News Article on Wang Paper - PIE is Anatolian again?

That's a real dead end, the G2a in Maykop is the same as nowadays Georgia. All Southern haplogroups from this study, are today well represented in Caucasian languages. That's an overkill for this hypothesis. And no, it was L2/L595, not L1a wich was Areni-1 cave.

Well Wang's hypothesis is language transfer without admixture I guess.

Seems to me like something they made up as they went, like the hybrid hypothesis in general. Verging on pseudoscience even.
 
Well Wang's hypothesis is language transfer without admixture I guess.

Seems to me like something they made up as they went, like the hybrid hypothesis in general. Verging on pseudoscience even.

The have the weight that this actually already happened, with Romans and their conquered peoples. It's then a No EHG Anatolia/Cultural Conquest hypothesis. It's also fits well in the " Caucasus was a sink " idea of David Reich, everything goes straight in like a Puzzle, when it only concerns hypothesis of scientists that have relationship with each others, wich there is probably a pejorative word for such synergies just like collusion?
 
You're just misinterpreting what they're showing.

I don't think I am - they're clearly referring to the Steppe Maykop outliers as signs of Maykop making a tiny ethnic contribution that was involved in culturally rather than demically spreading PIE.
 
I don't think I am - they're clearly referring to the Steppe Maykop outliers as signs of Maykop making a tiny ethnic contribution that was involved in culturally rather than demically spreading PIE.

Wang et. al:

Reply: We’re afraid that this might be a misunderstanding. There is indeed very limited gene flow between the Caucasus and the steppe groups (apart from the examples highlighted). However, we have based our PIE-related speculations on the observation that the CHG/Iranian (green) ancestry component is increasing already during the Eneolithic north of the Caucasus. This led us to propose that this might be the actual ‘tracer dye’ of an early PIE spread, which could then also accommodate the spread of PIE south of the mountain range where this ancestry component also rises in frequency resulting in a relatively homogenised dual ancestry (Anatolian + Iranian farming-related ancestry) in Chalcolithic times (see also brown arrow in Figure 2).
 
the funny thing is that these scholars are not credible when they root for the Anatolian or South of Caucasus thesis ( personally I do not believe in both by the way ) but they are credible to many "keyboard warrior" when they speak about 90% replacement in britain or the "iberian massacre".....seems that here some kind of a racial bias is involved.......
 
Wang et. al:

Reply: We’re afraid that this might be a misunderstanding. There is indeed very limited gene flow between the Caucasus and the steppe groups (apart from the examples highlighted). However, we have based our PIE-related speculations on the observation that the CHG/Iranian (green) ancestry component is increasing already during the Eneolithic north of the Caucasus. This led us to propose that this might be the actual ‘tracer dye’ of an early PIE spread, which could then also accommodate the spread of PIE south of the mountain range where this ancestry component also rises in frequency resulting in a relatively homogenised dual ancestry (Anatolian + Iranian farming-related ancestry) in Chalcolithic times (see also brown arrow in Figure 2).

Well then the guy writing the article was wrong, my bad. I agree that the increase in CHG corresponds to at least on the Steppe the origin of Late-PIE.
 
The party is just getting started. The models are using CHG/Iranian tracer dye theories.
I think certain ideas might change in the future when they model Yamnaya and use Dzudzuana-26000YBP+/-[ancestral to both [CHG&Iran]/and or related clusters from the Caucasus.
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/suppl/2018/09/20/423079.DC1/423079-1.pdf

That's a good point.

However, the only way I can see this relating to PIE is if we're talking about some sort of movement of people from the south onto the steppe during the Eneolithic.

All the other possibilities are surely too old, aren't they?
 
That's a good point.

However, the only way I can see this relating to PIE is if we're talking about some sort of movement of people from the south onto the steppe during the Eneolithic.

All the other possibilities are surely too old, aren't they?

The Anatolian-Late-PIE split probably took place in the Late Neolithic if I had to guess, as it looks to be before the invention of the wheel. If that's right, that kind of ruins my Kura-Araxes idea for Anatolian.
 
That's a good point.

However, the only way I can see this relating to PIE is if we're talking about some sort of movement of people from the south onto the steppe during the Eneolithic.

All the other possibilities are surely too old, aren't they?
I can't help but wonder sometimes.
Rhetorical questions for important PIE words-located within ancient Dzudzuana 26000+/- YBP[and by extension Yamnaya] zone

Oldest dated wagon burial in the region 5300-5100YBP+/-
SA6004 Sharakhalsun 6 5170.5 Steppe Maykop U7b Q1a2 - Highest/Наиболее выраженаQK7584188Q-L933

Connection of wine in the region with proto Karvelian
itself derived from the Proto-Indo-European stem *win-o- (cf. Armenian: գինի, gini; Ancient Greek: οἶνος oinos; Aeolic Greek: ϝοῖνος woinos; Hittite: wiyana; Lycian: oino).[40][41][42] T
Ultimate Indo-European origin of the word is the subject of continued debate. Some scholars have noted the similarities between the words for wine in Indo-European languages (e.g. Armenian gini, Latin vinum, Ancient Greek οἶνος, Russian вино [vʲɪˈno]), Kartvelian

Numerical evidence numbers like 2 and 4
The number ‘four’ is reconstructed as *otxo- in Proto-Kartvelian, and this is generally taken to be a loan from Proto-
Indo-European (cf. Klimov 1998:145—146; Fähnrich—Sardshweladse 1995:269; Gamkrelidze
—Ivanov 1995.I:775 [Gamkrelidze—Ivanov reconstruct Proto-Kartvelian *(o)ŝt(o)-]).
https://www.researchgate.net/public...s_on_the_Proto-Indo-European_cardinal_numbers
 
Connection of wine in the region with proto Karvelian
itself derived from the Proto-Indo-European stem *win-o- (cf. Armenian: գինի, gini; Ancient Greek: οἶνος oinos; Aeolic Greek: ϝοῖνος woinos; Hittite: wiyana; Lycian: oino).[40][41][42] T
Ultimate Indo-European origin of the word is the subject of continued debate. Some scholars have noted the similarities between the words for wine in Indo-European languages (e.g. Armenian gini, Latin vinum, Ancient Greek οἶνος, Russian вино [vʲɪˈno]), Kartvelian

Numerical evidence numbers like 2 and 4

https://www.researchgate.net/public...s_on_the_Proto-Indo-European_cardinal_numbers

If you are going this route then first wine was made in Shulaveri-Shomu Culture. Where is Olympus Mons ? :embarassed:
 
If you are going this route then first wine was made in Shulaveri-Shomu Culture. Where is Olympus Mons ? :embarassed:
:)

Angela is working her way to ban me infraction after infraction.... Where is maciamo?
 
MPI SHh is even making maps with dates... And still people "pretend not to see".
Never mind... At the right time they 'knew all along" and "have been saying it since" whatever.
 
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Sorry, duplicate.
 
Where I can find them Olympus?

you're kidding right?

- At the beginning of this thread you have a Map with dates from Johannes krauser, where he even goes as far as writing 6900 years ago instead of 7000 Years ago. Why? - because For years I have been spreading the 4900BC as the year PIE started to spread from the south caucasus, because its the date the Shulaveri suddenly vanished from south Caucasus. 4900BC... he goes and writes 6900 years ago. Delicious.

-then there is a video next to that Map above in the thread, as if the map was not clear enough, where Gray starts the story at 8000 years ago, the 6th millennium, in south Caucasus.---errr, who lived in the south Caucasus during the 6th millennium? it starts with SHU...

- Do you know how much grievances I had to take over the years, and even recently here at Eupedia by some "Linguistics experts" that fall short of call me an idiot because PIE can never be that earlier? --- well MPI in the voice of Gray himself is saying it out loud in the video, isn't he??
 
you're kidding right?

- At the beginning of this thread you have a Map with dates from Johannes krauser, where he even goes as far as writing 6900 years ago instead of 7000 Years ago. Why? - because For years I have been spreading the 4900BC as the year PIE started to spread from the south caucasus, because its the date the Shulaveri suddenly vanished from south Caucasus. 4900BC... he goes and writes 6900 years ago. Delicious.

-then there is a video next to that Map above in the thread, as if the map was not clear enough, where Gray starts the story at 8000 years ago, the 6th millennium, in south Caucasus.---errr, who lived in the south Caucasus during the 6th millennium? it starts with SHU...

- Do you know how much grievances I had to take over the years, and even recently here at Eupedia by some "Linguistics experts" that fall short of call me an idiot because PIE can never be that earlier? --- well MPI in the voice of Gray himself is saying it out loud in the video, isn't he??

That's really a very specific date. I never noticed.

I do think such a delay between Indo-Hittite and LPIE is problematic though, while a general Neolithic timeframe isn't necessairly. Perhaps something like the Ivanov model wherein only Balto-Slavic spreads from the steppe should be reconsidered. That would mean Greek, Germanic etc. from West Asia.
 
If you are going this route then first wine was made in Shulaveri-Shomu Culture. Where is Olympus Mons ? :embarassed:

the latest buzz word should really be Honey, Medhu.
University of toronto, which is working in SHulaveri and Gadrachilli, is saying they will publish something later how the shulaveri were apicultures, so, honey harvesters.
 
you're kidding right?

- At the beginning of this thread you have a Map with dates from Johannes krauser, where he even goes as far as writing 6900 years ago instead of 7000 Years ago. Why? - because For years I have been spreading the 4900BC as the year PIE started to spread from the south caucasus, because its the date the Shulaveri suddenly vanished from south Caucasus. 4900BC... he goes and writes 6900 years ago. Delicious.

-then there is a video next to that Map above in the thread, as if the map was not clear enough, where Gray starts the story at 8000 years ago, the 6th millennium, in south Caucasus.---errr, who lived in the south Caucasus during the 6th millennium? it starts with SHU...

- Do you know how much grievances I had to take over the years, and even recently here at Eupedia by some "Linguistics experts" that fall short of call me an idiot because PIE can never be that earlier? --- well MPI in the voice of Gray himself is saying it out loud in the video, isn't he??

You're getting me wrong.....just I was thinking of something more detailed or new data, just that.
 

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