Iraq War -- Illegal? Legal?

Should the Iraq war be considered legally justified?

  • yes

    Votes: 17 22.7%
  • no

    Votes: 58 77.3%

  • Total voters
    75
I've heard rumors about there being secret group who decides things about USA, like, "there should be a war now", "yeah, it'd do the economy good, guns can be sold and it would get the army to do something".

also there was supposed to be a group that only if you're a member, you can get to be president. would explain a lot, seeing bush.
http://gprime.net/video.php/presidentialspeechalist
brilliance
 
Global Political Power Group

Yakutatuza... I happen to agree with you.

60% of the world's fossil fuel consumption is the United States, though that percentage is dropping.

Cut the oil? Western economies would collapse, followed by Eastern economies.

Therefore, you are a Western political executive, and your primary interest is survival. Forget rules, forget laws, forget civil nicities... your primary goal is for your country to survive. Physically, then financially. Period.

Compound that with other countries, say, second-tier countries, vowing to physically destroy other countries, depending on their own political agendas. No rational reason, but overwhelming greed.

Compound these disruptive elements with the money elites in other countries who suppress all opposition amongst their own people, and hire mercenary armies to protect themselves against their own countrymen, so THEY CAN SURVIVE, at all costs. We are not talking millionaires here, we are talking MINIMUM billionaires, if not trillionare-ruling interests. And yes, periodic "trip-wire wars" are used to minimize the death and destruction... i.e., Saddam could have killed another million people, he does not give a damn, he is oblivious to the suffering he caused, to the Million+ Iranian dead, to the Million + Iraqi dead while he was in power. Meaningless numbers.

So on one side you have a power group getting fabulously rich, but in truth, allowing poor slobs like myself and my family to eek out a living, paycheck to paycheck.

In short, the net-net of the power game, allows myself and my family to have a life, which I enjoy. Call it "freedom", call it "socialism", call it anything you want. I am alive, generally content. Thank you.

Now, the world that I described... do you love it as best you can, or do you hate it? Glass half empty, or glass half full?

Power groups exist. Money groups exist. Oil mafias exist. I say we have to love it as best we can, and try to make it better, as best we can.

With one slight asterisk... America should NOT DECIDE what is best for YOU, or for the whole world. America should decide what is best for America, and I think we realize that. Period. As best we possibly can, we should not attempt to rebuild whole cultures, or whole societies.

That is my simple-minded opinion, and yes, I am a simple-minded person. Love, Peace, Harmony, Understanding to all people.

Your thoughts?

Ed Z
 
Europe and America are natural enemies, as looked on it in a strategical way.

America tries to get European countries crossing swords with each other.
The British did that for years and years too.

Europeans want stability in Europe, and the Americans and Brits are doing the opposite. That's what is going on nowadays.
 
Europe and America are natural enemies, as looked on it in a strategical way.

America tries to get European countries crossing swords with each other.
The British did that for years and years too.

Europeans want stability in Europe, and the Americans and Brits are doing the opposite. That's what is going on nowadays.

no comment
 
It was legal because the sadam hussain regeime made it legal, he needed to be taken from power. The resulting unrest was between religious nutcasses in Iraq. I fully support the war, and I'm glad it's a democracy now, one of the few in the region.
 
this one is a small clue what US is doing there.

Iraq airlines and Boeing of US reached an agreement for Boeing 737 and Boeing 787 (and 15 more with option) the leading time is 2019- 31.03.2008

Iraq airlines is shut down - 31.05.2010
 
Barbarian, try this. Let's say US after WW2 completely controls Germany and Japan, and from your previous posts we know that it totally controls Turkey too. Today Germany and Japan are 4 trillion economies each. It means that they produce a lot of shit and people are well off. Let's say that it should be a difficult thing for mighty and controlling USA to get 10% of their money. Like a good old fashion feudal tax of 10% on vassals. That gives US 800 billion dollars income a year.
Now how big is Iraq's economy? 50 billion maybe a year? How much US had spent for war in Iraq, 1 trillion? It takes 20 years of stealing ALL Iraqi's money to just brake even! What kind of investment is this??? It doesn’t make sense.
It's so much easier to make money on rich countries than the poor once. And as some here believe US controls half of the world, why the heck, being rich already, they would dick around fighting and dieing in Iraq and Afghanistan, and destroying their "good" image and reputation for poor of the poor of the world??? Not much money to be made their, lol, just pain and aggravation.
If you want to convince me that US is in Iraq and Afghanistan for the money, then show me the money. Right now money and math shows me otherwise.

About Boeing plain deals. You'd probably agree that the best business deals are when the business/buying is constant and repetitive. Airline stays profitable and keeps buying plains for years to come, plain manufacturers keep producing and producing for years. That's the best deal for any company including Boeing.
Did Iraq Air paid for plains in advance to Boeing, and then went bankrupt? Or Boeing invested in new production but didn't get anything because Iraq Air is gone? Do you know how the money went?
 
It was legal because the sadam hussain regeime made it legal, he needed to be taken from power. The resulting unrest was between religious nutcasses in Iraq. I fully support the war, and I'm glad it's a democracy now, one of the few in the region.

Democracy? Don't make me laugh. It seems you don't have a clue about what democracy is.

America is governed by a network of companies and military, we call the military industrial complex. There are several US presidents who warned for this to happen.

Want names? Eisenhower was the last president that warned for it.

Clinton managed to get American finance back to normal, but the Bush government turned American budget deficit to an all time disaster.
And why? Several American companies are getting richer and richer every day at the cost of American taxpayers.
Obama is there to close the eyes of the John Doe Americans.

I reckon Obama is already handcuffed by the system too.

Another fact.. France always had an anti American political course.
And what do we see now? The Carlyle company (Bush) bought the French Newspaper Le Figaro some years ago. A right wing newspaper.
French media were influenced by American capitalists..
Sarkozy became president of France. And his family has interests in the American oil industry.

The same goes for the former Dutch prime minister Jan Peter Balkenende, his brother has also a leading role in American oil industry.

The Dutch Royal family has also ties with the Shell company.
And Prince Bernard, was the first chairman of the Bilderberg secret meetings.

Nowadays we see a complete idiot like Geert Wilders getting a lot of attention from the BOUGHT Dutch media. No surprise that Geert Wilders is financed by a ultra conservative American group.
:mad:
 
Barbarian, try this. Let's say US after WW2 completely controls Germany and Japan, and from your previous posts we know that it totally controls Turkey too. Today Germany and Japan are 4 trillion economies each. It means that they produce a lot of shit and people are well off. Let's say that it should be a difficult thing for mighty and controlling USA to get 10% of their money. Like a good old fashion feudal tax of 10% on vassals. That gives US 800 billion dollars income a year.
Now how big is Iraq's economy? 50 billion maybe a year? How much US had spent for war in Iraq, 1 trillion? It takes 20 years of stealing ALL Iraqi's money to just brake even! What kind of investment is this??? It doesn’t make sense.
It's so much easier to make money on rich countries than the poor once. And as some here believe US controls half of the world, why the heck, being rich already, they would dick around fighting and dieing in Iraq and Afghanistan, and destroying their "good" image and reputation for poor of the poor of the world??? Not much money to be made their, lol, just pain and aggravation.
If you want to convince me that US is in Iraq and Afghanistan for the money, then show me the money. Right now money and math shows me otherwise.

About Boeing plain deals. You'd probably agree that the best business deals are when the business/buying is constant and repetitive. Airline stays profitable and keeps buying plains for years to come, plain manufacturers keep producing and producing for years. That's the best deal for any company including Boeing.
Did Iraq Air paid for plains in advance to Boeing, and then went bankrupt? Or Boeing invested in new production but didn't get anything because Iraq Air is gone? Do you know how the money went?
i hope my english will be enough to answer for this wonderfull question.

before beginning to answer i must say i like america compared to other superpowers in history and superpower candidates in present day. but still, if you are superpower, you must be evil.

i dont think US control germany economically. in contrast germany has economical power but needs political and armed force to be leading country against US dominance in the world. so they support EU to rach their aim. Why do you think they feed greece, portugal etc. to go to heaven?

After WW2 japan is addicted to US, because japan is export addicted, they need market. and the last crisis shows that US is the main market and no other country can replace them at the moment. after china replace their position in US market, i believe, japan will leave the game.

so the main question: why should US economy need Iraq? the answer: US in iraq because he wants the control of energy sources.

what can america sell? car? steel? washing machine? ... i dont think they can sell anything industrial. they can sell hamburger, movie, shoe (made in taiwan)

US spend lots of money on army to control the world they need money for this power, they have capital giants they need to feed them. since, those giants selects presidents each 6 years.

US must sell weapon (see turkey, greece, iraq, egypt etc.), control narcotic market (see afghanaistan, pakistan), and dollar (see local and global crisis). dollar is very funny "stuff" you can print whenever you want but still works. and you can force other goverments to buy it (see turkey, ukraine and many more)

lebrok, US is power, and this power is lack of real economy. it must sell weapon and dollar. any country who says no must be killed (see iran and venezuela soon). at the moment most of the middle east (or petrol and energy) is under the control of US, US wants turkey to be the leading country of region which will be under the control of US. they want to limit Russian dominance in caucasia by controlling, azerbeijan, ukraine, georgia. these regions are the energy source of the world. and EU limits themselves in the continent by leaving the control in these regions to US.

PS. the boeing deal with iraq was for 5 bill dollar and deserves what boeing invested on politicians in washington on the middle of crisis.
 

The fighting for Iraq only lasted the first few months, the next years of chaos was caused by sectarian violence between sunni, shia, kurdish groups, and al-qaeda. To blame america for these lunatics actions is unjust. If they went through with their original plans to divide iraq three ways; sunni, shia, kurdish, things wouldn't have dragged along. This didn't go through because Turkey adn Iran fear of Kurdish seperatism and pressured america not to do it. Not to meantion Turkey made matter worse by bombing northern iraq.
 
Democracy? Don't make me laugh. It seems you don't have a clue about what democracy is.

America is governed by a network of companies and military, we call the military industrial complex. There are several US presidents who warned for this to happen.

Want names? Eisenhower was the last president that warned for it.

Clinton managed to get American finance back to normal, but the Bush government turned American budget deficit to an all time disaster.
And why? Several American companies are getting richer and richer every day at the cost of American taxpayers.
Obama is there to close the eyes of the John Doe Americans.

I reckon Obama is already handcuffed by the system too.

Another fact.. France always had an anti American political course.
And what do we see now? The Carlyle company (Bush) bought the French Newspaper Le Figaro some years ago. A right wing newspaper.
French media were influenced by American capitalists..
Sarkozy became president of France. And his family has interests in the American oil industry.

The same goes for the former Dutch prime minister Jan Peter Balkenende, his brother has also a leading role in American oil industry.

The Dutch Royal family has also ties with the Shell company.
And Prince Bernard, was the first chairman of the Bilderberg secret meetings.

Nowadays we see a complete idiot like Geert Wilders getting a lot of attention from the BOUGHT Dutch media. No surprise that Geert Wilders is financed by a ultra conservative American group.
:mad:

You have a discourse with america because of certain money transactions which is fine, I would agree with you on the points you have made. But to say that Iraq is not more democratic now than when Saddam hussain was in power would be false. Oil was one of the reasons they entered Iraq, but not to "steal" it but to control when it goes. Having such a large monopoly of oil only nexted to the saudis was a national security intrest of america.

People like to demonize america because they are a world power, but I would be more scared if china or Russia was more powerful than america, being corrupt anti-human right countries. The EU could be a world player but it needs to implement stricter laws so countries like Greece, ireland, eastern european countires can't just do the bare minimum.
 
The fighting for Iraq only lasted the first few months, the next years of chaos was caused by sectarian violence between sunni, shia, kurdish groups, and al-qaeda. To blame america for these lunatics actions is unjust. If they went through with their original plans to divide iraq three ways; sunni, shia, kurdish, things wouldn't have dragged along. QUOTE]

Good point. US won war with Germany and Japan and they rebuilt very quickly to be prosperous countries. Iraq is a mess because of internal and external factions fighting there, and not because US wants to keep Iraq a mess.

US already spent a trillion dollars in Iraq, do you guys know how much oil you can buy for this money? Probably all Iraqi oil. So why would you go to the war instead of just buying? Same money and fewer people killed, right?
The problem was the stability of prices and uninterrupted supply of oil, and Saddam that already caused two wars in the region. Saddam was sadistic and cruel dictator, but this reason was just an icing on the cake, when it came to getting rid of him.

Barbarian, since WW2 US have army inside Germany and Japan, don't you think they would be the top candidates to control and benefit of them? hey are rich countries and this is where US could make the most bucks, right? Again why they would spend trillions to control poor countries, to loose money? Where is the sense of it. They could make a trillion a year taxing just Germany and Japan.

Please show me where is the money in it. Money makes most of the sense of most situations in politics and economy. You said that US is good in printing dollars and world wants it. Why US would bother spending trillions and sacrificing lives, if they could just buy oil and gold etc, right? Wouldn't you take the easy way?
 
People like to demonize america because they are a world power, but I would be more scared if china or Russia was more powerful than america, being corrupt anti-human right countries. The EU could be a world player but it needs to implement stricter laws so countries like Greece, ireland, eastern european countires can't just do the bare minimum.

Good point again. World always needed and will need a policeman. Today's world is lucky that US is in this role. If it was Communist Russia or China, you wouldn't even had a chance to express a free thoughts on this forum, period.
Take a note that US won the cold war, and now Russia and China are following the successful pattern, especially in economy.
 
Good point again. World always needed and will need a policeman. Today's world is lucky that US is in this role. If it was Communist Russia or China, you wouldn't even had a chance to express a free thoughts on this forum, period.
Take a note that US won the cold war, and now Russia and China are following the successful pattern, especially in economy.

I wouldn't have believed you if you had told me this a few years ago. But as years have passed by, I got older and made a lot of thoughts, this is the sad truth I have to agree upon.
 
The fighting for Iraq only lasted the first few months, the next years of chaos was caused by sectarian violence between sunni, shia, kurdish groups, and al-qaeda. To blame america for these lunatics actions is unjust. If they went through with their original plans to divide iraq three ways; sunni, shia, kurdish, things wouldn't have dragged along. This didn't go through because Turkey adn Iran fear of Kurdish seperatism and pressured america not to do it. Not to meantion Turkey made matter worse by bombing northern iraq.
if it was finished in few months why US is in Iraq for 7,5 years?
why US doesnt control the kurdish terrorists in north iraq?
where is the global terrorists that US came for?
Where is the nuclear weapons US talked about?
Why there was no internal ethnic problems before US invasion?
would you like US come to your country to bring democracy?
Do you think US afraid of Iran and Turkey to realize their plan?
 
The fighting for Iraq only lasted the first few months, the next years of chaos was caused by sectarian violence between sunni, shia, kurdish groups, and al-qaeda. To blame america for these lunatics actions is unjust. If they went through with their original plans to divide iraq three ways; sunni, shia, kurdish, things wouldn't have dragged along. QUOTE]

Good point. US won war with Germany and Japan and they rebuilt very quickly to be prosperous countries. Iraq is a mess because of internal and external factions fighting there, and not because US wants to keep Iraq a mess.

US already spent a trillion dollars in Iraq, do you guys know how much oil you can buy for this money? Probably all Iraqi oil. So why would you go to the war instead of just buying? Same money and fewer people killed, right?
The problem was the stability of prices and uninterrupted supply of oil, and Saddam that already caused two wars in the region. Saddam was sadistic and cruel dictator, but this reason was just an icing on the cake, when it came to getting rid of him.

Barbarian, since WW2 US have army inside Germany and Japan, don't you think they would be the top candidates to control and benefit of them? hey are rich countries and this is where US could make the most bucks, right? Again why they would spend trillions to control poor countries, to loose money? Where is the sense of it. They could make a trillion a year taxing just Germany and Japan.

Please show me where is the money in it. Money makes most of the sense of most situations in politics and economy. You said that US is good in printing dollars and world wants it. Why US would bother spending trillions and sacrificing lives, if they could just buy oil and gold etc, right? Wouldn't you take the easy way?

lebrok,
US is controlled by companies, US goverment spent this money to their own companies. they took the money from their people and from ıraq oil and gave it to their companies.

The money on earth comes from industry or resources. US cannot sell their products because of competition issues. they prefer to sell their dollar, weapon and arrest of others goods.

Dollar is a magic, if nobody believes it disappears. saddam was saying to sell their oil with Euro. So, US showed everybody that he is the boss. And now they want to create a country that will obey their rule. just like GB created a country called kuwait that was never existed before.

About germany and japan issue: even US cannot say them to give tax each year.they are global actors.
 
Hmm.. The problems in Iraq were caused by the British. They drew the map so several ethnic groups live in 1 country, like they did everywhere. Devide and rule.
So it's only logic to split Iraq in ethnic countries. Of course the Americans don't support that, because they love the Sunnies and the Sjias killing each other.
Just like they supported both Iraq and Iran with weapons when they were at war with each other. Big profit! :innocent:
 
Hmm.. The problems in Iraq were caused by the British. They drew the map so several ethnic groups live in 1 country, like they did everywhere. Devide and rule.
So it's only logic to split Iraq in ethnic countries. Of course the Americans don't support that, because they love the Sunnies and the Sjias killing each other.
Just like they supported both Iraq and Iran with weapons when they were at war with each other. Big profit! :innocent:

Yes, quite contrary to the Dutch! Whether is was South Africa, Suriname, Indonesia or elsewhere, they respected the local people and cultures, drew the map according to the local ethnic groups, let them speak their language, didn't impose their language and culture on others, made locals to colonial rulers and never used violence. Of course they came only in peace and without any profit intention... :useless:

Your paranoid hatred towards the English speaking world is getting ridiculous!
 
[...]
i dont think US control germany economically. in contrast germany has economical power but needs political and armed force to be leading country against US dominance in the world. so they support EU to rach their aim. Why do you think they feed greece, portugal etc. to go to heaven?
[...]

So you think that we (Germans) want to overtake the US as a superpower? Infiltrating politically and economically into all other European countries for to raise a giant army in the end that will withstand US troops?

Crazy and paranoid!
 

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