The curious case of Albanian coincidences

Ownstyler · May 21, 2018

Yetos said:
I think that Aromanian is closer to Illyrian, Celtic family...

Everyone knows Aromanian is Balkan Latin while no linguist or historian has ever considered Illyrian a Romance or Celtic language.

When you said the North of Albania has some Slavic mtDNA, which haplogroups were you considering Slavic?

Johane Derite · May 21, 2018

Yetos said:
@ Derite

I still do not understand what is your target, yourpoint,

When studying cultural or linguistic phenomena, if similarities appear between two cultures that are very close to each other geographically and have interaction, then it is more likely divergent evolution of the same ancestor phenomena has occurred. The closer and more interacting, the less likely it is that two exact phenomena will have evolved independently and end up looking the same (i.e. a same instrument) although still of course a possiblity.

The further away and less interacting (South Asia) then it becomes more likely that its not of the same ancestor, but still possible.

Johane Derite · May 21, 2018

[ca. 216 BCE] 8 Philip, then, advancing with his army recovered the cities I mentioned, took Creonium and Gerus in the Dassaretis, Enchelanae, Cerax,Sation, and Boei in the region of Lake Lychnis, Bantia in the district of the Caloecini and Orgyssus in that of the Pisantini (Polybius, Histories, 5.108.1 - ca. 130 BCE )
[ca. 196 BCE] 12 To Pleuratus they gave Lychnis and Parthus, which were Illyrian but subject to Philip, 13 and they allowed Amynander all the forts he had wrested from Philip in war (Polybius, Histories, 18.47.1 - ca. 130 BCE )
[ca. 100 BCE] This country has a large lake they call Lychnites. The next island, some say, is where Diomedes ended his life, whence its name Diomedeia (Pseudo Scymnus or Pausanias of Damascus, Circuit of the Earth, 425 - ca. 100 BCE )
[ca. 358 BCE] 1 About the same time Philip, king of the Macedonians, who had been victorious over the Illyrians in a great battle and had made subject all the people who dwelt there as far as the lake called Lychnitis, now returned to Macedonia, having arranged a noteworthy peace with the Illyrians and won great acclaim among the Macedonians for the success due to his valour (Diodorus Siculus, Library 8-40, 16.8.1 - ca. 49 BCE )
[ca. 208 BCE] Whilst he was distributing the spoil and the captives-there were 4000 prisoners and 20,000 head of cattle large and small-a messenger arrived from Macedonia stating that a certain Eropus had taken Lychnidos after bribing the commandant of the garrison, that he was in possession of some villages belonging to the Dassaretii and was also making the Dardanians restless (Livy, History of Rome, 27.32 - ca. 19 BCE )
[ca. 170 BCE] After marching through the whole of that district he fixed his headquarters at Lychnidus, a town in Dassaretia (Livy, History of Rome, 43.9- ca. 14 BCE )
[ca. 169 BCE] He was, however, repulsed, and a large number of his men were wounded, and he led his force back to Lychnidus (Livy, History of Rome, 43.21 - ca. 14 BCE )
[ca. 168 BCE] If Appius Claudius had had a strong enough army at Lychnidus, the king might have had his attention distracted between two fronts; at the present moment, Appius and such force as he had with him were in the utmost danger, unless either a regular army was sent there without delay, or they were withdrawn from their present position (Livy, History of Rome, 44.20 - ca. 14 BCE )
[ca. 1 BCE] Now although the road as a whole is called the Egnatian Road, the first part of it is called the Road to Candavia (an Illyrian mountain) and passes through Lychnidus, a city, and Pylon, a place on the road which marks the boundary between the Illyrian country and Macedonia (Strabo, Geography, 7.7.4 - ca. 24 CE )
[ca. 1 BCE] Near the Road to Candavia are not only the lakes which are in the neighborhood of Lychnidus, on the shores of which are salt-fish establishments that are independent of other waters, but also a number of rivers, some emptying into the Ionian Sea and others flowing in a southerly direction (Strabo, Geography, 7.7.8 - ca. 24 CE )

A. Papadimitriou · May 21, 2018

Johane Derite said:
It's so strange how so many coincidences (and nothing more according to our neighbours on our north, east, and south borders) happen when it comes to the Albanian language and archaeology.

This is a bronze coin found in what is today "Ohrid" but according to archeological consensus used to be the Ancient Greek city of "Lychnidos."

First thing to note is the coin doesn't name the city as Lychnid-os but Lychni-dion

I was interested to see the etymology of "Lychnidos" and was surprised to see this explanation from the wikipedia link:
"In antiquity the city was known under the ancient Greek: Λυχνίς (Lychnis) and Latin: Lychnidus,[6] probably meaning "city of light", from Greek λυχνίς (lychnis, gen. lychnidos), "a precious stone that emits light",[7] from λύχνος (lychnos), "lamp, portable light".[8] By 879 AD, the town was no longer called Lychnidos but was referred to by the assimilated native people as Ohrid, possibly from the Slavic words vo hrid, meaning "on the hill", as the ancient town of Lychnidos was at the top of the hill.[9][10] In Macedonian and the other South Slavic languages, the name of the city is Ohrid (Охрид). In Albanian, the city is known as Ohër or Ohri and in modern Greek Ochrida (Οχρίδα, Ωχρίδα) and Achrida (Αχρίδα)."
LINK: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohrid?oldformat=true

Well, the reason I was surprised is because the word "Liqen" (q in albanian is pronounced like "ch" in "cheese") means Lake.
Liqen-i means "The Lake." It should be obvious it comes from the same PIE root as English Lake also.

This is Lake Ohrid from space:
So I guess my question is this:
Archeological, ethnographic, linguistic, and now Y-Dna and Autosomal DNA all corroborates that Albanians have been neighbours with Greeks for a very long time.
So why, in contrast to the Greek language, which is the #1 most studied Language on earth is Albanian among the least?
Even if Albanians had never contributed even ONE historically relevant person in all their existence, the language should be of interest by mere virtue of being right next
to the most studied one. And there are plenty of more recent historical figures in from the small Albanian population reaching from artists (Gjon Mili), a pope (Giovanni Francesco Albani), to statesmen (Francesco Crispi) and so on
to prove to even the most racist haters that at least in more recent history there have undoubtedly been important Albanian individuals.

In Ancient and Classical studies it is not even the slightest bit controversial to work on etymoligies and theories of origins of cultural phenomena by surmising foreign influence. It is very common that
for something unexplained a scholar may refer to Sumerian, Phonecian, or other very far away Semitic cultures based on trade routes and such.

Modern Greek isn't studied very much. Ancient Greek is and basically two dialects of it mostly, Homeric Greek and Attic Greek and the reasons are obvious.
And that has its negatives because those who do study Modern Greek almost always compare it with those ancient dialects, which is something that doesn't happen with other languages that much, even those that descent from Latin.

Either way, ΛΥΧNΔΙΩΝ means 'of Lychidnians'. That is a fact and has parallels all over Greece. The coins don't have name of cities on them but names of populations in genitive (or names of rulers in genitive, that is true about Macedonia for example)

(Sorry I edited my post because I made a mistake)

Johane Derite · May 21, 2018

A. Papadimitriou said:
Modern Greek isn't studied very much. Ancient Greek is and basically two dialects of it mostly, Homeric Greek and Attic Greek and the reasons are obvious.
And that has its negatives because those who do study Modern Greek almost always compare it with those ancient dialects, which is something that doesn't happen with other languages that much, even those that descent from Latin.

Either way, ΛΥΧΙΔΝΙΩΝ means 'of Lychidnians'. That is a fact and has parallels all over Greece. The coins don't have name of cities on them but names of populations in genitive (or names of rulers in genitive, that is true about Macedonia at least).

If you want to support that the word ΛΥΧΙΔΝΙΟΙ would have meant something like 'lake people', I don't have the problem with that, really. I'm open.
We can consider it a compound word. The first part *lyk^h(?) = lake, the second *dn (?) = people (?) (compare Makedones, which according to some could have meant 'tall people' or more likely 'people from the highlands', 'highlanders' which are etymologies that have been proposed but aren't widely accepted).

I would also obviously prefer to study ancient proto albanian dialects but no texts I know of exist that far back. Maybe they are in some grave somehwere not yet discovered, but for now all we have to work with is contemporary albanian and middle ages texts.

Concerning the -dion suffix what you and latgal said, that makes a lot of sense and I concede it happily. I admit that
this can happen on my part because of my ignorance of ancient greek dialects and I was thinking of the coin being attributed to the city.

I emphasise that Liqen - Lychni part is what i was more captured by than the lacking contemporary greek -os suffix which was a misjudgement from my side.

The Lake people/Highlander people makes sense to me also.

In albanian the word for "big/grand" is "Madhe" (dh is pronounced like "th" in "The"). This is cognate with "Magna"

LABERIA · May 21, 2018

Yetos said:
@ Derite

I still do not understand what is your target, yourpoint,

If you don`t understand, then why do you make such conclusions?

Yetos said:
I THINK THIS THREAD IS A COMMEDY
LETS NOT DROP TO SO RIDICULOUS LEVEL

If you don`t understand, first thing to do is reading the title of the thread:
The curious case of Albanian coincidences
If you again don`t understand then ask for an explanation from the OP.

My personal view was and is clear,
Plz lets not get into results, by using such tools,

Excuse me, but was you who said i don`t understand.

my views are

Yeah, tell us.

1 Balkanic pop and languages are not poor, neither the same % as were 2500 years before.
yet a % comes from older populations,

But this is not a conclusion, this is common knowledge, even kids know this.

2 Neither Slavic, Neither Albanian, Neither modern Greek, Neither Romanian/Aromanian were Spoken before 2500 years,

1)Slavs were not in Balcans 2500 years ago.
2) How do you know about Albanian language? We have not invented a new language like for example you with Katharevousa.
3)Of course not, modern Greek was not spoken in Balcans 2.500 years ago.
4) Of course, neither Romanian/Aromanian were spoken 2.500 years ago.
Again you are telling things that even kids know.

3 about Albanian, I do not believe that is Illyrian,

No problem, i understand your complex. :grin:

I think that Aromanian is closer to Illyrian, Celtic family

Can you quote a scholar?

but ancestors of Albanian language were in Balkans 2500 years before.
same with population, I do not think majority is foreign, but that does mean no mix had happened,

Great!!!! So, no more Maniakis theory? This is what i consider a Great Leap Forward.

especially in North where Slavic mtDNA has %,
the same I say about my country, if you Notice,

you don't have a clue about genetics.

I am clear I think,

about Golden down,
Let me remind you, that αν expelled sub-leader, a 'buranda' of the party, was Albanian
and a % are Albanians, most are are after 1990's newcomers

Yetos, i understand your complex of inferiority, but i can`t help you. Johane is talking about ancient instruments and homeric legends(this is how many scholars call these legends, homeric) that are preserved among Albanians.
I invite you to stop t-rolling. Take the oudi of your grandfather and start to sing one of those aman-aman like this:

Σαν βγαίνει ο Χότζας στο τζαμί Μπιρ Αλλάχ Πάνος Κατσιμίχας
As Hoxha comes to the mosque Bir Allah
Panos Katsimihas

Σαν βγαίνει ο Χότζας στο τζαμί,
αργά σαν σουρουπώνει,
κι όταν ακούω Μπιρ Αλλάχ,
το στήθος μου ματώνει...

As Hoxha comes to the mosque,
slowly as getting dark,
and when I hear Bir Allah,
my chest blew...

Η Τουρκορωμιοσύνη
ποτέ δεν πεθαίνει!

The Tourkoromiosyni
never dies!

A. Papadimitriou · May 21, 2018

Johane Derite said:
I would also obviously prefer to study ancient proto albanian dialects but no texts I know of exist that far back. Maybe they are in some grave somehwere not yet discovered, but for now all we have to work with is contemporary albanian and middle ages texts.

Concerning the -dion suffix what you and latgal said, that makes a lot of sense and I concede it happily. I admit that
this can happen on my part because of my ignorance of ancient greek dialects and I was thinking of the coin being attributed to the city.

I emphasise that Liqen - Lychni part is what i was more captured by than the lacking contemporary greek -os suffix which was a misjudgement from my side.

The Lake people/Highlander people makes sense to me also.

In albanian the word for "big/grand" is "Madhe" (dh is pronounced like "th" in "The"). This is cognate with "Magna"

I made a mistake. I thought there was an 'N' after 'D' too, so a part of what I said isn't correct.
The genitive ending is -o:n but sometimes -a:n in NW Greek. (Ω is considered to have been more open and more long than Ο)

Ok, if we assume that the toponym has something to do with the meaning lake. And if we assume that the letters had the same values reconstructed ancient Greek has we see a root:
*luk^hn / *lyk^hn (?)

Sorry for the mistake. I will see if I have anything to add.

Johane Derite · May 21, 2018

Johane Derite said:
In albanian the word for "big/grand" is "Madhe" (dh is pronounced like "th" in "The"). This is cognate with "Magna"

An interesting coincidence, while I'm at it:

E Madhe means "big/grand/great"

For example:

Sounds pretty similar to "Emathia" (E Madhja is also used in Albanian)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emathia

[h=2]Etymology[edit][/h]According to Solinus and Justin, Emathia was named after the Samothracian king Emathion and not after the local Emathus. The etymology of the name has been related to Homeric Greek amathos^[2] and êmathoessa^[3] (< PIE *samadh) 'sandy land', i. e. the coastal, swampy land around Axius river, in contrast to mountainous Macedonia, probably also intended as 'meadow land' (cf. PIE *mē-2, *m-e-t- 'to mow, to reap').^[4]

Johane Derite · May 21, 2018

A. Papadimitriou said:
I made a mistake. I thought there was an 'N' after 'D' too, so a part of what I said isn't correct.
The genitive ending is -o:n but sometimes -a:n in NW Greek. (Ω is considered to have been more open and more long than Ο)

Ok, if we assume that the toponym has something to do with the meaning lake. And if we assume that the letters had the same values reconstructed ancient Greek has we see a root:
*luk^hn / *lyk^hn (?)

Sorry for the mistake. I will see if I have anything to add.

No worries, i appreciate the help *i dont have any more up votes to give sorry*

LABERIA · May 21, 2018

Johane Derite said:
An interesting coincidence, while I'm at it:

E Madhe means "big/grand/great"

For example:

Sounds pretty similar to "Emathia" (E Madhja is also used in Albanian)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emathia

Etymology[edit]

According to Solinus and Justin, Emathia was named after the Samothracian king Emathion and not after the local Emathus. The etymology of the name has been related to Homeric Greek amathos^[2] and êmathoessa^[3] (< PIE *samadh) 'sandy land', i. e. the coastal, swampy land around Axius river, in contrast to mountainous Macedonia, probably also intended as 'meadow land' (cf. PIE *mē-2, *m-e-t- 'to mow, to reap').^[4]

But before the standartization of the Albanian language, in different dialects used to say math not madh and i math or e mathe not i madh or e madhe, my grandfather/mother for example.

Johane Derite · May 21, 2018

LABERIA said:
But before the standartization of the Albanian language, in different dialects used to say math not madh and i math or e mathe not i madh or e madhe, my grandfather/mother for example.

Yes there was dialectal variation ranging from albanian soft "th" (like "th" in "tooth) to the now standardised form of hard
"dh" (pronounced like "th" in "the")

A. Papadimitriou · May 21, 2018

Johane Derite said:
An interesting coincidence, while I'm at it:

E Madhe means "big/grand/great"

[...]

Sounds pretty similar to "Emathia" (E Madhja is also used in Albanian)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emathia

Etymology[edit]

According to Solinus and Justin, Emathia was named after the Samothracian king Emathion and not after the local Emathus. The etymology of the name has been related to Homeric Greek amathos^[2] and êmathoessa^[3] (< PIE *samadh) 'sandy land', i. e. the coastal, swampy land around Axius river, in contrast to mountainous Macedonia, probably also intended as 'meadow land' (cf. PIE *mē-2, *m-e-t- 'to mow, to reap').^[4]

There is a problem with that, I think. Why 'e' was included in the toponym? Why not Mathia, Madhia? (Can you explain how, e / i etc are used today?)

On the other hand, there are problems with the 'sandy land' etymology too, because what would have been the meaning of the personal name Emathion? (Something like 'great' seems better)

By the way in Cyprus there were people who called themselves 'Amathusioi', at least in Greek.
And Amathusia was an epithet of Aphrodite. ('Great' seems theoretically possible at least, something like 'the goddess of the sandy land' theoretically possible too or maybe just 'from Amathus', 'Amathusian')

The people from Amathus, Cyprus didn't want to revolt against Achaemenids Persians btw. The traditional explanation is that it was because they had ties with the Phoenicians who were allied with the Persians, but I would consider the possibility they had ties with the Persians themselves.

Kelmendasi · May 21, 2018

Yetos said:
@ Derite

I still do not understand what is your target, yourpoint,

My personal view was and is clear,
Plz lets not get into results, by using such tools,

my views are

1 Balkanic pop and languages are not poor, neither the same % as were 2500 years before.
yet a % comes from older populations,

2 Neither Slavic, Neither Albanian, Neither modern Greek, Neither Romanian/Aromanian were Spoken before 2500 years,

3 about Albanian, I do not believe that is Illyrian,
I think that Aromanian is closer to Illyrian, Celtic family
but ancestors of Albanian language were in Balkans 2500 years before.
same with population, I do not think majority is foreign, but that does mean no mix had happened,
especially in North where Slavic mtDNA has %,
the same I say about my country, if you Notice,

I am clear I think,

about Golden down,
Let me remind you, that αν expelled sub-leader, a 'buranda' of the party, was Albanian
and a % are Albanians, most are are after 1990's newcomers

What are you on about? Aromanian is a Latin language so how would it have more to do with Illyrian lol? Albanian has far more words that are similar to what we know of Illyrian than Aromanian. Albanian is the closest thing that you could get to Illyrian today and going by the genetic evidence the Illyrian theory seems to hold the most water going by ancient DNA samples. Can you show evidence of how the north has a god percentage of Slavic mtDNA?

A. Papadimitriou · May 21, 2018

Concerning, the reconstructed PIE root *samadh- 'sandy land'

In Greek dialects it would have been *hamat^h- / *amat^h- (which would evolve to *amaθ- in modern Greek)
In Northern IE dialects it would have been *samad

(In PIE proper it would have been *samat really, if Kortlandt and others from Leiden school are correct)

I tried to find out if a toponym like Samadia exists anywhere and I found one, it was a former name of Zandabad
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zandabad

but it can be a coincidence because a similar toponym exists even in Tibet.

Johane Derite · May 21, 2018

A. Papadimitriou said:
There is a problem with that, I think. Why 'e' was included in the toponym? Why not Mathia, Madhia? (Can you explain how, e / i etc are used today?)

On the other hand, there are problems with the 'sandy land' etymology too, because what would have been the meaning of the personal name Emathion? (Something like 'great' seems better)

By the way in Cyprus there were people who called themselves 'Amathusioi', at least in Greek.
And Amathusia was an epithet of Aphrodite. ('Great' seems theoretically possible at least, something like 'the goddess of the sandy land' theoretically possible too or maybe just 'from Amathus', 'Amathusian')

The people from Amathus, Cyprus didn't want to revolt against Achaemenids Persians btw. The traditional explanation is that it was because they had ties with the Phoenicians who were allied with the Persians, but I would consider the possibility they had ties with the Persians themselves.

Sorry for the delay, im currently at work:

The adjectives in Albanian are usually accompanied by the connective article, which is determined by the gender and the number of the noun. The connective articles are: i, e, të. The connective article i is used before the adjective with a singular masculine noun in indefinite or definite form, for example:
një shok i mirë - shoku i mirë (a good friend - the good friend )

i is masculine (i madh)
e is feminine (e madhe)

Johane Derite · May 21, 2018

A. Papadimitriou said:
There is a problem with that, I think. Why 'e' was included in the toponym? Why not Mathia, Madhia? (Can you explain how, e / i etc are used today?)

And for this part:

Albanian has a canonical word order of SVO (subject–verb–object) like English and many other Indo-European languages.^[70] Albanian nouns are inflected by gender (masculine, feminine and neuter) and number (singular and plural). There are five declensions with six cases (nominative, accusative, genitive, dative, ablative, and vocative), although the vocative only occurs with a limited number of words, and the forms of the genitive and dative are identical (a genitive is produced when the prepositions i/e/të/së are used with the dative). Some dialects also retain a locative case, which is not present in standard Albanian. The cases apply to both definite and indefinite nouns, and there are numerous cases of syncretism.
The following shows the declension of mal (mountain), a masculine noun which takes "i" in the definite singular:

	Indefinite singular	Indefinite plural	Definite singular	Definite plural
Nominative	një mal (a mountain)	male (mountains)	Mali (the mountain)	malet (the mountains)
Accusative	një mal	male	malin	malet
Genitive	i/e/të/së një Mali	i/e/të/së maleve	i/e/të/së malit	i/e/të/së maleve
Dative	një Mali	maleve	malit	maleve
Ablative	(prej) një Mali	(prej) malesh	(prej) malit	(prej) maleve

The following shows the declension of the masculine noun zog (bird), a masculine noun which takes "u" in the definite singular:

	Indefinite singular	Indefinite plural	Definite singular	Definite plural
Nominative	një zog (a bird)	zogj (birds)	zogu (the bird)	zogjtë (the birds)
Accusative	një zog	zogj	zogun	zogjtë
Genitive	i/e/të/së një zogu	i/e/të/së zogjve	i/e/të/së zogut	i/e/të/së zogjve
Dative	një zogu	zogjve	zogut	zogjve
Ablative	(prej) një zogu	(prej) zogjsh	(prej) zogut	(prej) zogjve

The following table shows the declension of the feminine noun vajzë (girl):

	Indefinite singular	Indefinite plural	Definite singular	Definite plural
Nominative	një vajzë (a girl)	vajza (girls)	vajza (the girl)	vajzat (the girls)
Accusative	një vajzë	vajza	vajzën	vajzat
Genitive	i/e/të/së një vajze	i/e/të/së vajzave	i/e/të/së vajzës	i/e/të/së vajzave
Dative	një vajze	vajzave	vajzës	vajzave
Ablative	(prej) një vajze	(prej) vajzash	(prej) vajzës	(prej) vajzave

The definite article can be in the form of noun suffixes, which vary with gender and case.

For example, in singular nominative, masculine nouns add -i, or those ending in -g/-k/-h take -u (to avoid palatalization):
- mal (mountain) / mali(the mountain);
- libër (book) / libri (the book);
- zog (bird) / zogu (the bird).

Feminine nouns take the suffix -(i/j)a:
- veturë (car) / vetura (the car);
- shtëpi (house) / shtëpia (the house);
- lule (flower) / lulja (the flower).

https://sq.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leka_i_Madh

A. Papadimitriou · May 21, 2018

It would be nice if we had ancient texts from all the branches and even various dialects.

Either way, PIE or LPIE is usually reconstructed as a SOV language (but with a more or less free word order most likely), with no articles.

The 'definite article' in m.Greek is declinable [In nominative: o (m.), i (f.), to (n.), in genitive tu (m./n.), tis (f.), in accusative ton (m.),tin (f.),to (n.)]
Those descend from a PIE demonstrative, which is reconstructed as *so, seh2, tod

In some Northern Greek dialects, maybe as recently as 100 years they used 'i' instead of 'o', though.
If the standard language had been based on those idioms we would say something like

~i a'lexanðrus i 'meɣas/me'ɣalus or
i 'meɣas/me'ɣalus a'lexanðrus

(That would have been considered a coincidence by linguists, but maybe it isn't, although the role those articles have isn't the same)

Johane Derite · May 21, 2018

A. Papadimitriou said:
It would be nice if we had ancient texts from all the branches and even various dialects.

Either way, PIE or LPIE is usually reconstructed as a SOV language (but with a more or less free word order most likely), with no articles.

The 'definite article' in m.Greek is declinable [In nominative: o (m.), i (f.), to (n.), in genitive tu (m./n.), tis (f.), in accusative ton (m.),tin (f.),to (n.)]
Those descend from a PIE demonstrative, which is reconstructed as *so, seh2, tod

In some Northern Greek dialects, maybe as recently as 100 years they used 'i' instead of 'o', though.
If the standard language had been based on those idioms we would say something like

~i a'lexanðrus i 'meɣas / i 'meɣas a'lexanðrus

(That would have been considered a coincidence by linguists, but maybe it isn't, although the role those articles have isn't the same)

Really interesting Papadimitriou, appreciate this feedback.

On a tangent:

Is it possible that the greek genitive plural "ÔN" you mentioned here:

"The genitive ending is -o:n but sometimes -a:n in NW Greek. (Ω is considered to have been more open and more long than Ο)"

Is it possible that its cognate with the albanian word "jonë." The meaning is practically the same, above in the Troy speculations
i translated it as "ours" but its more precise defintion would be possessive "belonging to us"

Albanian[edit]

Alternative forms[edit]

onë

Etymology[edit]

Femminine variant of ynë.

Pronoun[edit]

jonë

(attributive) Belonging to us.

Jeta jonë është e bukur
Our life is beautiful.

LINK: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/jon%C3%AB

Here is an example of how it sounds (audible at 0:38 seconds "martesa jonë = our marriage)

The albanian word for "I" is "unë"

Ownstyler · May 21, 2018

Johane if you have evidence of transmission of the Epos from Albanian into Slavic, could you point me to it? I am very interested in learning more about that. Thank you!

A. Papadimitriou · May 21, 2018

Johane Derite said:
Really interesting Papadimitriou, appreciate this feedback.
On a tangent:
Is it possible that the greek genitive plural "ÔN" you mentioned here:
"The genitive ending is -o:n but sometimes -a:n in NW Greek. (Ω is considered to have been more open and more long than Ο)"
Is it possible that its cognate with the albanian word "jonë." The meaning is practically the same, above in the Troy speculations
i translated it as "ours" but its more precise defintion would be possessive "belonging to us"

I believe all linguists would say there isn't a possibility.
The genitive plural ending is ōn in Greek, ān most often in NW Greek, but for PIE it is reconstructed as *-ōm, *-oHom etc (there are different views concerning the details at least, see the Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-European_nominals

[Personally I have my own opinions about some reconstructions but since I've chosen to not do post-graduate studies in linguistics I'll leave them aside]

Now, if pre-proto-Indoeuropean was more analytic, there are many possibilities (case endings could have descended from independent words)
but in this case in particular the Albanian word should descend from the PIE personal pronoun in some way. I will check it.

The curious case of Albanian coincidences

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