Where is this map? I doubt it. Perhaps at the lower end of this range in the districts bordering Armenia, but I don't think so as a whole.

the map is in R1b article. in Turkmenistan it shows very high figures too yet some say its mistaken with hg Q but I say how come they mistake it for hg Q which is so different you can't just mistake different haplogroups in tests so it must be R1b. I have seen some Turkmen pictures they do resemble Eurasian populations more.
by the the way in Kabul, Afghanistan in general there are big populations of Iranic people do they share similar mixture with Iranians( R1b, J2,...) or not? I think they(we) could be R1b-heavy too plz provide me some links anyone.
 
Cogotas looks like a dead lineage, although its nearest modern relatives are also Iberian (estimated split point - late 3rd millennium BC, per yfull). It has an autosomal profile that looks similar to other Bronze Age Iberia (a mix of Northern Bell Beaker, El Portalon and Iberian Neolithic). Is this a trick question?

Not necessarily a trick question, but a proof that a dead lineage from a modern branch can be prehistorically in his modern distribution. All R1b from Ukraine are mostly Z2103, even tho their branch is not the one found in Yamnaya, its related just the TMRCA is younger than Yamnaya just as the Cogotas one. Probably there will never be ancient dna from some Armenian R1b of Chalcolithic that already have the modern living branches found there.
 
the map is in R1b article. in Turkmenistan it shows very high figures too yet some say its mistaken with hg Q but I say how come they mistake it for hg Q which is so different you can't just mistake different haplogroups in tests so it must be R1b. I have seen some Turkmen pictures they do resemble Eurasian populations more.
by the the way in Kabul, Afghanistan in general there are big populations of Iranic people do they share similar mixture with Iranians( R1b, J2,...) or not? I think they(we) could be R1b-heavy too plz provide me some links anyone.

If i remember from a few years, the Turkmenistan R1b falls mostly in the eastern R1b-M73 branch not Z2103.
 
the map is in R1b article. in Turkmenistan it shows very high figures too yet some say its mistaken with hg Q but I say how come they mistake it for hg Q which is so different you can't just mistake different haplogroups in tests so it must be R1b. I have seen some Turkmen pictures they do resemble Eurasian populations more.
by the the way in Kabul, Afghanistan in general there are big populations of Iranic people do they share similar mixture with Iranians( R1b, J2,...) or not? I think they(we) could be R1b-heavy too plz provide me some links anyone.
The only likely Z2103 I can find in Turkmenistan is of the Steppic branch, rather than the South Caucasus/Iranian branches. It is very similar to samples from Ukraine and Belarus, and my guess is that it is of relatively recent Russian paternal ancestry.
 
Not necessarily a trick question, but a proof that a dead lineage from a modern branch can be prehistorically in his modern distribution. All R1b from Ukraine are mostly Z2103, even tho their branch is not the one found in Yamnaya, its related just the TMRCA is younger than Yamnaya just as the Cogotas one. Probably there will never be ancient dna from some Armenian R1b of Chalcolithic that already have the modern living branches found there.
Of course, it is possible that a dead lineage can be found in a similar location to its most recent modern relatives - all other things being equal, this is the most likely location for it to be found. But when a sample of a dead lineage is found in a different location to its most recent modern relatives, this does not tell us much, particularly when the coalescence points of each of its most recent modern relatives are distributed over a very wide area.

An interesting ancient Z2103 sample is I5884 (2,800 BC) from Ukraine, which has some inconsistent-looking SNP readings suggestive of one of its South Caucasus branches - the one that I estimate was most recently-related to the Steppe branch. It is what would usually be called an 'outlier', but most people cannot bring themselves to call it this, as they are so wedded to the idea of Z2103 being synonymous with the Steppe and not an outlier to it. It has virtually no CHG, a huge amount of WHG, plenty of EHG and Anatolian, and appears to bear little autosomal similarity to Yamnayan Z2103 samples. How would you suggest it might have got there?
 
Your individual genetic signature looks way more like what an original Bell Beaker should be than a prehistoric Armenian, dont know where you want to go here. It then means that the South Caucasus branches came from Steppe following your own reasoning, just that they were slightly different than the general Yamnaya signature. Wich funny enough, gives even way more credit to the Balkans road hypothesis for Anatolians and Armenians comparing it to the Caucasus road hypothesis.
 
Your individual genetic signature looks way more like what an original Bell Beaker should be than a prehistoric Armenian, dont know where you want to go here. It then means that the South Caucasus branches came from Steppe following your own reasoning, just that they were slightly different than the general Yamnaya signature. Wich funny enough, gives even way more credit to the Balkans road hypothesis for Anatolians and Armenians comparing it to the Caucasus road hypothesis.

I'm not going anywhere in particular, and am not tied to any particular viewpoint. As I say, I'm just curious.

This is only one sample, so we cannot conclude too much from it - but its signature must have come from somewhere, and it does not seem to fit at all with Yamnaya. (If it acquired its EHG from any variety of Yamnaya, it would have far more CHG in it.)

I've had a hard time simulating a close fit to any combination of ancient populations, but coming at it laterally I've just found a very close fit indeed - Eastern Baltic Neolithic + Balkan Chalcolithic + Globular Amphora. This would suggest that it probably was an outsider to its Dnieper location, with all three best-fit ancestral components coming from a similar longitude to its West. My guess is that it was brought from the Dniester with GAC not long beforehand (i.e. post-3,000 BC). The question is - from where would it have acquired its Z2103? As GAC looks to be principally an I2a population, the Eastern Baltic and the Eastern Balkans look the only likely candidates.
 
I'm not going anywhere in particular, and am not tied to any particular viewpoint. As I say, I'm just curious.

This is only one sample, so we cannot conclude too much from it - but its signature must have come from somewhere, and it does not seem to fit at all with Yamnaya. (If it acquired its EHG from any variety of Yamnaya, it would have far more CHG in it.)

I've had a hard time simulating a close fit to any combination of ancient populations, but coming at it laterally I've just found a very close fit indeed - Eastern Baltic Neolithic + Balkan Chalcolithic + Globular Amphora. This would suggest that it probably was an outsider to its Dnieper location, with all three best-fit ancestral components coming from a similar longitude to its West. My guess is that it was brought from the Dniester with GAC not long beforehand (i.e. post-3,000 BC). The question is - from where would it have acquired its Z2103? As GAC looks to be principally an I2a population, the Eastern Baltic and the Eastern Balkans look the only likely candidates.

Things to remind is that Eastern Europe is huge, very huge. Z2103 probably have a more eastern distribution while I2a2 have a western one. But that's only taking accounts samples we have, and this individual could be a more western individual with an eastern lineage.
 
Things to remind is that Eastern Europe is huge, very huge. Z2103 probably have a more eastern distribution while I2a2 have a western one. But that's only taking accounts samples we have, and this individual could be a more western individual with an eastern lineage.
I suspect his lineage went around the Pontic and through the Balkans/Carpathians with L51, then retreated up the Dniester admixing with WHG on the Chalcolithic collapse. It is probably quite distantly related to Yamnaya.
 

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