Y-chromosome variability and genetic history of Commons from Northern Italy

kingjohn said:
don't listen to them
there is nothing to freak out and to be a shamed off ..
it is a regular neolithic haplogroup in europe .....:)
and you got famous : thomas jefferson:cool-v:
Click to expand...

… I don’t, I’m proud of my rare Haplogroup, … the way I see it ancient y T experienced a catastrophic event, … modern y Ts are the descendants of these tougher than average survivors :)
 
Salento said:
Pax, their mistake, …
… one more thing, Pistoia and … (Tuscany) is Central Italy!
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It just follows Boattini 2013. Tuscany with Northern Italy according to Y-chromosome.

"The first group (black squares) is represented by populations from North-Western Italy, including most of the Padana plain and Tuscany. The second group (white squares) includes locations from South-Eastern Italy and the whole Adriatic coast, being represented also in North-Eastern Italy."


4ySefcc.jpg
 
Salento said:
… I don’t, I’m proud of my rare Haplogroup, … the way I see it ancient y T experienced a catastrophic event, … modern y Ts are the descendants of these tougher than average survivors :)
Click to expand...

I confess that I liked it when you said: I only know that I know nothing. I am in the same situation in relation to my Haplogroup (baseline R1b-L51+ and terminal R1b-DF27+). I am very interested in the controversies regarding my haplogroup too. If there is a chance that my haplogroup will not have a direct relationship with the great Yamna migration to the west, the truth is that I will be very satisfied with that, lol.
 
Thanks Pax and Duarte :)

@Duarte … the catastrophe inflicted to y T that I mentioned was the R1b (and others) / Yamnaya migration / invasion, … I was being polite to R1b members, … though I’m glad that your Tribe maybe wasn’t part of it :)

… just theories :)
 
Salento said:
Thanks Pax and Duarte :)

@Duarte … the catastrophe inflicted to y T that I mentioned was the R1b (and others) / Yamnaya migration / invasion, … I was being polite to R1b members, … though I’m glad that your Tribe maybe wasn’t part of it :)

… just theories :)
Click to expand...


you would know that T was noted as K2 prior to 2008 ...........as it belongs to the K-M9 group with R1a, R1b, N, O, L ............all same family ...........some scholars still use K for T

a Russian scholar 5 years ago was arguing that it belongs under R1b or R1a as there are only a few snp which seperates T from these

another wanted to remove it, join it with LT and give LT a new mark .......I think he wanted it as a V

but, both have also stated that it is 42000 years old .............and the T branch split into 4 group 13500 years ago .............the 4 groups is what we have currently ..............they also said it was initially a pure hunter group
 
torzio said:
you would know that T was noted as K2 prior to 2008 ...........as it belongs to the K-M9 group with R1a, R1b, N, O, L ............all same family ...........some scholars still use K for T

a Russian scholar 5 years ago was arguing that it belongs under R1b or R1a as there are only a few snp which seperates T from these

another wanted to remove it, join it with LT and give LT a new mark .......I think he wanted it as a V

but, both have also stated that it is 42000 years old .............and the T branch split into 4 group 13500 years ago .............the 4 groups is what we have currently ..............they also said it was initially a pure hunter group
Click to expand...

yes, … they should all pick a Letter and stick with it, …

… y R is about 27,000 years old, … y T is way more ancient: 42,000 years old, so y T can’t be an R offshoot.

… these smarty pants scientists should talk to each other more often and formulate a Universal Naming and Dating standard,
and even if they did that already, we still have some who fly solo and make it confusing for everyone :)

… and our terminal clade doesn’t show up on yfull :grin:
 
Duarte said:
I confess that I liked it when you said: I only know that I know nothing. I am in the same situation in relation to my Haplogroup (baseline R1b-L51+ and terminal R1b-DF27+). I am very interested in the controversies regarding my haplogroup too. If there is a chance that my haplogroup will not have a direct relationship with the great Yamna migration to the west, the truth is that I will be very satisfied with that, lol.
Click to expand...

R1b-Df27 did not participate in any migration from the steppes because it originates from the French-Cantabrian region.
 
Salento said:
yes, … they should all pick a Letter and stick with it, …

… y R is about 27,000 years old, … y T is way more ancient: 42,000 years old, so y T can’t be an R offshoot.

… these smarty pants scientists should talk to each other more often and formulate a Universal Naming and Dating standard,
and even if they did that already, we still have some who fly solo and make it confusing for everyone :)

… and our terminal clade doesn’t show up on yfull :grin:
Click to expand...


they know about SK1480 , but they do not use it ................see my positive below

 
Salento said:
Thanks Pax and Duarte :)

@Duarte … the catastrophe inflicted to y T that I mentioned was the R1b (and others) / Yamnaya migration / invasion, … I was being polite to R1b members, … though I’m glad that your Tribe maybe wasn’t part of it :)

… just theories :)
Click to expand...


likely
probably also some other farmers suffered :
G2 , h2 and some branches of C and j2 ( maybe even small number of some e-L618)
 
torzio said:
they know about SK1480 , but they do not use it ................see my positive below

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@Torzio … does your BAM contain autosomal results too?

… my y + and - … same Terminal SNP, same Tribe :)


hzaOrkQ.jpg
 
Salento said:
@Torzio … does your BAM contain autosomal results too?

… my y + and - … same Terminal SNP, same Tribe :)


hzaOrkQ.jpg
Click to expand...


i have the same as you............as well as

BY32027 • Y70078

level T-BY143483
private


and


YP1866 which is 5 stars (max ) ......................this will either be = to Sk1480 or below it once yfull release it ......................i asked them about this 2 months ago and they say found with another on the austrian-italian border area
 
torzio said:
someone changed the page 12 days ago .................but chart still have T1a
There have been hackers on the net changing all T ydna to be somali ....been going on for nearly 2 years


By his side, I0795 showed higher autosomal admixture frequencies of surrounding populations like Hunter Gatherer Europeans I2a (West Hunter Gatherers) and Aegean-Anatolian Neolithics G2a and H2. However, I0795 have the highest frequency of shared DNA with Upper Paleolithic Neanderthals from Central Europe found in any Early Neolithic population. Further comparisons show that I0795 has similar frequencies like Oase-1 when compared with Vindija Neanderthals. When I0795 and I0797 are compared to Oase-1, they both share a very high percentage of DNA 34% and 18% respectively and I0795 12% with Ostuni1. This could mean that this T1a1 tribe from Karsdorf was closest to Upper Paleolithic Hunter-Gatherers than to Mesolithic haplogroups.

charts still say T1a


the third karsdorf T was found by Brandt and Haak



KAR537

T1a1- L162

Brown hair
Blue eyes
Pale skin
The investigated individual 537 is a 184 male with an age at death of around 25-30 years (figure supplementary S1), dated to 5056–185 4959 cal BC (KIA 40357 – 6116 ± 32 BP) (Brandt et al., 2014, Nicklisch, 2017)


these karsdorf T1a samples along with the 2 x t1a bulgarians from Malek who are the same period could have links with the italians
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… liars on Wikipedia!

out of curiosity, … I downloaded the Karsdorf I0795 bam, … and his Y Haplogroup is T and not R1b !!!

General I0795 Y Haplogroup results:

YR9CYn4.gif


9nuQsCy.gif


As of now the link below is still Compromised:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karsdorf_remains
 
Salento said:
… liars on Wikipedia!

out of curiosity, … I downloaded the Karsdorf I0795 bam, … and his Y Haplogroup is T and not R1b !!!

General I0795 Y Haplogroup results:

YR9CYn4.gif


9nuQsCy.gif


As of now the link below is still Compromised:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karsdorf_remains
Click to expand...

Agree.
There is an inconsistency in the page, due to transcription error, or worse than that, in bad faith of the Wiki reviewer. The page itself gives reference to the article by Haak et al., 2015 which says that “This individual belonged to the haplogroup T1a (PF5604: 7890461C → T, M70: 21893881A → C). This is the first instance of this haplogroup in an ancient individual that we know and reinforces the case of the Neolithic origin of that lineage in modern Europeans, rather than a more recent introduction from the Near East, where it is more abundant today."

These two informations, next, in the same page Wiki demonstrate the inconsistencies of the page:

JlDvFez.jpg


Sy5EfEZ.jpg
 
Duarte said:
Agree.
There is an inconsistency in the page, due to transcription error, or worse than that, in bad faith of the Wiki reviewer. The page itself gives reference to the article by Haak et al., 2015 which says that “This individual belonged to the haplogroup T1a (PF5604: 7890461C → T, M70: 21893881A → C). This is the first instance of this haplogroup in an ancient individual that we know and reinforces the case of the Neolithic origin of that lineage in modern Europeans, rather than a more recent introduction from the Near East, where it is more abundant today."

These two informations, next, in the same page Wiki demonstrate the inconsistencies of the page:

JlDvFez.jpg


Sy5EfEZ.jpg
Click to expand...


i spoke to the owner of the page yesterday......he will fix it soon......he states hackers have been trying to destroy/change all data of ancient T ydna
 
@Duarte there are 3 y T Neolithic Karsdorf samples I0795 Kar6, I0797 Kar16a, and Kars537 :)

@Torzio … thanks for the info :)
 
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