Neolithic farmers from germany Derenburg LBK

torzio said:
Years ago..I read that these people where chasing the Red Deer ( living in these areas ) for meat ..............they banded in groups of about 10...usually 7 men and 3 women ............a women in the group would over time have a child from a different man in the group.....scenario is not hard to accept
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Could you please provide a source for this conclusion? Sounds rather outlandish.
 
MOESAN said:
Uneasy to check. And 3 woman for 7 guy is very low to maintain cohesion in a group, IMO. And how can we verify this sharing of women was so well accepted then? Except maybe if this sharing was the only mean to maintain cohesion in survival conditions and in a small group? I stay puzzled here.
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Indeed, too few women for the men very often leads to instability.

I don't know if you ever followed what happened to the men on the HMS Bounty, led by Christian Fletcher in a mutiny against their captain. Most hid on Pitcairn island along with some Polynesian men and women. When they were rediscovered only one of the Bounty crew survived. All the rest were dead, having killed each other over various disputes, prominent among them fights over the women, who were much fewer in number.

It is speculated that part of the reason why, for example, in the Indo-European culture, where powerful chiefs had more than one wife, young men were encouraged to go raiding for land and women. It breeds turmoil either within or without.

The same shows up in polygamous cults here in the U.S. where the elite men just expel their surplus sons when they reach about 17 or 18.

Not that some cultures don't practice polyandry, but the most common form it takes is fraternal polyandry, where two brothers marry the same woman, i.e. Tibet etc.

It is mainly practiced in poor families with small landholdings who can't divide the property among the offspring of separate fathers or they'll all face starvation. So they keep their property big by having equal access to the same woman. The property still stays in the blood line, so to speak.

[FONT=&quot]There's a hint of that kind of thinking among the Jewish ultra-orthodox, if I'm not mistaken. When a man dies, his brother is to marry his brother's widow. It's my understanding that nowadays it only applies to a brother who is unmarried at the time. It's also my understanding that the woman has to be released by the brother if she wishes to marry someone else. It's to continue the bloodline, or perhaps originally also to make sure the widow wouldn't descend into poverty. To clarify, I've never studied the issue, but was told this by my husbands' partner, who is Orthodox.

At any rate, it's all speculation when we're talking about practices in pre-history. One elite man taking multiple wives has been a common practice in many cultures, but three women for seven men? Why would that even occur? Female and male birth rates skew female if anything, and men get killed in battles. [/FONT]
 
Saw this reasoning on the "first farmers" on a documentary less than a year ago.............it was about hunting red deer in northern/central Germany and after a while on the hunt these groups would get together to farm barley to make an alcoholic beverage to praise their gods...........they would move sites every year ......................it was also about the temporary living areas these archeologists discovered.

I then read about this theory
 
MOESAN said:
Uneasy to check. And 3 woman for 7 guy is very low to maintain cohesion in a group, IMO. And how can we verify this sharing of women was so well accepted then? Except maybe if this sharing was the only mean to maintain cohesion in survival conditions and in a small group? I stay puzzled here.
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There where many of these groups roaming around Northern and central Germany hunting Red Deer

one of the many sites I read up on

https://www.researchgate.net/public...tlement_of_Rottenburg-Frobelweg_South_Germany
 
torzio said:
There where many of these groups roaming around Northern and central Germany hunting Red Deer

one of the many sites I read up on

https://www.researchgate.net/public...tlement_of_Rottenburg-Frobelweg_South_Germany
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Is this the documentary to which you were referring?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-bQx0ZtHUw

I watched it and there's no mention of any such practices.

I also just read the article you cited and there's nothing about marriage practices.

Perhaps you could check your files for the pertinent citation.
 
Angela said:
Indeed, too few women for the men very often leads to instability.

I don't know if you ever followed what happened to the men on the HMS Bounty, led by Christian Fletcher in a mutiny against their captain. Most hid on Pitcairn island along with some Polynesian men and women. When they were rediscovered only one of the Bounty crew survived. All the rest were dead, having killed each other over various disputes, prominent among them fights over the women, who were much fewer in number.

It is speculated that part of the reason why, for example, in the Indo-European culture, where powerful chiefs had more than one wife, young men were encouraged to go raiding for land and women. It breeds turmoil either within or without.

The same shows up in polygamous cults here in the U.S. where the elite men just expel their surplus sons when they reach about 17 or 18.

Not that some cultures don't practice polyandry, but the most common form it takes is fraternal polyandry, where two brothers marry the same woman, i.e. Tibet etc.

It is mainly practiced in poor families with small landholdings who can't divide the property among the offspring of separate fathers or they'll all face starvation. So they keep their property big by having equal access to the same woman. The property still stays in the blood line, so to speak.

There's a hint of that kind of thinking among the Jewish ultra-orthodox, if I'm not mistaken. When a man dies, his brother is to marry his brother's widow. It's my understanding that nowadays it only applies to a brother who is unmarried at the time. It's also my understanding that the woman has to be released by the brother if she wishes to marry someone else. It's to continue the bloodline, or perhaps originally also to make sure the widow wouldn't descend into poverty. To clarify, I've never studied the issue, but was told this by my husbands' partner, who is Orthodox.

At any rate, it's all speculation when we're talking about practices in pre-history. One elite man taking multiple wives has been a common practice in many cultures, but three women for seven men? Why would that even occur? Female and male birth rates skew female if anything, and men get killed in battles.
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I did not know all the details you mention but my experience of human nature (and in fact of a lot of mammals nature) pushed me to edit my doubts. The beast hides not deep under the polished skin.
 
MOESAN said:
I did not know all the details you mention but my experience of human nature (and in fact of a lot of mammals nature) pushed me to edit my doubts. The beast hides not deep under the polished skin.
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Beautiful description of an ugly reality.
 
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