Is Turkey a Western country ?

When the Turks invaded Kosova and during the invasion they had written some defters counting the population . Ottomans didn't count people by their ethnic origin, but by their religious adherence. This is a historical fact. We know somehow only the ethnic composition of the population during the last 100 years, or maximum 200 years. We don't know for sure what was the ethnic situation backward this period

Turks and their Balkan and other Muslim allies conducted ethnic cleanings and terror in different periods in Ottoman Empire. This was only against Christian people: Greeks, Bulgarians, Serbs, Armanji (Aromanians), Armenians etc. Albanian pashas, begs, fighters etc. participated in the Turkish side or they were initiators against Christian people. I gave the example of Albanian Ali Pasha who destroyed Armanji land.

South Albania: Armanji (Aromanians) and Epirotes (Greeks), Kosovo: Serbs, Turkish coast: Greeks, everyone knows about Armenians and Assyrians, etc. In Turkey, in Istanbul etc. there are data about inhabitants of Ottoman empire in different periods.
 
Again, it won't explain, position of Italy and Greece neither Japan and Korea. Biblical view about women is not too different. Torah is also same

" a person (i.e., a man) must make three blessings every day, “… that God has not made me a non-Jew,” “… that God has not made me a woman,” and “… that God has not made me an ignoramus."



Young Turks ideal: Ottomanism which have fed French Humanism, died when Serbians and Greeks followed their bishops.

King Alexander and Ataturk were friends and they thought that after Balkan wars and inclusion of Kosovo and Slavic Macedonia in Serbia there is unsolved issues between Yugoslavia and Turkey.

But I think king Alexander didn't know about the extent of Armenian and Assyrian tragedy. Also he probably didn't have appropriate information about Greek suffering and ethnic cleanings of Greek areas.

What is interesting, Kurds helped the Turks in all these actions according Turkish sources (I don't know extent to witch this is true), but after that and Kurds are beginning to suffer.
 
Ottomans made succeses taking Anatolia,Tsarigrad,Balkans by good part due to hostilities among many different people and their fight for supremacy over the region,polities of Slavic and Byzantines destroyed themselves while other side had their unity in the Caliph,Islam.Catholics also were united under pope,which was never achieved back then in Orthodoxy,since the dissolution of the Roman empire Balkans are melting pot,yet the modern day "Balkanization" and the new name Balkans for Haemus Peninsula itself remind on colonization and colony,Balkan people should consolidate among themselves and find common language and understandings,this never will be brought from outside,why a region with such great history of Europe had to become what it is,religion and primitive nationalism being root of wars and poverty many times.
 
Dude, you're speaking like a 10 year old now. Get serious.
So if you kill someone in your house then it didn't happen because the house is listed on your parents and not you? Or maybe your dad did it?
Yes, but there were not massacres made by Albanians. And Albanians were not the kids of the Ottomans, so I don't see any comparison there. I'm getting serious, and you don't. Do you have any proofs about the cleansing. I doubt you have. During the Ottomans Albanians were living further north Kosova until to Nish. Only the last period during the ottoman empire, after the Serb independence, there happened an exchange of the inhabitants . Albanians who were living in Nis and other areas on south Serbia were deported in Kosova, and the Serbs of Kosova were deported to south Serbia. This is s historical fact. South Serbia was full of Albanians, from the Nis and further into south. I mean Prokuplje, Vranje, Novi pazar, kurshumli, Nis, etc . Those inhabitants were deported into Kosova.
 
Turks and their Balkan and other Muslim allies conducted ethnic cleanings and terror in different periods in Ottoman Empire. This was only against Christian people: Greeks, Bulgarians, Serbs, Armanji (Aromanians), Armenians etc. Albanian pashas, begs, fighters etc. participated in the Turkish side or they were initiators against Christian people. I gave the example of Albanian Ali Pasha who destroyed Armanji land.

South Albania: Armanji (Aromanians) and Epirotes (Greeks), Kosovo: Serbs, Turkish coast: Greeks, everyone knows about Armenians and Assyrians, etc. In Turkey, in Istanbul etc. there are data about inhabitants of Ottoman empire in different periods.
As I said, there are no defters showing an ethnic composition. Vlach population in Albania was insignificant. The chronicles of the time mentioning only one town in south Albania of Vlach population. (Moskopolje) . Greeks were dwelling in some few villages. They never composed a whole town. They came as land workers for the Albanian beys. Ali pasha was trying to separate south Albania (tosk) from Turkey. Ottomans killed him for this intention. Greeks during the time of Ali pasha lived as free people. The majority of the orthodox Albanians today don't have any roots to the Vlach population. They are totally ethnic Albanians. Scanderbeg was born as an Albanian orthodox. Orthodox Albanians participated on the Albanian independence same as the others. Some of them are treated as heroes in Albania. Some of the Albanian orthodox patriots were killed by the Greek nationalists.
Fan S Noli, Papa Kristo Negovani, Mihal Grameno, Themistokli Germenji, Petro Nini Luarasi, etc, are heroes in Albania. Those Albanian celebrities, always called themselves "pure Albanian" . Mihal Grameno participated on the killing of a Greek important priest. This priest was plotting against Albania.
 
The turks committed genocide on the Armenians and now they want to do the same to the 30 million Kurds.

Its also a way not to allow kurds to vote in the upcoming elections, so that edgoran can win and make a state of the ISIS.

There is no way these turks can be a western nation...........besides they have only been in Turkey for just over a 1000 years
 
Yes, but there were not massacres made by Albanians. And Albanians were not the kids of the Ottomans, so I don't see any comparison there. I'm getting serious, and you don't. Do you have any proofs about the cleansing. I doubt you have. During the Ottomans Albanians were living further north Kosova until to Nish. Only the last period during the ottoman empire, after the Serb independence, there happened an exchange of the inhabitants . Albanians who were living in Nis and other areas on south Serbia were deported in Kosova, and the Serbs of Kosova were deported to south Serbia. This is s historical fact. South Serbia was full of Albanians, from the Nis and further into south. I mean Prokuplje, Vranje, Novi pazar, kurshumli, Nis, etc . Those inhabitants were deported into Kosova.

Ok, stop this nonsense. I don't care if Ottomans ordered Albanians to do it, or they did it voluntarily or opportunistically, or you don't hold them accountable, responsible or whatever. Fact is they enforced it, and the bigger problem is that they continued doing it in 20th and 21st century.
 
As I said, there are no defters showing an ethnic composition. Vlach population in Albania was insignificant. The chronicles of the time mentioning only one town in south Albania of Vlach population. (Moskopolje) . Greeks were dwelling in some few villages. They never composed a whole town. They came as land workers for the Albanian beys. Ali pasha was trying to separate south Albania (tosk) from Turkey. Ottomans killed him for this intention. Greeks during the time of Ali pasha lived as free people. The majority of the orthodox Albanians today don't have any roots to the Vlach population. They are totally ethnic Albanians. Scanderbeg was born as an Albanian orthodox. Orthodox Albanians participated on the Albanian independence same as the others. Some of them are treated as heroes in Albania. Some of the Albanian orthodox patriots were killed by the Greek nationalists.
Fan S Noli, Papa Kristo Negovani, Mihal Grameno, Themistokli Germenji, Petro Nini Luarasi, etc, are heroes in Albania. Those Albanian celebrities, always called themselves "pure Albanian" . Mihal Grameno participated on the killing of a Greek important priest. This priest was plotting against Albania.

Aromani is the main composition of Albania,
the most significant population,
it seems that Vlach men and Slavic women made Albania
E-V13 R1b is very strong in Aromani populations


and about Kastrioti, search the paradox,
one by one your propaganda fails,
 
As I said, there are no defters showing an ethnic composition. Vlach population in Albania was insignificant. The chronicles of the time mentioning only one town in south Albania of Vlach population. (Moskopolje) . Greeks were dwelling in some few villages. They never composed a whole town. They came as land workers for the Albanian beys. Ali pasha was trying to separate south Albania (tosk) from Turkey. Ottomans killed him for this intention. Greeks during the time of Ali pasha lived as free people. The majority of the orthodox Albanians today don't have any roots to the Vlach population. They are totally ethnic Albanians. Scanderbeg was born as an Albanian orthodox. Orthodox Albanians participated on the Albanian independence same as the others. Some of them are treated as heroes in Albania. Some of the Albanian orthodox patriots were killed by the Greek nationalists.
Fan S Noli, Papa Kristo Negovani, Mihal Grameno, Themistokli Germenji, Petro Nini Luarasi, etc, are heroes in Albania. Those Albanian celebrities, always called themselves "pure Albanian" . Mihal Grameno participated on the killing of a Greek important priest. This priest was plotting against Albania.

In Albania for more decades (in time of Zogu and Hoxha) minorities didn't have rights. They couldn't belonging to their nation, didn't have right of mother language (about schools no question, nothing), even names they had to have Albanian etc. All inhabitants had to be only Albanians. Even today some nations in Albania have no their rights. Armanji (Aromanians) recognized only as cultural minority not national minority.

Armanji (Aromanians) mostly assimilated. We will see in next censuses if they have right of national minority. Arno Tarner in the book of forgotten minorities writes that today Armanji in Albania are about 100,000 - 200,000 (his estimate). Tom Winnifrith speaks about 200,000. They include and Armanji who speak only Albanian. Ali Pasha and other Albanian pashas, begs and fighters, together with Turks, destroyed Armanji population in Albania, and they are known facts. Once, capital of Armanji land, Moskopole had over 50,000 people, and it was one of the greatest cities in the Balkans. Today Voskopoja (Moskopole) is village with population 2,200 people, everyone can see extent of destruction. Armanji in Albania for centuries suffered oppression, and many have assimilated. They mostly saved their faith and today they are Orthodox Albanians.

One text:

http://www.rferl.org/content/article/1097921.html

"By the mid-18th century, Voskopoja had a population of nearly 50,000 and was reputed to be one of the largest towns in the Balkans. But in 1769, the Turks ordered the local Albanian bey [ruler] to destroy the town but to leave the churches standing, thus beginning a long decline.

Voskopoja today is being depopulated. According to last April's census, Voskopoja and the surrounding villages have a population of 2,200. Many inhabitants work in lowland cities or in Greece.

Dhori Fallo is a writer and local historian. He says Aromanian has always survived, despite difficult conditions: "There has been no school in Aromanian [in Voskopoja] since 1920. So [the Vlachs] had no other choice than to learn Albanian, even having to pay for private lessons. They were Albanian citizens and were only able to speak Aromanian at home."

Today, scholars believe more Vlachs reside in Albania's cities than in the countryside, in marked contrast to the rest of Albania's population. As a result, they say Aromanian is in greater danger than ever of falling into disuse.

No one has any idea exactly how many Vlachs live in Albania. British scholar Tom Winnifrith estimates their number at 200,000, while other estimates put them at well under 50,000. As a result of a decision by Albania's parliament, this year's census made no reference to ethnic identity, mother tongue, or religion."
 
As I said, there are no defters showing an ethnic composition. Vlach population in Albania was insignificant. The chronicles of the time mentioning only one town in south Albania of Vlach population. (Moskopolje) . Greeks were dwelling in some few villages. They never composed a whole town. They came as land workers for the Albanian beys. Ali pasha was trying to separate south Albania (tosk) from Turkey. Ottomans killed him for this intention. Greeks during the time of Ali pasha lived as free people. The majority of the orthodox Albanians today don't have any roots to the Vlach population. They are totally ethnic Albanians. Scanderbeg was born as an Albanian orthodox. Orthodox Albanians participated on the Albanian independence same as the others. Some of them are treated as heroes in Albania. Some of the Albanian orthodox patriots were killed by the Greek nationalists.
Fan S Noli, Papa Kristo Negovani, Mihal Grameno, Themistokli Germenji, Petro Nini Luarasi, etc, are heroes in Albania. Those Albanian celebrities, always called themselves "pure Albanian" . Mihal Grameno participated on the killing of a Greek important priest. This priest was plotting against Albania.

so at least you admit the burn down of Moschopolis (relatives in law comes from there)
but what about Durres? first was Aromanian Speakers, second Greeks then Albanians what now?come onj
come on admit it, Goranje people when come to Greece say we are muslim Slavs, and they are >10% of population,
AT LEAST FACE THE TRUTH ONCE,
 
The turks committed genocide on the Armenians and now they want to do the same to the 30 million Kurds.

Its also a way not to allow kurds to vote in the upcoming elections, so that edgoran can win and make a state of the ISIS.

There is no way these turks can be a western nation...........besides they have only been in Turkey for just over a 1000 years

it is bigger Geopolitical and Geostrategical,
They are pushing Russia and Iran to enter the chess game, by Using Turkey
Turks might be second power in NATO, but they can be divided easily,
Besides History shows that Turks with out Kurds , Albanians or Greeks are very weak, like the Byzantines in their end,
after the fitvah against Ibrahim given by Kadi effents to Suleiman Turkey is decline, only Kemal could save her, and Erdogan is not Kemal,
he listen to suni imams more, than to normal logic,


the old list of terrorist from FOREIGN OFFICE USA, had as terrorists 3 groups
IRA in North Ireland
ETA in Vasquez country
PKK in Turkey
his action is Like Spain bombing Gascones in France for ETA
UK bombing ireland for IRA

he points that by ressurecting old memories of fear, and purposing on religious feelings, he would manage to get his power back,
and if not he might be dictator, playing the game of a 'religious reformer' against Kemal who was not so religious but more militaristic and industrialist
but the truth is that he is pushing Russia and Iran to enter, so give excuse for NATO to enter Iran for nuclear program,
he is smart, but plays with fire, a fire than can not only burn Turkey, but expand in Balkans, Ukjraine etc

I can expand more, but it will sound like Global conspiracy theories
 
Aromani is the main composition of Albania,
the most significant population,
it seems that Vlach men and Slavic women made Albania
E-V13 R1b is very strong in Aromani populations


and about Kastrioti, search the paradox,
one by one your propaganda fails,

Yes Yetos. In 17th and 18th century Armanji (Aromanians) were numerous and they wanted to create own state. But Albanians and Turks didn't allow it and they destroyed this nation. Swedish historian Johann Thunmann wrote that in these areas main language was Aromanian and people spoke Greek. Aromanian and Greek, not Albanian. Armanji ended tragically or they were assimilated or they had to escape. According some scholars about 200,000 inhabitants in Albania today are Armanji, though if we take in account time and extent of assimilation, their number can be much higher.
 
The turks committed genocide on the Armenians and now they want to do the same to the 30 million Kurds.

Its also a way not to allow kurds to vote in the upcoming elections, so that edgoran can win and make a state of the ISIS.

There is no way these turks can be a western nation...........besides they have only been in Turkey for just over a 1000 years
I hope that Kurds have their own independent state.
You can't blame modern Turks about something that happened before 100 years. I don't know much about the Armenian genocide, but for sure those modern Turks didn't kill any Armenian. We can't blame modern population about the stuff which happened many years ago. We can't blame all the Serbs about massacres of Milosevic throughout ex Yugoslavia. We can't blame all the Greeks about the massacres made on civilian Albanian population on north West Greece during 1944-1945 .
 
But I think king Alexander didn't know about the extent of Armenian and Assyrian tragedy. Also he probably didn't have appropriate information about Greek suffering and ethnic cleanings of Greek areas.

Tragedy? Their conditions were not same with loyal Jew citizen of Germany before 2WW. Their situation was defeated independence war.

and you suprised me, Barbar Muslim Turk, Pure Innocent Anatolian&Balkan Christians

How the people still believe that 20th century historical cliches?
 
I hope that Kurds have their own independent state.
You can't blame modern Turks about something that happened before 100 years. I don't know much about the Armenian genocide, but for sure those modern Turks didn't kill any Armenian. We can't blame modern population about the stuff which happened many years ago. We can't blame all the Serbs about massacres of Milosevic throughout ex Yugoslavia. We can't blame all the Greeks about the massacres made on civilian Albanian population on north West Greece during 1944-1945 .

then can we blaim the Albanians for the massacre and burn down villages to Greeks?
from Epirus Nova to Peloponese?
 
I hope that Kurds have their own independent state.
You can't blame modern Turks about something that happened before 100 years. I don't know much about the Armenian genocide, but for sure those modern Turks didn't kill any Armenian. We can't blame modern population about the stuff which happened many years ago. We can't blame all the Serbs about massacres of Milosevic throughout ex Yugoslavia. We can't blame all the Greeks about the massacres made on civilian Albanian population on north West Greece during 1944-1945 .

that is correct, but
Ottomans were responsable for the Armenian genocide and many other crimes
After Ottomans were defeated Ataturk founded a new Turkey which was going in the good direction
now there is a new nostalgia in Turkey for 'good old Ottoman times'
Erdogan is a dangerous man and he has many supporters inside Turkey who are nostalgic nationalists and/or believe in Muslim supremacy
he has lost last elections because many Kurds voted against him and now he tries to turn Kurds into outlaws
 
Rejecting Morocco, and accepting Greek Cyprus is an example. Both country don't have land in Europe.

Your country and mine are better without being part of that damn EU

Words of God:
...''but you may hate a thing although it is good for you, and may love a thing although it is evil for you''...
http://www.parsquran.com/data/show.php?lang=eng&user=eng&quantity=&sura=2&ayat=216

...''Never will the Jews nor the Christians be pleased with you (O Muhammad Peace be upon him ) till you follow their religion''...
http://www.comp.leeds.ac.uk/nora/html/2-120.html

I think the EU will self-sinking sooner or later,anyway the EU will reject any country like yours or mine, for one reason, we are Muslims,get no doubts.

I don't agree with you. EU is democratic union.

For those who contradict the Muslims,like you :LOL:

I hope that Kurds have their own independent state.

The Catalans,Flanders too :wary2:

Have a good day.
 
Your country and mine are better without being part of that damn EU

I had a good hope about EU, maybe they could guide the world to create one singal country.
 

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