Politics Will Russia Attack Ukraine?

Malaparte said:
First, you appear to have forgotten about Nixon's trip to China. Back then, the US had competent leaders. We peeled China away from Russia. Post-1989, and certainly in this century, China has been the #1 adversary. Accordingly the simple logic: Peel Russia away from China. There is nothing complicated about this.

Second, all this talk of removing so-called dictators -- remove Saddam! remove Assad! remove Gadaffi! remove Putin! -- is a very bad intellectual habit that took root in the 1990s, during the unipolar moment. It is no way to conduct diplomacy or make policy.

Putin has the support of the entire Russian state. This is a fact. Deal with it.
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I was against regime change in those countries, because the knuckleheads you remove and the ones you replace them with are often the same. If those different Muslim groups want to kill each other and fight, then trying to stop what amounts to civil wars is not worth getting US servicemen killed. I was opposed to every one of those operations. But in this case, Putin invaded another sovereign country and the USA is not going to invade Russia and do regime change, they are giving weapons to the Ukrainians to defend their country from Putin's invasion. If the Russians want to live with Putin, God Bless them, but him invading a country of 40 plus million who chose after the fall of the Soviet Union, freely, that they wanted nothing more to do with anything related to the former Soviet Union, that is different. If the Russians internally decide they want Putin gone, then God Bless them again.

So my personal opinion, if the Russian Military, Cyber hack groups, Oligarchs want Putin gone, let them do it internally.
 
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dominique_nuit said:
T
You are advocating a bipolar order. I prefer a multipolar order, with Russia joined with Carolingian Europe rather than China.

Russia seems like it has already chosen, or more so, it never chose not to leave its informal alliance with China.

Cheers.
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[/QUOTE]

Imo an otherworldly position. The Europeans have, in cooperation with the US, made Russians under Putin to a paria. This has already reached a point of no return with Putin's Russia.

We can survive it when Russia turns the 'gas tap' off now. And for the rest we have a zero dependance of Russia. They have a simplistic economy with a GDP as big as the Benelux (60% incomes is gas and oil, 84% of gas and oil go to Europe). They are not an economic giant. The Russian economy is already in a free fall now.

We live mostly in old stabile democracies with advanced economies so no need to join or cooperate with Putin's Russia.
The Transatlantic cooperation stays important even more in the long term with regard to China.
 
Data from today until 6 PM:

Already 326,000 Ukrainian refugees have come to Poland since the war's outbreak, including 73,000 today.
 
Imo an otherworldly position. The Europeans have, in cooperation with the US, made Russians under Putin to a paria. This has already reached a point of no return with Putin's Russia.

We can survive it when Russia turns the 'gas tap' off now. And for the rest we have a zero dependance of Russia. They have a simplistic economy with a BBP as big as the Benelux (60% incomes is gas and oil, 84% of gas and oil go to Europe). They are not an economic giant. The Russian economy is already in a free fall now.

We live mostly in old stabile democracies with advanced economies so no need to join or cooperate with Putin's Russia.
The Transatlantic cooperation stays important even more in the long term with regard to China.[/QUOTE]

Northerner [Re post #633]: Not to be the edit police, but that first sentence you quoted is not mine. The 2nd one, that one, yes.
 
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Palermo Trapani said:
Imo an otherworldly position. The Europeans have, in cooperation with the US, made Russians under Putin to a paria. This has already reached a point of no return with Putin's Russia.

We can survive it when Russia turns the 'gas tap' off now. And for the rest we have a zero dependance of Russia. They have a simplistic economy with a BBP as big as the Benelux (60% incomes is gas and oil, 84% of gas and oil go to Europe). They are not an economic giant. The Russian economy is already in a free fall now.

We live mostly in old stabile democracies with advanced economies so no need to join or cooperate with Putin's Russia.
The Transatlantic cooperation stays important even more in the long term with regard to China.
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Northerner [Re post #633]: Not to be the edit police, but that first sentence you quoted is not mine. The 2nd one, that one, yes.[/QUOTE]

May aim was to target the supposed European/ Germany and Russian alliance....I know this is from Dominique.
 
Palermo Trapani said:
Malaparte: Nothing liberal, if by that you mean aligned to the modern DEM party in the USA, about me.
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When I say liberal, I mean the post-1945/post-1989 order built by the US and which served the interests of its elite governing classes


Palermo Trapani said:
But Putin curbing freedom of the press is one thing is non-negotiable for me. I am all for more and more different press organizations. The liberals hate Fox news and conservative talk radio (i.e. like the late Rush Limbaugh), the Wall street Journal editorial page (which is right of center), the conservatives hate CNN, MSNBC and the legacy print media (NYT, WAPO). I am for all media and I think I am smart enough to figure out what is legit and what is BS. But Putin's retrograde signs were present the moment he took power. Cracking down on the press at the same time asking for NATO membership are are not things that are aligned.
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I am greatly committed to free speech, more than most people here. I say this from experience. However, corporate censorship is a reality that people who think in any overly formalistic way appear unable to grasp. Corporate censorship is more pervasive and more sophisticated than state censorship.

So, yes, I believe in free speech. But I don't imagine that Putin is its greatest enemy.
 
Northerner said:
Imo an otherworldly position. The Europeans have, in cooperation with the US, made Russians under Putin to a paria. This has already reached a point of no return with Putin's Russia.
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Only time will tell. Certainly Europe has turned against Russia as of today. This reflects the power of the mass media and the corruption of its current leaders (no less corrupt than American leaders). But soon reality will make itself felt. The era of "narratives" has been brought to an end.

Reality #1 --> Russian missiles & troops stationed directly opposite NATO installations along western borders of Belarus & Ukraine

Reality #2 ---> major energy crisis in Europe -- on this one, only time will tell how much pain Europeans are willing to endure --> and for what reason? ---> people will suffer for a just cause, but not for cynical games
 
Northener said:
Yes and the original Germani spoke celtic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germani_cisrhenani
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The Germani cisrhenani were not representative for the whole of the Germanic tribes.
The cisrehani were those who had crossed the Rhine and had settled among domestic Celtic tribes.
The Belgae conquered by Julius Caesar were not all Celtic, they were a allready a mixture of Celtic and Germanic tribes.
That's why they were more fierce in battle than the Gauls.
 
bigsnake49 said:
Those MIG-29s cost a lot to maintain and probably gathering dust. Let the Ukrainians have them. The other thing is that all the airfields have been bombed and are unusable. That's why the drones are so much better.
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I'd like to see those drones.
IMO you can't launch rockets from a drone.
The only one who does such things is James Bond.
 
bicicleur 2 said:
https://www.popularmechanics.com/mi...rmy-tanks-vulnerable-against-drones-congress/

appearantly they don't launch rockets, they drop small bombs.
I guess some high precision is required to hit the target in the right spot.
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the 'drones' they actualy use are rather small unmanned planes
they need a runway to take off and land

1024px-Bayraktar_TB2_Runway.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baykar_Bayraktar_TB2
 
bicicleur 2 said:
The Germani cisrhenani were not representative for the whole of the Germanic tribes.
The cisrehani were those who had crossed the Rhine and had settled among domestic Celtic tribes.
The Belgae conquered by Julius Caesar were not all Celtic, they were a allready a mixture of Celtic and Germanic tribes.
That's why they were more fierce in battle than the Gauls.
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View attachment 13143
Map of the Roman Empire and Magna Germania in the early second century
 
bicicleur 2 said:
The Germani cisrhenani were not representative for the whole of the Germanic tribes.
The cisrehani were those who had crossed the Rhine and had settled among domestic Celtic tribes.
The Belgae conquered by Julius Caesar were not all Celtic, they were a allready a mixture of Celtic and Germanic tribes.
That's why they were more fierce in battle than the Gauls.
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They certainly were the original name givers. And indeed the rest is arbitrary. No coverage form Uppsala to Wijnaldum. There is no such thing as a German nucleus or unity. #backtotpic
 
Malaparte said:
When I say liberal, I mean the post-1945/post-1989 order built by the US and which served the interests of its elite governing classes

I am greatly committed to free speech, more than most people here. I say this from experience. However, corporate censorship is a reality that people who think in any overly formalistic way appear unable to grasp. Corporate censorship is more pervasive and more sophisticated than state censorship.

So, yes, I believe in free speech. But I don't imagine that Putin is its greatest enemy.
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There was in Europe never such prosperity than after ww2, with a high emancipation of ordinary people. The Golden Years at least in the west.

Neoliberalism released the beast.....with regard to big corporates.

Speaking about free speech ask it to Navalny.....or just the ordinary Rus wo wants to demonstrate against war. Free speech?
 
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