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Thread: Europe's Oldest Civilization Found

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    Conspiratorialist Pachipro's Avatar
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    Europe's Oldest Civilization Found

    Just thought some may be interested in this article. It seems like much of early European history and origins will now have to be re-written.
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    Regular Member bossel's Avatar
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    I had already read this in the German news. I don't think, to anyone interested in history or archaeology it's that much of a surprise that such a culture existed. Perhaps the level of sophistication & the extent of the civilisation is, but not the existence as such.

    What we shouldn't forget is that in Egypt culture did not start with the pyramids. They were the climax of Egyptian monumental (building) culture, but there were thousands of years that led to this.
    IIRC, only recently they have found a new culture in China, also dating back 5000 years. The more sophisticated archaeology gets, the more ancient cultures will be found.

    What this new find in Europe should bring to an end, though, is the Asian (esp. Chinese) stereotype that Europeans were still living in caves when East Asian culture already bloomed (which was never really supported by the facts, anyway).

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    Regular Member Tim33's Avatar
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    That article really sucks. Hey everyone we have found all these amazing temples and monuments.

    No pictures ????

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    Very interesting. So the rise of European civilizations took place at the same time or earlier than Mesopotamia, Egypt, the Indus valley and China !
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    Have you guys ever heard of that theory that before our earliest civilizations there was another very developed one about 10 or 15 thousand of years before but it somehow dissapeared, and many have referred to it as Atlantis. This one historian argued so because he saw the many different temples around the world such as the pyramids are structured in a way as too meet the stars' alignment as they were seen from the earth 10 thousand of years before the rise of these early civilizations. According to him, the 3 great pyramids are aligned in a similar way as to Orion was 10 thousand of years ago before the Egyptian civilization began to rise. He also showed other structures and how they matched other constellations, and actually many were very very similar. His idea was that this ancient civilization had made some kind of map of the sky as seen from the earth and that somehow these maps had been passed down to different civilizations around the world and they had constructed temples and such things according to those mapps. Quite fascinating actually, but still the theory had many holes.

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    I'm trying to find some photos, but nothing shows yet. Is there a report somewhere with more details ?
    Quote Originally Posted by Duo
    Have you guys ever heard of that theory that before our earliest civilizations there was another very developed one about 10 or 15 thousand of years before but it somehow dissapeared.
    Yes, I have read about it in a book called We Are Not the First from the 1970's. Although somewhat later, there's also a Charles Berlitz book with interesting accounts; for example the Pheonician/Canaanite/Carthagian vessels circumnavigating the African continent, exploring the North Atlantic, and crossing the Atlantic to the Americas leaving at least several inscriptions in Old-Canaanite/Pheonician script in North and South America.
    and many have referred to it as Atlantis.
    As for Atlantis, there are so many theories; but two rationalizing (that is disregarding part of Plato's account to fit it within other knowns) theories are

    1) Crete, which was destroyed in the volcanic erruption of the Santorini (?)
    2) One city in Asia Minor that was destroyed in an earthquake
    This one historian argued so because he saw the many different temples around the world such as the pyramids are structured in a way as too meet the stars' alignment as they were seen from the earth 10 thousand of years before the rise of these early civilizations. According to him, the 3 great pyramids are aligned in a similar way as to Orion was 10 thousand of years ago before the Egyptian civilization began to rise. He also showed other structures and how they matched other constellations, and actually many were very very similar. His idea was that this ancient civilization had made some kind of map of the sky as seen from the earth and that somehow these maps had been passed down to different civilizations around the world and they had constructed temples and such things according to those mapps. Quite fascinating actually, but still the theory had many holes.
    I think you are referring to Graham Hancock. Although some Pyramid clusters show a scaled representation of certain constellations, others have argued that the majority of stellar mapping with pyramids representing the stars are very much out of scale. Still, there is no absolute requirement to be representative to scale, so tracking several stages of astronomical representation might give us interesting result in how the Epyptians peceived the heavenly bodies, and how that was related to the pyramids. It is quite a mystery what the pyramids's original purpose(s) was(were), the obelisks, the sphinx, the May celebration and what-not. There seems indeed much unraveled mysteries that might illuminate on the ancient world and our understanding of it.
    Last edited by lexico; 13-06-05 at 23:46.

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    I agree with Lexico. I wish I could also find some pictures of these findings!

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    Quote Originally Posted by lexico
    I'm trying to find some photos, but nothing shows yet. Is there a report somewhere with more details ?
    I suppose, anyone interested could look into the 1991 book "Deutschland in der Steinzeit" (~"Germany during the Stone Age") by Ernst Probst. It seems, as it often happens when science is in the news, the whole thing has been blown out of proportion by the English newspaper "The Independent" (funnily enough, a lot of German news sources simply took the whole article from the Independent rather than ask the German scientists, even local East German newspapers ). The related culture & the circular structures have been known for quite a while already.
    They probably belong to the neolithic stroke-ornamented ware culture.

    Probst writes that in this German article (only German). Since Probst writes this himself, the information is rather unreliable.
    The Saxonian archaeologists involved in the dig support Probst's position, though. They say that roughly 150 of those structures are known in Europe (Germany, Austria & Slovakia). What the structures were used for, is unknown.

    You can find some low-quality pictures (click on the frame with the 3 pics & a series of 6 pics will appear) of similar finds in this Spiegel article which quotes the Saxonian archaeologists, also only in German.

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    No luck here either...seems no pictures are available
    Hmm..it's quite fascinating ! Makes u wonder if history as we know it even is accurate Wish we could find out more about it !
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    Quote Originally Posted by lexico
    (...)
    As for Atlantis, there are so many theories; but two rationalizing (that is disregarding part of Plato's account to fit it within other knowns) theories are

    1) Crete, which was destroyed in the volcanic erruption of the Santorini (?)
    2) One city in Asia Minor that was destroyed in an earthquake I think you are referring to Graham Hancock. Although some Pyramid clusters show a scaled representation of certain constellations, others have argued that the majority of stellar mapping with pyramids representing the stars are very much out of scale. Still, there is no absolute requirement to be representative to scale, so tracking several stages of astronomical representation might give us interesting result in how the Epyptians peceived the heavenly bodies, and how that was related to the pyramids. It is quite a mystery what the pyramids's original purpose(s) was(were), the obelisks, the sphinx, the May celebration and what-not. There seems indeed much unraveled mysteries that might illuminate on the ancient world and our understanding of it.
    About the theory of Atlantis, there is a scholar called Robert Sarmast, who claims to have proven the existence of Atlantis.

    I have my doubts, however, his arguments are very interesting...Sarmast has certainly written a book, which is sold widely - and contributing to his savings....For me, it is a publicity stunt, but his theory is very interesting and (entertaining)....

    Read more about Sarmast and his book on the discovery of Atlantis here:
    http://www.discoveryofatlantis.com/questions.htm

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    Post Pictures from Dresden 8000

    Here is a text in German, Serbian and English for you, also there are pictures here :

    German: archaeologie.sachsen.de/lmv/print/26_299_DEU_Print.html

    Serbian: vesna.atlantidaforum.com/?p=1014

    English: rense.com/general66/vvi.htm

    All the pictures there are can be seen in the German version. As for the text... it is basically a translation of one text. Please add 3w in front of the liks... i am new to the forum, and it wont let mi post links... stupid safety.... but ok :)

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    <<<<<<< and this isn't a flag of Serbia....

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    I'm wondering if this discovery is just a rumor. You would think that we would have heard something on it by now.

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    Good point, I guess it never happened.

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    The lack of pictures is a bit disturbing ) :

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    I fear that much of the information gived here is a bit wrong....

    the OP talks of most ancient founded cities , but most on the list are not cities , but just ancient settlements of neolitic age.

    It was said to contribute with settlements and cities that are more ancient than Rome ...

    but it is very controversial that affirmation, because then most of the actual named cities placed on the original list should not be even considered, because some if not most of them are as said archeological sites of prehistorical finds, the names are not even the original ones , because those had been lost in ime and so are unknown, finally most of those sites are not continuously inhabited to the present date.

    the same condition considered ( predating Rome) is ambiguos , because either you talk of prehistorical settlements , and you cannot talk of cities ,or you talk of urbanization , in wich case most of the mentioned cities would not be considered valid for the enlisting.

    for example Rome has a canonic founding date of 753bc , but the site is inhabited since neolitic times up to 14000 years Bc so that what makes of Rome? One of the most ancient cities in world? The same can be said for most of the other ancient proper cities of the mediterranean and greek world, their line of hiatory goes in the past way beyond the canonical dates... The same city of Matera in Italy is probably the most ancient inhabited without interruption city in the world since neholitic times, and I mean people still living in the neholitic caves...

    so there is something that really needs a clarification in that thread ... And I only signed to this forum to correct it.

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    Sorry I wronged thead and seems this forum doesnt allow editing.

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