Does genetics prove Iran/Armenia is the original land of Indo-Europeans?

There are many researches which show the original land of Indo-Europeans was a mountainous area, not steppe, for example look at it:

33c5_mountain.jpg
Unless the original Indo-Europeans migrated between the Steppe and the mountains, or were spread over an area of land that included both Steppe and mountains.
 
I think Eupedia too is only saying the spread of IEs were from Pontic steppe so it leaves the question of original homeland of IEs open for discussion for exmple if you see map of R1b in Eupedia it shows Northern Persia as the oldest form of R1b-M343 origin and Turkey as the other possible region of R1b origin who then migrated North of Caucasus to the Steppe region.
 
There are many researches which show the original land of Indo-Europeans was a mountainous area, not steppe, for example look at it:

33c5_mountain.jpg


A few years ago, Vera said in the other forum that the most important concept of PIE is that a CREATOR god makes thunder bolt (METALLURGY) and goes up MOUNTAIN. As I remembered, Vera was a Rigveda expert. I think the mountain would be the coldest mountain.

You said same thing. Which mountain do you think in your mind?

Sintashta culture located in the Ural mountain and their horse is from ARCTIC zone which would be connected to ancient Greek mythology and Aryan. We can find MANDELA concept in the fortified citadel of Arkaim also.

Arkaim culture has the same idol as seima turbino:
http://www.ringingcedarsofrussia.org/theearth/oct12/arkaim-8.jpg

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/38943-iron-age-tocharian-DNA/page2? (post 28)
 
A few years ago, Vera said in the other forum that the most important concept of PIE is that a CREATOR god makes thunder bolt (METALLURGY) and goes up MOUNTAIN. As I remembered, Vera was a Rigveda expert. I think the mountain would be the coldest mountain.

You said same thing. Which mountain do you think in your mind?

Of course Zagros, if you mean a single mountain, it could be Sabalan in Ardabil province in the northwest of Iran, I think the city of Ardabil, capital of Ardabil province, is already the coldest city in the Northern Hemisphere, my friends who are already there say last night it was 8°C (46°F).
 
As I said in another thread there are many evidences which show in the 2nd millennium BC Indo-Europeans lived in the south of Eurasia, from India to south of Italy.

xln9_swastika.jpg


lzyx_sphinx.jpg


rz3n_caduceus.jpg
 
Of course Zagros, if you mean a single mountain, it could be Sabalan in Ardabil province in the northwest of Iran, I think the city of Ardabil, capital of Ardabil province, is already the coldest city in the Northern Hemisphere, my friends who are already there say last night it was 8°C (46°F).

Just for the hell of it, I think Iqaluit (as of 6 a.m. it is 6°C) has Ardabil beat in terms of temperature in the Northern Hemisphere. :grin:

As I said in another thread there are many evidences which show in the 2nd millennium BC Indo-Europeans lived in the south of Eurasia, from India to south of Italy.
xln9_swastika.jpg

lzyx_sphinx.jpg

rz3n_caduceus.jpg

Yeah, Indo-Europeans lived in South Asia, but they didn't exactly originate there according to most data right now. Let's wait to see the final Narasimhan paper and the Rakhigari paper on the subject.
 
Just for the hell of it, I think Iqaluit (as of 6 a.m. it is 6°C) has Ardabil beat in terms of temperature in the Northern Hemisphere. :grin:


Yeah, Indo-Europeans lived in South Asia, but they didn't exactly originate there according to most data right now. Let's wait to see the final Narasimhan paper and the Rakhigari paper on the subject.

I'm talking about Eurasia, both about Ardabil and Indo-Europeans.
 
As I said in another thread there are many evidences which show in the 2nd millennium BC Indo-Europeans lived in the south of Eurasia, from India to south of Italy.



rz3n_caduceus.jpg

china bronze with PIE, horse/chariot, and flood myth:
Anonymous-Fuxi_and_Nüwa.jpg
 
F1.large.jpg

I think it doesn't matter where other IE people lived when we know ancestors of ancient Greeks, the oldest known European people with an IE culture, lived in Iran before 2000 BC, it clearly shows in the 3rd millennium BC Iran was the center of IE culture.
 
F1.large.jpg

I think it doesn't matter where other IE people lived when we know ancestors of ancient Greeks, the oldest known European people with an IE culture, lived in Iran before 2000 BC, it clearly shows in the 3rd millennium BC Iran was the center of IE culture.

The study this image is from does not make the same conclusions as you, you continue to misuse data from papers on ancient DNA to fit your narrative.
 
The study this image is from does not make the same conclusions as you, you continue to misuse data from papers on ancient DNA to fit your narrative.

Would you please use the correct data and tell me who were people who migrated from Iran to Greece in the 2nd millennium BC?

We read similar things about ancient Indians: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetics_and_archaeogenetics_of_South_Asia#AASI-ANI-ASI

Narasimhan et al. (2018) conclude that ANI (Ancestral North Indians) and ASI (Ancestral South Indians) were formed in the 2nd millennium BCE.[68] They were preceded by a mixture of AASI (ancient ancestral south Indians, that is, hunter-gatherers), and Iranian agriculturalists who arrived in India at ca. 4700–3000 BCE, and "must have reached the Indus Valley by the 4th millennium BCE".[68] According to Narasimhan et al., this population, which probably was native to the Indus Valley Civilisation, "contributed in large proportions to both the ANI and ASI", which took shape during the 2nd millennium BCE.
 
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Yes Caucasus, Asia minor, Iran were one region in BA yes.

https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_J2_Y-DNA.shtml The oldest known J2a samples at present were identified in remains from the Hotu Cave in northern Iran, dating from 9100-8600 BCE.

Hotu Cave in Mazandaran is in the east of Neka (Nike), the goddess of victory, near Chalus (Achelous) river, the god of all water and the rivers and Zanus (Zanes) valley, the valley of Gods (plural of Zeus), in the same region is the beautiful village of Kandolus, the god of war, also Halestan (land of Hales/Hellas).

%D8%B1%D9%88%D8%B3%D8%AA%D8%A7%DB%8C-%DA%A9%D9%86%D8%AF%D9%84%D9%88%D8%B3-2-640x330.jpg

Kandolus Village
 
In the ancient Akkadian sources Mazandaran has been mentioned as Mukania, it can be compared to Ancient Greek Μυκῆναι (Mukênai) "Mycenae" and also Avestan Mazainiia which is believed to be from proto-IE meh₂ḱ- "long, big", so Mazandaran is said to be the land of giants. It was in the north of Parhasi (Anceint Greek Perseus) and east of Parsua (Ancient Greek Perses) in the Akkadian sources, the second one was the land of Persians but the first one was one the earliest lands of Indo-Iranians.
 
Would you please use the correct data and tell me who were people who migrated from Iran to Greece in the 2nd millennium BC?

We read similar things about ancient Indians: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetics_and_archaeogenetics_of_South_Asia#AASI-ANI-ASI

I encourage that you read the studies you linked, again they are very specific in laying out that the "Iranian-like" ancestry is agriculturalist or "farmer" ancestry. Which you also highlighted in your wikipedia link above. Iranian agriculturalists, are a population that is different from that of the Steppe pastoralists.

Here is Eurogenes discussion (read some comments if you are interested) on the two studies you linked: http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2019/03/ancient-island-hopping-in-western.html

Secondly Iranian-agriculturalist is not the same as Steppe-pastoralist and the Iranian-farmer ancestry preceeded the Steppe ancestry in the example you provided in your Wikipedia link.

Caucasus, Steppe, Europe or everywhere else, look at it: Genetic origins of the Minoans and Mycenaeans, the original land was somewhere haplogroup J2 existed, as you read before 2,000 BC Greece and western Anatolia were dominated by Y-chromosome haplogroup G2.

To quote the paper:

Minoans and Mycenaeans were genetically similar, having at least three-quarters of their ancestry from the first Neolithic farmers of western Anatolia and the Aegean1,2, and most of the remainder from ancient populations related to those of the Caucasus3 and Iran4,5.

However, the Mycenaeans differed from Minoans in deriving additional ancestry from an ultimate source related to the hunter–gatherers of eastern Europe and Siberia6,7,8, introduced via a proximal source related to the inhabitants of either the Eurasian steppe1,6,9 or Armenia4,9.

Again, I encourage you read these papers and don't make knee-jerk assumptions based off of haplogroups alone, It is not known for sure yet which language the Minoans spoke, their Linear A alphabet is not yet understood, in contrast with the Mycenaean Greek Linear B.
 
I encourage that you read the studies you linked, again they are very specific in laying out that the "Iranian-like" ancestry is agriculturalist or "farmer" ancestry. Which you also highlighted in your wikipedia link above. Iranian agriculturalists, are a population that is different from that of the Steppe pastoralists.

Here is Eurogenes discussion (read some comments if you are interested) on the two studies you linked: http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2019/03/ancient-island-hopping-in-western.html

Secondly Iranian-agriculturalist is not the same as Steppe-pastoralist and the Iranian-farmer ancestry preceeded the Steppe ancestry in the example you provided in your Wikipedia link.



To quote the paper:





Again, I encourage you read these papers and don't make knee-jerk assumptions based off of haplogroups alone, It is not known for sure yet which language the Minoans spoke, their Linear A alphabet is not yet understood, in contrast with the Mycenaean Greek Linear B.

According to your link:

A series of studies have documented how Steppe pastoralist-related ancestry reached central Europe by at least 2500 BCE, while Iranian farmer-related ancestry was present in Aegean Europe by at least 1900 BCE.

We know they were Minoans who lived in Greece in the 3rd millennium BC and Mycenaeans migrated there in the 2nd millennium BC, so Mycenaean cultured related to Iranian one.
 

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