Debate Q2: Do you (honestly) care what people think about you?

smoke said:
I believe...being negative is...being realistic...unfortunately.
This reminds me of many things. When the actual outcome falls vastly short of expectations, the mind makes appropriate adjustments. Now every individual has different ideas about reality, and hence the disappointment would likewise be different, and adding to this are the different reactions. What comes about as a result can be quite varied. Self-negation has made people clinically depressed, just mildly realistic, or to wander off in search of true happiness as in the case of Siddhartha Buddha or St. Francisco. So in that sense, your definition of negative is more of a philosophical nature rather than in the ordinary sense of the word. Related though.

I am also reminded of my dog. You see, the life of a big dog in my house offers little pleasure due to the strange house makeup (a little hard to explain.) But I noticed that she is always, I mean always, happy to see me. I often wonder what would happen if I could be half as happy as her. Would that make me unrealistic, or just a happy, jolly kind of guy?? :blush:
smoke said:
There are two reasons why i look at certain things in a negative way.

1. If you look at things negatively and things do turn out negative, it doesn't hurt as much.
2. If you look at things negatively and things turn out positive, it comes as a pleasant surprise.
Strange coincidence, I would often tell myself exactly the same thing. After my busy life, I stopped thinking what you just said, but I guess it has already become part of me. I also wonder whether I have become chronically pessimistic or cynical. Btw, cynic means "doggy?" :blush:
smoke said:
A positive outlook on negativity...a definition of irony if ever i saw one.
I belive the Stoics developed the "negativity" concept and packaged it under the title, ataraxia, detatchment from all worldly pleasures. Funny though, the Epicures were direct disciples of the Stoic school ?? Extreme seems to lead to other extremes. What do you think?? :blush:
I really wish we had a dog emoticon. :D
 
lexico said:
I really wish we had a dog emoticon. :D

*doggy ears twitch* So do I.:)

Doc:ramen:
 
My instinctive reaction is to say...

No.

But, if that is the case, then why do I bother pontificating here on the Forum so often? It may be that we all seek validation through the opinion of others, but it is unhealthy for us to devote too much of our lives in the pursuit of their approval.

Public opinion is a capricious god. No one can maintain his favor for long and it is folly to pursue it as a life's ambition.

But, still, if such is the case, why are we here?

Cum recte vivis, ne cures verba malorum.
 
Doc said:
Anyway, about my friend, I guess you could say it's a brotherly relationship. As for my complaint about him, it's mostly with the camera control issue that he has. Think of the game Pong for a minute. Visualize the ball bouncing back and forth. Now speed that up by 400%, and you have my friend with his camera work on a game. He constantly complains about getting killed, and the only advice I have to give him is to stop abusing the damn camera and properly use it, instead of someone playing the game with a seizer. Ay, yi, ya!:mad:

Doc:ramen:
Yes, they always want to win. But I think, as long as he values the friendship and has genuine repsect for you, technical problems will eventually disappear. I think so. Is he much younger than you ?
 
lexico said:
Yes, they always want to win. But I think, as long as he values the friendship and has genuine repsect for you, technical problems will eventually disappear. I think so. Is he much younger than you ?

Oh I think he does. We have too much in common about our pasts for him not to respect the relationship. As for age, he's about one month younger than me. His birthday is on Earth Day, April 22.

Doc:ramen:
 
lexico.
in relation to your dog...i think happiness is relative. that is why it is something very personal and individual...look at it this way if you will.
would the things that make your dog happy make you happy? and vice-versa?
would you feel content with a bowl of finest quality dog-food and the odd pat on the head from your master.
and would your dog feel happy to sit at a computer and type replies to non-sensical questions asked by someone with too much time on their hands from the other side of the world?
in my opinion i don't think we could compare the thought patterns of an animal to that of a human...if we could, at least i would always know what to get my girlfriend for christmas...a big old juicy bone (no jokes please!!!)
i suppose it all depends how you define 'reality' for a dog.

as for extremes leading to other extremes...i suppose it depends on the particular extremes and what the realtive 'middle grounds' are.
but i believe there is something in between extremes.
in a literal sense (ie temperature) there are things between, say; hot and cold.
in an emotional sense i believe it is possible (for example) not to be happy and at the same time not to be sad.

-----------------------------------------------

"So in that sense, your definition of negative is more of a philosophical nature rather than in the ordinary sense of the word. Related though."
i only philosophise (sp?) as i have little interlect to base fact upon. the term negative has many meanings, both literal and philosophical, to define it can be tricky.
 
Shooter452 said:
No.

But, if that is the case, then why do I bother pontificating here on the Forum so often? It may be that we all seek validation through the opinion of others, but it is unhealthy for us to devote too much of our lives in the pursuit of their approval.

Public opinion is a capricious god. No one can maintain his favor for long and it is folly to pursue it as a life's ambition.

But, still, if such is the case, why are we here?

Cum recte vivis, ne cures verba malorum.
I think I see why you said no. To be judged by others is a scary thing because at that point, one becomes an object or a commodity on the market weighed for a good price to be sold at.

I think another way of looking at the question (Smoke's, yours or both) is to compare it to a child's playground. If no other kid wants to play with me, that is the death sentence for the my social life. Just being able to join in the fun, so to speak, is the same as approval. Of course adults may do it a little different, but I think the principle's the same. Some while ago, I found a very unique post (ask me if you're curious). But the poster had not been on the forum for some time. Guess why? The post had no response attached.

This doesn't mean we can force responses just to keep people happy and welcome, but it does tell that some people, for various reasons, can have trouble connecting with others. And that's why (s)he stopped coming here.

I read an interesting piece saying, the greatest toy in the world is another human being. Can be friendly, can be abusive. Can be fun, can be boring. All depending on how the interaction goes. Something of that sense.
 
lexico said:
I read an interesting piece saying, the greatest toy in the world is another human being. Can be friendly, can be abusive. Can be fun, can be boring.
...can be sexual!
sorry, it was an oppourtunity i couldn't resist.
 
smoke said:
lexico.
in relation to your dog...i think happiness is relative. that is why it is something very personal and individual...look at it this way if you will.
would the things that make your dog happy make you happy? and vice-versa?
would you feel content with a bowl of finest quality dog-food and the odd pat on the head from your master.
and would your dog feel happy to sit at a computer and type replies to non-sensical questions asked by someone with too much time on their hands from the other side of the world?
in my opinion i don't think we could compare the thought patterns of an animal to that of a human...if we could, at least i would always know what to get my girlfriend for christmas...a big old juicy bone (no jokes please!!!)
i suppose it all depends how you define 'reality' for a dog.

as for extremes leading to other extremes...i suppose it depends on the particular extremes and what the realtive 'middle grounds' are.
but i believe there is something in between extremes.
in a literal sense (ie temperature) there are things between, say; hot and cold.
in an emotional sense i believe it is possible (for example) not to be happy and at the same time not to be sad.

-----------------------------------------------

"So in that sense, your definition of negative is more of a philosophical nature rather than in the ordinary sense of the word. Related though."
i only philosophise (sp?) as i have little interlect to base fact upon. the term negative has many meanings, both literal and philosophical, to define it can be tricky.

Damn you smoke! Damn you!!!

Doc:ramen:
 
Doc said:
Damn you smoke! Damn you!!!

Doc:ramen:
did you have an acceptionally witty response to the girlfriend line?
or are you just generally damning me...it happens a lot, so just to clarify!
 
smoke said:
...can be sexual!
sorry, it was an oppourtunity i couldn't resist.
I understand. Being a healthy human male makes it particularly difficult to concentrate for 20 seconds without thinking about sex!!
That's the thing about the army being segregated by the sex. Monasteries, colleges, companies, orders, societies, clubs, and golf courses were more intensely segregated because the idea of sex would always get in the way.

Nevertheless I'm not denying that it's totally impossible to hold an intelligent covo with the opposite sex, just a tad difficult!! :love:

Since you seem to enjoy it, I'll make it more interesting for you.
the greatest (sex) in the world is (with) another human being. Can be friendly, can be abusive. Can be fun, can be boring. All depending on how the (it) goes.
 
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smoke said:
did you have an acceptionally witty response to the girlfriend line?
or are you just generally damning me...it happens a lot, so just to clarify!

Actually I did have a witty remark, but it sounds like damning you is more fun. ^____^

Doc
 
lexico said:
I'm not denying that it's totally impossible to hold an intelligent covo with the opposite sex, just a tad difficult!! :love:
if you lived in the same area that i do you wouldn't find it a problem...to be honest, most of the people in my area can barely hold a conversations...male or female. just the odd grunt or hand gesture.
 
Doc said:
Actually I did have a witty remark, but it sounds like damning you is more fun. ^____^

Doc
ok...i retract the 'no jokes please' statement...go ahead.

and yeah, damning me is a lot-o-fun...for all the family! well, it's a lot of fun for all my family! :eek:kashii:
 
smoke said:
ok...i retract the 'no jokes please' statement...go ahead.

and yeah, damning me is a lot-o-fun...for all the family! well, it's a lot of fun for all my family! :eek:kashii:

Sarcasm is not your forte is it? :eek:kashii:

Doc:ramen:
 
As usual,

lexico said:
I think I see why you said no. To be judged by others is a scary thing because at that point, one becomes an object or a commodity on the market weighed for a good price to be sold at.

I think another way of looking at the question (Smoke's, yours or both) is to compare it to a child's playground. If no other kid wants to play with me, that is the death sentence for the my social life. Just being able to join in the fun, so to speak, is the same as approval. Of course adults may do it a little different, but I think the principle's the same. Some while ago, I found a very unique post (ask me if you're curious). But the poster had not been on the forum for some time. Guess why? The post had no response attached.

This doesn't mean we can force responses just to keep people happy and welcome, but it does tell that some people, for various reasons, can have trouble connecting with others. And that's why (s)he stopped coming here.

I read an interesting piece saying, the greatest toy in the world is another human being. Can be friendly, can be abusive. Can be fun, can be boring. All depending on how the interaction goes. Something of that sense.
You awe me, lexico-san.

I come here to hear you speak when ever I begin to feel too big for my britches. While I do not always agree, I am impressed by your quiet wisdom.

Say on, sir! You have my compliments.
 
I do. I care what people think about me.. both my looks and my personality. Since people around you are the ones that you're (in one way or another) sharing your life with, I care.

Lately, it has become a good thing (almost popular) to say that "you don't care" and is comfortable with yourself and don't give a damn about what others think. I also think it's good of one can think like this.. But I don't. And I think a lot of people share my thoughts, even though they don't admit it.
 
isayhello said:
I do. I care what people think about me.. both my looks and my personality. Since people around you are the ones that you're (in one way or another) sharing your life with, I care.

Lately, it has become a good thing (almost popular) to say that "you don't care" and is comfortable with yourself and don't give a damn about what others think. I also think it's good of one can think like this.. But I don't. And I think a lot of people share my thoughts, even though they don't admit it.
i think this is a good point.
for whatever reason people do not like to admit that they care what people think of them.
i do believe that people 'don't care' what "certain" people think of them and they value the opinion of those closer to them...friends, immediate family etc.
 
isayhello said:
Lately, it has become a good thing (almost popular) to say that "you don't care" and is comfortable with yourself and don't give a damn about what others think.
I also think it's good of one can think like this.. But I don't. And I think a lot of people share my thoughts, even though they don't admit it.
Smoke said:
for whatever reason people do not like to admit that they care what people think of them.
What you say brings due attention to two opposing tendencies which is probably shared by many people regardless of what they say. It is a frightening idea that I may be bullsh*tting when I say "I don't give a damn!" It is another frightening idea that I actually don't give a damn when I should. What if I lose my good senses for 1 month and start running around naked in my neighborhood not giving a damn? What if I start giving too much of a damned thought about my neighbors' opinions and go the wrong way?

Language can be used in a magical way to cut and shape reality. The optative mood in the grammatical table, even without a religion or superstition, has the power of wishing things to be in a different state from what is simply observed, or from how it is stated by others. By pronouncing and spelling out the way things should be in your own mind brings sanity to what may otherwise seem insane, threatening, or absurd.

The verbal declaration of reality as it should be is one of the powers that can help us move forward to our goals, or it can be the self-defeating curse on oursleves. It can be either liberating or destructive. When sticks and stones may not break our bones, they still hurt, so it becomes necessary to nullify the verbal curse encroaching on our sense of security. Hence there is validity when peopel say they don't give a damn. It is a promise that is self-fulfilling for the verbalizer. Exactly because, without saying it, they do give too much of a damn.
 

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