Messapian - Albanian connection

King Arthas - The Great Lion of Messapia
Messapian epos of the 5th century b. C. based on the deeds of King Arthas the Great and the Lions of Messapia.
 
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Greater Messapia
Trailer of a docufiction
 
King Arthur,as a Balkan soldier

My etymology, from Latin artus,with the usual s-r rhotacism, Arturius,the name is supported by the Balkanic backgrounds ,see the Messapic Artas,Artoria gens .

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/artus#Latin

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-European/h₂er-

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artas_of_Messapia

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artoria_gens

Are you saying that the Name and part of the Legend of King Arthur could have been originally Inspired by King Artas of Messapia? :)
 
content


The Indo-European Languages

edited by Mate Kapovic, Anna Giacalone Ramat, Paolo Ramat
 
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Greater Messapia
Trailer of a docufiction
current linguistic chit chat states that messapian could be Thracian
.
The hypothesis that Thracian and Albanian form a distinct branch (often in these scenarios, along with Dacian) of Indo-European is given much consideration even today. A few of the cognates between Thracian and Albanian may actually represent borrowings from one language to another;[citation needed] in most cases this is ruled out because a word or lexical item follows the sound-changes expected in the language from its PIE sound-changes.
Among the cognates between Thracian and Albanian: the Thracian inscription mezenai on the Duvanli gold ring has been unanimously linked to Messapian menzana (=horse deity) to Albanian mëz (=pony), as well as to Romanian mânz (=colt), and it is agreed that Thracian mezenai meant 'horseman'; Thracian manteia is supposed to be cognate to Albanian mand (=mulberry).
 
The data used in the study are inaccurate. Let say Greeks have high presence of J2a which is not reflected. Also R1a among Albanians of Macedonia is over 13%. Few things I noted while quickly scanning the article. As for Illyrian ancestry of Puglia that is documented but proving it through DNA its not quite convincing. When Illyrians arrived there other people already living so the present day people are a mixture. Also Puglia has a lot of recent Albanian immigrants from middle ages to present.

Theres no official source for the levels of R1a in Albanians from Macedonia. Some figures suggest its lower than Albania within only a 3 percent range.
 
Iapygians

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According to Pierpaolo Di Carlo, the archaeology and material context of the Novilara Stele with the North Picene language points to it having trans-adriatic origin, aka groups known as "Illyrian". The relation to daunian steles (messapic speakers) and liburnian boats (unclear if liburnian was venetic-like or northern "illyric" on spectrum with messapic).
There is also genetic evidence that this author was not aware of. From 2018 Y-dna study of Italians, populations of Apulia and Po valley were discovered to have elevated J2b/Ev13. These are paleobalkan paternal lineages comparatively absent in Slavs. J2b particularly is a specifically Albanian lineage with it being almost absent in Greeks also, and most concentrated in north-west Gheg Albanians. J2b has been discovered in a 3500 year old tumuli in croatian coast, meaning it is a confirmed paleo-balkan adriatic lineage (~30% of Albanian men belong to this lineage).
What this means in layman terms is that there are more Italians in Po valley and Apulia than any other region of Italy, that share the same male ancestor as 60% of Albanians within 2000-3000 years.
While the elevation in Apulia is accounted for by the Messapic linguistic connection/affinities to Albanian, there is as of yet no such explanation for the Po Valley genetic relation. The north picene language stele is discovered at the mouth of the po valley.
The archaeological and material culture of the North Picene elevates the probability that it has a connection with Messapics or Liburnians. In conjuction with the Y-dna relations, this elevated probability is compounded upon.
LINK: https://www.academia.edu/2003399/Le...ele_di_Novilara_e_sul_loro_contesto_culturale
 
In Veneti art, we see priestesses wearing a dress similar to the Albanian Xhubleta, which Baron Franz Nopcsa believed was related to the Minoan priestess dress.

The Ancient Veneti people of Italy spoke an isolate language somwhere in between the Illyrian & Italo-Celtic IE branch.




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it being understood that the Daunian were different from the Messapi, but since we are also talking about Messapi here, I consider the recent discovery (08.01.2022) which took place in the Lower Salento to be relevant.
New light on the Messapi, research in the necropolis of Alezio (Lower Salento). An excavation campaign unearths tombs and the ceremonial square of the site in Puglia. The grave of a child; olives as an offering to propitiate the afterlife. The Messapian necropolis of Monte d'Elia, in Alezio, thanks to an initial research campaign conducted by the Archeology Laboratory of the University of Salento, offers new evidence of an ancient civilization. The findings: a ceremonial square, numerous tombs, including that of a child, an ossuary, the remains of olives, are just some of the new discoveries. Having concluded the excavation operations in recent days, we now continue with the analysis of the finds. Over the course of a few weeks of research, new fundamental data emerged for the knowledge of Messapian civilization, first of all through the topographical reconstruction of the Monte d'Elia area and the recognition of the funerary rituals practiced there in ancient times. Of extreme importance is the fact that concerns the identification of a large ceremonial square around which, within enclosures built with large boulders, the groups of tombs belonging to nuclei of families or clans were concentrated. This was the arrival point of the processions that accompanied the deceased on the last journey from the house to the place of burial. More detailed elements come from the excavation of burials that were not intercepted during the investigations of the 1980s by the Archaeological Superintendence of Puglia. In fact, a pit was identified, with a floor in limestone blocks and a frame in carparo, inside which the remains of at least 12 individuals were accumulated. In short, an ossuary linked to the functioning of the necropolis and to the practice of reusing funerary structures for various depositions. Some objects belonging to the grave goods were found, such as a lamp, a plate, a trozzella, a typical Messapian vase, two loom weights and a javelin point.
 
it being understood that the Daunian were different from the Messapi, but since we are also talking about Messapi here, I consider the recent discovery (08.01.2022) which took place in the Lower Salento to be relevant.
New light on the Messapi, research in the necropolis of Alezio (Lower Salento). An excavation campaign unearths tombs and the ceremonial square of the site in Puglia. The grave of a child; olives as an offering to propitiate the afterlife. The Messapian necropolis of Monte d'Elia, in Alezio, thanks to an initial research campaign conducted by the Archeology Laboratory of the University of Salento, offers new evidence of an ancient civilization. The findings: a ceremonial square, numerous tombs, including that of a child, an ossuary, the remains of olives, are just some of the new discoveries. Having concluded the excavation operations in recent days, we now continue with the analysis of the finds. Over the course of a few weeks of research, new fundamental data emerged for the knowledge of Messapian civilization, first of all through the topographical reconstruction of the Monte d'Elia area and the recognition of the funerary rituals practiced there in ancient times. Of extreme importance is the fact that concerns the identification of a large ceremonial square around which, within enclosures built with large boulders, the groups of tombs belonging to nuclei of families or clans were concentrated. This was the arrival point of the processions that accompanied the deceased on the last journey from the house to the place of burial. More detailed elements come from the excavation of burials that were not intercepted during the investigations of the 1980s by the Archaeological Superintendence of Puglia. In fact, a pit was identified, with a floor in limestone blocks and a frame in carparo, inside which the remains of at least 12 individuals were accumulated. In short, an ossuary linked to the functioning of the necropolis and to the practice of reusing funerary structures for various depositions. Some objects belonging to the grave goods were found, such as a lamp, a plate, a trozzella, a typical Messapian vase, two loom weights and a javelin point.

Nice share. Can't wait to read about all the findings in a few years. Grazie
 
it being understood that the Daunian were different from the Messapi, but since we are also talking about Messapi here, I consider the recent discovery (08.01.2022) which took place in the Lower Salento to be relevant.
New light on the Messapi, research in the necropolis of Alezio (Lower Salento). An excavation campaign unearths tombs and the ceremonial square of the site in Puglia. The grave of a child; olives as an offering to propitiate the afterlife. The Messapian necropolis of Monte d'Elia, in Alezio, thanks to an initial research campaign conducted by the Archeology Laboratory of the University of Salento, offers new evidence of an ancient civilization. The findings: a ceremonial square, numerous tombs, including that of a child, an ossuary, the remains of olives, are just some of the new discoveries. Having concluded the excavation operations in recent days, we now continue with the analysis of the finds. Over the course of a few weeks of research, new fundamental data emerged for the knowledge of Messapian civilization, first of all through the topographical reconstruction of the Monte d'Elia area and the recognition of the funerary rituals practiced there in ancient times. Of extreme importance is the fact that concerns the identification of a large ceremonial square around which, within enclosures built with large boulders, the groups of tombs belonging to nuclei of families or clans were concentrated. This was the arrival point of the processions that accompanied the deceased on the last journey from the house to the place of burial. More detailed elements come from the excavation of burials that were not intercepted during the investigations of the 1980s by the Archaeological Superintendence of Puglia. In fact, a pit was identified, with a floor in limestone blocks and a frame in carparo, inside which the remains of at least 12 individuals were accumulated. In short, an ossuary linked to the functioning of the necropolis and to the practice of reusing funerary structures for various depositions. Some objects belonging to the grave goods were found, such as a lamp, a plate, a trozzella, a typical Messapian vase, two loom weights and a javelin point.

can you link this investigation?

all I have is

https://www.ucl.ac.uk/ancient-literacy/project-case2.htm

which IMO, the Messapic is a language created after the Daunian Illyrians arrived in Italy and absorbed the local italic tribes under their rule
Since Daunian neighbours have always been only the Samnites until the third Roman-Samnite war , I expect these italic tribes to be an off-shoot of the Samnites

Samnites are an offshoot of Sabellic who are an off-shoot of the Umbri people

 
it being understood that the Daunian were different from the Messapi, but since we are also talking about Messapi here, I consider the recent discovery (08.01.2022) which took place in the Lower Salento to be relevant.
New light on the Messapi, research in the necropolis of Alezio (Lower Salento). An excavation campaign unearths tombs and the ceremonial square of the site in Puglia. The grave of a child; olives as an offering to propitiate the afterlife. The Messapian necropolis of Monte d'Elia, in Alezio, thanks to an initial research campaign conducted by the Archeology Laboratory of the University of Salento, offers new evidence of an ancient civilization. The findings: a ceremonial square, numerous tombs, including that of a child, an ossuary, the remains of olives, are just some of the new discoveries. Having concluded the excavation operations in recent days, we now continue with the analysis of the finds. Over the course of a few weeks of research, new fundamental data emerged for the knowledge of Messapian civilization, first of all through the topographical reconstruction of the Monte d'Elia area and the recognition of the funerary rituals practiced there in ancient times. Of extreme importance is the fact that concerns the identification of a large ceremonial square around which, within enclosures built with large boulders, the groups of tombs belonging to nuclei of families or clans were concentrated. This was the arrival point of the processions that accompanied the deceased on the last journey from the house to the place of burial. More detailed elements come from the excavation of burials that were not intercepted during the investigations of the 1980s by the Archaeological Superintendence of Puglia. In fact, a pit was identified, with a floor in limestone blocks and a frame in carparo, inside which the remains of at least 12 individuals were accumulated. In short, an ossuary linked to the functioning of the necropolis and to the practice of reusing funerary structures for various depositions. Some objects belonging to the grave goods were found, such as a lamp, a plate, a trozzella, a typical Messapian vase, two loom weights and a javelin point.

Can you elaborate? Is Messapian from the Salento peninsula derived from the Balkans but a different source? And the so called Messapian language, the inscriptions that we get Messapian vocabulary is this the language of the Dauni or that of the Salento peninsula?
 
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