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View Poll Results: What do you think about his points? (As listed below.)

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  • He's right, and most Christians would agree.

    0 0%
  • He's wrong, and most Christians would agree.

    1 100.00%
  • He's part of a minority of Fundamentalists.

    1 100.00%
  • I am a Christian and I agree with his points.

    0 0%
  • I am a Christian and I don't agree.

    0 0%
  • I am a Christian and I'm not sure if I agree with his points, or not all of them.

    0 0%
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Thread: Christian opinions wanted

  1. #1
    I jump to conclusions mad pierrot's Avatar
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    Question Christian opinions wanted



    on this guy. Specifically, about these points from his BOOK.

    I'm just curious because he seems to be very popular. I'm interested in hearing what Christians think of him and his writing, but all opinions are welcome.

    From his book:
    Rev. Jeffries points:
    gEvery other religion is wrong.h
    ·gGod sends good people to Hell.h
    ·gHomosexuality is a perversion.h
    ·gEvolution is a myth.h
    ·gGod is ultimately responsible for suffering in the world.h
    ·gHusbands are to lead their families.h
    ·gAmerica is a Christian nation.h
    In my opinion, this scares the hell out of me. (No pun intended.) I'm surprised how many people I've met who prescribe to this. Has it just been the people I've been meeting?




    And yes, I know I'm off topic again.



    -------------------
    edit* (specifics.)
    Last edited by mad pierrot; 23-01-05 at 16:23.
    Patience has its limits. Take it too far, and it's cowardice.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Shooter452's Avatar
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    Poll too limited...not enough choices, could not cast a ballot.

    I have not read Jeffries book, so I will not suggest an opinion of his thematic material. However, comma, there is abundant criptual foundation for all of those statements.

    Merely because one does not share a belief does not mean that the belief is not righteous. I do not like highway speed limits (I would like it if I was permitted to ignore them when I want to go fast!) but they are what they are, and even I can see how they might be necessary.

    And while it is dismissive to compare the foundation beliefs of a major faith to a highway safety regulation, it was the first analogy that came to mind.

    BTW, from the sound of the book, I think I would rather buy another copy of SHOGUN than expend my money on it. My first copy was ruined in a house fire (ironically, it suffered water damage during the efforts of the Half-Moon Volunteer Fire Department to put out the raging inferno my home had become). But to each his own.


    Bene, cum Latine nescias, nolo manus meas in te macular
    Last edited by Shooter452; 23-01-05 at 14:31. Reason: correction of spelling and syntax errors

  3. #3
    Chukchi Salmon
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    Quote Originally Posted by mad pierrot
    on this guy. Specifically, his BOOK.
    I'm just curious because he seems to be very popular. I'm interested in hearing what Christians think of him and his writing, but all opinions are welcome......In my opinion, this scares the hell out of me. (No pun intended.) I'm surprised how many people I've met who prescribe to this. Has it just been the people I've been meeting?

    And yes, I know I'm off topic again.
    Why do you apologize? I think you're on topic. In fact you've just given birth to a new topic. How can a mother apologize for her new born baby?

    I tend to elaborate when I really do not know much. This time I will try to spare my words and be brief for once! I'd better be, for the bible says I shall be accountable for everything I say. Speak of scary! But silence shall also be accountable, so better watch myself! Either way, there's no escape.

    Assuming you're quotation is accurate, because you sound sincere, let me go over this one line at a time. However, I have to discliam myself because a line by definition is out of context. Doesn't help Mr. Jeffries at all. Here I go.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. Jeffries
    gEvery other religion is wrong.h
    Faith has evolved. Every major bible incident speaks of God's revelation of something unheard of perviously. Judeo-Chirstianity is basically characterized as a religion of revelation, covenants and fulfillment. Revelation is evolution in the sense that the partial relationship of the past becomes more full with every incident of God's appearance. So when he says "other" religion, he is gliding over this mysterious and wonderful aspect of his own faith.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. Jeffries
    gGod sends good people to Hell.h
    It is written, "Thou shalt not judge." I believe "good" or "bad," "heaven" or "hell" is beyond his priviledge. A reverend is not a priest, btw. Nor is a catholic father, nor the pope. The Jews do not continue priesthood, maybe the Ethiopian Jews do? There is no priviledge for anyone. But as a Christian fellow, he is entitled to express his faith. Just please don't shove it down. Looking at it the other way, he may be referring to the mystery of Job. It's out of context, and I souldn't say much. :)

    Edit: I just realized what he is talking about. He is trying to answer a sunday school question. "Do good people go to hell by not being Christian?"
    "Do bad people go to heaven just by being Christian?"
    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. Jeffries
    gHomosexuality is a perversion.h
    Before speaking of homosexuality, does he understand sexuality? If he is trying to help some people on the borderline to assert their sexual identity, I can live with that. If condemning non-straight individuals is his main goal, I think he is making the same mistake of the previous line.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. Jeffries
    gEvolution is a myth.h
    O, the blind leading the blind. He probably wants to fight the arrogance of some scientists who worship their scientific skills; idolators of the self. But many scientists know the difference between skill and cosmic existence, and therefore know to humble themselves. Spirituality is obviously trasparent to some, like glass, so they can't see what is not obvious. I feel as much sorry for them as Mr. Jeffries. But not in the same way I hope.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. Jeffries
    gGod is ultimately responsible for suffering in the world.h
    O, Providence, Calvinism. Out of context, it would be unfair to criticize Mr. Jeffries. This could mean a million different things. I understand that the idea is to refute the dualism of God and the devil, which developed out of Persian influence before and after the time of Jesus.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. Jeffries
    gHusbands are to lead their families.h
    The ways of the times...what can I say...But a historical approach to the scriptutres always reveals some truth. Applying an incidental and time dependent trend literally to the present is anachronism...Is he asking us to go back in time? Yes, the family is crumbling, and he wants to help.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. Jeffries
    gAmerica is a Christian nation.h
    Grossly misleading. If he is talking about the Judeo-Christian undercurrent in US culture, that would be an accurate statement, but still wanting some kind of qualification. In what way it is so, would be illuminating for those who do not see the 2,000 yrs of JC influence on Western civilization. In principle, however, the Puritans only happen to be the first (?maybe not)-- one of the early arrivals from Europe with a religious agenda. I belive the US Constitution also specifies clearly of the freedom to one's faith, not obligation to accept Christianity. But all this is out of context. He may be just trying to home in on a point of spirituality among his congregation. Mina~san, please comment on any undue remarks.

    comment on pole: I am unable to vote, because I do not have enough knowledge of Mr. Jeffries' spirituality. I could have voted for "Fundamentalist" but I really can't say anything on that. Maybe he's not even Christian???
    Last edited by lexico; 23-01-05 at 19:02.
    Z: The fish in the water are happy.
    H: How do you know ? You're not fish.
    Z: How do you know I don't ? You're not me.
    H: True I am not you, and I cannot know. Likewise, I know you're not, therefore I know you don't.
    Z: You asked me how I knew implying you knew I knew. In fact I saw some fish, strolling down by the Hao River, all jolly and gay.

    --Zhuangzi

  4. #4
    I jump to conclusions mad pierrot's Avatar
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    Lexico,
    Thanks for your reponse! I am being serious.

    Maybe he's not even Christian???
    He's a baptist preacher.

    Why do you apologize? I think you're on topic. In fact you've just given birth to a new topic. How can a mother apologize for her new born baby
    Most of my post have been directed towards non-Japanese issues lately. I figure I should stick more with Japan related topics in the future...


    Shooter, what else would you like on the poll? Tell me and I'll add it. (As long as it's relevant.)

  5. #5
    Chukchi Salmon
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    Quote Originally Posted by mad pierrot
    I am being serious.
    Yes, how could you be otherwise?
    Quote Originally Posted by mad pierrot
    He's a baptist preacher.
    Sorry, I went too far, didn't I? I'm glad he's not presbyterian, or methodist, or Jacobian, or Abyssinian, or Coptic, or Baylonian.
    Quote Originally Posted by mad pierrot
    Most of my post have been directed towards non-Japanese issues lately. I figure I should stick more with Japan related topics in the future...
    What happened? Did you lose interest in Japan? That is just not possible, unforgivable, and unacceptable by all standards. Even if you've lost interest, you are not supposed to admit it. You have to deny it with all the strength you can muster, and pronounce yourself a sturdy Japanophile to all those who look up to you for guidance in Japanese matters.
    I'm just kidding. But seriously, did Maciamo kick you for that?
    Quote Originally Posted by mad pierrot
    Shooter, what else would you like on the poll? Tell me and I'll add it. (As long as it's relevant.)
    Can you really do that, Mad_Pierrot? I could never fix anything in the poll setup once I submitted.

  6. #6
    I jump to conclusions mad pierrot's Avatar
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    But seriously, did Maciamo kick you for that?
    No, but I'm sure some other people would like to!

    Can you really do that, Mad_Pierrot? I could never fix anything in the poll setup once I submitted.
    All Mods can.

    Seirously, I just interested in finding out how people think about this. I was surprised last time I asked some people about this, and I just want to see if it was the people I was talking with or not.

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