Sile said:
https://www.academia.edu/10694330/_Illyrians_in_ancient_ethnographic_discourse
‘ Illyrians’ in ancient ethnographic discourse ( 2014 )
.
.
.
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0105090
Standing at the Gateway to Europe - The Genetic Structure of Western Balkan Populations Based on Autosomal and Haploid Markers
.
.
.
http://ialbania.com/ebook.pdf
The title of the book Epirotes -the Albanians of antiquity is borrowed from the Theodor Mommsen’s definition of Epirotes
in Römische Geschichte.
.
.
there is a spanish presentation paper on the ydna markers of the illyrian tribes
.
.
https://www.researchgate.net/public..._of_the_minority_claiming_an_Egyptian_descent
.
.
There seems to be too many different references to who the illyrians are ........there is clearly no mention of the term illyrians by the tribes themselves ..........even the Great Illyrian revolt only had tribes .
from Dalmatia and Pannonia
.
.
IMO, since I recently presented the census of Rome on the numbers of different Illyrian tribes , of which the Dalmatians had over 55% , then to me , these Dalmatians are the "first illyrians" ......and as we know they came to dalmatia from modern southern Austria
Click to expand...

Here we go again.

That paper supposedly on "Illyrian ydna" first of all is from an Italian group, not a Spanish one, and second, is of modern dna, and third and for good measure is only 12 strs:
https://www.researchgate.net/public..._of_the_minority_claiming_an_Egyptian_descent
 
Johane Derite said:
From what I can see through google translating this blog, its not an official opinion but that of a blogger. He seems to have devoted an entire blog post about how Delmetae (Dalmatians) etymology doesn't come
from Albanian "Delme" (Sheep) and he uses Vladimir Orels opinion on the etymology to argue that. I will say that his opinion on the etymology of Delme is extremely speculative and so can hardly be used as an argument
to say something so sure. Especially since the archeological record of Dalmatia shows lots of sheep rearing.

From translating his responses to comments he just seems to evade or not adress the Albanian question, despite 4 different threads posted on the Illyrian question.

So i would take this map with a grain of salt about how accurate or reflective of reality it is.
Click to expand...


When I see Lazaridis name in publications don't even try to read what he is trying to say! He is largely in line with Greek government propaganda, and is making up stuff to make that propaganda look true. In one of his publications he was claiming that Peloponnesus is largely Greek continuity when DNA traces are clearly showing at least 30% Slavic, and autosomal Greeks are not even Balkan people
 
Like you would be able to judge his work. He is so much more intelligent than you are that you might as well be part of two different species.

Btw, it's not even his work.
 
Offcourse,

Dal-mat,

Dals = sea, als = sea

comprare makedonian language, Hesychius, Δαλ-αγχαν = sea



GUYS

I am tired of Stupidity and LIES,

LETS SEE,

STRABO 7 7 8
Appianos civil wars 2.9

want more?

I sugest search why malcom's Noel's book is considered trash,
what he hide in his book at 1990's



DAL-MATia = sea lands according Hesychius and NW Greek dialects or maybe Brygian.
compare Mat-Dei-a Ematheia Gods lands
Mat or Mati is a toponym used even today for land limits,
and has nothing to do with Albanian Delme,

according Hesychius Dalaghan = sea in Makedonian language (NW Greek dialects) Δαλ-αγχαν

If Ptolemy is right,
Then Albanopolis is today Greece W Makedonia
and Skodra is a dwelling of Daco-Thracians known as Germidawa


Appianus believes that Epidamnos, later Dyrrachium was a connection among Greek and Brygians,
he believes that Dyrrachium before taulantes was inhabited by Brygians,

The last of Brygians are mentioned at Lychnitis lake (Ohrid) and at Mygdonians, 2 powerfull places of Makedonian Kingdom,
 
That was funny to read to say the least. ;D
 
I can't believe that you are fighting for Greek Vs Albanian, when ONU tries to make most of Non-Europeans, Europeans. We can say that you all have the sense of priority.
 
Well if you feel the need to hide your identity and culture, it's maybe because you are scared of politics. Wich is laughable.
 
LABERIA said:
I can't believe how in the XXI century we are discussing about Anonymous authors. We have various Anonymous, the Anonymous of Wikipedia, this infinite number of anonymous bloggers, etc. We have various Medieval chronicles that for different reasons are called Anonymous. For example the cover was torn apart and we don't know who are the authors of those chronicles, etc. But in the XXI century? For what reason someone have to hide his identity in our days? Because there is an agenda behind his "scientific work". Unfortunately some people consider all this as SCIEEENCE.
BTW, we have different priorities here in Balkans.
Click to expand...

One can discuss discuss anonymous writings on their own merits. Dienekes is a great example of an anonymous amateur who figured a great many things out while most established academics were still stumbling in the dark.

That doesn't mean that academic accomplishment, peer review etc. aren't usually reasonable indicators of quality.
 
Angela said:
Location in 1st Century BC

WvPVD1f.png
[/IMG]
Click to expand...

I think this map is largely based on previous linguists in the field,for example the division of "Illyrian" into two groups from Radoslav Katicic Dalmatian-Pannonian and Illyrian proper.Paeonian seem very much close to Thracian.Moesian or Daco-Moesian was Georgiev dialect grouping i guess who arguess that Dacian and Thracian were different languages.

So i really do not see anything bad in this map,since is mostly based on other linguists opinions.
 
I can't believe people are discussing Dienekes and other bloggers as scientists (and not amateur but perhaps knowledgeable people who comment on scientific works), whereas they just ignore or dismiss (of course, only the others must have agendas) the papers written by actual scientists. Maybe it's comforting to believe that all the evidences that do not confirm their expectations are only the product of agenda-driven anonymous amateurs...

P.S.: I have no horse in this Balkanic horse race, I actually find much of it very petty and kind of ludicrous from an external, "New World" perspective (perhaps more cynical due to our much more recent and thus much more well known convoluted history), since people seem to claim a direct, pure, totally unmixed and untainted connection between specific modern nations and very specific aspects of people who lived in the same area (or, preferably, in even broader areas, that sounds grander, doesn't it?) millennia ago.
 
Milan.M said:
I think this map is largely based on previous linguists in the field,for example the division of "Illyrian" into two groups from Radoslav Katicic Dalmatian-Pannonian and Illyrian proper.Paeonian seem very much close to Thracian.Moesian or Daco-Moesian was Georgiev dialect grouping i guess who arguess that Dacian and Thracian were different languages.

So i really do not see anything bad in this map,since is mostly based on other linguists opinions.
Click to expand...

I also see no major problem in the map even to the point of view of Albanian nationalists (though of course it may be a bit unreliable and get things wrong here and there, with borders receding or advancing more than they should). On a broad scale I think it's well within the understanding of many professional linguists. It seems to me some people just thought that labeling Dalmatian-Pannonian as a separate category implied it was not an Illyrian language, but that is not what that means. It's just that some linguists believe there was a northern branch of dialects (Dalmatian-Pannonian) and a southern one ("Illyrian proper" in this map). And the reach of Illyrian in the map extends to most of Albania, so I don't know what triggered the usual people so much (because the dark blue color didn't take the entire territory of present-day Albania perhaps?). The eastern presence of Illyrian also under direct influence (or maybe partial confluence, a close sprachbund) with Moesian and Thracian in the area around Kosovo/Southern Serbia also fits what linguists have thought likely in the ancient Balkans.
 
@Ygorcs

We do not know who is behind blogs,
only what is written, and all we can do is find if it is true/correct or not.

@milan

you want an english translation?
 
Ygorcs said:
I can't believe people are discussing Dienekes and other bloggers as scientists (and not amateur but perhaps knowledgeable people who comment on scientific works), whereas they just ignore or dismiss (of course, only the others must have agendas) the papers written by actual scientists. Maybe it's comforting to believe that all the evidences that do not confirm their expectations are only the product of agenda-driven anonymous amateurs...
Click to expand...
Dienekes was mentioned by me in this thread, but not as a scientist, but as the symbol of a category of people who have chosen anonymity. The reasons why these people have opted to remain anonymous can be different. For example, some things that can not be said by people with names and surnames because in this case the risk is too big, are said through these anonymous bloogers, and then come "the real scholars" that attract the public's attention on the theories of these individuals or organizations hidden behind these pseudonyms. Let's make an agreement, let's leave this category of these illustrious anonymous people out of the talk. Let's concentrate on the work of the people who put their name taking all the consequences, first of all in respect to the second category.
BTW, who are these scientists who are ignored, can you give some examples and what agenda are you talking here?

P.S.: I have no horse in this Balkanic horse race, I actually find much of it very petty and kind of ludicrous from an external, "New World" perspective (perhaps more cynical due to our much more recent and thus much more well known convoluted history), since people seem to claim a direct, pure, totally unmixed and untainted connection between specific modern nations and very specific aspects of people who lived in the same area (or, preferably, in even broader areas, that sounds grander, doesn't it?) millennia ago.
Click to expand...
You are totally wrong and this due to the fact that you are from "New World" and you do not really know the reality in this part of the world. Exactly because due to our much more recent and thus much more well known convoluted history, we can`t find much of it very petty and kind of ludicrous from an internal perspective. Some of these so-called scholars remind us of the Nazi "scholars" who traveled the world by measuring the skulls to find the perfect race. And i am sure that you know the reasons of their interest about this kind of things.
 
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