People in the caucus are not very light sure about 1-10% have blonde hair and it is true they have almost no European blood but actulley the ones with blonde hair have a pretty good amount of european admixture in austomnal DNA i can show u specifics in another post if u would like. Also the austomnal DNA from Indo iranien remains and the fact they had majority blonde hair all points to a european origin no way do they come form the caucus possibly genetically they orignally came from north western russia 8,000ybp. Their culture spread from Russian yamna culture not Maykop.
So what? There was some BACKmigration of tribes from Northern Caucasus /Yamna Horizon into Kurdistan. Those folks brought European ‘R1a-Z283’, ‘I2’ and maybe ‘E’ to Kurdistan. I’m not denying this migration wave!

But the fact is that there is NO I2a, R1a-Z283 and E in Central Asia.


You’re wrong again. Most NATIVES of Caucasian Mountains have fair feature. And they’re predominantly West Asian. So there is a correlation between fair features and a West Asian aDNA-component!
 
Sumerian GOLDEN Bull

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Maykop GOLDEN Bull

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yes maykop had mid eastern connections and indo european language may have spread from caucus to russia. But how do u know if Maykop did not get their indo european parts like a kurgen burail from Ukriane and Russians who they traded with alot. Indo European culture boomed in Russia and Ukriaine 6,000-8,000ybp. almost all Indo European languages spread from russia and Ukriane.
 
i meant to say S224 is the ancestor of asian Z93 and European Z283
 
i meant to say S224 is the ancestor of asian Z93 and European Z283
But there's no EVIDENCE for it, that S224 is from Europe at all! Taranis meant L664...
 
So what? There was some BACKmigration of tribes from Northern Caucasus /Yamna Horizon into Kurdistan. Those folks brought European ‘R1a-Z283’, ‘I2’ and maybe ‘E’ to Kurdistan. I’m not denying this migration wave!

But the fact is that there is NO I2a, R1a-Z283 and E in Central Asia.


You’re wrong again. Most NATIVES of Caucasian Mountains have fair feature. And they’re predominantly West Asian. So there is a correlation between fair features and a West Asian aDNA-component!

here is a map of light hair in europe and light eyes remeber that idno iranien remains in central asia had 60% light hair and 70% light eyes look how low the caucus area is.
images
images


I never said Cimmeranis migrated from central asia. first about 5,000ybp indo iraniens migrated from russia then about 3,000ybp migrated back to russia and Ukraine. Cimmermans came from Ukriane that is why i think kurds have such high amount of Paleolithic eastern european I2a1b. i dont think the medes are a possible source of I2a1b in kurds.
 
yes maykop had mid eastern connections and indo european language may have spread from caucus to russia. But how do u know if Maykop did not get their indo european parts like a kurgen burail from Ukriane and Russians who they traded with alot. Indo European culture boomed in Russia and Ukriaine 6,000-8,000ybp. almost all Indo European languages spread from russia and Ukriane.
Once again, Maykop AND Yamna are much older that these cultures in Easter Europe. Also, according to me PROTO-IEans that migrated into the Caucasus (Maykop Horizon) were the same folks that migrated into the Central Asia/Indus Valley!
 
also R1* is Mongoloid.

that is quite a conclusion, but at 25000 years ago, he definitely was very dark and probably had few mongoloid features, which makes him look more like an Indian from India today. Note that when Colombus met Native Americans, he thought he reached India.

Taken from Wikipedia:
North or south of 46 degrees latitude – e.g. in Canada, Mongolia, Russia, Scandinavia, and Western Europe – dark-skinned people could not produce enough vitamin D, and humans settlement only occurred after the development of light skin pigmentation[61] Polar regions of the Northern Hemisphere receive little UV radiation and even less vitamin B producing UVB for most of the year. These regions were uninhabited by humans until about 12 000 years ago.
 
here is a map of light hair in europe and light eyes remeber that idno iranien remains in central asia had 60% light hair and 70% light eyes look how low the caucus area is.
images
images


I never said Cimmeranis migrated from central asia. first about 5,000ybp indo iraniens migrated from russia then about 3,000ybp migrated back to russia and Ukraine. Cimmermans came from Ukriane that is why i think kurds have such high amount of Paleolithic eastern european I2a1b. i dont think the medes are a possible source of I2a1b in kurds.
I'm not denying that I2a is from the Cimmerians. But I'm just saying that Cimmerians were not really Iranic people. Also, who's saying that the mummies in Central Asia are (proto-)Indo-Iranian? And about which mummies are you actually talking about? If you mean those Scythian mummies, Scythians were NOT Indo-Iranian at all. Indo-Iranians lived thousands of years before the Scythians. Scythians were actually (modern) Iranic tribes HEAVELY mixed with the NATIVE Steppes peoples!
 
Once again, Maykop AND Yamna are much older that these cultures in Easter Europe.

I said that Yamna gave birth to Indo Iranien cultures Adrnovo, Afanasevo, and Sinishta which eventulley spread into india. Alo that proto Balto Slavic culture Corded ware also came from Yamna.

Also, according to me PROTO-IEans that migrated into the Caucasus (Maykop Horizon) were the same folks that migrated into the Central Asia/Indus Valley!

There is absoultly no evidence of that. Just because Indus valley seems mid eastern does not mean the indo iranien part of them is orignalley mid eastern plus i doubt they had much to do with mid eastern cultures. Like Hindus in india today are very diff from muslims but muslim culture has litte to do with sumerians so i dont know. There is no evidence of the indo iranien language migrating from the caucus how do u explain the sytheins. Indo Iraniens come from Afanasevo, Adronovo, and Sinshta cultures. just look at what wikpedia page on Indo iraniens says it says nothing of the caucus mountains http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Iranians.
 
Proto-Indo-Europeans that mograted into the Maykop Horizon and Central Asia / Indus Valley belonged mostly to J2a (& G2a) folks !
 
I said that Yamna gave birth to Indo Iranien cultures Adrnovo, Afanasevo, and Sinishta which eventulley spread into india. Alo that proto Balto Slavic culture Corded ware also came from Yamna.
Maybe and maybe NOT. You don't have evidences about this either!
Once again, Afanasevo is NOT Indo-IRANIAN, but Tocharian ! There’re many indications that Tocharians (R1a-Z93) came actually from West Asia. I'm not sure about other cultures.

Wikipedia is not reliable. Wikipedia page on Indo-Iranians is written by a bunch of amateurs!

There's some of hg. J2a in Central Asia and the Indus Valley. According to me those folks from West Asia brought Indo-European language to Central Asia (the same folks that brought Indo-European language into the Maykop Horizon)..
 
I'm not denying that I2a is from the Cimmerians.

So the I2a Kurdish conversation is done we agree on where it came from.

But I'm just saying that Cimmerians were not really Iranic people.

true but they defintley could have been. They lived right next to the iNdo Iranien sythiens and had similar culture and where described as light haired like sythiens and tocherians and early indo Iranian remains and not like modern people in that area.

Also, who's saying that the mummies in Central Asia are (proto-)Indo-Iranian? And about which mummies are you actually talking about?

The Andronovo, Afanasvo, and sintashta cultures where very very early Indo Iraniens. the Tarium mummies some are 4,000 years old they where a mix of European and east asian the european came from the first Indo iranien speakers because they came from russia. 4,000 years ago is before Indo Iranians ever came to India so why where they in west china before india if they migrated from the caucus through iran.

If you mean those Scythian mummies, Scythians were NOT Indo-Iranian at all. Indo-Iranians lived thousands of years before the Scythians. Scythians were actually (modern) Iranic tribes HEAVELY mixed with the NATIVE Steppes peoples!

Sytheins where Indo iranien this has been known from historian since like the 1800's. We know this because of some writting we have of their language., Their culture decends from Indo iranien cultures that existed in asia 2,000 years before them. Also we have Y DNA, mtDNA, hair color, and eye color from tagar sytheins and indo iraniens from 4,000 and 3,800ybp all of those actgories where a match so we pretty much know for a fact sytheins where indo iranien.

I dont now what u mean by modern Iranic tribes if u mean iran sytheins where nothing like modern iraniens. Phiscalley they where white and had mainly blonde hair and light eyes and where also known for red hair. There is no doubt in the world that they originally genetically came from Europe. They stayed did not inetr marry a whole lot with other people because DNA from Adrnovo culture from 3,800ybp had nearly identical Y DNA, mtDNA, hair color, and eye color to less than 2,000 year old Sythein remains so for about 2,000 years they almost did not inter marry at all.

But the ones in chian and siberia inter married a ton that is why tarium mummies had mtDNA C4 and alot of black hair(almost no European, mid easterns, and north africans have true black hair). Also why R1a still exists at over 40% in south siberia today. Also sytheins and other Indo Iranians where almost completely killed off by migrating Turkic trbes from eastern asia about 2,000-2,500ybp.
 
Maybe and maybe NOT. You don't have evidences about this either!
Once again, Afanasevo is NOT Indo-IRANIAN, but Tocharian ! There’re many indications that Tocharians (R1a-Z93) came actually from West Asia. I'm not sure about other cultures.

Wikipedia is not reliable. Wikipedia page on Indo-Iranians is written by a bunch of amateurs!

There's some of hg. J2a in Central Asia and the Indus Valley. According to me those folks from West Asia brought Indo-European language to Central Asia (the same folks that brought Indo-European language into the Maykop Horizon)..

why are u so stubborn about this. Experts have believed what i just said since th 1950's people who study the culture for a living. Now we have DNA from those cultures and they had R1a1a not a suprise. Also R1a Z93 is NOT I REPEAT NOT FROM WEST ASIA THE ONLY EVIDENCE IS POPULATION DIVERSTY WHICH IS NOT THE BEST WAY TO FIND WHERE A HAPLOGROUP ORIGNATED because if a population in west Asia or india is bigger than in europe then it will have more diversty even though it is younger.

the tocherians where Indo iranien we have ancient writting from Tocherians. THERE IS NO EVIDENCE WEST ASIA SPREAD INDO EUROPEAN LANGUAGES AT ALL. it was probably a mainly west asian group of indo iraniens who brought it to india but they got the indo iranien lnaguage from people from central asia who got it from russia.

How do u explain the sytheins they had nothing to do with west asia yet they where indo iranien and had nearly identical y dna, mtdna, hair color, and eye color to adrnovo remains.
 
Proto-Indo-Europeans that mograted into the Maykop Horizon and Central Asia / Indus Valley belonged mostly to J2a (& G2a) folks !

where is the J2a and G2a in central asia and areas indo iranien sytheins and tocherians lived.
 
Scythians were NOT INDO-Iranian, dude. Iranians evolved from INDO-Iranian, like Indo-Aryans evolved from Indo-Iranians.

What I mean is that Scythians were NOT PROTO-Iranians at all. They were just simply Iranians mixed with the native population in the Steppes.

Tarim Basin Mummies DNA is actually closer to the Greeks than to the Eastern Europeans. And I'm actually sure that those mummies belonged to Asian R1a-Z93 and not to European R1a-Z283! http://dienekes.blogspot.nl/2012/11/u7-in-rostov-scythians.html


Also modern Iranian populations are DIRECT descendatns of Ancient Iranic nations, like Sogdians, Parthians, Persians and the Medes.
Eastern Europeans have nothing to do with the Sogdians, Parthians, Persians and the Medes, period!
 
Of course they belonged to asia R1a Z93 because it was Indo Iraniens like them who brought it to asia. Indo Iranien IS A LANGUAGE it was named INdo Iranien by people in the 1800's because iraniens and Indians spoke it. The reason Indo European lanuages are called that is English figured out Indians spoke a related language to the ones in Europe and thought it was just Europe and India get it Indo European.

Sythiens spoke a Indo iranien language dont get it confused that u have to be Iranien or Indian to speak that type of language. Medes, Persians, Sogdians etc where later Indo iraniens they get their language from the same source as sytheins in CENTRAL ASIA AND SIBERIA NOT NOT WEST ASIA. I never said eastern Europeans had anything to do with those west asian speaking indo iraniens.

but pre historic russians have alot to do with them. Pre historic russians spoke the ancestral language of Indo iranien ten spread to central asia 5,000ybp. Many things happened and eventulley the language spread to around iran. This can also explain why Indo iraniens peaking people in the middle east and india have much higher amounts of european aust. DNA than Afro Asiatic speaking people in the mid east and north africa like arabs, egyptiens, or sarmartiens(decended from ancient Jews).
 
i undertsand but not all indo iraniens had J2a. There is no connection with Y DNA J and the spread of Indo european languages in Europe and asia. the Indo Iranien marker is R1a1a1b2 later they inter married with J2a people and then may have spread it in later migrations in india.
No, true J2a Iranians (Aryans) intermarried in Central Asia with Central Asian R1a-Z93. True Aryans were actually Bactrians, Sogdians, Parthians, Persians and the Medes.
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