Politics Catalonia may become an independent nation soon...

Sile said:
Makes me laugh that the EU has not called madrid to account as being anti-democratic

EU is weak and has failed under the reign of the germans and french
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Either one Spain, either two Spain, still inside EU
 
berun said:
no kidding with this one, if people begins permanent strike cutting highways trains ports and airports to collapse the government economy, even in the case that the Barcelona team wouldn't support the strike by sure it would be difficult to see any "clasico"
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Do you really believe Catalan teams would be thrown out of La Liga by case of segregation. I mean La Liga (the State) makes around half a billion just from the El Classico. La Liga without Barcelona would lose 30-40% of it's viewers and sponsors. It would hurt both sides and I am pretty sure they will find a solution.
 
There were further "advisements" from Spanish responsables that independence would set Barcelona outside Liga

http://www.sport.es/es/noticias/barca/tebas-rompe-espana-rompe-liga-4524757

but many think that this was part of the "no-campaign" sponsored by the state that independent Catalonia would be out of Liga, out of EU (no clear and official answer from EU being so complices), without banks, and set in a kind of diplomatic limbo.

Personaly I don't care about that, I know many would have a pragmatic view but it's also true that after independence the Spanish government would work at 100% against Catalan economy instead to the 50%.
 
Theo Francken, our minister for immigration :

'if this kind of violence from the government were to happen in Poland or Hungary, there would be outrage from Juncker & the like'

The EU ministers clearly don't know how to handle this. They don't want to discuss what is happening. If they could, they'd ignore it all.
 
Now some 750 voters blessed, a child will be paralithic forever. Juncker and co. must choose now if they want to accept fascism inside UE (that there are lower peoples like Slavs or Jews for nazis).

Near mi town 30 or more Spanish policemen charged against voters of Aiguaviva hamlet, some 100 people total.
 
[h=1]Catalan referendum: Riot police 'fire rubber bullets' at crowd as they block voters at besieged polling stations - latest news[/h]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/01/catalan-referendum-spanish-riot-police-force-way-polling-station/

Spanish government is doing a big disservice for Spanish cause. Now Catalans are sure they are making the right decision to go independent way.

I think every ethnicity or a distinct group should be able to achieve independence if majority wants it.
I'm not saying they will be better off, but it should be guaranteed freedom of choice.

In this case, what is the harm for anyone, except bruised ego and national pride? Catalans will go independent, then join EU, so again Spain and Catalonia can enjoy free people and work movement. Almost like nothing happened!
 
the irrational behaviour of the Spanish government seems to be the consequence of personal calculations of some leading politicians who don't want to solve a problme, but want to divert the attention from other serious internal problems
that is how politics works
only this time I think they miscalculated
 
Alan said:
Do you really believe Catalan teams would be thrown out of La Liga by case of segregation. I mean La Liga (the State) makes around half a billion just from the El Classico. La Liga without Barcelona would lose 30-40% of it's viewers and sponsors. It would hurt both sides and I am pretty sure they will find a solution.
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yup maybe Barcelona will play in Premier league,
not that England is in Brexit way.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Alan I thought you are a Kurd,
but you seem to think, as a clear German economist,
determing economical facts above all.
 
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Yetos said:
yup maybe Barcelona will play in Premier league,
not that England is in Brexit way.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Alan I thought you are a Kurd,
you seem to think, but you seem to think, as a clear German economist,
determing economical facts above all.
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It seems you didn't get my post. The central government uses the Barcelona case to bring up fear in some voters. All I say is they would never force Barcelona out of the league, if they did so they would lose allot of money.

Also I already stated 2-3 times in this thread that I am for a free Catalonia.

If the central government doesn't fear the votes and is convinced it is all just few seperatists, than they should/would allow the votum. This kind of unreasonable behaviour will make even the few doubters sure that independence is the right choice.

A reasonable act would be to give the Catalans for example a choice. Like giving them Schottland like status in something like "great Iberia". This would still connect Catalonia to Spain but the Catalans would be far more independent in many aspects. But if they force the people, it will only strengthen the opposition.

We asked from Iraq for an alternative to full independence. But they gave us back a f.. all. So we give it back.
 
Alan said:
It seems you didn't get my post. The central government uses the Barcelona case to bring up fear in some voters. All I say is they would never force Barcelona out of the league, if they did so they would lose allot of money.

Also I already stated 2-3 times in this thread that I am for a free Catalonia.

If the central government doesn't fear the votes and is convinced it is all just few seperatists, than they should/would allow the votum. This kind of unreasonable behaviour will make even the few doubters sure that independence is the right choice.

A reasonable act would be to give the Catalans for example a choice. Like giving them Schottland like status in something like "great Iberia". This would still connect Catalonia to Spain but the Catalans would be far more independent in many aspects. But if they force the people, it will only strengthen the opposition.

We asked from Iraq for an alternative to full independence. But they gave us back a f.. all. So we give it back.
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I know the case of Iraq,
and Bashrani (If I spell correct) said that he will not use the referendum to claim inderedence,
but as a tool for negotiations,
Erdogan is buing guns from all over world, just in case he will face that.

but I do not believe that if Catalania becomes indepentent,
Barcelona will stay with rest Spanish teams,
a new leaga maybe.


my position is just neutral.
 
The Catalans have voted overwhelmingly for independence yesterday. 90% were in favour, about twice higher than opinion polls predicted. The Catalan government said that the referendum was binding and declared independence this morning. The Spanish government won't accept it, so it will be up to other countries, and particularly EU countries to recognise Catalonia as a sovereign state. The British government might object, fearing to boost pro-independence sentiment in Scotland, but they have nothing left to say in EU matters, so their opinion won't matter.

I started this thread 11 years ago. It took time, but now it seems that it would be pointless for anyone to oppose the Catalan independence.
 
Yetos said:
I know the case of Iraq,
and Bashrani (If I spell correct) said that he will not use the referendum to claim inderedence,
but as a tool for negotiations,
Erdogan is buing guns from all over world, just in case he will face that.

but I do not believe that if Catalania becomes indepentent,
Barcelona will stay with rest Spanish teams,
a new leaga maybe.


my position is just neutral.
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Hia name is spelled Barzani not Bashrani. Turkey, Iran, Iraq, threatned to attack if they do the referendum he gone the way. Do you think he risked this all just for negotiations? He gives the Iraqi central government a chance to give an alternative (as I said a Schottland type model) but he knows those chauvinistic Iraqis will have hard time accepting this.
 
Maciamo said:
The Catalans have voted overwhelmingly for independence yesterday. 90% were in favour, about twice higher than opinion polls predicted. The Catalan government said that the referendum was binding and declared independence this morning. The Spanish government won't accept it, so it will be up to other countries, and particularly EU countries to recognise Catalonia as a sovereign state. The British government might object, fearing to boost pro-independence sentiment in Scotland, but they have nothing left to say in EU matters, so their opinion won't matter.

I started this thread 11 years ago. It took time, but now it seems that it would be pointless for anyone to oppose the Catalan independence.
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If EU wants to be competitive with economic giants in the world, it should became more integrated. One of key questions how much separatism and quest for independence of a region within a country can contribute to strengthening integration in the EU. I'm afraid it is inversely, and wasting time and energy, instead of focusing on what is necessarily for EU to be more powerful and more competitive.
 
Garrick said:
If EU wants to be competitive with economic giants in the world, it should became more integrated. One of key questions how much separatism and quest for independence of a region within a country can contribute to strengthening integration in the EU. I'm afraid it is inversely, and wasting time and energy, instead of focusing on what is necessarily for EU to be more powerful and more competitive.
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The EU should be abolish.
Collective economics deals, EU models, are a form of Elite Socialism.
An Elite Union, not for the Workers, but for the Corporations.
Let each Country have one on one economic deals. What’s good for one, it’s not good for another.
Take Responsibility and Compete.
I want my Country to economically beat your Country.
“Economic Integration”. Absolutely Not.
Compete!
Be Proud of Yours, I’m Really Proud of Mine!
 
Salento said:
The EU should be abolish.
Collective economics deals, EU models, are a form of Elite Socialism.
An Elite Union, not for the Workers, but for the Corporations.
Let each Country have one on one economic deals. What’s good for one, it’s not good for another.
Take Responsibility and Compete.
I want my Country to economically beat your Country.
“Economic Integration”. Absolutely Not.
Compete!
Be Proud of Yours, I’m Really Proud of Mine!
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I'm sorry but this is bunch of self conflicting and discordant ideas. Perhaps you should vote for ripping appart USA first into states so they "compete better and be stronger, and everybody gets nationalistic about their "state character".
 
It's true that I know very little about Spanish/Catalonian history but I wonder. Anytime a region of any nation feels that it is being overlooked by government, the population of that region protest. Naturally. But when that region is given a fair share of industry and investment etc. it eventually becomes more and more independent. And then what happens?
 
Miss Marple's nephew said:
It's true that I know very little about Spanish/Catalonian history but I wonder. Anytime a region of any nation feels that it is being overlooked by government, the population of that region protest. Naturally. But when that region is given a fair share of industry and investment etc. it eventually becomes more and more independent. And then what happens?
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an indigenous people of a region belonging to a country would want to leave because either they are financially victimised or their language is being eroded as well as customs.

Spain comprises of these indigenous people
Castilians in majority and others are catalans, galicians, basques, navaresse and a few others . should these other conform fully accepting castilian customs and language for the sake of their own ?
I remember recently that the catalans removed bullfighting from their region as it was not their custom ( one of the reasons ), there was an outrage from Madrid and the castilians for doing this. basically Madrid was trying to enforce castilians customs.

but in the end, I suspect unless the EU folds, that their will be no nations in the EU but only huge regional areas .........in maybe 20 plus years away
 
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