Is Turkey a Western country ?

It is understood that as ethnic Albanian defend your nation but for this objection you're only partially right. Because the Turks during the Ottoman rule made a mess in the Balkans. And still a countries that had been under Ottoman boots cannot recover. Albanians were main Turkish allies, but Greeks, Bulgarians, Serbs, Romanians and Armanji suffered most depredations of the Turks and their Balkan Muslim allies.

In the eyes of many Balkan peoples Turks are perceived as occupiers, but in the eyes of many Albanians Turks are perceived as heroes. Someone can says it is history, but unfortunately it is questionable if he or she is right. Yes, some Turkish governments in the past attempted to build relatively good relations with former colonies, and it was good. But since the rise of Islamists in Turkey, things are starting to change. Islamists have indicated that their policy is neo-Ottomanism.

One of many articles in last several years:

Rise of the neo-Ottomans

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/clifford-d-may-rise-of-the-neo-ottomans

"A century later, the world looks rather different. There are good reasons to believe Europe is in decline and America in retreat (these are disparate phenomena). While it may be delusional to believe that Columbus encountered Muslims in the Caribbean, it is not crazy to believe that, over the decades ahead, fierce Muslim warriors will profoundly alter the world order once more.

Viewed in this light, Mr. Erdoğan looks like a neo-Ottoman, one who dreams of commanding Muslims — and those who have submitted to them — in many lands. If that’s accurate, the rift between Turkey and the West can only widen."
...

We will see how the situation will develop further. Balkan nations that have suffered of the Ottoman empire have reasons to worry, although there are those in the Balkans who are happy if neo-Ottomanism grows stronger.
The national hero of Albania is Gjergj Kastrioti. Which mean you are totally wrong in your post. This thread is not about history but the modern days. When Scanderbeg was fighting against the ottomans the Serbian principality was the ottoman's allied. Serbs during that period were helping the ottomans, therefore scanderbeg fought against them either
 
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I am not proud of women right in my country, but each data should be questioned well.

Young Turks surely tried to change some customs. However, even the best will in some things it is difficult to change, to take into account the resistance to change and retrograde movements.

One article from Wikipedia, including Turkey:

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Wife_Beating_in_Islam

Boreas, Young Turks were undoubtedly progressive views and it was not easy to change society. However the trouble that they have demonstrated a high intolerance towards non Turks, especially Armenians, Greeks and Assyrians. Later when they did what they did main problem became Kurdish issue and this continues today.

So it turns out that Turkey is not able to democratically resolve issue of other ethnicities.
 
money for first, spain was bankrupt
and
Islam for other

The ottomans wanted to modernize, but because they inherited the defender of islam from previous centuries,( to their regret) they where held back in development.
People still trying to use the religion for their own interests. Religion has nothing to do in our discussion here. The situation anti democratic in Russia has nothing to do with the Christian orthodox religion, wherein Russians participate mainly. The problems in Balkans and in Turkey have nothing to do with religion and believing in God. It's disgusting when still people are using the religion for their nationalistic interests and their nationalistic expansionism. Islam has nothing to do with Saudi Arabia, nor with Iran. Those despotic and anti democratic countries are using Islam for their own interests.
 
My realistic answer is that Turkey is a kind of western country conquered by Muslims, just as the opposite happened in the Iberian peninsula (Spain).

Spanish Christians embrace more Arab and Muslim culture that the rest of Christians ,and on the other hand Turkish Muslims embrace more the European and Christian culture that the rest of the arabs & Muslims,sincerely these two countries and peoples have much in common :grin:

Arab blood runs in the veins of many Spaniards as in the case of European blood is running in the veins of many Turks, as a consequence of the conquests, many of the Spanish Muslims of the old al-Andalus were baptized a Christian, and many Byzantines Christians were baptized to Islam,I wonder ... why there Aryan Turks, blond and blue eyes :wary2:
I read your post and you are wrong. Why the democratic situation in Russia and China is so bad? The Arabs didn't conquered China and Russia as I know. This is not a matter of blood as you mentioned above. Amazing
 
Its noted in history in all nations - The more power that the religious authorities have , the less modernisation occurs for that nation. Religion is a form of enslavement.

I am a religious person, but I do not believe or listen to any cleric..................my religious education was complete at 10 years of age.
Agree with you.
The religion destroys the state, and the state destroys the religion.
Lets keep them separated as much as possible we can
 
European policies will screw you all anyway,asks the Greek government PM :LOL:

The truth is that European policies intervene too much in the affairs of neighboring countries of the EU itself,the goal is to enslave the non-Muslim peoples, and apply something in these peoples that these peoples are not and have never been prepared to withstand,as in the case of my country, the EU or the so called European council wants and requests of my country that leaves the persecutions of gays and homos, then the EU to consider seeking the legalization of gay marriage in Morocco I think,and by change the EU promises more aid,or more money,can't get everything with money,would be more appropriate that the EU spends that money to feed hungry mouths there are in Europe and which are not few.

It is normal, Albania and Turkey are two countries that have much in common and shared interests, are you waiting a country such as Serbia comes one day and supports or defends Albania, of course not,a country such as Serbia only will wish liquidate Albania or enslave its population, as intend on getting with the despairing European policies.

Personally I appreciate Arab peoples, they are smart and natural. Many Arab people coming in Serbia, relations are good so long since the Non-Aligned movement.

The world is not black-white and there is no one the best path. Arab countries can develop how they want.

But if any country wants to be the part of any block (community of countries) it must accept rules that community. It is very hard process. A lot of points and paragraphs must be met and there is strict supervision. That must, not to be different. What is mistake. When for some special reason, the rules begin to violate. Then the system starts to lose its meaning.
 
I am not religious man also I am not atheist. Since this ramadan, I have not been a muslim according to Turkish istatistics

Even Ataturks path turned into a stone which stays in front of modernisation. It turned into a nationalistic perspective.

According to your idea, Communist Russia would be top level of modernisation.


so I don't think, religion is right answer.
Many things could destroy the democracy . One of them is the religion inside the state organization . I think Turkey last years is having less democracy. Ottomans period was a glorious historical event, but lets keep it historical [emoji6].
 
Someone would expect very strong anti Western feelings and emotions in Serbia, and it would be reasonable due to NATO bombing and destruction, but no. Everyone who comes from the West in Serbia cannot see it. Even many people from the West who do not know the Serbian culture are surprised how this is possible. Well, in Europe people generally know more. Simply people in Serbia are free by nature and liberal, and they are not much conservative. Even first Serbian constitution from 1835 (even Serbia had obligations towards Ottoman Empire) was liberal, that abolished serfdom, granted freedom of speech and the press, while the prince's power was reduced.

One of proofs for what I write are women's right and gender equality. Women in Serbia are very liberal and free. They can do what they want. Serbia is in company with Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Ireland by highest women rights standards:

Gendergap2008.PNG

...
Of course, it can always be better. One smaller part of society harder to accept different sexual orientation, but resistance is less and less.

My opinion is that too conservative society hampers progress and hinders changes. Therefore, there are countries in which I could not live even though I was glad to see everything and go around.
In Albania many times are organized homosexual parades, and no one did anything against them. There is allowed as I know the same-sex marriages. But Albania is not yet really a democratic country. There many things and values to fulfill, if you could call a country democratic. If people still having problems against others flags this is a big problem for the democracy
 
The national hero of Albania is Gjergj Kastrioti. Which mean you are totally wrong in your post. This thread is not about history but the modern days. When Scanderbeg was fighting against the ottomans the Serbian principality was the ottoman's allied. Serbs during that period were helping the ottomans, therefore scanderbeg fought against them either

Do you really want me to enumerate all Muslim Albanians pashas, begs, fighters, etc. who as an Ottoman allies inflicted great suffering Armãnji (Aromanians), Greeks, Serbs, Bulgarians and others?

Only one example.


250px-Dupr%C3%A9_-_Ali_Pasha.jpg


This is Ali Pasha of Tepelana. He is Albanian. He lived 1740-1822. He was appointed pasha, ruler of Sanjak of Ioanina. I will say here only that his troops completely destroyed Moscopole, center of Armanji (Aromanians). Unfortunatelly, Armanji mostly had to flee from region, and they went to Greece, Serbia, Bulgaria etc. It is possible Armanji today would have their state if Ali Pasha did not destroy their region.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscopole

Historians have attributed the decline of the city to a series of raids by Muslim Albanian bandits,[8] that almost destroyed the town in 1769 following the participation of the residents in the preparations for the Orlov Revolt in 1770,[9] and culminated with the abandoning and destruction of Moscopole in 1788.[10][11] Moscopole, once a prosperous city, was reduced to a small village by Ali Pasha.
 
One thing surprises me. Why Albanians so fervently defend Turkey?
Because You have problems with neighbours and You assume that Turkey will support Your cause?
But this mean You guys are going against the interests of Europe because You want an outsider state to intermingle into European politics.
I don't see any Albanian here defending Turkey. You need to read carefully all the posts. I sow many Greeks being against the Germany and defending Russia which is an outsider even much more than Turkey, but I didn't mentioned this in my posts because it will be stupid by me. Please, read more carefully our posts
 
RIFFIAN
Morocco is not part of EU. And You have the right to defend Yourself from European rules if You dislike them. Albania wants and dream to be part of European Community but reading this forum users it seems they don't give much about European internal politics.



I am not sure Serbs want to liquidate Albania. Serbs have problems with Kosovo Albanians. But unlike Turks who killed most of Armenians, Assyrians, Greeks and other ethnic minorities Serbs didn't kill much Albanians. How many Albanians were killed by Serbs? If they had killed millions like Turks in the past, today surely they will not have any problem in Kosovo. Kosovo could be a pure Serbian territory.

P.S. BTW I notice that Albanians also attack Greece. So what harm did Greeks to them?
It was the intervention of NATO that the Milosevic and his Serb criminals of war were stopped to made larger massacres in Kosova. However they already did some massacres in Kosova. Still killed people don't have a grave there
 
And bunch of psychopaths who love killing, raping and torturing people.
Agree.
But there are too many ignorats people either. Ignorance and darkness is very widespread on these regions. It is very sad
 
As I've already said numerous times here - I don't care about democratic tyranny.



If they are in Albania then it's not only allowed but desirable.



He is probably talking about you. We know that CIA is on to destroy an Orthodox church, and it's using Albanians in that project. Off course you love America, when it pumps in a ton of money and gives you a military aid to make your fascist dreams come true.
I really doubt that CIA nor America nor Albania are trying to destroy the orthodox church nor the orthodox religion, as you said above. Please, can you elaborate more, why they have to do such a disgusting thing. A larger part of ethnic Albanians are Christian orthodox. Today prime minister of Albania is an orthodox as we know. Many of the leaders who founded the republic of Albania in 1912 were orthodox . National Albanian hero Gjergj Kastrioti was an orthodox. Albanians are proud of him. Albanians could been not against the orthodox religion, because this mean that they are against themselves either. It's nonsense your claim above. A world religious fight between Christianity and Islam , will destroy the Albanians, because they are Christians and Muslims either, as you know.
 
One thing surprises me. Why Albanians so fervently defend Turkey?
Because You have problems with neighbours and You assume that Turkey will support Your cause?
But this mean You guys are going against the interests of Europe because You want an outsider state to intermingle into European politics.

You well noticed. And right reasons are because Albanians were one of main Turkish allies of all Ottoman Empire.

And today and in future many want.

I give only one example, when Turkish Prime Minister Erdogan came to the Balkans:

http://www.worldbulletin.net/haber/121375/pm-erdogan-turkey-is-kosovo-and-kosovo-is-turkey

His words:

"Turkey is Kosovo and Kosovo is Turkey".

"We are all children of same country".

"Today I greet all Albanians, Bosnians, Turks and Gorans”.

We will build our future together, same as our grandfathers, our ancestors did.

We lived here as brothers for centuries and we will continue so."

(We can see in other websites and newspapers a lot of others statements of the Balkans but for now this is enough.)

...
How one artist sees Turkish Albanian alliance (megahdwallpapers):

turkey_islam_albania_s39603.jpg
 
I read your post and you are wrong. Why the democratic situation in Russia and China is so bad? The Arabs didn't conquered China and Russia as I know. This is not a matter of blood as you mentioned above. Amazing

There is a cultural conquest,it has been used in Russia etc...you ignore that,there are other ways without bloodshed.

You well noticed. And right reasons are because Albanians were one of main Turkish allies of all Ottoman Empire.

And today and in future many want.

I give only one example, when Turkish Prime Minister Erdogan came to the Balkans:

http://www.worldbulletin.net/haber/121375/pm-erdogan-turkey-is-kosovo-and-kosovo-is-turkey

His words:

"Turkey is Kosovo and Kosovo is Turkey".

"We are all children of same country".

"Today I greet all Albanians, Bosnians, Turks and Gorans”.

We will build our future together, same as our grandfathers, our ancestors did.

We lived here as brothers for centuries and we will continue so."

(We can see in other websites and newspapers a lot of others statements of the Balkans but for now this is enough.)

...
How one artist sees Turkish Albanian alliance (megahdwallpapers):

turkey_islam_albania_s39603.jpg

I don't see anything wrong in the statements of erdo,while the Muslim peoples of the Balkans and the Turkish people are happy and satisfied of this historic alliance and brotherhood,no doubt they are,is what matters,these people do not care about the opinion of Serbia or EU,moreover, the Muslim religion also suggests that the relationship between the Muslim peoples (Muslims) to be strong and there is a union between Muslims,you are not Muslim, so it misses you.
 
Aren't you ashamed,

is there any dignity in you?
you are speaking with an Makedonian and you tell crup and bullshit

who murdered Aristotelis Goumas?

just because he spoke Greek in Albania?

DSCF1256.JPG



now back to propaganda office, to find more lies to spread,


you accuse Greece for theocracy and racism,
while in country ALBANIA racists shoot and kill parliament members and walk free,



PS you ask for it,
now taste your poison
Are you going to continue this hatred to the end of the world? Albanians,Turks and Macedonians are genetically and culturally closest to Greeks of all people on this planet! Stop hating your cousins, brothers and sisters.
 

Again, it won't explain, position of Italy and Greece neither Japan and Korea. Biblical view about women is not too different. Torah is also same

" a person (i.e., a man) must make three blessings every day, “… that God has not made me a non-Jew,” “… that God has not made me a woman,” and “… that God has not made me an ignoramus."

Boreas, Young Turks were undoubtedly progressive views and it was not easy to change society. However the trouble that they have demonstrated a high intolerance towards non Turks, especially Armenians, Greeks and Assyrians. Later when they did what they did main problem became Kurdish issue and this continues today.

So it turns out that Turkey is not able to democratically resolve issue of other ethnicities.

Young Turks ideal: Ottomanism which have fed French Humanism, died when Serbians and Greeks followed their bishops.
 
Are you going to continue this hatred to the end of the world? Albanians,Turks and Macedonians are genetically and culturally closest to Greeks of all people on this planet! Stop hating your cousins, brothers and sisters.
.
Culturally Greeks, Albanians, Turks, Macedonians are similar. But genetically not so much. Turks and Greeks appear to be close genetic cousins. The presence of J2a, J1 and G2a I think is high in both ethnic groups. One can spot an Albanian in a Turkish or Greek crowd. Its hard to tell the difference of Turk from west Turkey from a Greek.
 
People still trying to use the religion for their own interests. Religion has nothing to do in our discussion here. The situation anti democratic in Russia has nothing to do with the Christian orthodox religion, wherein Russians participate mainly. The problems in Balkans and in Turkey have nothing to do with religion and believing in God. It's disgusting when still people are using the religion for their nationalistic interests and their nationalistic expansionism. Islam has nothing to do with Saudi Arabia, nor with Iran. Those despotic and anti democratic countries are using Islam for their own interests.

Religion has too much power.

Religion should be a private thing and not a gang thing

All religious leaders should be placed within each nation by the government and each placement should be changed every 2 years.
 

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