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Thread: JFORUM: A Tower of Babel

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shooter452
    Will that happen here? Hope not. But before we start linking arms and singing "We Are the World" and "Kumbayah" I think we should consider that result, also.
    Hope not. I hate the song 'Kumbayah'
    As for the original question. 10 000 people expressing their various opinions to others for ten years raises some questions. Should those 10 000 people be seperated from evryone else around the, so that their only contact is with the members on Jforum? Surely part of our values and opinions are caused by the people we mix with in everyday life. The 10 000 will be exposed ot everyday life and will have their thoughts affected by the people around them, as well as the people on the forum.
    If these 10 000 were seperated from everyday contact would they then form their own little world in which eventually someone with good communication skills would odminate their own personality? This has been seen in the modern world. People such as Adolf Hitler have or had good communication skill and knew how to sway an audience. (I have seen it said that Hitler would have made an excellent actor. Alternative time threads anyone?). The people in the forum would leave themselves open to this. Leading on would we find a single unit dominated by Alpha leaders and the rest just following like sheep? If they are seperated then their is a good chance of this happening. Humans are a social animal and need contact. If you are in the 10 000 and your only contact is with the others in the forum then you would agree with anything, just for the communication and social interaction.
    The question is what nationality would dominate the forum? If you are from a nationality that is known for it's outspoken views would your vioce drown out the others from less outspoken nationalities? Any thing for a quiet life.
    I've babbled again (no pun intended) and I shall leave this for a while.

  2. #27
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    Act, don't talk, that's the way to do things.

    The construction of the tower of Babel was sabotaged by Jehovah because the people could do almost anything if they put their mind into it.


    As for "HaShem".

    It was called "HaShem" (meaning "The Name") because saying the name of God ("Jehovah") is forbidden. I don't know if the Jewish Publication Society was too affraid to put the name Jehovah or being truthful to the Hebrew version (I'm currently lacking the Hebrew version of Genesis), but in one version of the translation I read, it said Jehovah, NOT HaShem, and Jehovah only started to appear in chapter II in the Book of Genesis. Heck, man (as in Adam) itself only started to appear in chapter II.



    As for the Tower of Babel idea proposed by lexico.

    People do much better when they don't talk to each other, once they talk to each other, they become confuse and don't know what to do, or worse, start messing up.

    Engineers speaks different, teachers speaks different, and so on.

    You expect all of them to talk each other and understand each other?

    In other words, I'm affraid that your idea will cause more destruction than construction. Heck, I'm sure that I'm already causing a few problems by just writing this post.



    As for Adolf Hitler is an excellent actor.

    Yes, he is, and he acted wonderfully. I think that he is also a good painter.

    Of course, once his show was over, he and his girlfriend was given a nice retirement package. Many people of course were fooled into thinking that he was really in charge, when the truth he is, he was nothing more but a paid actor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sabro
    Wait, what was the question again?
    Good question, Sabro!
    What lasts forever, while answers keep changing ?
    Does that mean diamonds are good, and perishables bad ?
    Fresh lettuce and tomatoes are good?
    If someone says I ask therefore I am, is she only begging the question ?
    And who said, never answer a question with irony ?
    Who said don't sell a salesman ?
    What does that mean ?
    Do you know ?
    What ?
    Huh ?
    ? :)
    Last edited by lexico; 26-02-05 at 00:11.
    Z: The fish in the water are happy.
    H: How do you know ? You're not fish.
    Z: How do you know I don't ? You're not me.
    H: True I am not you, and I cannot know. Likewise, I know you're not, therefore I know you don't.
    Z: You asked me how I knew implying you knew I knew. In fact I saw some fish, strolling down by the Hao River, all jolly and gay.

    --Zhuangzi

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    Quote Originally Posted by den4
    If people were left in a forum cubicle with a den4 around, then the babbling would grow exponentially until everybody fled in terror, causing the great foundations of this forum to come crashing down in a cascade of clones of Frank, because they'd be all be crazy and old prematurely, shrieking like banshees in their madness of knowing nothing or having lost all their knowledge....fortunately, this is not so....so every body is safe from sorcery...
    I think you are referring to the Mythical Man-Month, the last of the mammoth species that fled the encroaching temperate climate to the northern tundra and died there from starvation.
    Then the exponential model could be adequately replaced by the factorial one, but exponential will do for quick calcualtion.
    Losing knowledge can be tranquilising, as in the extreme case of frontal lobotomy.
    As for useless knowledge, too much of it should be madness, so why fear ?
    And surely banshees couldn't be scarier than the ringu ghost, could it ?

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shooter452
    Much as I would like to believe that these kinds of forums encourage understanding and tolerance, I have some doubts....in keeping with the Japanese flavor, it is the most polite and restrained of them all. In almost every one, there is a pervasive attitude that coats the membership and is not exactly welcoming toward opposing thought.

    This often drives parties into neutral corners--or worse--when the debate is over widely divisive topics. I have seen that attitude even here (again, it is much more polite and civil, but it is...it exists). After a time, edges of debate often (always?) become sharper and more caustic and the margin of civility often slowly evaporates.

    In the end, the forums usually become toxic places where only argument reigns, only insult is supreme, and the atmosphere of understanding and forbearance no longer can be found. Will that happen here?
    I don't think I am fully ready to answer your question yet. Possibly people who's been here for years could have a clearer idea than me. But let me try anyway.

    I think what makes this place unique is the prevailing marginal condition. By definition of being a member of a Japanese forum, many people here are typically characterized by belonging to two cultures. Whatever the individual motivation that brought people here, there is a place of origin, and a place or destination. Whether it is interest sparked by language learning or teaching, past experience, game and anime, a Japanese friend or spouse, there is a strong willingness to leave behind what is familiar and to explore the unknown.

    If we were simply those complacent people who had seen all that could be seen, and had no genuine desire to seek out new things, why would we bother to read and explore and share our ideas ? When I am a relatively new arrival of choice to this unexplored land, why would I bring old grudges and resentments along ? My ears and eyes are open to what will unfold before me.

    The two thorns that can spoil a good game would be losing the opponent or falling asleep from boredom. As much as Japan is interesting, it presents perplexing contradictions and challenges that can threaten our well-being. As much as people are interesting, they can likewise be the victim or the vitimized. If we can avoid these extreme circumstances three, then I believe there is a high chance that the tower neither collapses from mutual destruction nor become desolate from totally avoiding any conflict.
    Last edited by lexico; 26-02-05 at 11:56.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shooter452
    Now, I was always told that the Hebrew name for God was Y*H*W*H, with the vowel sounds ommitted (it was thought to be dangerous or sinful to say the name of the God). I have also often heard God referred to as "adanoi" which translates roughly to "the all mighty" but I have never heard of HaShem.

    I do not doubt you, but for the sake of further illumation, would you be so kind as to elaborate on your source?

    Thank you.
    Just thought I pick up on this, as it concerns the name Jehovah. This might interest some of you, others it will probably annoy. Did you know that the word Jehovah is a copist mistake? Allow me to explain. It starts with the name Yhwh, the name given to God in the Old testement. Later it became to sacred to pronouce (does anyone remember the scene in 'The Life of Brian'?) so when the name was written in the early Bible the word Adonai (My Lord) was read instead. Now the Hebrew alphabet consist of consonants only and in the early middle ages vowel points were added to Old Testement texts. They inserted the vowels for Adonai under the the four consonants of Yhwh, thus saying that Adonai should be said instead of Yhwh. As time went by early translators read the name of Yhwh with the four consonants for Adonai and wrote then combined together to form the name that we now know as Jehovah. I actaully met a mormon who knew about this and wasn't particularly bothered about it. That is my fact for the day, and I am now going to bed

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