Early European Lineages
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bicicleur 2
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My guess : R arrived in Ukraine 15000 years ago (coming from Mal'ta?) :
http://archaeology.about.com/od/ancienthouses/g/mammoth_huts.htm
They were mammoth hunters, in summer they went hunting more north.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mezine
That is how ANE and WHG first met.
Twilight
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ElHorsto:Europeans are approx. 40% WHG and 20% ANE.
Okay with my YDna calcilations alone for my ancestry; 13/32 British, 5/32 Irish, 3/32 Welsh,1/8 Prussian, 1/8 MacDonald Tribe,1/32 Ashkenazi Jew, 1/16 French, I got in total 72% ANE 16%WHG and 10% EEF
If this is the case than I supose that mtDna is involved in ancestry also :/
Okay with my YDna calcilations alone for my ancestry; 13/32 British, 5/32 Irish, 3/32 Welsh,1/8 Prussian, 1/8 MacDonald Tribe,1/32 Ashkenazi Jew, 1/16 French, I got in total 72% ANE 16%WHG and 10% EEF
If this is the case than I supose that mtDna is involved in ancestry also :/
I am not surprised by that. As far as R1b is concerned, I have explained many times before (eg here) that the autosomal genes of R1b men was continuously diluted on their way from the Middle East to West Europe via the Pontic Steppe, the Balkans, Central Europe, and eventually Western & Northern Europe. The longer R1b men stayed in a region, the more they would have had opportunities to intermarry with indigenous women of that region. Here are the three great zones where R1b intermingled with local populations:
1) Pontic Steppe (arriving sometime between 6000 and 3700 BCE and staying until at least 2500 BCE) : the original R1b-M269 from eastern Anatolia or Mesopotamia (probably carrying mtDNA J, K, T1, T2, U4, and X2) blended extensively with steppe women (daughters of R1a men, mostly represented by mtDNA I, U2, U4, U5, V, W and X2). Roughly 1500 to 3000 years of intermingling, bring Northeast European genes into the R1b autosomal gene pool.
2) Balkans, Danube basin & Central Europe (from c. 4000 to 2000 BCE) : 2000 years of mixing with the population of 'Old Europe', themselves a blend of Neolithic farmers (75%) and Mesolithic hunter-gatherers (25%). They would have acquired many of the most common maternal lineages in Europe today, including a wide range of H subclades, but also new subclades of J, K, T and U5.
3) Western Europe & Scandinavia (from 2300 BCE) : a relatively fast invasion by R1b, especially in the Benelux, France and the British Isles, where R1b spread within only two or three centuries from the Unetice culture in Germany. The penetration was much slower in Scandinavia (starting from 1800 BCE, but slow assimilation of indigenous population throughout the Bronze Age until 500 BCE), Iberia (possibly from 1800 BCE, but whole peninsula not covered until 1200 BCE), and especially Italy (starting from 1300 BCE, but Sardinia not really settled by R1b until the Roman Republic). Such discrepancies in the diffusion pace may explain why R1b is so much higher in Northwest Europe then in places like southern Italy, and why the Gedrosian admixture is equally higher in Northwest Europe. An earlier and faster conquest of R1b, with a more thorough population replacement, explains why more original R1b autosomal DNA survive (less dilution).
That is the most interesting info so far. Most people (including me) would have expected Mesolithic Swedes to belong to haplogroups I1 or I2a2a (M223), not to I2a1b. That is relatively surprising considering that I2a1b is rather rare in Scandinavia today (1% of total), rarer even than Neolithic lineages like G2a or E-V13. Even J2 is more common. Norway doesn't seem to have any I2a1 at all, out of nearly 3000 samples tested.
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This reinforces my hypothesis that blond and red hair were both brought by the Indo-Europeans (R1a and R1b respectively), but that blue eyes were already present among Mesolithic Europeans.
I have mentioned before that likely minor presence of Y-haplogroup A1a among Palaeolithic/Mesolithic West/North Europeans, but also the relatively important presence of E-M81 since the Mesolithic at least in Iberia, and possibly also in and around France. Both would have contributed to slightly darker skin among Mesolithic Western Europeans.
ElHorsto
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Yep. And on the other hand there was the other study which identified that some early indo-europeans in the steppe were instead blond with brown eyes (although many were also blue eyed of course).
Maybe. I also believe that during LGM the (west-)european hunter-gatherers or "Cro-Magnons" dwelled in their south european refuges, where the sun was shining no less than today, or even stronger due to the reflection from white snow. There possibly was an evolutionary pressure towards dark skin in europe during LGM. Maybe they got the darker skin from non-euro admixture, but this admixture was very slight, yet representing the crucial seed for evolutionary distribution.
I think the ice sheets in the west advanced more towards the south than in north asia.
Tabaccus Maximus
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I am now eating my hat.
It does appear after all that Haplogroup I pre-dates the Neolithic and comfortably so. Very exciting.
I had felt the diversity and geographic limitation of I* was not a good indicator of its spread given the history of migrations from the Balkans and the limited population in the North.
However, I was wrong. Really, haplogroup I* was the test case for me in determining whether diversity and age calculations can really tell us anything reliably useful. Apparently, it does and now I fell more comfortable with the methodology with regards to other haplogroups.
One thing though, the ANE is taken from Mal'ta and Afontova, so it is incorrect to say that modern Euros are basically a tripart mix of the same reoccurring stuff.
Euros are part ANE, which is foreign to Europe and of course most easily explained by the introgression of R1 lineages which have yet to be found, pre-Chalcolithic.
As a matter of fact, simply clustering more similar and less similar components still does not properly explain the modern mitochondrial distribution of Europe which does not appear to have been at all common at that time.
On that point, whenever R1* began spreading into Europe, it was not pure ANE. It was probably an autosomal mix fused with other peoples, most likely Near Easterners.
It does appear after all that Haplogroup I pre-dates the Neolithic and comfortably so. Very exciting.
I had felt the diversity and geographic limitation of I* was not a good indicator of its spread given the history of migrations from the Balkans and the limited population in the North.
However, I was wrong. Really, haplogroup I* was the test case for me in determining whether diversity and age calculations can really tell us anything reliably useful. Apparently, it does and now I fell more comfortable with the methodology with regards to other haplogroups.
One thing though, the ANE is taken from Mal'ta and Afontova, so it is incorrect to say that modern Euros are basically a tripart mix of the same reoccurring stuff.
Euros are part ANE, which is foreign to Europe and of course most easily explained by the introgression of R1 lineages which have yet to be found, pre-Chalcolithic.
As a matter of fact, simply clustering more similar and less similar components still does not properly explain the modern mitochondrial distribution of Europe which does not appear to have been at all common at that time.
On that point, whenever R1* began spreading into Europe, it was not pure ANE. It was probably an autosomal mix fused with other peoples, most likely Near Easterners.
ElHorsto
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I agree with that. Many Indo-europeans were themselves largely of paleolithic stock, because north-east europeans are mostly paleolithic europeans.
In the admixture breakdown from davidski I have spotted some very interesting features with regards to Indo-European theory. It is more interesting than the PCA plot. The WHG and ANE are especially interesting:
- WHG has maximum in Estonian, Lithuanian, Icelandic, Belorussian, Scottish/Norwegian (decending order). That more-or-less confirms the north-eastern peak of hunter gatherers, but this time slightly more shifted to the west by Scottish and Icelandic.
- The Sardinians have the lowest ANE admixture, which makes again a lot of sense assuming ANE came to south-west-europe by R1b Indo-Europeans and that the native Sardinian language is non-IE.
- Now let't compare these countries to each-other by WHG/ANE ratio: ANE is higher in the Scottish than in Belorussian. Surprising? Maybe not quite. Assuming that ANE is partially re-introduced by the Indo-Europeans, it means that Belorussians have more west-european paleolithic heritage than the Scots, whereas the Scots have more Indo-European heritage (ANE). WHG is slightly lower in Scots than in Belorussians, but still both peoples have much more WHG than ANE, which again shows the actual northern distribution of the "western" WHG component.
- A look at the Sicilians, Maltese, Albanians, Greeks, Spanish, Basque (pais vasco only!) reveals that they have more ANE (Indo-European/eastern paleolithic) than WHG, while being overwhelmingly southern EEF of course. These countries have all in common that they are genetically and geographically south-european and that they all speak indo-european (except basques) and have R1b. So again ANE could be linked to Indo-Europeans. And again it is confirmed that WHG (e.g. La Brana in earlier work) has been largely eradicated in south-west europe.
- The lower WHG and higher ANE in pais vasco would again reinforce the theory that their ANE came from steppic R1b people, despite Basque is a non-IE language. That being said, Indo-Europeans were by no means ANE only, they had significant West Asian admixture certainly (Gedrosian-R1b, Caucasus-R1a, others)
It looks like WHG (West-European Hunter Gatherer) is today the truely north-european one. Most likely the Saami would have the most of it, but I couldn't find the data for the Saami in this paper.
The North-East european peak shown in K12b and Globe 13 and others probably corresponds mostly to both, WHG and ANE.
Light pigmentation is an evolutionary advantage for northern climates, but not in environment where snow and ice predominate most of the year, because the reflection of the sun on the snow can cause severe sunburn and damage the eyes. That is why modern Inuits and other Arctic populations typically have brown eyes and more tanned skin than northern Europeans. LGM conditions would have been closer to those found within the Arctic Circle today.
As for fair hair, it is only advantageous from a certain latitude, perhaps over 45° North, regardless of temperature. The sunshine is weaker and less direct at high latitudes, even in a hot summer day. That is surely why evolutionary pressures got ride of most fair hair among Southern Europeans (except in particularly overcast regions like northwestern Spain, where mountains block clouds from the Atlantic all year round).
Wilhelm
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But you have not paid attention to what the study says, that Sicilians, Maltese and Ashkenazy results should not be taken in account, because they have recent near-east ancestry beyond what the neolithic farmers have, so their results are skewed.
ElHorsto
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You are right, but including Sicilians and Maltese will not invalidate my argument. They are just useless for my argument. So we can just skip them and the argument still holds for the rest.
ElHorsto
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Sorry, I forgot to stress the most important argument here: the listed countries are also the only ones which have ANE > WHG.
Tabaccus Maximus
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I'm still having a problem with WHG. (Western Hunter Gatherer)
I realize this is their terminology, but what does it correlate to by other naming conventions? Is this the same as the NWE (Northwest Eurasian) component?
North European Component? Northeastern European Component?
Do they correlate at all?
I realize this is their terminology, but what does it correlate to by other naming conventions? Is this the same as the NWE (Northwest Eurasian) component?
North European Component? Northeastern European Component?
Do they correlate at all?
epoch
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Yet Norway has 43% autosomal DNA connected to mesolithic hunters. This strange discrepancy between autosomal connection and Y-DNA disconnection is also visible with mtDNA, I think. Norway has far less U5, U4 or U then 45%.
http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2013/...howComment=1387851513157#c1616632050721459316
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This actually shows that old clads can be replaced with new "improved" (more adapted) ones rather quickly and without big difficulties. It can explain quick dominance of some R1bs and I2a-Dinaric. Pretty much in agreement what you were always suspecting.
Idun
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Would like to see this breakdown for Finns also.
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On page 6 of the Preview PDF, the authors state that Loschbour clusters with 7000 year old hunter-gatherers from Spain, allowing the authors to propose a "West European Hunter-Gatherer (WHG) meta-population. The footnote referenced makes it clear that the authors were referring to the La Brana finds. So, WHG = whoever those two mesolithic people at La Brana were.
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