Debate Q5: What happens to you after you die?

I may be ridiculed or flamed for this, but it is backed up by my own research these past 30 years. It is why I do not fear death. This is quite long. So grab a drink, relax, and enjoy. You can discount it if you want, but it is a true story.

I have read all the posts here and there is just too much for me to quote and comment on, but let me give you my opinion based on my research as this is a subject that has interested me ever since I had what is called an "SOBE" (Spontanious Out of Body Experience) some 30 years ago.

Background: I was visiting my sister in New York back in the 70's on vacation from university in Japan. We had stayed up for the better part of the night talking and imbibing in some alcohol. Around dawn we all went to bed. I was feeling good, but I was not stoned drunk.

I remember laying in bed on my left side in the fetal position. Suddenly I had distinct visions, like movie clips, of my life up till then. Very clear and very precise. Without warning I was suddenly above the bed looking down on my body! My first thought was that I had died. I thought the feeling was pretty cool. I was not afraid, or angry, or anything. I just thought, "Wow, I'm dead. Cool." I made the motions of putting my palms up to my face to look at my hands and said to myself, "I have no hands!" I then "looked" down like I was trying to look at my legs or lower body and said to myself, "I have no body!"

I thought this was really cool and started floating around the room. I said to myself that I wanted to pass through the walls into my sisters bedroom to see if they were there. Without any effort I was suddenly there looking down on my sister and her husband in bed. I then thought that I was really dead. But the feeling I had was the best I had ever felt in my life. I cannot explain it in words.

I then thought about my own body in the other room and suddenly I was there looking at myself on the bed. I then floated near the window and said to myself, "If I am dead I guess I'll try and visit my friends in Japan and see what they are doing." At this point I felt a strong tug and was "pulled" back to my body. "No! I don't want to go back! This feels too good!"

As much as I tried to resist I couldn't. I watched my body get closer and closer and without warning I opened my eyes, sat up in bed and said, "What the hell was that? That was no damn dream!"

Now, some may say that was just a dream or my imagination. But to them I say, do your research first on OBE's and NDE's (Near Death Experiences) before you make a statement like that. Through my research I have come to discover that I had what is coinsidered a very normal thing and was not a dream.

Since that experience I also started doing research into death and reincarnation. So what does happen to you at the moment of death?

Death: You are suddenly above your body looking down on the accident, or hospital bed, or wherever it was that you died. If you drowned, it was probably a rewarding experience as those that have nearly drowned say that the experience is phenominal. You are concious much as you would be in the physical body. If you selected to feel pain at the time of your death it will be quickly passed and forgotten about.

Remember, you have selected your time period, your parents, your gender, your country, your race, and your death based on what you need to learn in this existance.

You look around and see a light or tunnel and you gravitate towards it. (Anyone see the movie "Ghost" or "What Dreams May Come"?) The colors are indescribable. The feeling is one that you have never experienced before. It is "true love." As you travel down the tunnel of light you see loved ones and pets waiting for you on the other side welcoming you warmly. If it is not your time and you are only severly injured, say, you are told that it is not your time yet and you must go back to "complete your mission" whatever that may be.

If it is indeed your time you "cross over" to the afterlife. You meet with your loved ones and pets and are then given a life review of your most previous reincarnation. Every single microsecond of your life is reviewed and relived. However, it is not relived from your perspective, it is relived from the perspective and feelings of everyone you ever came in contact with in this existance.

If you caused pain and/or suffering to someone you will feel that pain and suffering from their perspective and feelings. In other words you will feel what they felt as you did it to them. If you caused good to someone you will also feel that good you did from their perspective and feelings.

There is no "time" as we know it on the physical plane, there is no heaven or hell and one is not punished for the bad deeds they comitted in the physical life as life is a learning experience. Here you learn from your mistakes. You are then allowed to view your "akashic records" which is a permanent record of every life you have ever lived.

You can then choose to be reborn or remain on the "other side." The choice is up to you. However, in order for the soul to advance more quickly, life on the physical plane is the fastest way. No one enters the physical world if one doesn't want to.

Therefore, the life you are living is the one you selected. (Are you listening isayhello?) Your parents are the ones you selected and you also selected your death. You have selected every experience, whether good or bad, that you will experience. It is up to you decide what decision to make when the time comes.

In previous lives you may have been your mothers brother or your fathers sister. Everyone changes roles throughout their lives on this plane. For one to believe that they have no soul or that life just ends and it is "lights out" they, based on my research, are just young souls who have not gone through enough lives to know the truth inside themselves. It is said that the "old souls know" the truth inside themselves.

This is why I do not adhere to any particular religion because they are holding back the truth in order to control the populace. To believe that this is the only life we will ever have and if we do not accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior we are condemned to hell is beyond me as that is NOT what Jesus taught! Based on this I guess my wife and I are going to hell because she is Japanese and believes otherwise and so do I.

If I were to follow any religion or teaching it would probably be the Buddhist teachings as theirs is the closest to what I have researched so far.

For more info on my research and life after death please check out these sites and click around. I think it will be an eye opening experience:

Dr. Raymond Moody, Phd, Life After Life

Death is not the Final Chapter by Dannion Brinkley and

The Twilight Brigade on how to deal with your own death and the death of loved ones.

I firmly believe that death is not an end but a beginning. If I am wrong, well, hell I won't know the diffrerence anyway right? It'll be just like going to sleep and never waking up. However, I have the funny feeling that this is not the case.

"Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You," or you may wind up in their shoes in the next life. Kind of true and scary if you think about it.
 
life after life

To believe that this is the only life we will ever have and if we do not accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior we are condemned to hell is beyond me as that is NOT what Jesus taught!

Pachipo, back up this statement please. If you read the Bible, you'll find that it is what Jesus taught. "I am the Way, the Truth, the Life. No man comes to the Father but by Me."

Peace.
 
Pachipro said:
I may be ridiculed or flamed for this, but it is backed up by my own research these past 30 years. It is why I do not fear death. This is quite long. So grab a drink, relax, and enjoy. You can discount it if you want, but it is a true story.

I have read all the posts here and there is just too much for me to quote and comment on, but let me give you my opinion based on my research as this is a subject that has interested me ever since I had what is called an "SOBE" (Spontanious Out of Body Experience) some 30 years ago.

Background: I was visiting my sister in New York back in the 70's on vacation from university in Japan. We had stayed up for the better part of the night talking and imbibing in some alcohol. Around dawn we all went to bed. I was feeling good, but I was not stoned drunk.

I remember laying in bed on my left side in the fetal position. Suddenly I had distinct visions, like movie clips, of my life up till then. Very clear and very precise. Without warning I was suddenly above the bed looking down on my body! My first thought was that I had died. I thought the feeling was pretty cool. I was not afraid, or angry, or anything. I just thought, "Wow, I'm dead. Cool." I made the motions of putting my palms up to my face to look at my hands and said to myself, "I have no hands!" I then "looked" down like I was trying to look at my legs or lower body and said to myself, "I have no body!"

I thought this was really cool and started floating around the room. I said to myself that I wanted to pass through the walls into my sisters bedroom to see if they were there. Without any effort I was suddenly there looking down on my sister and her husband in bed. I then thought that I was really dead. But the feeling I had was the best I had ever felt in my life. I cannot explain it in words.

I then thought about my own body in the other room and suddenly I was there looking at myself on the bed. I then floated near the window and said to myself, "If I am dead I guess I'll try and visit my friends in Japan and see what they are doing." At this point I felt a strong tug and was "pulled" back to my body. "No! I don't want to go back! This feels too good!"

As much as I tried to resist I couldn't. I watched my body get closer and closer and without warning I opened my eyes, sat up in bed and said, "What the hell was that? That was no damn dream!"

Now, some may say that was just a dream or my imagination. But to them I say, do your research first on OBE's and NDE's (Near Death Experiences) before you make a statement like that. Through my research I have come to discover that I had what is coinsidered a very normal thing and was not a dream.

Since that experience I also started doing research into death and reincarnation. So what does happen to you at the moment of death?

Death: You are suddenly above your body looking down on the accident, or hospital bed, or wherever it was that you died. If you drowned, it was probably a rewarding experience as those that have nearly drowned say that the experience is phenominal. You are concious much as you would be in the physical body. If you selected to feel pain at the time of your death it will be quickly passed and forgotten about.

Remember, you have selected your time period, your parents, your gender, your country, your race, and your death based on what you need to learn in this existance.

You look around and see a light or tunnel and you gravitate towards it. (Anyone see the movie "Ghost" or "What Dreams May Come"?) The colors are indescribable. The feeling is one that you have never experienced before. It is "true love." As you travel down the tunnel of light you see loved ones and pets waiting for you on the other side welcoming you warmly. If it is not your time and you are only severly injured, say, you are told that it is not your time yet and you must go back to "complete your mission" whatever that may be.

If it is indeed your time you "cross over" to the afterlife. You meet with your loved ones and pets and are then given a life review of your most previous reincarnation. Every single microsecond of your life is reviewed and relived. However, it is not relived from your perspective, it is relived from the perspective and feelings of everyone you ever came in contact with in this existance.

If you caused pain and/or suffering to someone you will feel that pain and suffering from their perspective and feelings. In other words you will feel what they felt as you did it to them. If you caused good to someone you will also feel that good you did from their perspective and feelings.

There is no "time" as we know it on the physical plane, there is no heaven or hell and one is not punished for the bad deeds they comitted in the physical life as life is a learning experience. Here you learn from your mistakes. You are then allowed to view your "akashic records" which is a permanent record of every life you have ever lived.

You can then choose to be reborn or remain on the "other side." The choice is up to you. However, in order for the soul to advance more quickly, life on the physical plane is the fastest way. No one enters the physical world if one doesn't want to.

Therefore, the life you are living is the one you selected. (Are you listening isayhello?) Your parents are the ones you selected and you also selected your death. You have selected every experience, whether good or bad, that you will experience. It is up to you decide what decision to make when the time comes.

In previous lives you may have been your mothers brother or your fathers sister. Everyone changes roles throughout their lives on this plane. For one to believe that they have no soul or that life just ends and it is "lights out" they, based on my research, are just young souls who have not gone through enough lives to know the truth inside themselves. It is said that the "old souls know" the truth inside themselves.

This is why I do not adhere to any particular religion because they are holding back the truth in order to control the populace. To believe that this is the only life we will ever have and if we do not accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior we are condemned to hell is beyond me as that is NOT what Jesus taught! Based on this I guess my wife and I are going to hell because she is Japanese and believes otherwise and so do I.

If I were to follow any religion or teaching it would probably be the Buddhist teachings as theirs is the closest to what I have researched so far.

For more info on my research and life after death please check out these sites and click around. I think it will be an eye opening experience:

Dr. Raymond Moody, Phd, Life After Life

Death is not the Final Chapter by Dannion Brinkley and

The Twilight Brigade on how to deal with your own death and the death of loved ones.

I firmly believe that death is not an end but a beginning. If I am wrong, well, hell I won't know the diffrerence anyway right? It'll be just like going to sleep and never waking up. However, I have the funny feeling that this is not the case.

"Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You," or you may wind up in their shoes in the next life. Kind of true and scary if you think about it.

Here's a question: what if the life you live now is cut short? What I mean is, if we're all here for a particular mission, what happens if we don't fulfill that mission?

Doc:ramen::happy:
 
Jesus Taught Unconditional Love

Quote:
To believe that this is the only life we will ever have and if we do not accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior we are condemned to hell is beyond me as that is NOT what Jesus taught!

Pararousia said:
Pachipo, back up this statement please. If you read the Bible, you'll find that it is what Jesus taught. "I am the Way, the Truth, the Life. No man comes to the Father but by Me."

Peace.
Let me preface this here by saying that I do not, nor will I ever put down, anothers faith and religion and what they believe in. We are all free to believe what we feel is best. I am only looking for honest, intellectual debate, not another war over religion.

The Bible was written by humans. These humans said they were quoting Jesus. We do not know for sure that is exactly what Jesus said. Now, in my point of view, I believe there was indeed a man named Jesus who lived back then and he was a very spiritual person. He taught us the golden rule to love others and to do unto others what you would have them do unto you.

Now, am I to believe that if I do not accept him I am condemned for all eternity? Or to be forbidden entry into the kingdom of heaven if there is one? Is my wife, who is not a christian condemned because she believes in another faith? My children (if I had any) too? Why? Because of that one statement in a book written by humans? To me that is not the love that Jesus taught. Jesus taught uncoditional love. To love regardless of whether he was accepted or not. "Father forgive them for they know not what they do."
"I am the Way, the Truth, the Life. No man comes to the Father but by Me."
If this quote is the love and teachings of him and his father than that is not love to me. That seems to be hate and spite and Jesus did not teach to hate and spite. But if I am to believe this quote, that is exactly what he is teaching. It seems like he is saying, "Accept me or I will spite you for all eternity by forbidding you entry into the kingdom of the father." I'm sorry, but I cannot accept that.

It seems to be much like the hate and spite of the God of the old testament. Wasn't it God who supposidly gave us the ten commandments? Wasn't one his commandments "Thou shalt not kill"? Wasn't it God, in the old testament, who destroyed all of mankind with the great flood? He broke his own commandment and does not have unconditional love in my thinking. In fact it is stated that he even made a mistake by creating humans. I thought God was perfect and didn't make any mistakes! A true, loving God would not destroy his own creations.

It's contradictory things like these that forced me to look elsewhere and within myself for the answers and to question the teachings of the church. I believe that regardless of what is written in the bible, that Jesus and his father would accept any and all persons, regardless of their beliefs, into the kingdom of God, if there is one.
 
Doc said:
Here's a question: what if the life you live now is cut short? What I mean is, if we're all here for a particular mission, what happens if we don't fulfill that mission?
From what I've researched no one dies before his/her mission is completed. What that mission is no one knows until after death.
 
I have another question for you Pachipro. If we are nothing more than entities that go through life to life learning, does that mean that there is still a concept of a deity (God) due to the fact that we as humans had to still be brought into existence? Furthermore, could it be possible that the angels that we as humans believe to exist to help us are really souls who have stayed on the other side, but have intervened when deemed necessary?

Doc:ramen::happy:
 
Doc said:
If we are nothing more than entities that go through life to life learning, does that mean that there is still a concept of a deity (God) due to the fact that we as humans had to still be brought into existence?
From what I've read (and I have read alot on the subject) their is a concept of a diety, if you want to call "him" that, but not in the sense we are led to believe. He is an all omnipotent being that is pure light and pure love. We are supposed to be here, going through these various lives, with their various trials and tribulations, to learn unconditional love. It is said that God, for lack of a better word, is within us all as we were created from Him. Not our physical form, but our essence, our soul, was created from Him.

Furthermore, could it be possible that the angels that we as humans believe to exist to help us are really souls who have stayed on the other side, but have intervened when deemed necessary?
Again, from what I have read, the answer is yes. They are higher souls who supposidly intervene when necessary in order that we may complete our mission. Whatever that may be.

Some may ask then why do babies and young children die? Well, they also had a mission and it was completed. It has been said that maybe a baby dies because the mother or father, or both had to learn something from it. It could be handling a crisis, controlling ones emotion and not comitting suicide again, accepting it instead of blaming themselves or someone else. It could be any countless number of things that one has to learn from the death of a child.

However, this is all theory and no one knows for sure save for those who claim to have died and come back and those that claim to be in touch with the spirit world. It is interesting though to read about it.
 
Jesus Taught Unconditional Love

Pachipro:
I am only looking for honest, intellectual debate, not another war over religion.
I'm cool with this too.

You said: " To believe that this is the only life we will ever have and if we do not accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior we are condemned to hell is beyond me as that is NOT what Jesus taught!" And then you said, "
The Bible was written by humans. These humans said they were quoting Jesus. We do not know for sure that is exactly what Jesus said. " How is it you can claim Jesus says something but then dismiss it as being written by humans when it doesn't jive with how you want it?

It's contradictory things like these that forced me to look elsewhere and within myself for the answers and to question the teachings of the church. I believe that regardless of what is written in the bible, that Jesus and his father would accept any and all persons, regardless of their beliefs, into the kingdom of God, if there is one.
In all kindness, let me say that the only contradictions are those you have created. You have to read any book within it's context. Let me explain more fully now some of the questions you raised:

I. The Economy of the Day was Different
A. God?fs standard for remission of sin was clearly declared—the Hebrew sacrificial system under the Law of Moses. ?gWithout the shedding of blood (blood of sacrificial animals), there is no remission of sin.?h
B. The Kingdom of God (in Old Testament times) broke into the world of nations at a time when national and political entities were viewed as the creation of the gods (little g) and living proof of their power. Thus the Lord?fs triumph over the Canaanites testified to the world that the God (singular, big G) of Israel is the one true and living God, Whose claim on the world is absolute.
II At just the right time, Jesus came and shed His blood for the permanent remission of sins for those who believe on Him.
A. He (Jesus/God) declared at that time that ?gFor God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life. God sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but he that believes not is condemned already.?h
B. If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
III Reading the Bible in CONTEXT.
A. Pulling one or 2 verses out of a book of over a 1000 pages is dishonest to truthful interpretation.
B. God has blinded the eyes of those who will not believe. God knows who will and who won?ft, so it is impossible for some to understand. For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing.
IV. God is the Sovereign Creator and chooses whom He will:
A. God made a covenant with certain ones in the Old Testament to protect and multiply them, for example, Abraham and David, and make His glory manifest through them.
B. He declared His intentions plainly regarding those He would bless and those He would curse. ?gJacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.?h He is the Sovereign Creator and therefore has the RIGHT to ?gmake the rules?h.
C. As Sovereign God, nothing in all creation is hidden from God?fs sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of Him to Whom we must give account.
V. We have the right to choose.
A. Surrounding nations in Old Testament times were witness to the might and glory of God and many individuals became members of the Israelite community. ?gYour people will be my people and your God my God.?h
B. In todays time, it is your option to believe or turn away. If you believe, God extends eternal salvation to you. ?gFor the wages of sin is death, but the Gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.?h This Gift you can accept or reject, as you can any gift. God forces no one to believe in Him.
C. The consequences of disbelief is spiritual death or separation from God eternally. Today is the day of salvation, harden not your hearts.

***
I?fve only briefly made statements here without a great deal of elaboration or explanation. If you sincerely want an honest discussion about these things, I am willing to explain further these things, but I will not have ?ganother war over religion?h as you said either.

Peace.
 
Pararousia, you make some valid points based on your beliefs and I cannot, and will not, argue with you over them. Being raised a Roman Catholic I also was taught and had believed what you have mentioned above until I started exploring "outside the box" so to speak and contradictions arose. Each is entitled to believe what he/she truely believes in his/her heart.

You have expressed your opinion and I have expressed mine and, like the debate over abortion, there is no middle ground. I guess I am cursed in that I can usually see the validity of both sides in any debate.

Thanks for your input. I enjoyed reading them from someone so passionate. :wave:
 
Physically as others mentioned worm food and tree minerals, spiritually or metaphysically or whatever other mumbo jumbo you want to call it who knows maybe our consciousness is self contained and goes out as soon as our electric synapses stop firing in our brains. Maybe our actions are judged and we serve out our punishment in one of the seven Hells or are rewarded in one of the seven Heavens. Maybe we come back as a parasite or as the next Dalai Lama. Or maybe our consciousness is absorbed into the earth and reemerges as a trippy mushroom that helps awaken or enlighten some rainforest Shaman or provide entertainment to some western living pimply faced teenager...
 
Mere oblivion, sans eyes, sans teeth, sans taste, sans everything.

As usual, Shakespeare put it best. ("As You Like It", seven ages of man speech)
 

This thread has been viewed 17681 times.

Back
Top