When did Homo sapiens first reach Southeast Asia and Sahul?

Jovialis

Jovialis

Advisor
Messages
9,306
Reaction score
5,856
Points
113
Ethnic group
Italian
Y-DNA haplogroup
R-PF7566 (R-Y227216)
mtDNA haplogroup
H6a1b7
Abstract

Anatomically modern humans (Homo sapiens, AMH) began spreading across Eurasia from Africa and adjacent Southwest Asia about 50,000–55,000 years ago (ca. 50–55 ka). Some have argued that human genetic, fossil, and archaeological data indicate one or more prior dispersals, possibly as early as 120 ka. A recently reported age estimate of 65 ka for Madjedbebe, an archaeological site in northern Sahul (Pleistocene Australia–New Guinea), if correct, offers what might be the strongest support yet presented for a pre–55-ka African AMH exodus. We review evidence for AMH arrival on an arc spanning South China through Sahul and then evaluate data from Madjedbebe. We find that an age estimate of >50 ka for this site is unlikely to be valid. While AMH may have moved far beyond Africa well before 50–55 ka, data from the region of interest offered in support of this idea are not compelling.

http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2018/07/31/1808385115

https://phys.org/news/2018-08-abori...e=menu&utm_medium=link&utm_campaign=item-menu
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jebel_Faya

Although no human fossils have been found at Jebel Faya, Armitage and others have argued that the Assemblage C artifacts, dated to 125,000 years BP, were produced by anatomically modern humans (AMH). This is because Assemblage C resembles contemporary east and northeast African technology more than the technology found at sites elsewhere on the Arabian peninsula.[1] As a result, the evidence at Jebel Faya has been used to support the idea of an early dispersal of AMH from the Horn of Africa across southern Arabia and into southern Asia.[11]

IMO they were modern humans.
And some of their ofspring made it to Sahul.
But they were a dead end.
Almost all of their DNA went extinct,
except, maybe they were Basal Eurasians.
The 65 ka shoreline of Sahul is now drowned by the sea and most people then lived along the shoreline.
It isn't so hard to understand.
 
Jovialis said:
Unfortunately, it was behind a paywall. But I included a link to a phys.org article on it.
Click to expand...
their argument against 65 ka Madjedbebe is the extent to which this contrasts with the sudden wave of archaeological sites that sweep across Australia shortly after 50,000 years ago

I recall that the 65 ka dating was done thouroughly and scientifically

but maybe it bothers those who claim the aboriginees descent from the first arrivals in Sahul, which would not be the case as their Y-DNA clades are only 45 ka old
 
IMO origin of humans must be Southeast asia or Central Asia because the genetic variety is much in these areas too - in africa you find only hg E nothing else! I dont know why scientist stick to this Africa theory, if chinese came from indochina indians came from indochina europeans were in siberia in 25000 bc natives came from indochina then why Africa theory weighs more? and nobody knows how they decide hg genealgies yet very much so there should be more studies.
 
Last edited:
For instance if mutations for fair skin be taken as bases for diffrentiating between haplogroups then everything comes into good order yet I dont know why scientists take the current SNP mutations as bases to make the current hg genealogies?
 
^^No, there isn't only hap "E" in Africa, there's A and B. Haplogroups have nothing to do with pigmentation snps. That's autosomal information. Otherwise, we wouldn't have black R1b people in Africa and white E1b1b1 and Q people in Europe.

I suggest you read some more.
 
Angela said:
^^No, there isn't only hap "E" in Africa, there's A and B. Haplogroups have nothing to do with pigmentation snps. That's autosomal information. Otherwise, we wouldn't have black R1b people in Africa and white E1b1b1 and Q people in Europe.

I suggest you read some more.
Click to expand...


A and B = Black

E = Brown

R = White
 
holderlin said:
A and B = Black

E = Brown

R = White
Click to expand...

There are White and Black E as well.

Brown B in Iran.

Black R in Africa and India (Black in the South, Brown in the North).


So this sort of classification of haplogroups with skin color is just wrong.
 
Parafarne said:
IMO origin of humans must be Southeast asia or Central Asia because the genetic variety is much in these areas too - in africa you find only hg E nothing else! I dont know why scientist stick to this Africa theory, if chinese came from indochina indians came from indochina europeans were in siberia in 25000 bc natives came from indochina then why Africa theory weighs more? and nobody knows how they decide hg genealgies yet very much so there should be more studies.
Click to expand...

First of all, Africa has more than 70% of the autosomal genetic diversity of the entire humankind. You can't analyze the genetic diversity of humans based on Y-DNA haplogroups. Autosomal DNA is what really tells the difference, especially as Y-DNA haplogroups are so easily subject to "booms and busts". Besides, even the Y-DNA haplogroups of Africa highly suggest that it is, if not the only origin of humankind, certainly the most ancient continuous homeland for modern humans. E is not "just a haplogroup", and Africa actually has two other haplogroups virtually nonexistent elsewhere and which are much, much more ancient than all the present-day Y-DNA haplogroups found in Eurasia: A and B. You must look at the dates, not the number of haplogroups, because they are nothing but scientific terminology. For example, two different clades of E1b1b (not even E, I mean the much more specific E1b1b) - E-V68 and E-Z827 and are in fact as ancient as the entire R1 haplogroup (R1* + R1a + R1b). And that's just E1b1b, not E (E-M96) as a whole. Haplogroup E dates to ~65,000 kya, well before any of the Eurasian haplogroups existed even in their most basal forms. And it isn't even necessary to explore the very old and basal origins of haplogroups B (also ~65,000 kya) and A (even older in its most basal form, ~250,000 kya) commonly found in Africa.
 
holderlin said:
A and B = Black

E = Brown

R = White
Click to expand...

Are you serious or is it some early cocktails speaking?

Perhaps you didn't get the memos:

R1b pastoralists from Chad:
image_425.jpg


Richard Attenborough: something like 87% of the tested Attenboroughs carry it.
Richard+Attenborough+Casino+Royale+World+Premiere+jZvmb6zPEDYl.jpg



Then of course there's all the Greeks, Albanians, other Bakanites and Italians who are E-V13. They're brown too? How about Adolph Hitler? Is he white enough for you?

How about the E1b1b1 Grahams and Lindsays and Douglas' and Crawfords and Eliots and on and on of the Border Reiver families who carry it,or the men of Abergele in Wales?


Did you also forget Villabruna was "brown" and R1b?
 
Napoleon's y-DNA was an "E" as well.
 
Misinformation is never cool.
Censorship is not cool either.
That’s a dilemma. :)
How about adding “BS” at the bottom of an obvious false post.
 
Ygorcs said:
First of all, Africa has more than 70% of the autosomal genetic diversity of the entire humankind. You can't analyze the genetic diversity of humans based on Y-DNA haplogroups. Autosomal DNA is what really tells the difference, especially as Y-DNA haplogroups are so easily subject to "booms and busts". Besides, even the Y-DNA haplogroups of Africa highly suggest that it is, if not the only origin of humankind, certainly the most ancient continuous homeland for modern humans. E is not "just a haplogroup", and Africa actually has two other haplogroups virtually nonexistent elsewhere and which are much, much more ancient than all the present-day Y-DNA haplogroups found in Eurasia: A and B. You must look at the dates, not the number of haplogroups, because they are nothing but scientific terminology. For example, two different clades of E1b1b (not even E, I mean the much more specific E1b1b) - E-V68 and E-Z827 and are in fact as ancient as the entire R1 haplogroup (R1* + R1a + R1b). And that's just E1b1b, not E (E-M96) as a whole. Haplogroup E dates to ~65,000 kya, well before any of the Eurasian haplogroups existed even in their most basal forms. And it isn't even necessary to explore the very old and basal origins of haplogroups B (also ~65,000 kya) and A (even older in its most basal form, ~250,000 kya) commonly found in Africa.
Click to expand...
But C, D were too old hgs as was hg F yet there were more mutations in GHIJK downstream so this is why you find young hgs like R1, O, N, Q when you see autosomal maps in here(Eupedia) then why african admixture is the only major one in africa and others are extremely rare so I commented based on those maps, Europe is much more diverse and in indochina you find ancestor hg of R which is very interesting too.
 
Salento said:
Misinformation is never cool.
Censorship is not cool either.
That’s a dilemma. :)
How about adding “BS” at the bottom of an obvious false post.
Click to expand...

Sorry? I'm not aware of anyone being censored here. Calling bogus information bogus is not censorship.
 
Angela said:
Sorry? I'm not aware of anyone being censored here. Calling bogus information bogus is not censorship.
Click to expand...
My comment was meant to show Empathy and Support toward the Mods, when faced with inaccurate, and false posts.
I wasn’t criticizing the Mods. :)
 
Thank you for reminding me that I have a voice.There's always so much content provided that sharing an idea can seem more like a spec of the overall excitement and passion of just having an opportunity to belong. truth is I usually find myself more involved in the daily research that I'm always hungry for more. African Exodus and how it fits in the overall picture challenge where and when humanity begins and hopefully not ends. I've made sharing more important recently and I'm looking forward to being a part of the conversation. Thank you for helping me to still count.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

This thread has been viewed 9476 times.

Back
Top