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View Poll Results: Should the Iraq war be considered legally justified?

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Thread: Iraq War -- Illegal? Legal?

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbarian View Post
    i dont think eu care about genocide too much. may be cyprus can be a good reason. because it has a political meaning, while armenia stuff is history. i believe eu care about economy, political stability or toughness and culturel commons which are disadvantages for turkey.

    additionally, turkey cannot share its hegemony inside the country which is a characteristic barrier for turkey, if eu would even let in turkey in to the community.
    I think for the EU their biggest concerns would be the fact that Turkey is a muslim country and it is right next to Iran.

    Nobody cares about genocides except there is petrol, look at the Bosnian war, the Rwanda Genocide, perfect examples! Sad really!



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  2. #102
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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Illegal Aggression. Send Bush and Cheney to The Hague for war crimes, crimes against humanity and severe human rights violations, in particular torture. Same applies to others involved in the joint criminal enterprise, that is, Rumsfeld, Blair, Geoff Hoon et cetera.

  3. #103
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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Illegal agression!

    NATO is a defense treaty between the USA, Canada and a lot of European countries.
    It's a defense treaty! Not an offensive one!

    Some leaders like Bush and Blair abused the treaty by portraying an idiotic attack on the WTC and the Pentagon as an attack on the USA. Until today we still don't have the answers how that could happen!

    You don't believe it!
    Egyptians and Saudies walking across the USA, study to fly a crop duster, and then know how to fly a Boeing?
    Even in a bad C movie, they wouldn't come up with such a scenario. Too bloody ridiculous!

    I know however, that some high ranking American military brass was pissed because Saddam Hussein burnt a lot of oil wells.
    That was the reason why Dubya had to go for it. An order from his father.
    And he did it so clumsy that he will be the dumbest jackass in history.

  4. #104
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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    I agree, it was an unprovoked attack by the "coalition of the willing" on a sovereign state, therefore illegal. Imo, the invasion of Afghanistan was also illegal.

    Although, I don't think oil was the reason, just a fortunate conincidence that it is there. The main reason for both invasions was to isolate Iran.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antigone View Post
    I agree, it was an unprovoked attack by the "coalition of the willing" on a sovereign state, therefore illegal. Imo, the invasion of Afghanistan was also illegal.

    Although, I don't think oil was the reason, just a fortunate conincidence that it is there. The main reason for both invasions was to isolate Iran.
    hmmm interesting,

    so they have army in both east and west of persia, afganistn and iraque, and offcourse the naval forces in India ocean,
    iran claims of a nuclear projects, hmmm.

    comparing with modern Syria and Libya, where civil wars are in loose, but not an action is going on......

  6. #106
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    It's a simple strategic plan. USA wants a stronghold in the Middle East.
    Think of any bizarre excuse. WHAMMM!

    That's what happened.
    I guess their are American basis in Iraq now, stuffed with sensors and weapons to keep the fuzzy wuzzies out.
    Some giant airbase. Always comes in handy for the CIA.

    The same works for Afghanistan.
    Pay some local warlord, and you can set up the same.
    Hmm.. Only the logistics.. Tough nut to crack..
    Hmm.. Let's see.. Do we have friends there?
    ....... Errr.. No Mr. President...

    Ok, let's talk with the Taliban...

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by iapetoc View Post
    hmmm interesting,

    so they have army in both east and west of persia, afganistn and iraque, and offcourse the naval forces in India ocean,
    iran claims of a nuclear projects, hmmm.......
    Yes, it explains why Iran is going nuclear, understandably (and quite rightly) they are feeling very threatened right now. And the explanation that Iran is going to "wipe Israel off the map" is typical US fear mongering and BS, the same tactic was used when it was alleged that Saddam could strike Europe in 45mins.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miss_apollo7 View Post
    In my opinion, it was illegal because the UN did not accept it and approve of it...

    I think Kofi Annan is a wise man...
    Ok- then- what about the bombing of Yugoslavia? Wasn't supported in UN and- will ever somebody end up in the War Criminal Court in Den Haag for that?

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sally_Hawn View Post
    I didn't vote in this poll because I am not sure whether this war is legal or not, but I am happy for the Iraqi people today. They are allowed to vote for their own government! Oversea Iraqis can have a say too. This morning there're over a thousand Iraqis in Ontario have already casted their vote in the ballots.
    Oh, my naive and innocent countryman! ...
    Today... After over a million deaths in Iraq...
    The other day I saw a car here in Toronto with NY plates and the sticker on it:

    "Be good to America or we'll bring democracy to your country"...

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reinaert View Post
    The Dutch didn't have such a fascist regime like the British.
    In fact, the Dutch didn't have colonies.
    What you mention are parts of the same Kingdom.
    The Dutch couldn't even settle in the overseas areas.

    Only if they got a job offered by the VOC or WIC.

    And, a lot of Germans worked for the VOC too..
    So.. Pot kettle black..

    The Dutch from the beginning had only a few trading posts, a fortress and some farming for supplying the ships. That was the case in Kaapstad (South Africa) and Batavia (Djakarta Indonesia).

    While the Dutch traded and bargained with the local aristocracy, the British started to conquer entire areas for mining purposes.
    Gold, diamonds, oil.

    Of course the Dutch started to follow the same policy like the British, but that was after 1830.

    Apartheid is a Dutch word, but it was brought to South Africa by the British.
    The British invented the concentration camps. Not the German Nazi's.
    Those camps were used to get the Dutch Boers under control by arresting them by the thousands.
    The same trick they used in Malaya to suppress left wing independence fighters after ww2.

    And then we have the numerous other countries where the British rampaged.

    And I don't hate them.
    I just don't like they steal, and always talk like they are Santaclaus.

    The British and Americans would be more sympathetic to me if they just admitted they were assholes.

    You can be the strongest nation in the world, but stop whining about good intentions. Is that so difficult?

    BTW..
    The Dutch even respected the local languages in Indonesia.
    The Dutch learned to speak Indonesian.

    And another thing.. Sukarno, the first President of Indonesia, studied in The Netherlands, and was a very good lawyer. He was a bright man, I consider him in the same group of influential people like Mahatma Gandhi and Nelson Mandela.
    My dear friend,
    Dutch invented first concentration camps in the world (in South Africa)...
    You should speak with some of the First Nations here in Canada- Dutch were the ones who were twisting the testicles of young First Nation's boys in order to prevent their "multiplying"...
    Who was worse in the past- Dutch or British- it's a dead race...

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by seemann View Post
    My dear friend,
    Dutch invented first concentration camps in the world (in South Africa)...
    You should speak with some of the First Nations here in Canada- Dutch were the ones who were twisting the testicles of young First Nation's boys in order to prevent their "multiplying"...
    Who was worse in the past- Dutch or British- it's a dead race...
    That is BS!

    The British invented those concentration camps in South Africa, because they couldn't defeat the Boers!
    So they took their women and children and put them in concentration camps.

    You simply fall for English propaganda.

    And screwing the balls of young American natives?
    It's ridiculous! The Dutch nearly survived.
    In fact the Dutch adventure in America was a plain disaster!

    You simply fall for English propaganda.

    Another account of Canek?

  12. #112
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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Something that I didn't see pointed out upon skimming this thread (I could have missed it): the Iraq War was essentially illegal under the United States' own laws. The idea that the war was commenced by unconstitutional means was basically rejected by the US First Court of Appeals in Doe vs. Bush, although they didn't actually rule, they just rejected the authority of the judiciary to address the case because Congress and the President weren't actually in disagreement. I think that under an actual (just and fair) trial of the commencement of the Iraq War would prove it to be illegal.

    The precedent of requiring the Congress and not the President to declare preemptive war (as opposed to react to attacks, which is authorized to the President) was established as early as 1787 during the Madison Debates.

    Quote Originally Posted by James Madison
    Mr. BUTLER. The objections agst. the Legislature lie in great degree agst. the Senate. He was for vesting the power in the President, who will have all the requisite qualities, and will not make war but when the Nation will support it. Mr. MADISON and Mr. GERRY moved to insert "declare," striking out "make" war; leaving to the Executive the power to repel sudden attacks.
    Mr. SHARMAN thought it stood very well. The Executive shd. be able to repel and not to commence war. "Make" better than "declare" the latter narrowing the power too much.
    Mr. GERRY never expected to hear in a republic a motion to empower the Executive alone to declare war.
    Mr. ELSWORTH. there is a material difference between the cases of making war and making peace. It shd. be more easy to get out of war, than into it. War also is a simple and overt declaration. peace attended with intricate & secret negociations.
    Mr. MASON was agst. giving the power of war to the Executive, because not safely to be trusted with it; or to the Senate, because not so constructed as to be entitled to it. He was for clogging rather than facilitating war; but for facilitating peace. He preferred "declare" to "make."
    On the motion to insert declare-in place of make, it was agreed to. N. H. no. Mas. abst. Cont. no. Pa. ay. Del. ay. Md.
    ay. Va. ay. N. C. ay. S. C. ay. Geo. ay.
    Yet the only thing that the Congress passed with respect to the Iraq War was the Iraq Resolution, which was a resolution of support and encouragement for the President's actions, not a declaration of war. The President commenced the war without a Congressional declaration. That is illegal.

    The same thing happened for Afghanistan and Libya (except President Obama, not Bush, was the one who commenced war with Gaddafi). And Libya may be especially egregious, because it's not clear that the Congress would have declared war if Obama had requested it.

  13. #113
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    Some old noob drew first blood.

    The intervention in Iraq, Afghanistan and also Libya are illegal.

    The cynicism of the leaders is, to only operate against tyrants if the country has important assets.
    Syria has none but fruits, and so they let the people over there shot to pieces.

  14. #114
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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Completely ilegal!

  15. #115
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    What did america do poorly in the iraq war.

    we took done sadam a dictator who was oppressing his people and a threat to the world(does not matter if he did not have wepons of mass destruction)

    we tried to help everyday iraqis from terrorist who are constintley killing them.

    people make up myths we tried to take oil

    the media puts a negative idea of the Iraq war in our minds. God bless the brave american solder's who kicked Iraqi butt they did the right thing don't any of u dare criticize them. America was built on justice, equal rights(even though it was where not given to non whites for a while), and fair government. we where built to not make the mistakes of evil monarchs oin Europe and basically what all human leaders have been like.

    We attempted to safe the south Vietnamese from evil communist. We freakin destroyed the north veitmanese we had tougher and smarter soldiers. i get sick of it when media and movies make it seem like our soldiers lost the war our government lost the war. American soldeiers killed many more north veitmanese than they killed us we won nearly every major battle.

    I Think americas instict to help south veitnam was good but we could not invade because it would start world war 3. So what was the use of hoing in it is hard to watch inccoent people being conquered but sending in our army in my opinon would just cause more deaths including american deaths. If i was put in 1963 i would defintkey say the war is just but then i would realize we cant win because it would cause world war 3.

    the Vietnam war brought anti american feelings in our country and Europe which it should not have. now hippies lead our country and control or media it sickens me how biased they are. Before the Vietnam war Americans where much more patriotic and have u noticed america has gone down since the 60's most lil;ey because america became less patriotic and much more libearl. many socail changes in the 60's where good but some where extreme. i think america will come back and see the good and bad from the 60's and in the next decades come back as a more unified and powerful country.

    Hopfully Europe will back us up the next time we want to help the world. pretty soon there will be a iran war and i am pretty sure i will sign up for the army at that time if i am old enough. THe world need to realize the western world is are the bad guys anymore it is the muslim extremist who rule the muslim world, communist)including russia, gangs, african dictators.

    the good guys are europe(not counting russia) and America.

  16. #116
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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    There won't be war in Iran (except perhaps strategic bombings). There is no money for it in US budget, just big pile of debt.
    One or two trillion dollars are needed for a war, if the war is similar to Iraq's war.
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    There won't be war in Iran (except perhaps strategic bombings). There is no money for it in US budget, just big pile of debt.
    One or two trillion dollars are needed for a war, if the war is similar to Iraq's war.
    If Iran gets a nuke that is one of the worst things that can happen. They say they want to kill all jews u know they want to kill all Americans. Why do u think russia is helping them get a nuke i dont think russia is any better than the soviet union when it comes to american relations and saftey. We need to stop iran fro getting a nuke no matter what i say Europe should help us. There are some rich and strong militaries in Europe if they help us we can spread out the money issues. This is about the survival of humans we can not let Iran get nukes.

    Right now we are in a waore situation than in the cold war. Russia is defintley not a better ally they might lie and trade with us and stuff but their military is just as ready to blow us up as they where in the 1960's. U know that north korea is radical and say they will destroy america they are actulley speaking for China, Russia, and the Muslim world. China is north Korea big brother North Korea why do u think China trys to hack into our military systems yet Americans still see them as a okay country. Russia i think is in with them too and i am sure they cooruperate with the muslim world.

    the Comunist(including Russia) and the Muslims are planning to destroy the western world. They have no good reason to hate us maybe it is because our governments where made for justice and equal rights unlike their's. and all we try to do is help them. right now america is in the most dangerous situation but it seems most dont know it.

    we have a president making race issues with the whole zimmerman thing when there is absoultly no race issue with Zimmerman just people are accusing him of being raciest. Obama is a joke in my opinion i don't know that much about economics but when it comes down to a good guy he is a -5. Why the heck is he making a race issue it sickens me. Obama has a dark side that the media hides he really gets on my nerves.'

    people like Obama and our liberal media want us to think it is the western world that is the bad guy. They are trying to completely change the western world socially. We need to wake up and realize where not the bad guys it is the muslim world and communist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired View Post
    If Iran gets a nuke that is one of the worst things that can happen. They say they want to kill all jews u know they want to kill all Americans. Why do u think russia is helping them get a nuke i dont think russia is any better than the soviet union when it comes to american relations and saftey. We need to stop iran fro getting a nuke no matter what i say Europe should help us. There are some rich and strong militaries in Europe if they help us we can spread out the money issues. This is about the survival of humans we can not let Iran get nukes.
    North Korea got nukes and nobody did nothing. Now South Korea lives in nuclear shadow, and S Korea is a big friend of US.
    Besides, there is no money for war, and priority for US is to fix economy anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    North Korea got nukes and nobody did nothing. Now South Korea lives in nuclear shadow, and S Korea is a big friend of US.
    Besides, there is no money for war, and priority for US is to fix economy anyway.
    Iran is diff radical terrioist can get nukes form the Iranian government and they will bomb people. We know that Muslim governments in the mid east are friendly towards terriost when both of them want the same goal which is destroy america. We should have stopped north Korea in my opinion why let iran get a nuke that is terrible no matter what. We have the power and yes we do have the money and if Europe helps that would be even better we need to stop Iran. Hopfully isreal does if our government chooses not too.

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    The Iraqi government was complying with UN demands about stopping any work on developing nuclear weapons, and UN inspectors attested to their compliance. At a certain point, however, it became apparent that the US administration was only using compliance as an excuse to attack Iraq, and it was a mere fig leaf to cover Bush’s decisions to invade. Bush and his supporters have since made great efforts to shift blame to faulty US inteligence agencies, but they are only a scape goat. The true source of the unjust invasion was Bush and his top advisiors.

  21. #121
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    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacks

    I do not like war. I do not like unnecessary loss of life. You have to remember, that even the intelligence agencies thought there were WMD's. Of course the question is, why should a country pay for the actions of a group of terrorists.

  22. #122
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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Every war is illegal. The americans make it look legal

  23. #123
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    Depends on one's perspective.

    No more illegal than China's occupation and barbaric subjugation of Tibet.
    But of course China is a Communist nation, and it's far from hip and trendy for leftists to criticize them.
    Not a in thing to do on a college campus.

    Was the Turkish invasion of Cyprus and the occupation of the North illegal?
    Never hear a peep from the usual "human rights" advocates on this one, either...

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    3 out of 4 members found this post helpful.
    Imo, to say every war is illegal is an exaggeration.

    What about when one's country is attacked? Germany invaded country after country in the late thirties and early forties, with the expressed intention of conquering perhaps not only all of Europe but beyond? Was England wrong to declare war on Germany? Was America wrong to declare war on Germany?

    The Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor. They, like the Germans, wanted to expand their empire. In their case they wanted to conquer all of East and Southeast Asia and on into India if possible. Their biggest competitor for raw materials in the East was the U.S., and so they believed eventually the U.S. might get involved. Therefore, they bombed Hawaii where most of our Pacific fleet and aircraft were located. Was the U.S. wrong to declare war on Japan?

    What about wars for independence? Was the U.S., and Mexico and all the South American countries wrong to go to war against England and Spain. Were they wrong not to want to be ruled any longer by extremely distant countries who wanted only cheap raw materials from them and a place to dump their goods, and also taxed the hell out of them for doing absolutely nothing for them?


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

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    Illegal and never weapons of mass destruction

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