What do you think of homosexuality (and gay marriage) ?

[Revenant]

I've seen plenty of guys who have given up on women and decided to turn to men. If thats not choosing to be gay then what is?

Sounds more like they were bisexual to from the start.

There is a theory that says that very few people are purely gay or hetero, and that most are shades of grey inbetween. Most have a stronger leaning towards one side or the other.

 

[Kinsao]

Hmm yeah, I know some people that were gay from right early age, as children as described by Pachipro (I think it was :? ), like that. I also know other people who "changed" their orientation when they were older, in some cases quite old. Of course, it's possible to argue that maybe they were "really" gay or bi underneath it all in some deep area of their subconscious without realising it for many years... but in a lot of cases these people did have what appeared to be happy and satisfying relationships with the opposite sex (again, it's not possible to know if they were truly happy... but it's only possible to go from the evidence you can see :worried: ).

So I think some people have genetic predisposition, and other people are influenced by their environment, other people around them, and other external factors.

In the inverse, I also know a few people (men) who have what you might call characteristics that cause people to think they are gay, that's the "aura" (I suppose) that they have, but in real fact they are married or in long-term relationship with a woman (and with kids in some cases). Of course, I can't predict the future and something might change later in their life and they might say they were gay all along and just "repressed" or something (they are all over 40 years btw), but right now they seem happy in their lives. So it just goes to show, you can't tell anything about the way people feel..... :clueless:

 

[Ma Cherie]

One reason why I do see anything wrong with gay marriage is because it doesn't effect us. As far as I'm concerned this is more of a civil rights issue. There will a possibility that the gay marriage issue will be taken up to the supreme court. And the supreme court may rule the banning of gay marriage as unconstitutional or not. :?

But in all honesty, I feel the gay marriage issue is being used to distract Americans from other issues. These right-wing Jesus freaks Republicans are trying to get Americans to vote on the banning of gay marriage while they're sitting back and cutting back on things such as medicare, education, and other benefits, ect. Things that effect us.

Strike another blow for civil rights, people! :blush: :sorry:

 

[gohan93]

i dont get how gays can actually be gay. i mean how can you be attracted to another person of the same sex? if you were like that you could just look at yourself in a mirror. it is also a sin. :souka:

 

[Revenant]

How are you attracted to chicks? It's just something that they feel without actually making any sort of concious choice. No one wakes up in the morning and decides I will be straight today, or I will be gay.

I am straight, so I don't quite get it either, but that's what I reason anyways.

According to the Bible, it is a sin. A Christian would be hard put to to rationalize just how it actually goes against the law of love though, and the best one can do, is say, God didn't intend it to be that way.

But looking at such verses as, 'if you look at a woman lustfully, you have committed adultery with her in you heart', then it seems that all actions one does for the Lord must be sincere. In that can it be said that one cannot force someone to not be a homosexual, just as a Christian cannot be forced not to think lustfully over a woman. All must be actions the individual decides out of their own heart. 'I will not look at woman lustfully', or 'I will not look at the same sex lustfully'. All that is to say is that a gay should decide on their own, after having been won over to the faith, whether or not they have to give up their lifestyle.

Americans have religious freedom. It means that one can practice their own religion without fear of persecution. That is something all people in America should be grateful for. A Christian church can deny a homosexual couple marriage, and a Hindu place of worship can forbid any beef be brought in.

What were to happen were the Muslims to become the majority, and force all women in America to wear Burkahs? Not likely to happen, but it runs along the same lines of a Christian legislating their particular morals, such as homosexuals cannot be married.

A Christians primary goal, or should be primary goal, is to win people over to salvation. A Christian would best accomplish this by not saying, 'I disagree with your lifestyle, you are sinning', but rather by living a superb example of Christ's love, so that people are drawn to the faith.

Religious freedoms kept, gay rights given.

 

[Ma Cherie]

I see your point Revenant about how Christians are supposed to help give people salvation, but you may have noticed these days that most Christians aren't trying to save anyone. In fact, it seems to me that they're spending all their time condeming people for what they do. (i.e. Pat Robertson). I was so apalled at him when he said the reason for 9/11 was becasue of the way people lived in New York. Why add insult to injury? It's not enough for him that people died, he just HAD to say it was their fault. kashii:

I know this isn't all Christians, but lately some of them have been walking around believing that they're morally superior than everyone else. And they're probably just as "sinful" as the people they try call themselves condeming. And another thing, if Bush gets the chance to annuonce Christianity as the official national religion, he's only violating the First Amendment. I don't why some of these right-wing dolts keep saying this country was founded on Christianity, and it wasn't.


I'm sorry if is offensive, but this is how I feel. :bluush:

 

[Revenant]

I'm not Christian anymore, and that is what I reasoned during the time I was a Christian. I am attempting to reason with the above poster, who I guess is a Christian.

I agree that religious morals should never be legislated, and that a lot of the more vocal Christians are the ones that are also the less well thought out ones. That's as it seems to me anyways. I have attempted both in the time I was a Christian and the time since to reason on Chrisian grounds why their beliefs should never be made law, or homosexuals condemned.

 

[Kinsao]

There's no reason why you can't disagree with what someone does, without having to 'condemn' or even dislike the person themselves (I guess it's the old adage of "hate the sin, not the sinner" or some such). Let's just say that for example you disagree with homosexuality (I'm talking about the behaviour, not the orientation/inclination, which obviously no-one can help); well then, can you point to any person who always and consistently behaves in a way that you think is 'right'? Are all your best friends models of perfection? Do you always behave in a way you consider to be 'right' or 'moral'? My guess is No. You're never going to agree with everyone all of the time. Fact. I'm not a biblical sort of person, but I'll start looking at taking the plank out of my own eye before I start on about the dust in someone else's.

 

[Revenant]

I agree Kinsao, and perhaps my posts weren't articulate enough. I just think that saying gays are in the wrong is completely counterproductive to winning people over to the faith.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that a person is better won over to anything by seeing the benefits of a belief system, and not having our behavior being pointed out as being sinful, or what-have-you. Better to work from the positives than the negatives is all I'm trying to say.

 

[Kinsao]

Yup! Well said!

 

[Mars Man]

Well put things folks !! I've enjoyed the reading here. I'd like to interject that perhaps it is more important to make efforts to understand just what homosexuality is, and by doing such, probably taking the 'dislike' or the 'condemnation' out of the 'emotion box'. Yes, one can dislike or say that it is a 'sin', sure, far too many religionists do. . .because the authors of their religious data bases did not understand what it was--and yes, I have learned that there are more shades of mixtures there, just as there are shades of brain wiring differences, but that it is far more often there from birth. The religionists are as out of touch with reality on this point as they are most points that deal with the what is understood today, of the real world.

 

[Disembodied Spirit]

I voted for "I feel comfortable with gays and think gays should have the exact same rights as anybody"

Just because, I accept them I even have some homosexual friends, so yeah. (No I'm not homosexual myself, though, we'll see what time brings us.)

 

[monrepo]

I feel comfortable with gays and think gays should have the exact same rights as anybody.

 

[McTojo]

Judeo-christian point of view VS. open thinking

http://members.tripod.com/~candst/tnppage/tnpidx.htm

what needs to be understood is that marriage is a man-made convention. We define what a marriage is, not the church for that matter. But the church for some reason see's marriage as ordained by god, where's the non-biblical proof ? The question is, is where do we draw the line ? Do we accept a religious view which infringes on the constitionality of the law or do we accept the definition of marriage as two human beings who love each other regardless of what their sexual orientation is ? Most would tend to believe the latter. I say, marriage is between two consenting adults just like sex is and should be. And regardless of what religion thinks we need to follow a constitution that's all incorporating.

Is it because you have the same sexual organ it's illegal for US to recognize your union ?

 

[EddyKola]

Gay marriage is actually being legalised in the UK this December.


One step forward, not one back IMO.


Religion IMO is wrong, its caused far more bad than good in this world.

And many still live my rules written by a story teller centuries ago.

 

[Revenant]

Religion IMO is wrong, its caused far more good than bad in this world.

From the context I'd guess you mean "far more bad than good".

But I might actually disagree. Religions are powerful, in their ability to move large numbers of people towards one general direction. This can, like many other things, be used for both the benefit and detriment of others. A holy war = bad, a campaign to bring money to the poor inner city people = good.

Religion I think especially gets a bad rap just cause neither general history nor the papers highlight much of the good things they are doing. One doesn't read, 'the Mennonites came out in force and helped clean up following Hurricane John', but rather, 'Christians marching around the country declaring God's hatred for gays'. The vocal and wrong absorb all the media limelight.

Many so called religious wars were not really religiously motivated, but were rather motivated by socioeconomics. Religion was simply a good holy motive and rally call to a lot of these wars waged for socioeconomics.

And many still live my rules written by a story teller centuries ago.

That may be so. The rules, followed carefully won't actually cause much harm. If one takes the time to put the philosophy of most of the religions together, they are actually excellent, with but a few invalid rules here and there. Even the invalid rules practiced within the whole philosophical structure of said religion will hardly affect anyone.

Take homosexuality. Put together with what Jesus stated, 'If a man looks lustfully upon a woman, he has committed adultery with her in her heart', that simply means that a man must govern his thoughts, and keep them away from lustful thoughts. After all, thoughts preceed all action. The same rule would also apply to a gay, so a Christian who understands this, will understand that even a legislated rule like no gay marriages won't stop people from sinning. All change must be brought about from with, and cannot come from without.

There is also another verse that goes into Christians judging each other's actions, to ensure none loses eternal life for one unrepentant sin (compassionate motive). But that those outside of the church are to be left to God's judgement, meaning a Christian shouldn't concern himself with making sure those outside of the church follow the rules of the church.

Unfortunately, there are more than a few Christians that seem not well thought out. But the same would go for atheists, agnostics, Buddhists, and every other group of people. I don't think any group can claim the higher moral ground. Take an atheist who holds strong negative feelings towards Muslims, or Christians. I would argue they are also not well thought out.

My thoughts anyways.

 

[EddyKola]

maybe some of you can explain this to me! (forgive my ignorance please)

Some people say that being gay is not a matter of choice...Does this mean that many gay people are saying that "I don't want to be gay, I would rather be straight, but I can't help it!"??? That concept doesn't make much sense to me...

anyone?

Exactly, no choice, they cant help it.


I know gay men who have forced themselves to go out with women...but its never worked out.

 

[Silverbackman]

My stance remains. I do not think homosexuality is a sin necessarily, as I do think many homosexuals (not all but most) did not choose to be gay.

But this doesn't change the fact that marriage is between a man and a woman. That is how it is has always been and I do believe that the union of love between a man and a woman is sacred.

However, I do not mind if homosexuals want a union with rights equal to thats of straight couples just as long as they do not call it marriage (and as long as it made sure that there is a difference between a straight couple and a gay couple).

 

[Tsuyoiko]

However, I do not mind if homosexuals want a union with rights equal to thats of straight couples just as long as they do not call it marriage (and as long as it made sure that there is a difference between a straight couple and a gay couple).

IMO, the only difference between a straight couple and a gay couple is the ability to have children. And even some straight couples can't do that.

 

[Anchyyy]

I don't have anything against gays. Gay marriges seems something natural to me. I think they should be allowed everywhere. I mean my relatives don't like gays, my family doesn't like gays, no one. Today we were talking about them (again) and we started to fight. My mothers partner said gays are discusting and they don't have a real relationship, they just cheat eachother and so. I had all teary eyes. He is so cruel. I wonder what will my family do if i will date a girl someday. I've been thinking a lot about that and i've came to the point, that i don't care what they think as long as i am happy.