Religion On the conservative Catholic Church

Times looked as if they were changing. Last month, a married man was allowed to become priest in Spain, which seemed like a big step forward for the Catholic church's adaptation to the modern world.

However, this news may make us want to reconsider :
BBC News : Vatican 'to ban new gay priests'

For memo, over half of the Christian of any denomination in the world are Catholic (add to that the Anglicans who have a very similar dogma), making Catholicism the most potent image of Christianity itself.

It's a bit off-topic, but it seems to me that Catholicism is not even the monotheist religion it claims to be. There are hundreds of saints in which some people fervently believe. Some worship them the same way as Greco-Roman gods were worshiped. But is it hardly surprising when we know that some of the Catholic saints do share some attributes with pagan gods. Saints are "protectors" of "something". For example, believers pray St. Anthony when they have lost something, in the hope the the "near-deity" will help them find it. There are chapels and churches dedicated to each saint, making it a sort of continuity of the Roman temples dedicated to a particular god.

So Catholic Christianity is in fact more like a polytheist religion, with God Almighty as Jupiter ruling over the lesser gods (saints).

I'm surprised it took so long for the Catholic Church to do this. Benedict XVI is and was known for his conservative views. Never know he might go back to the 'Earth is flat'.
Seriously though. Doing such things will damage the churches reputation, especially in the western countries where it will be seen as intolerance and inflexiblity to keep up with the modeern world.
You may want to start a new topic on the polythesim of the Catholic/ Christian faith or it might fit into one of the current topics that are already there.

About the conservative Catholic church (ignoring the monotheism/polytheism issue)....

I'm not surprised the Pope doesn't change yet the teaching about homosexuality. Because, it's not a question of the church having to move with the times. For example, on many scientific issues the church was so slow! like 'flat earth' and that kind of thing. And for issues like cloning and genetic engineering and suchlike, I can see that people in the church have to think about ethical issues, and be thinking, 'what is the right?' and 'we must not be at the back of scientific progress' but also 'is this ethically ok?' But homosexuality is not new; it has been around for as long as human beings, so I see no reason to suppose that the church changes its teaching now.

Many religions have 'rules' that I don't agree with, but I don't expect them to change just because people disagree with them, otherwise I'm thinking they wouldn't be a very firm religion to alter always with public opinion.

Maciamo, as I understand it, the idea of ordaining a married man is not new. I think the Catholic church occasionally ordains married men who have been clergy in other denominations and have converted to Catholicism. But an ordained man can never get married.

I've always had a problem with the idea of priests being celibate - and I know Catholics who don't agree with it either. We all have a natural sexual appetite, and to deny the proper fulfilment of this seems wrong to me - and in the case of the Catholic church it seems to open people up to all kinds of temptations. I have to disagree with Kinsao about not expecting a religion to change if I don't agree with it. Catholics have to live in society with the rest of us, and they judge us all the time, so we have the right to disagree with them too!

I think that love between two people is the most important thing any of us can attain, and I think the Catholic church is wrong to deny this to its priests. I disagree with all the reasons I have heard for it:
1. It gives the priests authority by being one way to set them above worldly concerns - but I don't believe in any one person having authority over another
2. It means the priests are 'married to god' - but people can be utterly devoted to two things - aren't good parents equally devoted to their spouse and all their children?
3. The ability to suppress sexual desire shows committment and dedication - I don't think normal sexual urges can be repressed indefinitely if a person is to remain healthy - any more than denying oneself any other appetite. If we suppress this desire we are going to screw ourselves up just as surely as if we starved ourselves
4. Jesus wasn't married - now that is open to argument!
5. It is a matter of discipline - I would call it a matter of distrust. Protestant clergy don't have a problem with performing their duties and being married.

I can't think of any more excuses that are put forward for not allowing priests to marry, but I just know I don't agree with it!

Tsuyoiko said:

Maciamo, as I understand it, the idea of ordaining a married man is not new. I think the Catholic church occasionally ordains married men who have been clergy in other denominations and have converted to Catholicism. But an ordained man can never get married.

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But I thought that the idea was "no sex for priests", and so marriage was just a natural consequence. If they are already married, does that mean that they can't have sex with their spouse anymore ? As you say yourself, it's a matter of repressing one's sexual desires. So priests are also forbidden to have sex outside marriage, and theoretically also to masturbate. How does that reconcile with ordaining a married priest ?

2. It means the priests are 'married to god' - but people can be utterly devoted to two things - aren't good parents equally devoted to their spouse and all their children?

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Doesn't marriage include the ideas of sex and having children ? If not, why would the Catholic Church disapprove of having sex or children outside marriage ? How does a priest have sex or children with god ?

4. Jesus wasn't married - now that is open to argument!

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And nobody said/wrote he was a virgin (there is enough fuss about his mother being one, but not a mention about Jesus, which would then presuppose that he did). What's more, if any good Christian had to refrain from marrying or having sex because Jesus did it, then Catholic Christianity would quickly face extinction.

Well originally priests were not required to be celibate but after so many scandals in the early days of the Catholic church drastic measures were taken. Maybe we should let the priests enjoy themselves a bit more seeing the recent pedophelia scandals in America. Plus I always found it funny that a celibate man would lecture others on marriage, love, and the family... that's just so strange..........

Maciamo said:

But I thought that the idea was "no sex for priests", and so marriage was just a natural consequence. If they are already married, does that mean that they can't have sex with their spouse anymore ? As you say yourself, it's a matter of repressing one's sexual desires. So priests are also forbidden to have sex outside marriage, and theoretically also to masturbate. How does that reconcile with ordaining a married priest ?

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Actually it's true what Tsuyoiko said.

Tsuyoiko said:

the Catholic church occasionally ordains married men who have been clergy in other denominations and have converted to Catholicism.

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And of course it's ok that he have sex with his wife!

Duo said:

Plus I always found it funny that a celibate man would lecture others on marriage, love, and the family... that's just so strange..........

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Yeah, it does seem strange. :clueless: But, thinking about it, priests do see one hell of a lot of other people's problems. People go to them for advice... they often take their problems and issues to talk about... and for advice on moral and ethical issues of course... I guess you could say they 'see a lot of the world' (to put it one way) and often the negative aspects (as you would expect if you had a job where people tell you about their 'sins' - no matter if you agree or not with what is 'sins', all the same, it must be a bit like being counsellor or something at times!).

I'm not saying that as argument or justification of some kind, it was just a thought that went into my head.... :relief:

Maciamo said:

But I thought that the idea was "no sex for priests", and so marriage was just a natural consequence. If they are already married, does that mean that they can't have sex with their spouse anymore ?

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I'm confused too. I think the idea is that celibacy is a matter of discipline rather than theology, so that if someone is already married and an experienced clergyman, an exception can be made. The fact that they can break their own rule makes you wonder even more how important it can be.

Maciamo, as I understand it, the idea of ordaining a married man is not new. I think the Catholic church occasionally ordains married men who have been clergy in other denominations and have converted to Catholicism. But an ordained man can never get married.

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Depending on the discipline that the ordained man comes from, yes. However, the ruling has been that the converted clergyman must forego marital relations with his spouse. Whether that ruling continues in force I do not know, but I doubt that there will have been any change. Odd when the matter is considered - Peter himself was married.