Climate change Global warming, where are we heading to ?

Farstar said:
The data Lomborg gives is based on the IPCC results and on Nordhaus work (Nobel Prize). No distorted data, being shouted by ideologues completely dominated by hatred and ideology, can be compared to that.

Let us stick to good quality data: IPCC, Nordhaus. The rest is (worse than) noise.
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So you are resorting to an argumentum ab auctoritate, a type of logical fallacy. There is no Nobel Prize in climatology. William Nordhaus is an economist, and if you knew him at all, you'd know that he was rewarded by a Nobel Prize for ringing the alarm bells about the potentially catastrophic impacts of climate change. Bjorn Lomborg just picks and chooses data to try to contradict Nordhaus, which he does very poorly, as I explained above.
 
bigsnake49 said:
Not my opinion, my observations over the last 50 years. While religion might be important as part of the national identity to be a Greek, actively believing and practicing religion has gone way way down. Going to church once a year for Easter does not make one religious. If you go to a church on any given Sunday, you will see very few people there and then 95% old people. . Religiosity increases among rural areas, less educated and older folks. Even in the US, where the Greek churches have more active participation than in Greece, the interest is more cultural and social than religious. Did Pew ask their respondents how often they pray? That will give you an indication of how religious they are. When I was a young lad the state forced us to go to church every Sunday and they would take absences. Is that being religious? In small towns there was societal pressure to show up at church. Is that being religious?

Remember that Greece during the exchange of populations in 1922 with Turkey received all groups that were religiously aligned with the Patriarchate of Constantinople. Those included Turcophones and Arvanites, not strictly Greek speakers. So Christianity was a unifying factor even if genetics or language was not. For my father's generation it was important to be identified as a Greek Orthodox (although there are some minority Greek Catholics in some of the islands). It is still important as part of the identity it is still part of "us" vs "them" but being born in Greece and speaking Greek is now more important. We don't consider the Turkish speaking Muslim minority in Western Thrace as Greeks we consider them as Turks.
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What you are saying is that the Greeks are less religious now than 100 years ago. But that is true for all Westerners, even Americans. It's just that religiosity has fallen much more quickly and Western and Northern Europe, so by comparison the Greeks are still quite religious. The very fact that a majority of Greeks assert that religion is (very) important in their lives and that it defines their identity is enough for me to consider them very religious.
 
Maciamo said:
What you are saying is that the Greeks are less religious now than 100 years ago. But that is true for all Westerners, even Americans. It's just that religiosity has fallen much more quickly and Western and Northern Europe, so by comparison the Greeks are still quite religious. The very fact that a majority of Greeks assert that religion is (very) important in their lives and that it defines their identity is enough for me to consider them very religious.
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Clarify religion , do you have to belong to a Religious institution/faith?
..................In the last Australian census , it was noted that no-religion was the second most popular at over 35% ( christian was first at 51% ) ......of the 35% , 7% believed in God or a God, but do not believe in any religious institution, yet this option was placed with no-religion group ...............same as the indigenous % faith under the term Dream-Time
 
Maciamo said:
I started this thread 13 years ago and the signs of global warming have only accelerated since then. LeBrok said I was paranoid about global warming in 2010, but 2013 to 2019 were the hottest years ever recorded.

20202019EOYGlobalTemps_Top10_en_title_lg_900_506_s_c1_c_c.jpg


For the last two years grass in normally cool and rainy Belgium became completely desiccated in summer due to exceptional heat and drought, more typical of Spain than Belgium. This had never been seen before, not just in Belgium but in the northern half of Europe (above the 45th parallel). It feels like we already have a Mediterranean climate here now!

This year cherry trees and forthysia in Brussels are in full bloom now from late February/early March instead of mid April. Some started blossoming at the beginning of February already. That's crazy! Overall we almost haven't had any frost all winter, even at night. The average temperatures have been hovering around 5 to 15°C, which is indeed more like a regular month of April than winter.
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wasn't it stated it was 1 degree warmer in roman times and so it was wetter and more humid around the med ............and with this the romans had 85% of their grain/wheat been grown and coming from modern Algeria ...............it was termed " the Granary of Rome "
the importance of Africa, there is little doubt among historians that Africa and Egypt were the most important sources of grain for Rome.[11] To help assure that the grain supply would be adequate for Rome, in the second century BCE, Gracchus settled 6,000 colonists near Carthage, giving them about 25 hectares (62 acres) each to grow grain.[12]
Grain made into bread was, by far, the most important element in the Roman diet. Several scholars have attempted to compute the total amount of grain need to supply the city of Rome. Rickman estimated that Rome needed 40 million modii (200,000 tonnes) of grain per year to feed its population.[13] Erdkamp estimated that the amount needed would be at least 150,000 tonnes, calculating that each resident of the city consumed 200 kilograms (440 lb) of grain per year.[14] The total population of Rome assumed in calculating these estimates was between 750,000 and one million people. David Mattingly and Gregory Aldrete[15] estimated the amount of imported grain at 237,000 tonnes for 1 million inhabitants;[16] This amount of grain would provide 2,326 calories daily per person not including other foods such as meats, seafood, fruit, legumes, vegetable and dairy. The Historia Augusta, states that Severus left 27 million modii in storage, enough for 800,000 inhabitants at 225 kilograms (496 lb) of bread per person per annum.[17]




plus the bulk of shipping timbers for Carthaginians and later roman fleets coming from cypress pines of north africa.....................
 
torzio said:
wasn't it stated it was 1 degree warmer in roman times and so it was wetter and more humid around the med ............and with this the romans had 85% of their grain/wheat been grown and coming from modern Algeria ...............it was termed " the Granary of Rome "
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Yes, there was a Roman warm period from 250 BCE to AD 400 CE, then a Medieval Warm Period from 950 to c. 1250 CE, but it was warm in comparison to the much cooler periods in between, and the Little Ice Age that last from approximately 1300 to 1850. The Roman Warm period was similar to late 19th and early 20th century. The Medieval Warm period was like the mid 20th century. We are now well beyond that.

1024px-2000_Year_Temperature_Comparison.png


Zooming on the last 170 years

GlobalAverage_2018.png


So what we call Roman Warm period was actually - 0.5°C cooler than the reference year of 1980 and over 1.5°C cooler than the last five years. It wouldn't be so bad if global warming suddenly stopped now. But given the trajectory, it is set to increase by another full degree within 20 to 30 years, which would bring us 2.5°C above the Roman Warm and 3°C above the Little Ice Age low of the late 1500's. Note that the gap between the lowest point of the Little Ice Age and the Roman Warm is only 0.5°C. So 1°C is a lot. Try to imagine what +3°C represents.
 
Maciamo said:
Yes, there was a Roman warm period from 250 BCE to AD 400 CE, then a Medieval Warm Period from 950 to c. 1250 CE, but it was warm in comparison to the much cooler periods in between, and the Little Ice Age that last from approximately 1300 to 1850. The Roman Warm period was similar to late 19th and early 20th century. The Medieval Warm period was like the mid 20th century. We are now well beyond that.

1024px-2000_Year_Temperature_Comparison.png


Zooming on the last 170 years

GlobalAverage_2018.png


So what we call Roman Warm period was actually - 0.5°C cooler than the reference year of 1980 and over 1.5°C cooler than the last five years. It wouldn't be so bad if global warming suddenly stopped now. But given the trajectory, it is set to increase by another full degree within 20 to 30 years, which would bring us 2.5°C above the Roman Warm and 3°C above the Little Ice Age low of the late 1500's. Note that the gap between the lowest point of the Little Ice Age and the Roman Warm is only 0.5°C. So 1°C is a lot. Try to imagine what +3°C represents.
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The fraudulent adjustments made to prior years is well documented, there used to be many blogs that would document this malpractice, one by one they have been shutdown. The illusion of exponential rise is created by artificially decreasing past temperatures.

https://electroverse.net/a-history-of-climate-fraud-i/

The best indicator is talking to shepherds, in Albania and even from Macedonia, old men that engage in animal husbandry have complained that they no longer can take their sheep and cattle to the mountain pastures at the end of March as they did during the 90s up to 2004, now they make this journey in late May. That's not warming trend but a cooling trend.
 
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