Questions on my Y-DNA Haplogroup T

It seems this person is not a sizemore as the sizemore family are mostly hap. Q
Ftdna test for this person in Y111 found 109 STR matches with the Powell T1a2 family, the assumptions is that the sizemore T1a2 in yfull was adopted from a Powell family in 1829

............................
.
I traced this line to Thomas Powell 1478-1525 in Brecon Wales.
His father had a welsh surname....William Pwyll 1453 who married Catherine John.
There is a french person ( from Lorraine ) as well as many others who have family trees with this person...
.
.
In ftdna all the Powell family and the one sizemore are in their own group
it is a dead group as it is negative for CTS8862 ......so until they find more non-family members, this group will remain as is
 
Another T1a2 match ( distant )

.
John McKee 1801 North carolina married, Ann Baahne
his father was
Jack Mckee born Virginia
his father
Robert Brown McKee 1692 - 1774 from Drumbo Ireland
died 11/6/1774 Virginia,

hi father
Alexander Williams MacKey 1668 born Strathnaver Scotland
died 1740 Ireland
married Miriam Brown
 
another

T1a2-CTS8862
from shkoder , between albania and montenegro ( for 300 years ) ..........now lives in Kosovo

I think he is the recent kosovo noted person
 
a yfull find for a match for me
.
YF06979 .......Henry Sizemore b. 1810 and d.1877
must be the father of Henry William Sizemore

Could you please clarify what kind of “match” you are referring to?

At your Leisure, No pressure
:)

Technically: Henry with id:YF06979 is haplo cts54, so all clades below that are a match by default.

- or, Does it means that Henry is presumed to be at least Z19945?

- If not, what’s the meaning of a “Match” detached by 2-3 steps away from the Final clade?

https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-CTS54*/
 
Could you please clarify what kind of “match” you are referring to?

At your Leisure, No pressure
:)

Technically: Henry with id:YF06979 is haplo cts54, so all clades below that are a match by default.

- or, Does it means that Henry is presumed to be at least Z19945?

- If not, what’s the meaning of a “Match” detached by 2-3 steps away from the Final clade?

https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-CTS54*/

he is a match to me in yfull.......but his CTS54 has a * behind it in yfull, indicating a dead line or unfinished line..........as I said , he seems to be not a sizemore , but a powell
search net for powell sizemore DNA ........
I do report if they match or do not match me in being close to our hapo line
 
Hey guys, do you have any idea why someone would get the result of belonging to T haplogroup without any subclade info from 23andme?
 
Hey guys, do you have any idea why someone would get the result of belonging to T haplogroup without any subclade info from 23andme?

It would be very interesting to know where he comes from.
 
Salento, he has ancestors from Turkey and northwest Iran if that helps.

Unless something has changed, I am only aware of one Man with a basic Y T (T-M184) still alive, and he’s from Armenia.

250px-Armenia_-_Location_Map_%282013%29_-_ARM_-_UNOCHA.svg.png
 
My applologies, I made a mistake. It is his mtdna Haplogroup T that does not have a sub-clade. He has no Armenian ancestors and does not have any matches from Armenia. He is an Iranian Azeri.
 
Last edited:
@salento

Has there been a change to the T tree in ftdna
I was told that T1a3 became T1a2 ...and the T1a2 merged with T1a1

someone said I am now
T1a1b1a1a1b2 - Z19945*

I am also positive CTS6071 like CL23 ( he is also T1a1 branch now )


can you check ?
 
@salento
Has there been a change to the T tree in ftdna
I was told that T1a3 became T1a2 ...and the T1a2 merged with T1a1
someone said I am now
T1a1b1a1a1b2 - Z19945*
I am also positive CTS6071 like CL23 ( he is also T1a1 branch now )
can you check ?

We both match CL23 as positive at CTS6071.

At FT they were doing something to the Tree this morning.

At Isogg CTS8862 it is still under T1a2 (Strangely, I could swear T1a1, became T1a2 after refreshing the page, unless ...)


dnZbq3W.jpg




10 minutes later. Notice that L446 shifted from Gold to Green.

0DHePR6.jpg



Part of the Tree, see if you can figure out if they merged.

9G3XBre.jpg
 
We both match CL23 as positive at CTS6071.
At FT they were doing something to the Tree this morning.
At Isogg CTS8862 it is still under T1a2 (Strangely, I could swear T1a1, became T1a2 after refreshing the page, unless ...)
dnZbq3W.jpg


10 minutes later. Notice that L446 shifted from Gold to Green.

0DHePR6.jpg


Part of the Tree, see if you can figure out if they merged.

9G3XBre.jpg
CL23 was also changed to T1a1 in this link of ancient T-M184 samples ............see the red one
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/es/ma...Qdzeq6KtINU9gNaM4AcPxkF1rlddOFs#4/41.77/28.96
.
BTW, purple ones seem origins of marker of the ones that do not belong to T1a1, T1a2 or T1a3
 
just check in yfull ...they have no amended the tree yet..............but have given me a new SNP branching out from Z19945
.
Haplogroup SNP
− YF07608 BY32027 / Y70078
− T-Z19945 Z19945
.
.
Have to wait and see if the BY32027 is ok......this is due to Yfull going from HG19 to HG38 system
 
CL23 was also changed to T1a1 in this link of ancient T-M184 samples ............see the red one
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/es/ma...Qdzeq6KtINU9gNaM4AcPxkF1rlddOFs#4/41.77/28.96
.
BTW, purple ones seem origins of marker of the ones that do not belong to T1a1, T1a2 or T1a3

Unless they use a different nomenclature standard. Maybe?


... Collegno 1350 yBP ( Early Medieval ) Longobard Period



CL23[FONT=fira_sans] ( 1310 -1380 yBP )[/FONT]
[FONT=fira_sans]Phase: I[/FONT]
[FONT=fira_sans]Y-DNA: [/FONT]T1a1b1a1-CTS6071
[FONT=fira_sans]mtDNA: [/FONT]H
[FONT=fira_sans]Strontium Sr: Non-local[/FONT]
[FONT=fira_sans]Coverage: 2,952[/FONT]
[FONT=fira_sans]Other IDs: COL001[/FONT]

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-06024-4

[FONT=fira_sans]doi [/FONT]https://doi.org/10.1038/s41467-01 ...
 
I did a deep dive into this paper and its supplementary material to get a better understanding.

CL23 (T-CTS6071 aka CTS933) and SZ36 (T-PF5620) were the only two Y-DNA T individuals found at the two Lombard burial sites dated to the mid 6th century CE -- CL23 from Collegno, Italy and SZ36 from Szólád, Hungary (Pannonia). Isotope ratio analyses showed they both were not local to the areas where they were buried. They were part of a genetically-distinct group of individuals that had mostly or entirely Southern European (SE) ancestry that was different than the Northern European (NE) Lombards that shared the cemetery. Their burial practices (lack of grave goods and plots being grouped together away from the Lombards) and nutritional data suggest they were of lower social status and did not really mix with the others.

At the Szólád site, all individuals seemed to be non-local, which is consistent with the highly mobile history of the Lombards and their launching point from this area to invade Italy in 568 CE.
"In summary, the small Longobard period cemetery from Szólád is the necropolis of a small, wealthy, highly mobile and population from the middle of the sixth century. In grave construction and grave goods at least two groups can be distinguished, which suggest the integration of different traditions. The small population settled for only one generation in Pannonia at the shore of Lake Balaton and therefore appears to have been very mobile..." (Supplemental Information).​
The paper suggested that these SE individuals (including SZ36) could've migrated with the Lombards from elsewhere, but did not originate from the same area (different isotope ratio patterns). Supplemental info stated that the SE people could have still been from the area around Lake Balaton, but then went on to say that they were not local and migrated to the area with the Lombards (a little confusing). This could mean that these SE peoples could have been serfs, slaves, or non-Germanic soldiers in their mixed ranks (very difficult to know at this point ... or to even guess).

The Collegno site showed greater evidence of multigenerational family burials, hinting at the settlement and dominance of the Lombards in this region. The majority of those buried here were local, even the SE peoples who were suggested to be actual residents due to their genomic closeness to modern populations in the area. Only two SE individuals were non-local, one of them being CL23 (our main interest) who was from phase I: 570/590 to 630/640 CE and had high (>70%) Tuscan and Iberian (TSI+IBS) ancestry, one of a few in the cemetery to have this background. No inferences were made regarding his origin but what we can conclude was that he was of lower status, high Southern European ancestry, and not local to the area around Collegno.

The best I could do to get a better understanding of CL23 was looking at the PCA plots comparing ancestry to reference samples provided in the Supplemental Information. This was difficult to do and I realize this can lead to misleading conclusions.

  • Supp Figure 23: CL23 clusters among samples of the overlap area between Switzerland and Italy while SZ36 clusters with Italian samples. Additionally, CL23 is closest to HUs2 and SZ36 HUs 3, both Bronze Age Hungarian samples.
  • Supp Figure 25: CL23 clustered more with Bergamo, Tuscan, and Bulgarian with some proximity to Iberian while SZ36 was strongly Tuscan with close proximity to Albanian.
Supplementary Data 4 calculated the most likely modern population assigned to each ancient sample test using PAA. CL23 was assigned Portugal (probability 0.13) and Bulgaria (0.31) while SZ36 was assigned France (0.45) or Tuscany (0.29). Just as a reinforcement to what the paper stated, the local SE people buried at Collegno (CL25, 30, 31, 38, and 121) match Italy the most and with high probability (0.66-0.97), supporting their actual local origin.

This is what I could get from it. Feel free to review the sources and get a handle on the info (it is a lot).

Sources:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-06024-4.pdf
https://www.gnxp.com/WordPress/2018/02/21/the-folk-migration-during-the-age-of-migrations/
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...hungary-cemeteries-ancient-rome-a8532796.html
 
Just realized this was discussed in the other T thread as well, interesting that other genetic comparisons and analyses showed him as more like a North Italian Bell Beaker.
 
The hierarchy in letters of the SNPs maybe is changing because NEW Z19859 is above L131.

M70 - T1a
—L162 - T1a1
-—Z19859 - T..???
-——L131 - was/is T1a2???
———L1255 -was/is T1a3???

Used to be:
M70 - T1a
—L162 - T1a1
-—L131 - T1a2
——L1255 T1a3
 
Just realized this was discussed in the other T thread as well, interesting that other genetic comparisons and analyses showed him as more like a North Italian Bell Beaker.

yes, CL23 is the closest sample from the lombard paper that plots next to the North-Italian bell Beaker sample
 
The hierarchy in letters of the SNPs maybe is changing because NEW Z19859 is above L131.

M70 - T1a
—L162 - T1a1
-—Z19859 - T..???
-——L131 - was/is T1a2???
———L1255 -was/is T1a3???

from T project admin...............Z19859 sits right in the middle of DYZ19 region which is harder to sequence. In Yfull one has a mixture of C and G reads.
haplogroup T2 ( Bhutan and armenia ) and T1a3 ( oldest origin in south Kazakhstan ) are clean of the SNP , while T1a1 and T1a2 have mixed reads for this.
So, Z19859 could be equal to M70 ..........Z19859 is over 16k years ago

.
meaning that T2-PH110 and T1a3 are completly split from T1a1 and T1a2 as they do have SNP Z19859 .................maybe this connection is why it looks like they will merge T1a2 into T1a1
 

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