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Thread: Don't ignore the 'ignore list'.

  1. #51
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    So far the ignore button is still under our countrol. I can choose to ignore or "unignore" (which you have to do to send a pm.) and like elizabeth said be prepared to take the consequences. Removal of posts and threads however is still under moderator control-- which is a good thing. I will comply with the requests of moderators because I feel the need for order sometimes outweighs my need for expression. I don't always have to get my way. *(goes off and pouts)*

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    Nani?

    What requests are these? Did I miss something?

    Anyway, I agree that in an extreme case the ignore function could be nessecary--I'm not complaining about having it--but what it boils down to is that to use it would mean I am not mature enough to deal with someone who offends me any other way.

    The root of censorship is when someone feels offended by something, and rather than deal with it themselves asks a higher authority to act as a "parent" and protect them from the offending material...

    ...it's simply not a mature way of dealing with your problems.

    Granted, some could argue that getting pissed and telling someone off is immature, but I think that is a common misconception. Personally, I feel it is more mature and polite to respond honestly--it is degrading to both sides if you do otherwise.

    Of course, I realize I am in the minority in this opinion--but to be honest, I feel that is because too many people mindlessly accept whatever they are told growing up, and never bother to think for themselves.
    Baka ningen.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reiku
    Nani?
    What requests are these? Did I miss something?
    Anyway, I agree that in an extreme case the ignore function could be nessecary--I'm not complaining about having it--but what it boils down to is that to use it would mean I am not mature enough to deal with someone who offends me any other way.
    The root of censorship is when someone feels offended by something, and rather than deal with it themselves asks a higher authority to act as a "parent" and protect them from the offending material...
    ...it's simply not a mature way of dealing with your problems.
    Of course, I realize I am in the minority in this opinion--but to be honest, I feel that is because too many people mindlessly accept whatever they are told growing up, and never bother to think for themselves.
    I personally don't think that it is just a maturity issue, then again that is purely my opinion. Many times I see that people can not discern between "reality" and an internet message board. People think or feel that they are free from consequences when they ***** a board or issue threats to other members. If the board is moderated then people like this tend to disappear after time.
    However then you open yourself, (the moderator/admin) to allegations of censureship, so which is it going to be? Each person needs to make an active choice on whether or not they want to participate in a discussion.
    If there is someone they feel they can't get along with then using the ignore button is not being imature, it is showing an ability to separate oneself from their problems without having to actually stop participating in the discussion.
    ...it's simply not a mature way of dealing with your problems.
    That all depends on the person, to make a blatant statement such as that makes the assumption that everyone is like you. Which of course they are not. What is right for one is not necessarily right for all as I am sure you are aware. Then what options do people have? Not to participate if they find someone particularly offensive, or perhaps have opinions that differ from their own? Noone would be left to discuss anything except the ****** and offensive people who enjoy inflicting pain on others. This board would die.
    --it is degrading to both sides if you do otherwise.
    I'm sorry but I disagree with this statement, blowing off steam on an internet message board serves its purpose as well.

  4. #54
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    I don't mind following the directions of a moderator. They can provide an important protection to an internet community such as ours from flaming and ********. I need an objective eye sometimes to tell me if I am getting out of line and I do not feel put upon to be corrected... even if I may not specifically agree with the correction. Self censorship is not necessarily a bad thing. We as a community are doing this voluntarily-- and it is not imposed by some Big Brother.

  5. #55
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    I am wondering about the ignore button, when you put people on ignore you can’t see their posts, but how about them, can they see yours?

  6. #56
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    Yes, unless they've put you on their ignore list.

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    Interesting these last few exchanges. I was wondering if a program could be written into the forum that would make a "Hide" command.

    This command would let us list who we don`t want our posts to be viewed by. That way, those who are known to be too sensitive or antagonistic whenever a new post or thread is written on a certain topic, can be kept from becomng insulted or offended because of their sensitivities to a topic by preventing them from viewing it. I guess that would be kind of like empowering members limited powers of banning certain people just from viewing what they have to say on something.

    Would this kind of command be possible?


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    I don't agree. With that kind of power you could put up all sorts of inflammatory remarks and know that you could literally ban someone from your threads or posts. The only way to avoid people from getting over stressed at posts or threads is to think about it before posting it. You could also end up getting very cliquey and I could see an open forum being a waste of time. Might as well just email people. If you want to talk about a subject with someone or several people PM them and go into a side room in chat

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    I disagree, Mycernius. However, I do see your concern. Perhaps it would be good if there were a limit as to how many people a person could put on their "hide" list. Say 1, for all members under 500 posts. 2 for 1000. 3 for 2000.

    Or it could be contingent on the number of threads people create but only those threads that attracted a certain number of posts or hits would be counted toward the priviledge of getting some "hide" power.

    If there are controls put into the programming of it then I don`t think it could be abused to create cliques.

    I think it is worth the discussion.

  10. #60
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    There has to be some kind of limits in a forum like this. This is not just some free for all.

    I think it's a fend for yourself type thing, mostly. It's upon yourself to act in a mature manner. I mean, it seems most of us are past the grammar school playground stage. N'est-ce pas?

    Thomas & Co. made this forum the way it is and I don't think it's anyone's place to come in and so strongly suggest making dramatic changes. Of course, Thomas & Co. have the right to say no, but I, myself, would never even consider suggesting to make any major changes, because I would(and do) feel it is upon myself(and no one else) to behave.

    Lately it seems that there are some members who think one's opinion is somehow better than the other's and that one's word is somehow better than the other's, and it's getting very old.

    I'm finding it hard to keep away from that Rodney King quote...
    You have bewitched me, body and soul...

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    Quote Originally Posted by kirei_na_me
    Thomas & Co. made this forum the way it is and I don't think it's anyone's place to come in and so strongly suggest making dramatic changes. Of course, Thomas & Co. have the right to say no, but I, myself, would never even consider suggesting to make any major changes, because I would(and do) feel it is upon myself(and no one else) to behave.
    Lately it seems that there are some members who think one's opinion is somehow better than the other's and that one's word is somehow better than the other's, and it's getting very old.
    I really can`t see why you seem so against "opinions" and "suggestions" for the forum, KNM. In fact, the sectoin title of this forum section clearly invites us to do so:

    Site Feedback/Admin Contact: Post your ideas, suggestions or complaints (open to guests).

    So, what`s the problem when "ideas" and "suggestions" are specifically and unambiguosly being sought out?

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    OR...why not let the "rep points" be viewed as money to purchase a "hide" command. However, it should be a costly purchase -- perhaps 1000 points to hide one person. That way, the rep points as money will have some value other than just comments of support from others. It would also perhaps encourage more people to participate in awarding rep.

    I think it would also encourage people to be even more helpful to others with comments so that if they want to purchase a "hide" someone command, they have to earn it by being an active member.

    Again, just throwing some ideas out like the forum section title and sub title asks us to do.

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    I agree with SVF

    Stop! .......Everybody!

    In fact, SVF has a most wonderful idea here!

    I endorse it; and endorse it wholeheartedly.

    Just stop and think ... if you wish to write all sorts of cr*p about somebody and you don't want them to read it ..... just “hide” them! If you want to write all sorts of cr*p and not receive a response of any kind from a particular individual .... “hide” them!

    It's the final solution to a problem that all fora face!

    Just stop and think about it! The ramifications are awesome! And I have no problem with earning the rights to exercise this “power” either.

    (The only problem I can think of is ...... what happens if everyone chose to “hide” .... the same poster ....... ? How unfortunate for them that would be .....! But, I digress ....)

    Perhaps the moderators et al would give this more serious thought, and not dismiss it too lightly ..... ?

    Excellent and innovative suggestion. A final solution indeed!

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  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sensuikan San
    Stop! .......Everybody!
    In fact, SVF has a most wonderful idea here!
    I endorse it; and endorse it wholeheartedly.
    Hi John,

    I am glad you like the suggestion. Your comments, too (though not sure if you were being serious or sarcastic), are interesting. I will address some of them.

    Just stop and think ... if you wish to write all sorts of cr*p about somebody and you don't want them to read it ..... just “hide” them! If you want to write all sorts of cr*p and not receive a response of any kind from a particular individual .... “hide” them!
    Just to "hide" someone and then feel free to write "[email protected]" about someone would not be permitted. For one, mods would be immune from being "hidden," therefore, they could still catch any flaming directed at someone as a personal attack.

    The purpose of the "hide" would not be to protect yourself from a reply from someone (though it could be used that way), the purpose would be to protect someone from constantly being "offended" by what you say based on their sensitivity for a topic that you have come to learn of. It could be seen as being courteous, -- such as when you are at a party, and you wish to talk about a topic you know someone else in the room is sensitive about, you lower your voice to talk about it to the person next to you, or you move into another room with the one you are talking with -- out of earshot from the one who is sensitive to the topic at hand, or perhaps the way you talk about it.

    It's the final solution to a problem that all fora face!
    Just stop and think about it! The ramifications are awesome! And I have no problem with earning the rights to exercise this “power” either.
    I do think it has merit and it could be a command that sets this forum off from many others. I have not seen this command elsewhere. Just wondering if it hasn`t been done because the programming for making it possible for members to be do would be too hard to create without letting them have access to a control panel. ??? But, if it can only be done through the control panel of admin, then all "hides" bought by someone would have to be submitted to them and then they would have to execute the purchase.

    (The only problem I can think of is ...... what happens if everyone chose to “hide” .... the same poster ....... ? How unfortunate for them that would be .....!

    Like I said, controls could be put in place and my thought on it is just the basic thought. I think it can be improved with further deeper thought on the issue. Perhaps a person being "hidden" can only be done so by 5 people mazimum. So, let`s say I wanted to hide "Peter," and I pay 500 or 1000 points to do so. If Peter has already been hidden by 5 people then I would get a reply telling me that the purchase can not be executed because he is already "hidden" by 5 people.

    Also, the "hide" purchase could probably be purchased for different time duration. Say, 500 points for 3 months before it expires. 1000 points for 5 months. 2000 points for one year.

    And for those who would hate to be hidden, they would have the right to purchase "hide" insurance which would prevent them from being hidden. But, as we know in the real world, insurance is expensive. A system of payments per month, quarter, year could be installed.

    And, for those who didn`t buy insurance, but wants to overide someone`s hide to have it canceled, an "overide" option could be purchased -- this would be more expensive than the person`s "hide" that was bought.

    Perhaps the moderators et al would give this more serious thought, and not dismiss it too lightly ..... ?
    Excellent and innovative suggestion. A final solution indeed!
    ジョン
    I am sure it could be improved, but I think having a small economy of things to purchase to help smooth out the bumps between people who are offended by opinions, ideas, and styles, could help make the forum more enjoyable to others who are listening in. Until now, all responsibility is on the shoulder of the audience of the posts, and they are the ones who must exercise the responsibility to put someone on the "ignore" list. However, many people just do not have the discipline or they have too much curiosity to take that step. Why not give some power to the creator of the thread and post and make the rep as currency for members here.

    People wanting to have currency to spend it could cause some behaviour modification. After all, if they don`t get any money, they are the poor of the forum and the only thing they would have would just be the traditional "ignore" button, but that poor status of theirs would be due to them not being awarded rep just because they have not been helpful by posting or creating threads in a style that move people to give them rep.

    I really do think having an economy where the rep is earned as money to purchase some things is what would spark a lot more participation.

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    Smile We agree at last ....

    I agree. Your comments and additional suggestions make much sense and are well founded. (Although I must confess ... I couldn't be sure wether you were being serious or sarcastic .....)

    I don't think that the coding required would actually be that complex ... but i do have one concern. In choosing just whom one wanted to hide .... it's quite possible that one would be presented with a dialogue box containing 17,066 names .... just a thought ... but what the heck!

    Other than that .... let's go for it !

    (It's you're idea ... I'll let you do the negotiating and take the kudos ... my treat ... but I will back you up ....!)

    ばんざい!

    ジョン

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sensuikan San
    Stop! .......Everybody!
    In fact, SVF has a most wonderful idea here!
    I endorse it; and endorse it wholeheartedly.
    Just stop and think ... if you wish to write all sorts of cr*p about somebody and you don't want them to read it ..... just “hide” them! If you want to write all sorts of cr*p and not receive a response of any kind from a particular individual .... “hide” them!
    It's the final solution to a problem that all fora face!
    Just stop and think about it! The ramifications are awesome! And I have no problem with earning the rights to exercise this “power” either.
    (The only problem I can think of is ...... what happens if everyone chose to “hide” .... the same poster ....... ? How unfortunate for them that would be .....! But, I digress ....)
    Perhaps the moderators et al would give this more serious thought, and not dismiss it too lightly ..... ?
    Excellent and innovative suggestion. A final solution indeed!
    ジョン
    The idea has it's merits--but ultimately I think it defeats the purpose of a public forum.

    If you want to communiate or discuss something with only a select group, you should use PM's or e-mail. Though perhaps expanding the PM system or allowing special rooms in chat to facilitate this could be a good idea.

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    Nothing about the suggestion refers to making so you are speaking to just a "select" group. Hundreds of people may be lurking in on discussions at any given point. Making it so that one particular person is always offended by what you say on a topic or your style, is just courteous and shielding him from what he is sensitive to.

    I also clearly said that there could be some definite controls on this so that a person cannot "hide" ten, twenty, or even thirty people. It would be costly and a limit on "time" and "number" would make it so that in no way could it be abused.

    A public forum is great. But, we have seen here that some just cannot handle opinions and styles without them trying to shut the discussion down because they don`t conform to what they or their clique feels like is the way things should be put forth -- in effect, not wanting everyone to have their own style.

    ----------------------------------------------------
    *I would suggest that some joining this thread at this spot, go up about 5 or 6 posts and read the innitial suggestion and the ones following it by me.

  18. #68
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    Personally I don't like the idea of a "hide" system, but the idea of using rep points as some kind of "cash" seems interesting to me indeed!

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    Thomas & Co. made this forum the way it is and I don't think it's anyone's place to come in and so strongly suggest making dramatic changes. Of course, Thomas & Co. have the right to say no, but I, myself, would never even consider suggesting to make any major changes, because I would(and do) feel it is upon myself(and no one else) to behave.
    My impression has also always been that Thomas himself doesn't even fully support the rep system (or at least the way it has evolved) which makes this entire discussion and round of suggestions a bit absurd. On a side note, it would be wonderful if he (and his soothing presense could be around more actively ! Hopefully that will start to change with the splitting of the servers and a strategy for resolving some of these issues will become a little clearer.

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    I have a question about the ignore list. Will people know that you blocked them?

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    No, they won't.

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    Thank you very much, Glenn! ^_^

  23. #73
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    With all due respect to all the comments so far regarding the idea of having a "hide" feature I would like to add my comments to this.

    Firstly I think that the majority of people posting here are adults, and to that should be able to control their thoughts feelings and emotions regarding what they write on an open message board such as this. Moderators are on hand to "moderate" the discussions and imho are doing an admirable job.

    I'm sorry but even with all the comments made so far about this proposal I for one think that it is in effect rather childish. "I don't like that he or she can read what I am writing even though I have them on ignore" "If you can't play my way I am going to take my toys home" kind of response.

    If a poster feels that strongly about having one person or another not reading their posts then they should consider the way they are posting their material that provokes such a response. ****** here are dealt with rather quickly so that should not be a concern. Just because one is selfish about how others respond to them is, once again imho, childish.

    "You can please some of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time" (or something like that) comes to mind.

    If one is so overly sensitive to the point that they don't want others reading and responding to their posts, then they should consider if a forum like this is the place for them to be discussing diversive or argumentative issues. One of the purposes of an open forum such as this is to allow people, within reason, to state their feelings, opinions, thoughts and beliefs about various topics. You defeat the purpose of a board such as this and end up creating cliques of people that view like issues in the same way. You become or create a "cult" of like-minded people and end up being narrow minded and NOT open to others opinions, like them or not.

    I will say this, if and when this proposed feature becomes a "fact", (which I sincerely hope doesnt) it will be the LAST time I EVER post here. I may be a "newbie" to many and thereby my comments will be dismissed out of hand yet I feel that to in effect add a "censorship" type of function to be placed into effect defeats the freedom that one has to post or not post here.

  24. #74
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    While svf has strong views, some that I may agree with and others that I don't I find fault with his logic in this proposal about a hide function.

    This command would let us list who we don`t want our posts to be viewed by. That way, those who are known to be too sensitive or antagonistic whenever a new post or thread is written on a certain topic, can be kept from becomng insulted or offended because of their sensitivities to a topic by preventing them from viewing it. I guess that would be kind of like empowering members limited powers of banning certain people just from viewing what they have to say on something.
    This is a form of censorship wouldn't you agree? By advocating a move such as this you would control your audience, no matter how altruistic the motives may be. How does one make a decision on whether or not a person is going to be offended? If you know that "someone" is going to be offended by your post(s) why make the post in the first place?

    The purpose of the "hide" would not be to protect yourself from a reply from someone (though it could be used that way), the purpose would be to protect someone from constantly being "offended" by what you say based on their sensitivity for a topic that you have come to learn of. It could be seen as being courteous, -- such as when you are at a party, and you wish to talk about a topic you know someone else in the room is sensitive about, you lower your voice to talk about it to the person next to you, or you move into another room with the one you are talking with -- out of earshot from the one who is sensitive to the topic at hand, or perhaps the way you talk about it.

    You are repeating yourself here about being courteous. If that is the case then you as the poster have the responsibility to write your posts in such a manner as not to offend the reader. You take away a readers opportunity to read what you have written and you also will run the risk of comments being placed in response to your threads that others are hidden from and then having the hidden person respond to those comments. Thereby again running the risks of having a thread shot to heck and pulled off topic in a desire to "protect" a person from being offended from your posts. You would also offend more people when you place them on "hide" because then they would also only be able to participate in a portion of a thread, it would end up being similar to only hearing a part of a conversation and not in its entirety.

    Then to take that to the next logical step, to prevent miscommunication, misunderstanding and topics being pulled off thread you would have to limit access to entire threads. Because you dont want people participating in only half of a conversation now would you? The next logical conclusion would be to have to make the obvious request that people be banned or hidden from topics or threads that YOU deemed inapropriate out of concerns for their feelings. Do you follow where this is going to?

    Nothing about the suggestion refers to making so you are speaking to just a "select" group. Hundreds of people may be lurking in on discussions at any given point. Making it so that one particular person is always offended by what you say on a topic or your style, is just courteous and shielding him from what he is sensitive to.

    I also clearly said that there could be some definite controls on this so that a person cannot "hide" ten, twenty, or even thirty people. It would be costly and a limit on "time" and "number" would make it so that in no way could it be abused.

    A public forum is great. But, we have seen here that some just cannot handle opinions and styles without them trying to shut the discussion down because they don`t conform to what they or their clique feels like is the way things should be put forth -- in effect, not wanting everyone to have their own style.
    Whether it be one person or 100 to in effect "ban" a person from a topic for whatever reason is censoring that persons rights as a member here. From this proposal you end up making this board into a back scratching club where members would end up fighting for "rep" points to hide people that they didn't like. I shut off my reputation points because of the fact that I am not posting here for my ego, nor to ask for people to add to my reputation. I am who I am, whether or not you agree with me is your choice, just as I have the choice to agree with you or not.

    SVF you have strong opinions on topics that bring out a variety of opinions from various members. In this case I have a strong opinion against this proposal and hope that it never takes effect. In any way shape or form. Like I wrote in my previous post if it does take effect that will be the last day that I post here ever.

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    If it is an open forum and you find a person's conduct offensive, should you not be allowed to comment on that? If you want to debate an idea that another has brought up, isn't that what this forum is about? I believe the moderators have been doing their job in keeping the discussions flowing and civil. I welcome people who disagree with me to post their opposition, to read and scrutinize and test. It is one way to learn new things about people and myself and to help me clarify my own opinions, thinking and logic. Truth in the absolute should thrive under such review.

    My problems with SVF have nothing to do with his opinions and everything to do with conduct that I consider not only arrogance and ********, but offensive, intolerant, and bigoted. (At least they were back in January and in the middle of March when I wasn't ignoring him. I couldn't tell you anything specific now.) I don't have a problem expressing this and I would like to have the opportunity at some time to directly address these matters. I understand these arguments bothered others, but my only complaints were about specific statements on specific points. However at this time I am reluctantly accepting the restrictions placed upon me and on this matter and I am informed that things do seem quieter and more civil. People seem to be glad to see this mess gone.

    I'm all in favor of giving the moderators certain powers to control flaming and ********. (Limited blocking seems a little off-- warn them and ask them to ignore the offender as I have been warned, and if they don't comply, ban them outright.) I am also of the opinion that when the lunch ladies ask you to play nice, you listen or get benched at recess. There is a point where we must allow the judgement of those in charge to take precedence for the purpose of order.
    Last edited by No-name; 27-04-06 at 20:39.

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