G2a men share some common looks?

Do you think that these G2a men share some common looks?

  • They have many in common.

    Votes: 9 32.1%
  • They have some common.

    Votes: 10 35.7%
  • They have not.

    Votes: 9 32.1%

  • Total voters
    28
Apart the ethical matter, of course.

Yeah, the Western Caucasus is heavier in G-M201. Adygean perhaps has even more than Svans/Abkhazians? Btw, would be G2a1 more common in Georgia and G2a2 in NW? What's yours, if I may ask?

Thanks.
Yeah, probably a psycho (which would make him a sociopath too).

It's really amazing the variation in Italy, sometimes even in the same region. I think my paternal family is pretty different from my maternal family, for example. The former tend to be tall, black haired and brown eyed (inheritance of my father's paternal grandparent mainly), while the maternal are shorter and more Northern shifted (some of them even exaggeratedly, as an uncle): light haired and light eyed. I'm not knowledgeble in this matter, but I'd risk to say my paternal family is more shifted to (South) Balkan in looking? The maternal, on the other hand, more shifted to Austria/S. Germany? Both father and mother virtually full Venetians in ancestry, with a father's paternal grandmother being the exception, from Mantova province.

Hey, I remember him. I've watched Per Un Pugno di Dollari and Per Qualche Dollaro in Più - great Morricone, great Leone! :) I see he acted also in L'armata Brancaleone, but I confess I don't remember him in this one.

It's the same in my family. The distance, as the crow flies, between the Appennino Parmense and the Lunigiana is very small, less than 50 kilometers in some places? It's not even that far to the La Spezia of my maternal grandfather, whom my mother most resembles. Yet, my father and mother are completely different phenotypically. Both Italian, though. :)

I guess part of it is that some of the highest peaks of the Apennines lie between their ancestral homelands, but still...
 
Apart the ethical matter, of course.

Yeah, the Western Caucasus is heavier in G-M201. Adygean perhaps has even more than Svans/Abkhazians? Btw, would be G2a1 more common in Georgia and G2a2 in NW? What's yours, if I may ask?

Well Caucasus consists of tribes and it has a very rigid East-West divide. East being mostly J and West being G. the mix outside their native zones is probably the trickle and movement throughout the centuries. When we put results as "Georgia" being 30% etc it's a bit deceiving because Georgia is sort of a tiny Empire that breached the East/West divide. So it would be more accurate if we look at data on tribe by tribe basis. Last time I checked Among Svans the G2a was about to hit 80% which is highest of any group. You could find a lot of strands all over Caucasus that have Svan heritage, for example Ossetians seem to have links to Svan, this gave way to hypothesis that big part of Ossetians aren't really Alan but descended from Dvals(now extinct group closely related to Svans) who were a group inhabiting the area before Alans. It's likely that the tribe was assimilated by Alans during their heyday in north Caucasus.

Anyone who is remotely interested in the haplogroup G and it's history should pay close attention to testing of Svan people. It is a very strange and unique case, Highest density of G in the world with a lot of diversity and very old strands as well. Here's a nice article. https://sciencetrends.com/deep-history-caucasus-beginning-revealed-genetic-sequencing/

I'd like to start a separate thread about Svans, but due to me being a mere enthusiast and having close to 0 understanding of the actual genetics I'd ask someone more educated on the subject to do so. I'll gladly provide sources, and translate any Georgian/Russian when i find them.
 
Anyone who is remotely interested in the haplogroup G and it's history should pay close attention to testing of Svan people. It is a very strange and unique case, Highest density of G in the world with a lot of diversity and very old strands as well. Here's a nice article. https://sciencetrends.com/deep-history-caucasus-beginning-revealed-genetic-sequencing/

I've found the detailed study here. I do not understand much of the specialist terms, but I think the very large number of G2a haplotypes found in Svan could indicate the area as an outbreak of spreading this haplogrup through new subclades? I also rely these with the fact that in the Caucasus and especially in Georgia are a very high number of new born boys/girls in the ratio of 1,16.
 
It's the same in my family. The distance, as the crow flies, between the Appennino Parmense and the Lunigiana is very small, less than 50 kilometers in some places? It's not even that far to the La Spezia of my maternal grandfather, whom my mother most resembles. Yet, my father and mother are completely different phenotypically. Both Italian, though. :)
I guess part of it is that some of the highest peaks of the Apennines lie between their ancestral homelands, but still...
This regional diversity, like in Veneto for example, is not so surprising when it comes to Italy! Imo all these variations make it one of the most interesting countries also under a genetic point of view. Sometimes we notice relatively big variations even between siblings, but I stop here. Enough! :)

Well Caucasus consists of tribes and it has a very rigid East-West divide. East being mostly J and West being G. the mix outside their native zones is probably the trickle and movement throughout the centuries. When we put results as "Georgia" being 30% etc it's a bit deceiving because Georgia is sort of a tiny Empire that breached the East/West divide. So it would be more accurate if we look at data on tribe by tribe basis. Last time I checked Among Svans the G2a was about to hit 80% which is highest of any group. You could find a lot of strands all over Caucasus that have Svan heritage, for example Ossetians seem to have links to Svan, this gave way to hypothesis that big part of Ossetians aren't really Alan but descended from Dvals(now extinct group closely related to Svans) who were a group inhabiting the area before Alans. It's likely that the tribe was assimilated by Alans during their heyday in north Caucasus.
Anyone who is remotely interested in the haplogroup G and it's history should pay close attention to testing of Svan people. It is a very strange and unique case, Highest density of G in the world with a lot of diversity and very old strands as well. Here's a nice article. https://sciencetrends.com/deep-history-caucasus-beginning-revealed-genetic-sequencing/
I'd like to start a separate thread about Svans, but due to me being a mere enthusiast and having close to 0 understanding of the actual genetics I'd ask someone more educated on the subject to do so. I'll gladly provide sources, and translate any Georgian/Russian when i find them.
Nice clarifying, G2ian. Thanks!

I didn't know the frequency in them is that high. If Svans are related to Ossetians, then I assume they are mostly G2a1 (in Italy, I guess you find it mainly in Marche). The frequency of G2a among Shapsugs in Russia reaches almost that, btw, but they would be G2a2-U1 mainly, while the highest concentrations of G-M201 would have been found in Kazakhstan, among Madjars (86.7%) from Torgay area, and Argyns (Basmyl). These are G1, which highest diversity is found in Iran/E. Turkey.

Still about diversity, I'm not sure it's high in Svanetia. At least according to Rootsi et al, the SNP diversity (better than STR diversity imo) of G-M201 in Caucasus is low (in opposition to frequency), while it's high in Armenia (the highest, even if at relatively low frequencies), NW Iran and E. Turkey, so these areas are good candidates for the origin of the MRCA of G-M201, from ~26k years ago. As for the place of formation abt. 50k years ago, I definetely buy Bicicleur hypothesis, which states it would have formed closer to the (likely Eastern) area where GHIJK, HIJK etc. themselves formed also ~50k years ago. But in these cases the TMRCAs are close to the times of formation. It makes sense.
 
If Svans are related to Ossetians, then I assume they are mostly G2a1 (in Italy, I guess you find it mainly in Marche).
@G2ian @Gidai
Merely out of curiosity, I remember that someone registered, in the old YSearch, STR markers supposedly from Messi. They pointed to G2a1. Some people thought it was strange, since it's rare in Europe as a whole. Well, Barcelona's players did have their DNAs tested time ago, and his father's paternal grandfather was from Recanati-MC, Marche. If my memory serves, both Boattini (prediction based on STRs) and Ethnopedia show %s above traces for G2a1 in Macerata (~5%?) and Marche (also ~5% - access 2017 May), respectively, hard to find in other places in Europe, apparently. So in fact the result wouldn't be out of the place. Obviously, they may be fake, since any one could register STR markers in there and put whatever name. Still... Who knows!

That said, here is Messi (G2a1???)

Lionel_Messi_20180626.jpg


G2a-L293 Eupedia Map

Haplogroup-G2a-L293.png


Province of Macerata

500px-Macerata_in_Italy.svg.png


See also:
https://www.sportskeeda.com/football/barcelona-dna-testing-advantage-over-arsenal
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...s-prepare-Champions-League-clash-Arsenal.html
(However, these articles are from the beginning of 2016, while the supposed results of Messi were already in YSearch around 2015 July (when someone posted about it here in Eupedia. So, don't know!)

@Gidai
This is James Franciscus - from Planet of the Apes -, G2b (former G2c).

James_Franciscus_1977.JPG
 
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@Regio X
I think, Messi have the "aura" of a Caucasian or Svan(G2a1) men, but Franciscus also of an Englishman.
If they are both G2, we have for sure a common graaa...andfather with them some... 1000 generations ago.:)
 
@Regio X
I think, Messi have the "aura" of a Caucasian or Svan(G2a1) men, but Franciscus also of an Englishman.
If they are both G2, we have for sure a common graaa...andfather with them some... 1000 generations ago.:)
Franciscus is/was G2b. We just don't know about Messi. The register of his supposed results in YSearch preceded a bit the publicity that Barcelona's players tested their DNAs. Still, it's not enough for conclusions, obviously.

Yeah, according to YFull, G2a and G2b separated ~20800 years ago; G2a1 and G2a2, ~18100 years ago.
 
Many people from this film have close physiognomy to the South Carpathians peasants where all my grand-grandparents come from. I think that they also comes close to the physiognomy of many Balkan inhabitants and around the Black Sea.
 
Many people from this film have close physiognomy to the South Carpathians peasants where all my grand-grandparents come from. I think that they also comes close to the physiognomy of many Balkan inhabitants and around the Black Sea.
I agree, I noticed long time ago that some Balkan people look very similar to western Georgians. There must have been a relative group that survived on Balkans. Maykop traces perhaps ? They are known to have lived on the east side of Black sea but what would stop them from spreading across the western shores ? While they were researching Svan DNA they did find a few strands closely related to Balkans.
 
I agree, I noticed long time ago that some Balkan people look very similar to western Georgians. There must have been a relative group that survived on Balkans. Maykop traces perhaps ? They are known to have lived on the east side of Black sea but what would stop them from spreading across the western shores ? While they were researching Svan DNA they did find a few strands closely related to Balkans.
Very interesting!
So it is some amount of common DNA in the Balkans and Georgia. In addition to the latest data, in Romania we have a frequency of G2a of at least 7%, and mtDNA X2 over 5% that are rare in Europe but have the largest frequency in Georgia. X2 is only found in Druze in a larger proportion.
And I am really G2a and coincidentally... I have also mtDNA X2. :rolleyes:
 
Very interesting!
So it is some amount of common DNA in the Balkans and Georgia. In addition to the latest data, in Romania we have a frequency of G2a of at least 7%, and mtDNA X2 over 5% that are rare in Europe but have the largest frequency in Georgia. X2 is only found in Druze in a larger proportion.
And I am really G2a and coincidentally... I have also mtDNA X2. :rolleyes:
Could part of Vlachs have Pontic/Caucasian ancestry ? I know they were considered Latin but were they Latinized locals or resettled Romans ?

I wonder if there has been any anthropological research comparing Carpathians with Caucasians.
 
Very interesting!
So it is some amount of common DNA in the Balkans and Georgia. In addition to the latest data, in Romania we have a frequency of G2a of at least 7%, and mtDNA X2 over 5% that are rare in Europe but have the largest frequency in Georgia. X2 is only found in Druze in a larger proportion.
And I am really G2a and coincidentally... I have also mtDNA X2. :rolleyes:
Where have you tested? Are you G-P303* or G-P303 (no test further)?
 
Could part of Vlachs have Pontic/Caucasian ancestry ? I know they were considered Latin but were they Latinized locals or resettled Romans ?

I wonder if there has been any anthropological research comparing Carpathians with Caucasians.
I do not know about comparative studies between the Carpathians and the Caucasians. But it would be very interesting.
Aromanians or Vlachs are also G2a but not at great frequency. I'm thinking also of older links. People in the Cucuteni culture, more north and west of the Black Sea, could be a bridge? Recently it was discovered that they carried the G2a haplogrup in an overwhelming proportion. There is also the connection from the south, from Anatolia of course.
 
Angela, I'm from Georgia and I am well aware of how other Caucasians look as well and I can tell you that he does not look like a Caucasian. He has a Persian look to him, although if he had a slightly larger nose and/or a more pronounced brow ridge then he would pass as a Caucasian for sure.
 
I'm sure there are differences which locals can spot and outsiders can't.

The point is that some Iranians also have a "Caucasus" phenotype just as the "Caucasus" component is a big part of their genome. That phenotype spread throughout the Near East and beyond with the movement of people who carried it.

(If you were talking about Freddie Mercury, other than his terrible teeth, I think he's quite good looking. :) He has clean cut "pure" features and gorgeous eyes and hair, well, when he let it grow.)

data-uscita-film-freddie-mercury2.jpg


Also, as I've discovered from various population genetics papers, there's a lot of genetic diversity in Iran, which is bound to manifest in phenotypic diversity. They by no means all look like this.
 
I'm sure there are differences which locals can spot and outsiders can't.

The point is that some Iranians also have a "Caucasus" phenotype just as the "Caucasus" component is a big part of their genome. That phenotype spread throughout the Near East and beyond with the movement of people who carried it.

(If you were talking about Freddie Mercury, other than his terrible teeth, I think he's quite good looking. :) He has clean cut "pure" features and gorgeous eyes and hair, well, when he let it grow.)

Also, as I've discovered from various population genetics papers, there's a lot of genetic diversity in Iran, which is bound to manifest in phenotypic diversity. They by no means all look like this.
We're not disagreeing with you because we think he looks bad, no :) I just think he looks more European than Caucasian. I wouldn't be surprised if genetically he's mostly Indo-European with some middle eastern mix. Hell that kind of face is far more common in Europe and among European-Americans than in Caucasus. Don't confuse dark complexion with non European look. Armenians often Look more European than Caucasian if only their skin tones were lighter. For example Freddy reminds me of Andrew Lincoln more than any Georgian I've met.
View attachment 10763
 
We're not disagreeing with you because we think he looks bad, no :) I just think he looks more European than Caucasian. I wouldn't be surprised if genetically he's mostly Indo-European with some middle eastern mix. Hell that kind of face is far more common in Europe and among European-Americans than in Caucasus. Don't confuse dark complexion with non European look. Armenians often Look more European than Caucasian if only their skin tones were lighter. For example Freddy reminds me of Andrew Lincoln more than any Georgian I've met.
View attachment 10763

He may be unusual because he's of Parsi (as in Zoroastrian ) descent. As I said, there seems to be a lot of variation in Iran.

Girl from Zoroastrian village: She looks European to me. Other Zoroastrians definitely don't.

26128701042_4ce455aa41_b.jpg

Mobedyar-Graduation-2_cr.jpg


This is how they sometimes depict Zoroaster.
Zartosht01web.jpg


zoroaster002.jpg


Some non-Zoroastrian Iranians look quite European to me as well, but I don't think they're the norm.
237973-leila-hatami-iranian-actress-afp.jpg


Or, Freddie may be a one-off. I had no idea he wasn't European, perhaps Greek or something, until years after I first saw one of his videos.
6d83e123881e00db1882ee2bff58bd1d.jpg
 
He may be unusual because he's of Parsi (as in Zoroastrian ) descent. As I said, there seems to be a lot of variation in Iran.

Girl from Zoroastrian village: She looks European to me. Other Zoroastrians definitely don't.

26128701042_4ce455aa41_b.jpg
Holy macaroni that is the most Georgian looking non-Georgian woman I've ever seen.


Of Course. there is no such thing as "Iranian look" Iran is a mix of hundred different cultures and ethnicities. Including Millions of Georgians resettled by force throughout the centuries. Galiks and Mazandarans are also thought to be of Caucasian ancestry, whether they went willingly, as conquerors or as prisoners we will probably never know. Azeri, Armenian and Georgian ethnic groups still live in Iran. And that's just the ones that kept their culture, I imagine there are more who moved to cities and forgot their roots. as it happens.

I can't wait til most of the world genes are traced so we can get clearer picture... I'm pretty sure some Georgian tribes completely vanished due to warfare with Iranian and Proto Iranian kingdoms, Some of them were often forcefully resettled to Iran. Latest of such cases was in fact very very recently. Wiki has a good summary https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Georgians
 

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