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^^the thing is it makes no sense to say that this alleles were totally absent from WHG. tell me how many WHG genomes were analysed until now? it will never be enough to say it for certain that they did not also have those alleles. especially when their neighbours the SHG and EHG were fixated.
no its not only a farmer feature. in fact farmers were only fixated in one of those alleles while scandinavian hunter gatherers and probably also eastern hunter gatherers were fixated in both. i also wouldn't be so sure that WHG did not already have those alleles too.
The new data confirms the Z56 branch as overwhelmingly Italic and the Z36 branch are emanating chiefly from Switzerland and southern Baden-Württemberg, making it look distinctly linked to the La Tène culture. Unfortunately L2 and Z193 aren't so clear cut. In my opinion, L2 expanded across western Europe much earlier, perhaps with the first Proto-Celtic migrations between 2300 and 1800 BCE, alongside L21 and DF27. We see an explosion of new DF27 and L2 lineages taking place right under the top of the tree, so closer to 2300 BCE (± 300 years). Even the large Z49, Z34 and L20 subclades are only a couple of centuries younger (2100 BCE according to Yfull), and indeed they are distributed all over western Europe, and sometimes also Poland. This all suggests a major Unetice dispersal of L2 (+ DF27 and L21) subclades. This was the big Bronze Age PIE wave that marked the collapse of Megalithic cultures in central and western Europe.
During that time, Z36 remained around Switzerland and Z56 probably more around Austria and Bavaria, until the Urnfield and Hallstatt expansions. Some L2 subclades would also have remained around the Alps and some would even have participated to the Italic invasion of the Italian peninsula (e.g. ZZ48).
There is little data about Z193, which makes it difficult to spot distribution patterns, but some subclades are probably Italic too (e.g. PF6693).
I am italian from tuscany I am R-U152 R-Z43 from many generation in tuscany, I have red hair
Sorry to deceive you but Y-haplogroup have almost nothing to do with red hair.
In proportion there is more Blond/red hair E1b1b Scandinavian then Red hair or Blond R1b italian. Better look at your nuclear DNA.
Btw did you do the BIG Y ?
I am italian from tuscany I am R-U152 R-Z43 from many generation in tuscany, I have red hair
But roman people origin indo european origin also italics tribes are similar to celts, etruscan people the origin from anatolian region turkey
my dna 70 european 30 turkey armenian
no clue about the op, but from what i know light skin (homozygous derived at rs1426654/rs16891982) is a neolithic anatolian_farmer feature and so far in aDNA none of the celts actually had red-hair surprising since all of them are briton-celts (driffield-terrace/rathlin) in fact most were dark-haired(+some brown/blonde) and prevailing dark-eyed; i reckon that more extensive data will show whether ginger and celts go hand in hand or just false translations;
concerning phenotypic SNP's of pigmentation we have too few "Celts" to judge based upon only ancient DNA -
you confuse pan-europoid skin depigmentation based on 2 principal loci mutations with typical and more limited super-depigmentation based on other less known nd less common loci
yes, that is what i meant with 'extensive data', though that so much literature stress the "fact" that romans saw red-haired people everywhere they looked i did expect the six british celts to be red-haired or at least the majority after all they span two-three hundred years of roman period, none of the celts being red-haired was very surprising; no confusion, that is what i meant that 'pan-europoid skin depigmentation' was already attested in/by anatolian derived farmers so chronologically earlier than bronze age people;
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